>Asserting an equivalence between fairies and God
>because, as he says, there is zero evidence for both
How philosophically dumb is Richard Dawkins?
DUDE BELIEVING IN THE GROUND AND PRINCIPLE OF REALITY IS THE SAME AS BELIEVING IN LEPRECHAUNS LMAO
Guy has no idea what fucking planet he's on
>>872898
How do they differ then?
>>872912
Many holly people from Biblical times to present day have claimed to have communion with God? The philosophical belief of the deistic nature of being?
>It's just schizophrenia!
>*tips*
>>872898
>philosophically dumb
He has immense troubles with philosophy, philosophizing, and philosophers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9H2bxHIBfg
>why is it funny?
(the video has the sauces in the description)
Well he's right. There is 0 evidence for both, so both are equally worthless.
>>872929
People worldwide have claimed the existence of the fair folk since ancient times
They can't all be wrong, right?
>>872939
Those fairies are just demoted angels. Dawkins is talking about obviously made up tier fairies.
>>872929
Dude, history is full of supernatural events that aren't accepted by Christianity. How do we reconcile them with the very natural present? We assume they were exaggerations, rumors, or lies.
>>872947
> Made up tier fairies
Just like made up tier gods, am I rite?
>>872953
>We assume
Found your mistake.
>>872953
Because Thor or Odin never existed. Zero evidence. The historical veracity of Jesus is uncontested.
>>872962
>The historical veracity of Jesus is uncontested.
No it isn't.
>>872962
>Because Thor or Odin never existed.
You can't be serious.
>>872957
Presume? What wording would you prefer? Or are you seriously saying that it is more reasonable to assume the past was magical rather than the past being full of easily excitable and superstitious people ignorant of how the world worked?
>>872962
Do you also believe Mohammed spit the Moon?
>>872993
No. There would have been some sort of testimony from all around the world of such a colossal event.
>>872971
It's uncontested by sane people.
Insane internet people don't count.
>>872962
Another idiot is heard from. Is today idiot day?
Odin is based on Nimrod of Babylon, and Thor is based on Tammuz, his son.
>>872898
He's a fool. Everyone who says there is no God is a fool. There are some highly intellectual fools in the world, but in the end, they're just fools.
>>873003
Tell me which of these you believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Muhammad
>>873011
>sane
It's uncontested because it's been grandfathered in by the christian writers of history and the gaping shortcomings in evidence for him have been glossed over. Once this sperging out by factless morons like you ends, Jesus will be reclassified as someone who had a very distant chance of existing.
>>872898
I do believe in fairies. I do, I do.
>>873030
I will read up extensively on them and reply. Keep yourself posted.
>>873031
Christian, Jew, Roman, Greek, etc., etc., etc.
Sorry. You don't count. At all.
>>873019
>Odin is based on Nimrod of Babylon, and Thor is based on Tammuz, his son.
What kind of Zeit Geist idiocy is this? Are you a fucking moron or what?
>>873045
I appreciate your effort, fellow human being.
>>873031
Christ's crucifixion is confirmed by Tacitus.
I wish Christcucks could understand how ridiculous they sound when they claim to not believe in fairies/aliens/psychic abilities/ghosts because "there is no evidence!" but will turn around and admit to believing in - among many things, but most prominently - in a magical pre-existent god-man (who was his own father) that was born from a virgin and proceeded to display his superpowers and abilities and was then crucified but came back to life on the third day after having descended to Hell and freeing the dead there.
There's literally as much evidence for a divine Jesus as there is for Zeus or Amon-Ra or Indra. That is to say, zero.
>>873064
Untrue. Tacitus refers to the followers of a 'Chrestos' causing a riot in Rome. We don't even know if 'Chrestos' refers to Christ, since the aformentioned was a common name assigned to slaves meaning 'good'. Could have been another pseudo-slave revolt.
Also, Tacitus was not a contemporary of Christ.
>>873069
Explain this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Zeitoun
>inb4 le mass hysteria XD
>>873076
Git gud m8
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.
He specifically mentions Christ's crucifixion as the origin of the followers.
>>873069
>What's faith
>>873077
Is that really the best God can do? A bunch of non-descript lights? I know there's a doctored and edited version of the Zeitun picture that was outlined to look like the Virgin Mary, and the originals simply show a strip of light.
