Tell me about pre-Constantine Christian-Jewish relations. Was there always a sense of YOU KILLED MUH SAVIOR in the Christian community, or was there any solidarity between them seeing as they were both peoples oppressed by the Romans?
>>867782
There wasn't really a clean split and there's evidence that the Christian faction that became the RCC aggressively converted or stamped out pretty much anyone who disagreed with them.
>>867782
Christians and Jews had a long and complicated relationship even back then. For a good portion of early Christianity, you first had to convert to Judaism. For much of Roman history before Constantine, neither religions were 'oppressed'. They were tolerated so long as they paid a special tax to the Empire in loo of emperor worship.
>>867958
There was a clear split after Bar Kokhba
>>867782
Yes. The anti-semetism in the early proto-roman church was rampant. Still is. They still haven't figured out that nobody could have killed Jesus without His permission.
It wasn't long after the resurrection that the nation of Israel, and the Temple, were destroyed, and the people scattered all over the earth.
The catholic nations have a habit of murdering Jews on the slightest pretext, so even to this day Jews are wary of Christians and Catholics, as they can't tell us apart.
While the first Christians were almost all former Jews, this obviously changed as Christianity grew.
>>868413
The "Jews killed Jesus" narrative can be traced back to Paul. It's in the fucking Bible.
>>868413
>They still haven't figured out that nobody could have killed Jesus without His permission.
I seriously don't understand how Christians can believe that God chose to let himself die. That's effectively suicide.
>>868426
They did kill Jesus, in their hearts.
They did not kill Jesus, as a matter of practicality. Nor did the Romans. Jesus is God, and cannot be killed by mere human beings.
He came to earth to die. He orchestrated His own death. He prophesied His own death. And He made sure everything happened as it should.
>>868445
Then you're left with nothing but evil and darkness, papist. Idolatry and anti-semetism. Gross error compounded by blasphemy compounded by a multitude of abominations.
>>868468
Deicide, I suppose. Regicide? But yes, that was the plan all along. A sacrificial Lamb of God to pay for the sins of the world.
Don't ask me how He endured it, because I haven't the slightest.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
>For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
It's pretty clear.
>>868519
>Darkness
Actually, the Catholic Church have done a lot of scientific discoveries, while they not always have been to positive to it. The current pope even used to be a chemist.
I am more worried about Rad evangelists stomping out science.
>Antisemetism
Which have been just as spread through Protestant circles as it has been in Catholic ones.
>>868519
Protestant here, anti-semitism is our historical norm. It's only American fucktards who started worshipping Israel for some reason.
>>868387
There basically was no persecution with the exception of a brief stint by Nero, mainly as a scapegoat for his administrative problems, which didn't work and another brief stint under Diocletian which was most likely pushed by Galerius. And that failed even worse than Nero's.
Most frankly didn't give a shit about Christians. They were just another strange Eastern sect. As long as they paid their taxes and tributes they were good. Which they did and kept to themselves for the most part.
Jews on the other hand were trouble makers. The only thing that saved them was just how fucking old they were as a culture. Romans respected that.
>>868523
>But yes, that was the plan all along. A sacrificial Lamb of God to pay for the sins of the world.
But why. Do you think that befits God?
>>868531
Matthew 5
“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Murder begins in the heart. The heart of the Jews was to murder Jesus. They are therefore guilty of murder.
They were powerless to kill Jesus. They had tried many times before, and He just ignored their attempts, and walked right through them.
The sin of murder is there; the actual, practical death of Jesus required His assent; He gave up His spirit, dismissed it as a king dismisses a servant.
So no, the Jews didn't kill Jesus; the Romans didn't kill Jesus; He lay down His life, and then He picked it back up again.
Because He is God.
>>868533
Evolution is darkness. The Big Bang is darkness.
The light of the world is Christ Jesus, and He is dead to the RCC.
>>868537
I think they are doing it to trigger Armageddon, bringing the Jews back to their holy land.
They are pretty much trying to Jew God into offing the world before the date at which it's planned to occur.
>>868539
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_policies_in_the_Roman_Empire#History
>>868537
It isn't, actually. Read something. Anything. Try "The Coming Prince" written mid-18th century England.
>>868546
>Because He is God.
How can a man be God?
>>868543
Why did God die to redeem the world?
Why not ask Him?
