What would you say are the most important cities in history? (while listing no more than 20 or so)
I think you definitely have to include:
Memphis
Thebes
Babylon
Athens
Jerusalem
Alexandria
Rome
Constantinople
Paris
London
Tenochtitlan
New York
No idea what was relevant in China or India.
I know which Memphis you mean, but I laugh at the idea that people might think you mean Memphis Tennessee
>>900897
homeland of the KKK right?
pretty important then kek
>>900792
Istanbul
Rome
London
Paris
Vienna
Moskov
Byzantium
Constantinople
Istanbul
>>900792
Rome
Constantinople
Everything else is irrelevant.
>>900792
>China
Chang'an would be the most relevant. Literally set the standards for what a Chinese- and ergo East Asian- city ought to be. All that Grid patterning in East Asian cities was homage to Chang'an.
Also was THE capital to be of Chinese history. Despite all the capital movements of various dynasties, Chang'an remained the cultural capital until 900's AD during its destruction
The other important E. Asian cities would be Kaifeng (China again) and Kyoto in Japan.
>Tenochtitlan
Remove it NOW. Only one city in the New World deserves to be on that list, and it is Teotihuacan! The city so great that when the Aztecs happened upon it in their nomadic travels, they legitimately thought it had been built by the gods prior to the Creation of the world.
>>900792
Cities whose trading power and cultural influence spanned continents and much of their known world should count, so Venice, Amsterdam, Constantinople, Baghdad, etc.
>>900897
But anon, Americans are not people
Edo (Tokugawa Era); Tokyo (20th century)
Chang'an (Tang Era)
Karakorum (13th century)
Constantinople
Rome
London
Paris
New York
Athens
Jerusalem
>>900897
Walking in Memphis
>>901083
>Jerusalem
>Edo
Literally, meme cities.
>>901083
>Edo (Tokugawa Era); Tokyo (20th century)
Tokyo makes sense, but what did Edo influence besides internal Japanese politics?
>>901083
I would say Kyoto was more important than Edo desu
>>901197
21st century anime
>>901282
I love my Cambodian shadow puppets but that's still Tokyo, not Edo.
>>900792
koszeg hands down
>>901197
It was one of largest city in the world at the time with a high literary rate. The aesthetics produced out of Edo had a profound influence on European art and later served as the intellectual center that birthed Japanese ultra-nationalism.
>>901341
If you mean some early ceramic works in the 16th and 17th century, why wouldn't they be more relevant to Kyoto, or to the Dutch trade colony to its southwest?
Japonisme and Japanese ultra-nationalism is still Tokyo though isn't it?
>>900937
>most relevant
You know that literally nothing could have happened in China from 1000 BC to AD 1600 and the world wouldn't be much different right? Despite almost always being ruled by one or several huge states, China is completely irrelevant when it comes to the world outside of Indochina.
>>901387
What about material goods and innovations like silk, gunpowder, paper, the compass, etc? Or the economic pull the region had that developed the trade routes and cities of Central Asia and Southeast Asia that funneled enough silver to power almost all global trade at the time, eventually drawing European exploration and conquest?
>>901382
I was mainly drawing from the urban culture that developed in cities, primarily Edo. The woodlock prints of the era, for example, greatly influenced the impressionism movement abroad, and Japonisme can be seen decades before the change to Tokyo. The nationalist sentiments also obviously predate the Meiji restoration, though were expanded upon by the new government. I included both its incarnations as one entry anyway.
>>900792
nanjing
chang'an/xi'an
kyoto
delhi
>>900929
kek
>>901387
>what is paper
>what is gunpowder
Hot damn, I'm not even interested in East Asian history but come on now. This has to be bait.
>>900929
The latter two, sure, but what was so important about Byzantium before Constantine got there?
>>901431
It's destiny
Paris
London
Rome
constantinople
Beijing
Babylon
in a regional domain:
Samarkand
nanjing
Kyoto
Delhi
Goa
Venice
Amsterdam
Damas
Baghdad
Angkor
Mexico/tenochtitlan
Cuzco
>>901449
Beijing is the youngest of China's capitals.
London
Constantinople
Thebes
Rome
Babylon
Xi'an (I guess?)
Kyoto??
Probably Dehli
Teotihuacan, Tenochtitlan is close though
[spoiler]Chicago :^)[/spoiler]
Kyoto is irrelevant.
>>901016
OP here, yeah I meant to put Baghdad, it just slipped my mind. Venice and Amsterdam I don't think are on the same level as the others, they're relevant for trade but nos terribly for other things. At that point you'd have to add all sorts of other places, starting with Carthage.