Always the same with Catholic/Orthodox miracles. They only occur in already Christian and superstitious areas (instead of occurring somehwere like New York City or London, where they could have infinitely more effect), and they are always 'discreet' (i.e. a few balls of light here, a stain that looks like Jesus over there, some corpse that didn't decompose too badly, etc.) and able to be attributable to chance. Get back at me when we see a miracle where somebody's amputated extremities grow back or someone flies or a statue moves and begins acting in a crowd.
Also, yes, I will say hysteria. Why? Because they're a bunch of sandniggers.
>>873081
In no other facet of life is 'faith' ever expounded as a virtue, except in religion. In all other aspects, humans are encouraged to think for themselves and seek solutions. 'Faith' is a cop-out. "I don't have proof or any way to show you that I'm not lying - you just have to believe!"
Literally cuck-tier. Have fun structuring your life around some legendary kike. In the end, Jesus was merely a man, so different from the mythical one Christianity has constructed that it would be completely valid to say he never existed, that's how different the historical Jesus and the Christ of Christianity is.
>>873053
I know more than you, so I'm the moron?
Are you sure that's how life works, skippy?
>>873069
And you're speaking for all Christians why, again? I don't remember voting for you.
>>873076
History is written about past events! Who knew!
Stay sharp, /his/.
>>873098
>already Christian and superstitious areas
>Cairo, Egypt
>less Christian than New York City or London
Not him, but that is a pretty weak one argument, and I am kind of skeptical of that specific miracle, I'd point more to the miracle of Calanda(spelling?).
>>873080
My bad, seems you are right in one respect. However, Tacitus, simply wrote (in the second century mind you) about the existence of Christians, not Jesus Christ. Secondly, the passage doesn't particularly claim Jesus' crucifixion actually occurred, but by the tone, seems more like he is simply telling what Christians believe.
Third, I don't see how Tacitus writing in the 2nd century about Christians 'proves' that either the crucifixion happened, or that, if it did happen, prove any supernatural/paranormal/divine claims.
>>872929
>calls rational dissenters fedora tippers
>rationally dissents anything non Christian
I know you don't know this, but everyone without their head shoved up there ass has a legitimately hard time not placing a mental disorder on people like you
>>873116
It seems to me more like he describes what happened (he specifically mentions Pontius Pilate), and that "a most mischievous superstition" broke out as a result of the facts reported.
I would say it shows that there was some kind of historical record of the crucifixion for Tacitus to think it happened. I wasn't trying to prove any supernatural claims, but the historicity of Christ.
>>873111
>>873111
The neighborhood were it occurred was a Coptic Christian neighborhood, you fucking idiot born of idiots. Why the fuck did you think there would be a church of St. Mary's in Cairo otherwise, especially at the time period? You damned mong. And implying Muslims aren't superstitious just like you.
>Christians in the West
You do realize most are merely cultural/nominal ones that go to church on Easter and Christmas only, and then never engage in anything more than that?
>>873119
>>rationally dissents anything non Christian
> mental disorder
A mental disorder is seeing the word "Christian" where it's not written. Moreover i just affirmed the legitimacy of a deistic God right in the second sentence. Keep peddling that greentext - ad homined gimmick, i'm sure you'll get tons of upboats on le reddit.
>>873116
You must be one of the insane people from the other thread.
Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
>Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus,
Jesus being crucified by Pilate.
>>873149
Yes, I do, but there were certainly non-Christians in the area, even if just passing through (such as the police who disbelieved, which gives reason for good reason for skepticism of specifics of what was seen).
And yes, I am Eastern Orthodox, so I am aware most Christians in the West aren't actually Christians.
>>872962
How about the Oracle of Delphi? There are many historical records of the oracles, and that they gave prophecies that came directly from Apollo, and which could be interpreted as having come true.
Does this mean that the Greco-Roman pantheon is also real? And if people claim that they were simply drugged up priestesses having hallucinations, could all other religious records not be dismissed as easily, citing schizophrenia or some other personality or memory disorder?
>Inb4 pic related.
>>873164
>Says the pseudo-quintpapist.
>>873165
The bible shows that some demons can give humans information about the near future.
>>872898
Forget divinity, he can't even argue the case for the non-existence of the fey.
>>873175
So it is the word of the Christian against the word of the Hellene?
>>873171
>calling the Pentarchy "quintpapacy"
I have lost all of my keks.
>>873175
How do you know the bible wasn't written by demons. trying to obscure the truth?
>>873188
The oracles were literally getting high from natural gas fumes. Google it.
>>873202
To quote my post above...
>Does this mean that the Greco-Roman pantheon is also real? And if people claim that they were simply drugged up priestesses having hallucinations, could all other religious records not be dismissed as easily, citing schizophrenia or some other personality or memory disorder?