>>868553
Try "On the Jews and their lies" by Luther.
>>868556
How can God become a man? By power. By implanting His DNA directly into Mary's egg via the Holy Spirit, without any sexual intercourse at all.
By choice.
>>868559
>Why not ask Him?
Prophethood has ended, and so revelation can't occur.
We already know God didn't die, because this doesn't accord with reason, which is how we learn of God's existence and His attributes.
>>868560
More catholic anti-semetism.
The Hebrews are God's Chosen People, and the god of this world is the devil. Do not wonder why the world hates the Jews.
Wonder why there are any Jews remaining.
And then beg for mercy.
>>868552
>Prior to 64 AD, there is no evidence for action taken by the Roman government against Christians, and after that episode under Nero, no further evidence for anti-Christian policies against Christians until 250 AD.
>In 250 AD, the emperor Decius issued a decree requiring public sacrifice, a formality equivalent to a testimonial of allegiance to the emperor and the established order. There is no evidence that the decree was intended to target Christians but was intended as a form of loyalty oath.
>The persecutions culminated with Diocletian andGaleriusat the end of the third and beginning of the 4th century. Their anti-Christian actions, considered the largest, was to be the last major Roman Pagan action, as Constantine the Great soon came into power and in 313 legalized Christianity.
Yes? Thank you for proving my post.
>>868546
This only implies predestination my friend.
>>868549
>Evolution is darkness. The Big Bang is darkness.
I dunno, Evolution do seem to connect pretty well to all the fossils found through history and big Ban correlates pretty well to the Expanding universe.
>>868569
>By implanting His DNA directly into Mary's egg
I'm not sure if you're trying to troll me, but I'll respond anyway.
Even in the Christian religion, this isn't what they believe. And it's very shameful for you to say God has DNA. He is unlike his Creation.
>>868570
What need of prophecy is there? Is not the end told already?
Who says that God cannot become a human being, and lay down His life?
Who writes rules that God must follow?
>>868577
It has nothing to do with predestination; it has everything to do with the inexorable express will of God. He does what He says He will do, and none gainsay Him.
>>868574
>Luther
>Catholic
I recommend taking your meds, Anglocuck. Face it, no historical Christians aside from Anglo-Americans liked Jews. Doesn't matter if they were Protestants, Catholics or Orthodox.
>>868578
Those fossils were sea creatures living at the bottom of the ocean when the sediment from the Flood settled on them, killing them, and preserving them.
Learn to look at the evidence from more than one viewpoint.
>>868582
>Who says that God cannot become a human being, and lay down His life?
God said it. Even in the Jewish scriptures, this is clear.
>>868581
God created DNA.
God has a begotten Son. That Son is a man.
Men do not come from the eggs of woman, unless that egg has been altered with the chromosome of a man.
Do not say what God cannot do, when you cannot even say who God is.
God is not Ba'al.
>>867782
Pre-Constantine there were multiple types of Christianity. Jesus wasn't always God, sometimes he was a prophet, or an angel, or he was God's adopted son (giving 'son of God' a totally different meaning). In some versions he became divine at certain points in his life: his baptism or death.
And as for Jewish-Christian relationships they got worst over time. Consider that the earlier gospels and writing talk less about the Jews during the trial and it's leaning more towards Pilate being at fault.
As others have said origenally Christianity was seen as Judaism, they couldn't really be anti-semetic because they saw no difference between Jews and themself. Early Christians even practiced circumcision and avoided eating pork.
As Christianity became mainstream it wanted to disavow the Romans of any responability. During the last written Gospel of John Pilate outright says he thinks Jesus is innocent and the Jews outright say "let his blood be upon us". So the books get more anti-semtic over time.
>>868587
Catholic friar, later kicked out of the boy molesting club after he pitched a fit and quit.
>>868594
Show me where it is clear in the bible.
And I'll show you a dozen passages about the Messiah laying down His life for His brothers.
>>868574
>The Hebrews are God's Chosen People
>what is supersessionism
You gotta be shitting me.
>>868597
Only people who know Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, can be Christians. Gnostics were never Christians. Nor were Arians. And Arius had the greatest influence on Constantine of any man.
>>868588
Shouldn't everything below a certain sea level had died if that's the case though, leaving nothing behind below a certain depth?
>>868610
Supersessionism is a modern heresy that claims God breaks His promises, violates His covenants, and is generally untrustworthy.