>>901512
venice was relevant for almost a thousand years, its definitely up there
bagdhad's hard to place with how it just ceases to exist in 1258, but it probably deserves the spot
>>901455
yet it still had more influence on the world than the previous capitals, either as the seat of the yuan dynasty (khanbaliq), the capital of the mings or as the capital of the qings(which, assembled together still goes as 800 years).
>>901532
Venice was wealthy and relatively powerful, but it was never the seat of an empire, or the centre of a major cultural movement, or the location of a world-changing event.
>>901635
Dog it was possibly the sixth largest city in the world at one point.
>>901635
which one besides athens deserves spot?
any other classic greek state with its comparable influence was macedon
>muh sparta
>>900792
I'd add Vienna
>>901687
Instead, it was the center of a lot of global trade, currency exchange, warehousing, and craftsmen. It wasn't by chance that the Indian princes that faced the Portuguese in the 16th century not only hired Ottomans but Venetian experts as well, or that the trade agreements moving spices westward in exchange for finished European goods moving eastward ended in Venice (and later Amsterdam).
You're gonna need Rome, Beijing, and Baghdad.
>>901731
>muh sparta
>muh leonidas and brave 300
their only achievement was defending athens
If there was no athens, classic greece would be as relevant today as neo-hittite city states
fuck even corinth managed to have more influence at some time than sparta
Do you think Delhi qualifies? Perhaps some other city on the subcontinent?
So judging from this thread /his/ has Rome and Costantinopole/Byzantium/Istanbul fighting for the title of most important city in history with London in 3rd place
I agree
I vote Rome for 1st place
>>901732
Why Vienna exactly? The capital of the Habsburg empire at the height of its power was Madrid.
>>901787
>with London in 3rd place
said nobody ITT except for you Nigel.
>>901789
Vienna was an important cultural centre for a long time. "capital of an empire" does not automatically make a city itself especially historically important.
>>901774
Sparta was a military powerhouse
They won the Peloponnesian war and beat Athens as well
Rome
Babylon
Constantinople/Byzantium
Moscow
Uruk
London - Paris
Athens
New York
Beijing
Xi'an
Jerusalem
Bagdad
Alexandria
>>901817
but in terms of historical impact, they did much less than Athens in terms of shaping future culture, art and science.
>>901824
Obviously
But they were still important military-wise
Besides they were based as fuck
>Alexander the great conquers Greece
>Spartans want nothing to do with him and just mind their own business
>Romans conquer Greece
>Spartans want nothing to do with them and just mind their own business
I like Sparta
>>901817
Literally btfo by thebes.
Pretty shitty record for state formed around its millitary
>>901833
Not really, especially as it even in empire had rivals in Prague and Budapest.
And compared to Moscow, Paris, London and Berlin far less influental as they had critical roles in forming their naton states
>>901307
But anon, your on a Minoan Shipwrighting imageboard.
>>901860
/co/ pls
>>901845
Well, when you look at literature, expressionism started here and to list another example, which enormous impact Vienna had also on world history, young Hitler was heavily influenced by the many nationalities living in Vienna and by the Antisemitism and the Völkisch Movement there.
>>900942
Texcoco master race
>>900792
>London
>Paris
>Berlin
>Vienna
>Moscow/St Peters
>Istanbul
>Babylon
>Baghdad
>Alexandria
>Rome
>Memphis/Thebes
>Jerusalem
>Nineveh
>Carthage
>Some Chinese city
>Cordoba
>Florence
>Washington DC
>Madrid
>Samarkand/Bukhara
>>901844
I don't think being a regional military power for a period really qualifies a city as one of the most important in history.
>>900942
Little did the Aztecs know that they were going to build a city far greater than Teotihuacan at that time.
>>900792
I would say :
London
Paris
Venice
Constantinople
Istanbul
The city most chinese dynasties had as capital
Rome
>>901915
Fine, no Sparta
Just the faggots from Athens
>>901802
And all have Paris for example.
London most certainly isn't third, it barely even makes the list.
>>901934
Sparta literally had state mandated homosexual pederasty in place.
>>901937
Not all
And London is the only city in those lists along with Rome and Byzantium
From that list, London, New York, and Tenochtitlan aren't really on the same level as the others. Alexandria maybe not either.
>>901160
>be new private
>get assigned to Germany
>sponsor decides to take me to a pub
>get drunk, decide to sing karaoke
>me and this guy who looks like Billy Dee Williams (Lando from star wars) sing probably the greatest cover of Walking in Memphis ever
>next day report for formation, that guy is my boss
>he was too drunk to remember
whew
>>901795
it has been the most important city in the world from around 1750 to around the mid 30s, the influence of Britain on the world from the mid 17th century onwards and of londons influence on britain cannot be overstated
>>901937
no other european city but Rome has had such a influence on the world.