>>873202
And someone eating mushrooms can start seeing burning bushes. Saying their mind got fucked up is a shit defence.
>>873204
>could all other religious records not be dismissed as easily
Sure. Prove they were getting high/had schizophrenia.
>>873159
And with the crucifixion of Christ, all you have is his death. Which does not prove that he was divine. Anyone can die.
There is nothing to suggest his resurrection or his miracles. As it is, most atheists will agree that Christ existed, albeit he was a mere man who was a preacher and was killed due to his heretical rants/insubordination.
Even if Jesus was crucified, you have nothing.
And also, I still am of the belief that Tacitus is merely describing what Christians BELIEVE, not what happened actually. Writing in the second century, Tacitus most likely heard of Pilate from hearsay and rumors concerning the Christians.
>>873202
And God spoke to moses through a burning bush
>>873213
Prove to me the oracles were hallucinating.
All anyone has is supposition and theories. No one has hard proof one way or the other.
>>872898
>How philosophically dumb is Richard Dawkins?
Very. Not because his equivalence is wrong—it's practical and reasonable. But because he, like everyone else, still toys around with mythological and folkloric entities as though they are physical, literal beings to come across somewhere, rather than symbolism in human consciousness.
tl;dr both fairies and God are real, if by fairies and God you mean symbols in our consciousness, and this is self-evident to the keen psychologist.
>>873220
http://www.livescience.com/4277-theory-oracle-delphi-high.html
Moreover there is no evidence they ever predicted anything right.
>>873228
>blah blah blah
>>873234
>http://www.livescience.com/4277-theory-oracle-delphi-high.html
>theory
I asked for proof.
Whether or not God is real, Dawkins is a fucking asshole about his beliefs. Every argument he has against the existence of God is more made to belittle people than to prove himself right.
>>873199
Demons cannot admit that Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh; it's literally the test to see if a spirit is evil or not. Humans too. Unbelievers cannot say that Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh. They operate under the spirit of antichrist, and whether impossible, or forbidden by the father, no evil spirit can so assert.
No demon can, or would, tell you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
And for every demon that exists, there are two angels who did not lose their first estate, and then there is the triune God to deal with. No, this war is over. satan lost.
>>873235
Go away Mr. Dawkins
>>873239
>Here is the theory of evolution
>but i asked for proof of evolution!
>>873244
>No demon can, or would, tell you that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
How do you know? Maybe Christianity as a whole is a demonic plot to steer the faithful from the truth, if demons are lying tricksters as people claim, it could well be.
>>873241
It's about publicity. He is literally trying to deconvert people. His job at Oxford was to disseminate more scientific knowledge among the general populace. His strategy for doing that partly involved attacking what he saw as beliefs holding back scientific literacy. The media cared more about what he was saying about religion than anything else he was doing about increasing scientific literacy so that is what he became known for.
>>873244
And you know this how? The bible? Probably written by demons who want to keep humanity down.
>>873259
He just explained to you: magic prevents them from doing it. What part of that sounds ridiculous to you?
>>873239
The proof is that they experienced the same symptons that anyone would experience locked in a room under those same conditions of carbon monoxide/methane content. And they inhaled that cocktail in the temple.
>>873268
You have a point. Maybe I should convert.
>>873259
This.
Either way, religion is a cancer, but especially Christianity and Islam.
>>873258
Yup, evolution is just a theory, as is creationism, some people choose to believe in one, others choose to believe in another. However, one can be subjected to the rigours of science, and the other can not.
In the case of the Bible v the Oracle, neither can be subjected to scientific examination, therefore no proof can be provided, as all we have are historical records and people's beliefs, therefore you cannot claim with certainty that the oracles were hallucinating, and not channeling the words of Apollo, just as it cannot be claimed with absolute certainty that the Bible is true or not.
What this means is that there is just as much hard proof for the divine inspiration of the oracles as there is for the divine inspiration for the Bible, can you really tell me one is true while the other is not? Not with any shred of proof you cant.
http://www.kyroot.com/
Christcucks get BTFO'd
>>873275
And there are multiple cases in modern record of people believing themselves to be Jesus. They believe it with all their hearts that they are divine. What separates them from the 'real' Jesus?
>>873239
At least it has a more dint of truth than 'Moses smoked magic mushrooms'.
>>873296
For the record I was not the one that claimed that, but building on that claim, how does it? The correlation between the experiences of the oracles and the experiences of people in the same conditions is as close as between people who believe themselves to be Jesus and people who may or may not have actually been Jesus.