>>868606
Not him, but Numbers 23:19 obviously.
>>868588
But your viewpoint is absurd. If that were true we would expect only one layer of fossils preserved in a thin layer of rock. Instead we have several layers of different types of fossils, spread over several layers of rock.
>>868616
The world changed. Many of those fossils of sea bottom critters are found on the tops of mountains. The Flood was an ELE, not a rainy month.
>>868619
“God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
Behold, I have received a command to bless;
He has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.
Those verses have nothing to do with the nature of God, but with the character of God.
>>868618
>modern heresy
Yeah if you think that doctrines from 1900 years ago are "modern." Dumb fuck.
>>868624
Those several layers are several layers of mud that dried and hardened over time. The Flood lasted over a year.
See, my worldview has no problem with those layers being smooth, having no holes, being bent at 90 degree angles, having polystrate fossils, or containing the fossils of jellyfish.
Yours does.
>>868632
The heresy does not have roots that deep, and beside, many heresies have roots deeper than that.
You won't ask yourself why there are Jews, when the world hates Jews, and murders Jews disproportionately every century.
You really should start thinking, and then you really should start begging God for mercy.
Jesus is God.
Jesus is a Jew.
>>868637
>Those several layers are several layers of mud that dried and hardened over time.
That's absurd. even if it happened continuously over a year it would only be one narrow rock layer, or several layers one on top of the other. I'm starting to think you've never actually taken a geology class
>>868642
>who is Origen
And it's a completely biblically sound doctrine, in the same line as Paul.
>>868606
Mark 9:32 - But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it.
According to Mark, the disciples were unfamiliar with this concept.
I should note that I'm not trying to belittle Jesus at all. I believe he was a Messenger of God, and will return as the Messiah. However, he was not God nor the son of God.
>>868642
>You won't ask yourself why there are Jews, when the world hates Jews, and murders Jews disproportionately every century.
The same reason there are rats even if we kill rats.
Were I can read/watch more about christian zionists and rapture zombies?
Any good links?
>>868654
You keep thinking top down.
You need to start thinking mudslides. Horizontal mudslides.
Like the ones created in minutes at the eruption of Mt. St. Helen's. Stratified rock, created in months, 30 layers or so.
You need to start thinking. Each layer cannot be the crust of the earth.
>>868664
Origen is a known heretic.
>>868664
At the root of these controversies is Origen’s use of the Bible. Neo-Platonism taught that physical objects acted as symbols of spiritual reality and so contained a double meaning. Likewise, Origen and many other Christians (like Augustine) believed the Scriptures had a double meaning; the spiritual significance, while escaping the notice of most people, could be contemplated by the perfected Christian. But Origen’s interpretations pushed the boundaries of orthodoxy.
He believed, for instance, in the pre-existence of souls and that eventually everyone, including the Devil, would be saved. In addition, he described the Trinity as a hierarchy, not as an equality of Father, Son, and Spirit. Though Origen attacked Gnosticism, in many ways, like the Gnostics, he rejected the goodness of the material creation. His critics have always complained that in many ways this teacher was “blinded by Greek culture.”
>>868677
Source: your anus
I don't think you even knew who Origen was before this thread as you had no idea about 2nd and 3rd century supersessionism.
>>868665
He said He was, and proved it.
You believe a man 600 years later knew more than the eyewitnesses, because he heard from an angel.
Shaitan is an angel.
>>868637
How do your viewpoint explain that we can see light from stars millions of light years away even though the world is just a few thousands of years old?
Or all these fossils from human-like creatures that once wandered the world, such as Homo Neantherthalis?
>>868687
He was anathematized by the Second Council of Constantinople in 553, specifically in its eleventh Canon:
If anyone does not anathematize Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, Apollinarius Nestorius, Eutyches and Origen, as well as their heretical books, and also all other heretics who have already been condemned and anathematized by the holy, catholic and apostolic church and by the four holy synods which have already been mentioned, and also all those who have thought or now think in the same way as the aforesaid heretics and who persist in their error even to death: let him be anathema.
What were your sources, again?
>>868676
But that isnt what we've found, so your idea is irrelevant
>>868692
Day Four, God created each star, named them, all of different glories, and then stretched forth the universe with His hands, away from us in all directions. His hand spans the universe.
What we see is the result of that.