>>902070
It was arguably the most politically relevant city in the world from 1815 to the 1930s.
It was never the most culturally relevant city at any point. It was never the centre or birthplace of any major cultural movement. And it was never the scene of any world-changing event. I still think it should make the list, but it's definitely on the lower end, and most certainly behind not only Rome and Constantinople, but also Athens, Babylon, Baghdad, Jerusalem, and Paris.
>>902074
Paris obviously, and there's quite a gap.
>>902087
it was the birthplace of communism, and the home of parliamentary democracy and the modern democratic movement. the two primary ideologies of the 20th century originated in london.
as for world changing events, what do you mean? world changing as in end of a era like the sack of rome, or the assassination of the archduke?
because world changing decisions were made in london, often quite frequently, and new scientific discoveries were frequently demonstrated in london, but great disasters are limited to a plague and a fire
culturally it was the source and center for most artists, poets, playwrights and novelists in britain,
>>900917
Why the fuck would you write Moskov even in Russian it isn't pronounced that way...
>>902146
How did communism originate in London, and what are the two primary ideologies of the 20th century? Ministerial government did appear in London, so there's that.
Again I'm not saying London is irrelevant, but let's compare with Paris for example. Paris was the politically dominant city in the West for much of the Middle Ages and from the 17th to the early 19th century, and the culturally dominant city for most of the Middle Ages and again from the 17th century until WW2. It was the birthplace or centre of Scholasticism, the early Scientific Revolution, Enlightenment philosophy, Post-Structuralism, Gothic architecture, secular Baroque, Rococo, Impressionism, Realism, Naturalism, Surrealism, Art Nouveau, Art Deco, Expressionism... And it was the setting of the French Revolution, the best example of a world-changing event, which essentially founded the modern world.
OP here, so these I guess we mostly agree on:
Babylon
Athens
Jerusalem
Rome
Constantinople
Baghdad
Paris
London
Chang'an seems to be the place for China, and Kyoto for Japan. Still no idea for India. It's true Tenochtitlan isn't relevant to our history, but I guess then the same applies to Asia.
There also doesn't seem to be much love for Egyptian cities, although I don't know enough about ancient Egyptian history to be able to defend Memphis and Thebes. I thought about Uruk, but not sure how relevant it really is.
>>901895
>Including Washington DC
>not including New York
Washington's only claim to fame is that the capital is there. That's it. The city itself is completely irrelevant.
>>902217
Kyoto is not important. The eras where it was the actual administrative capital were unimportant to world history. Edo/Tokyo is infinitely more valuable given their influence on the current age, be it the development of ultranationalism leading to Japanese involvement in WW2 or its position as an important economic center later into the 20th century and into the current era. The popular culture that developed in Edo in the mid-to-late Tokugawa period was more influential and easier exported outside Japan than the traditional culture tied to Kyoto.
>>902234
Being the capital of the greatest power the world has ever seen must mean something.
For the last 75 years, Washington's political influence has been unmatched.
>>902200
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?106189-Foods-that-the-Amerindians-gave-to-the-world
>>902236
Frankly Japan isn't very important to the West at all, by those standards no Asian cities makes the cut. Florence for example would be infinitely more relevant to the West than Edo. The only possible standard is what was relevant to Asian history.
>>902217
>Jerusalem
The thought of Jerusalem was important, but that's about it.
>>902195
>How did communism originate in London
karl marx in exile wrote the communist manifesto and Capital, the founding documents of the socialist and communist movements.
and the two dominant ideologies of the 20th century were communism and democracy, fascism/national socialism taking third position.
and paris was second to london from 1750 onwards, certainly losing its position in terms of political and scientific centre.
>And it was the setting of the French Revolution, the best example of a world-changing event, which essentially founded the modern world.
the foundation of the modern world was not the french revolution, the french revolution was a reaction to the changing world, it was the french reaction to the modern world, the breaking down of the creaking edifice of the ancien regime unable to resist the changes of the world any longer.
it was reaction not creation, the french were demanding what the british and americans already had.
Rome
Constantinople
Alexandria
Athens/Sparta
Susa
Baghdad
Jerusalem
LONDON
Memphis
New York City
Memphis
Bablyon
Cusco or Teotihuacan
Luoyang
>>902240
Yeah but again, merely being the seat of government does not make it a great city. That has to do with the country as a whole, not the city.
Ask a foreigner if they know anything about Washington DC beyond government and you'll get a blank stare.
>Athens GA
>Memphis TN
Who knew the south was such a cultural epicentre for world history?