Also, I do not believe there is any more or less truth in that theory than in the theory that Moses may have been high on psychedelics, I'm pretty certain you could find someone who claims to have seen things of equally divine nature as the burning bush while high on some concoction of drugs.
>>873288
>he still doesn't get religions are culturally conditioned expressions of a single Truth
>>873315
What makes you so certain you have uncovered truth yet they have not?
>>873295
The real Jesus was crucified 2000 years ago, and rose on the third day.
>>873305
>I'm pretty certain you could find someone who claims to have seen things of equally divine nature as the burning bush while high on some concoction of drugs.
Well, if you go by that Moses was real narrative then Biblicaly, milions of people saw the miracles of God. Israelites literally walked through the dead sea, they couldn't have hallucinated it.
>>872898
>tfw I unironically believe in both
>>873296
There's a link between pharmacological drugs and sorcery; both come from the Greek root "pharmakea". Some drugs likely do open your mind to the things you cannot normally see or experience, but practicing such makes a person evil.
>>873315
Do you think humans would create religions much as they historically did if deities didn't exist?
>>873317
I said the literal opposite of that
>>873319
Yes but the story of his divinity has as much in common with someone claiming to be divine today, or with Muhammed claiming divinity, or even Hong Xiuquan, as the histories and experiences of the oracles do with people high on geothermic fumes.
If the oracles really were just people getting high on fumes, as I said above, what makes you so certain that Jesus wasnt a travelling magician or a rabbi whose compassion people extended to include tales of miracles that never happened? Because there is exactly as much proof for one as for the other.
>>873320
Are there any historical records of a non biblical source that can corroborate that?
Also I believe it was the red sea they claimed to have parted.
>>873109
>past events
Yes, and there's a difference between "last week" or "when I last got to a stone tablet" and fucking 40-80 years after someone died. I swear to god, Christards are beyond any sort of nuance.
>>873349
>Are there any historical records of a non biblical source that can corroborate that?
Are there any historical records that there was a man Moses that saw a burning bush?
>>873349
>Are there any historical records of a non biblical source that can corroborate that?
No, but if you accept the burning bush narrative then acknowledge the rest of the miracles. There is zero evidence for both, anyway.
>>873341
Again, there is a likely link between demons, who are hyperintelligent beings, and hallucinogenic drugs. They both have the same root word "pharmakea" associated with them. It's not an either-or.
And I'm done talking about the historicity of Jesus Christ. The bible makes it abundantly clear, as does every single Jewish, Roman, and Greek historian of the era, in the region, save for Philo.
And people wonder wtf was wrong with Philo.
To all of you people who say there is not enough evidence of Jesus, you will see Him with your own eyes, and it will not go well for you.
>>873305
>Also, I do not believe there is any more or less truth in that theory than in the theory that Moses may have been high on psychedelics, I'm pretty certain you could find someone who claims to have seen things of equally divine nature as the burning bush while high on some concoction of drugs.
>the truthfulness of the utmost certainty that the oracles inhaled hallucinogenic fumes is the same as the claim that moses (whose historical veracity is disputed, btw) took a cocktail of drugs because under some theoretical conditions a mixed cocktail of drugs could theoretically give a drug user the same experience
>>873349
What would exist? Oh, yeah, the Ipuwer papyrus. Oh, yeah, the stone monument Solomon built on the other side. Oh, yeah, Egyptian chariot wheels at the bottom of Alaqaba.
>>873351
History must be written within 40 years! I swear! That's how it's done!
kek
What idiots you unbelievers are.
>>872962
>Because Thor or Odin never existed
holy jej
>>873389
>the bible makes it abundantly clear, as does every single Jewish, Roman, and Greek historian of the era, in the region, save for Philo.
Bullshit. Stop lying. There's only Tacitus and Josephus, outside of the Gospels, and we know one of Josephus' statements was edited by a Christian scribe.
>you will see Him with your own eyes, and it will not go well for you.
Luckily, no one will ever see him, because he is dead and the legend concerning him being God is not real, you idiot Christcuck.
>>872898
Fairies are the spirits of the dead.
God is dead.
Checkmate, christfags.
He's had a debate with Karen Armstrong, right
Anyone can give me a summary of it please?
>>872898
I believe in animism or polytheism, I simply can't believe there is a reason to think of god as a singular entity. So what I believe is closer to fairies than God, which since it is capitalize, I think refers to YHWH.
>>872898
>he doesn't believe in the Aos Si
>he thinks there's no evidence for them
>>873216
What we're discussing here is the historicity of Jesus.