>>902287
I'll agree with anon here, NYC holds the distinction of being the most recognizable face of the USA. How many stereotypes, media exposure (books, movies,games), economic strength come out of the city to represent the nation? It's insane.
>All these plebs not knowing Mexico City usted to be the capital of the world commerce and the bridge between Asia and Europe
>>900792
Constantinople-Istanbul
/thread
>>902265
Jerusalem is the founding city of both Judaism and Christianity. That's pretty fucking important.
>>902277
That's some hardcore delusional British education.
>>900917
>Istanbul
>>902335
The city itself is nothing, as that anon said, the idea of it is the only thing that holds value.
By your logic we might as well include every major holy city like Mecca, Ayodha, Gaya etc.
>>902525
Stop quoting Kingdom of Heaven. I'm not talking about Muslims and Jews fighting over Jerusalem thousands of years later, I'm talking about it literally being the birthplace of an entire civilisation.
>>902532
what civilization is that?
please don't say western
>>902536
Eastern (or Magian, or Jewish/Orthodox/Muslim, whatever you want to call it).
>>902543
>spenglerisms
alright sempai if you insist
>tfw naming my son Aššur-bāni-apli
who /Nineveh/ here
>Americas
Tenochtitlan
New York
Rio de Janeiro (for South American representation mostly)
>Europe
London
Paris
Rome
Constantinople
Vienna
St. Petersburg (Was considering moscow, but the Imperial era and the defense of Leningrad give it an edge, hell both really played major parts in history)
>Africa
Alexandria
Cairo/Giza
Memphis
Carthage
>Near East
Baghdad
Jerusalem
Antioch
Persepolis
Mecca
>East Asia
Nanjing
Xi'an
Beijing
Kyoto
Edo/Tokyo
>SouthEast Asia
Angor Wat
Hanoi
Singapore
Bangkok
>>902680
South America has Cuzco
>>900792
Ur
Sur/Tyre
Babylon
Alexandria
Rome
Constantinople
Xian
Damascus
Bagdad
Dadu/Beijing
Cairo
Amsterdam
Vienna
Paris
London
>>902256
Even then Edo is more important than Kyoto.
Akkad
Memphis
Babylon
Ur
Thebes
Athens
Alexandria
Rome
Carthage
Constantinople
Uruk
Hattusa
London
Vienna
Paris
London
St. Petersburg
Tenochtitlan
New York
Obligatory East Asian Irrelevant Shit Hole
>muh animu & samurai
Baghdad
>>901775
Delhi definitely qualifies
>No Novgorod ITT
>>902006
New York was the most important city in the world through the 20th century.
>>903052
Oh shit I didn't mean to put London twice
I s-swear I'm n-not Nigel
>>903052
>muh animu
Are you implying anime isn't important?
Remember what site you're on
>>900792
> No Bagdad
> Most enlightened city in history
Please
>>902335
> le Jerusalem meme
According to the Jews themselves, their religion was founded in Egypt. Likewise, Christianity would come from Bethlehem, not Jerusalem.
>>903062
>All it did was beat back some fanatical Germans then got absorbed by Moscow
Tell me how is it relevant?
OBJECTIVE AND UNDENIABLE LIST:
- Babylon
- Jerusalem
- Athens
- Rome
- Alexandria
- Baghdad
- Paris
- London
- Beijing
- Delhi
- Constantinople
- New York
Prove me wrong. (PROTIP: You can't.)
>No one mentioning Mecca
>>903534
Compared to cities like Cordoba or Baghdad, it's not actually that important. Yes, it's the "center" of Islam, but all the actual cultural, scientific, theological etc. advancements were made elsewhere.
>>901937
Lol read the fucking thread and stop shitposting you whiny child
>>903509
>basing history on Jewish fairy tales
Oh boy.
I think Memphis definitely needs to be in it. It's the first capital of united Egypt, and where all the Old Kingdom pharaohs reigned from, it's the home of Imhotep etc.
>>903519
How exactly are Beijing and Delhi historically relevant? (not saying they're not, wondering)
>>902680
What about India m8?
>>903501
Yeah like you said they moved from city to city, and Marx isn't actually the founder of communism which already existed, but of Marxism.
But this is someone who thinks London was more important than Paris in the times of the French Revolution and Napoleon, or that the French Revolution didn't change the world, so I didn't bother.
>>901320
David? Oliver?
Los Angeles
>>905317
gr8 b8 m8
Why does every list have Baghdad ?
>>903519
Missing
>Nineveh
Capital of Assyrian Empire
>Memphis
Ancient Egypt nigga
>>906470
It was the largest city on earth until it got smashed by the Mongols.