>>873514
But what does it actually mean to say that 'Jesus' existed historically?
We have a person who wasn't born at quite the right time or place as indicated in the bible, who wasn't named 'Jesus', who didn't have a virgin for a mother or a god for a father, who didn't perform any miracles or rise from the dead. But he was crucified. Is that enough to say that this person 'was Jesus'?
Where do you draw the line between 'was a real person' and 'was based on a real person'? How many details can you strip away and still say that the person who actually existed is the same person described in the bible?
>>872939
>>872953
>>873069
Non-believing posters like these are presented the worst apologetic arguments for God, and sadly have a right to laugh in such circumstances.
These are some of the stupid replies posted by believers in this thread:
>>872957
>>872962
If you want to provide a rational basis for God's existence, look up Aquinas' cosmological proof. He had a few of them, but it shouldn't be hard for anyone to locate the right one.
>>873080
This anon is respectable in his apology.
>>872910
/thread
>>872912
God, the general thesis that the universe had a sentient creator, is not at all equivalent to asserting that God is some creature in the universe.
The former is a metaphysical thesis stating that something had to have created the universe.
The latter is saying that some being we can describe in physical terms created the universe.
Dawkins' criticisms however are valid for idolatry, which a good percentage of Christianity is (perhaps which Christianity in general is).
>>873076
You meant Suetonius, not Tacitus. Otherwise, yes, no historian knew of those events from remotely reliable sources but rather Christians.
>>876319
Also the Christian special pleading in this thread is hilarious to watch. "muh Christianity is speshul, not like all those other religions with similar claims and evidence". Fucking kek.
>>872912
There are pictures and direct evidence of fairies.
>>872912
Fairies have a commonly accepted and logically coherent definition.
>>873080
The original document spells it with an e.
Nice try with your Christian adaptation.
>>872898
the equivalence is that they both lack scientific proof. But you already knew that didn't you.
>>872947
>demoted angels
>not made up tier shit
I suppose if the church still held the view that the world was flat, you'd believe that too.
>>876188
>God, the general thesis that the universe had a sentient creator
Isn't this almost exclusively an Abrahemic thing?
>>872910
this
>>873292
Holy fucking shit, that's a lot of reasons. Why didn't this reply gain more traction? 1036, holy fuck...
>>873599
>cosmological proof
.-.
This is the one where he says that because there are good things in the world, there has to be a 'biggest good', and because there are existent things in the world there has to be something 'most existent'.
His method can also prove that there must be a smelliest thing in the universe and, as he says,"This thing we know to be God"
>>873244
>Demons cannot admit that Jesus came down from heaven in the flesh
this is a blatant lie by demons to cover their tracks.
>>872898
>>>873292
>There is no evidence for fairies
You've clearly never been to the west of Ireland.
Fairies are way more real than the fake jew god
>>876820
No anon, that's the ontological 'proof', the cosmological 'proof' is the on based on fallacious special pleading where they claim everything must have a cause therefore God exists and errrrrm he doesn't have a cause.
>>876997
>muh universe can just spontaneously erupt from the vacuum!
>>876997
Properly formed, the premise will say something like 'Everything that begins to exist has a cause'. You should read the modern philosophical literature rather than trust the misrepresentations of pop-atheist sites.
>>877008
It was less than a vacuum, and to be fair
>muh god can just spontaneously erupt out of literally nothing!
The entire premise of a god coming "before" existence presumes that intelligence is more fundamental to reality than the universe itself, which remains to be seen. Quite the contrary, it seems like intelligence is merely the function of a form, a form dictated by physical laws.
>>877035
>spontaneously erupt out of literally nothing!
No. God doesn't need a cause, it's the first mover that is unmoved.
>The entire premise of a god coming "before" existence presumes that intelligence is more fundamental to reality than the universe itself, which remains to be seen. Quite the contrary, it seems like intelligence is merely the function of a form, a form dictated by physical laws.
This is a spurious statement at best. We don't know whether intelligence is material and whether there can't be a transcendental intelligence.
>>877061
I just said it remains to be seen. Your entire premise is dependent on it but there isn't any evidence support dualism and its assertion that consciousness comes from a magical cloud beyond the universe.
It takes a lot of delusion to ignore the significant evidence that most if not all things pertaining to the intelligence is centered in and dependent on the brain. You might as well be claiming that the act of toasting bread transcends the physical laws of the universe despite everyone with a head on their shoulders understanding that toasting bread is a function of a toaster, a very physical form.