Those stars could all be gone, and I believe that they are gone, or will be very soon.
>>868697
how do you anathematize someone after their dead?
>>868692
There are a lot of weird looking people, and if you took their skeletons and compared them to other people, you'd see a lot of differences.
Nevertheless, we all came from Adam and Eve. Robust DNA is robust.
>>868688
>He said He was, and proved it.
Where?
>because he heard from an angel
Well, yeah. Angels tend to know this stuff.
>Shaitan is an angel.
Iblis is a jinn.
>>868710
You realize if that happened we would see radiation evidence of it.
>>868705
It's exactly what was found at Mt. St. Helen's. Horizontal sedimentary rock created by one volcano erupting.
During the Flood, all of the fountains of the deep opened up, and the world broke apart. Not just one itty bitty little volcano.
Also note that igneous rock radio-metrically dated 3 million years old were created at the eruption of Mt. St. Helen's, in the 1980's.
>>868712
With a shovel.
>>868717
In the bible that the quran says is the word of God, where Jesus is said to have been born of a virgin, and where Jesus ascended alive into heaven.
There are no jinn. Islam has a problem if angels have free will, because then the angel speaking to Mohammad could have lied.
Shaitan is an angel, and lied to Mohammad.
I suggest you read "Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by Nabeel Qureshi. He can answer your questions better than I.
>>868724
>During the Flood, all of the fountains of the deep opened up, and the world broke apart.
there is absolutely no evidence of this. Its a fantasy you use to explain away the fact that actual geology totally disproves your theological assertions.
No one but a few fundamentalist Christians takes your theories seriously
>>868719
We do. CBR.
>>868734
The evidence is in the bible. The evidence is in the earth. The evidence is in the fossil record. The evidence is spread throughout the universe.
>>868733
>In the bible that the quran says is the word of God
No, it doesn't. It says the Scripture revealed to the Messengers are the word of God. It says the Bible is distorted.
>where Jesus is said to have been born of a virgin, and where Jesus ascended alive into heaven.
I already believe in that. You need to brush up on your theology if you think this proves some point.
>Islam has a problem if angels have free will, because then the angel speaking to Mohammad could have lied.
Angels don't have free will.
>>868760
so satan doesn't have free will?
>>868760
Show me a distortion.
I cited the quran said Jesus was born of a virgin, and ascended alive into heaven. I don't need to brush up on your religion.
You need to realize that a man hearing from an angel 600 years later is not a reliable witness.
>>868853
If satan has free will, the angel who spoke to Mohammad could have been satan.
They therefore conclude with no other evidence or reason that angels do not have free will.
They then invent jinn to account for evil spirits, again without any foundation or logic.
>>868880
Paul and Jesus both. Paul from Benjamin iirc, and Jesus of course from Judah, as He is the King.
>>868893
an unknown author writing 50-60 years later with events derived from verses in psalms and misinterpretations of prophecies is not a reliable witness either
>>868516
your faggot god didnt even give you dubs lel
Divine Augustus would give dubs
>>868632
>Supersessionism is a modern heresy that claims God breaks His promises, violates His covenants, and is generally untrustworthy.
It's not God that abandoned the covenant, but the Jews.
The Hebrew Bible is nothing but apostasy after apostasy after apostasy. Just read the book of Judges.
Israel has no priority whatsoever over the Gentiles, but not because of the Epistle to the Hebrews, but because it is said so in Isaiah 19:24 itself.
And it's not like God didn't warn them, he did loud and clear in Leviticus 26:14-39.
Surprising exactly nobody, about half of the Jews don't believe or practice Judaism within the State of Israel, and without.
>>868955
>Surprising exactly nobody, about half of the Jews don't believe or practice Judaism within the State of Israel, and without.
A nation of priests indeed.
>>868913
Good thing that's unknown in Christendom.
>>868955
You keep forgetting the Promise God made to Abraham, that his descendants would occupy Israel forever.
That Promise was not nullified by the Law, nor did it (or could it) disappear, as God walked through the slain animals for both sides of that covenant.
Jesus is a Jew, and anyone not dealing fairly with Jews will have to deal with Jesus. They are, and always will be, the apple of Jesus' eye. And if you've ever met a Jew who became a Christian, they are the strongest Christians on earth.
>all these philosemetic Anglocucks
>>869049
What about the peoples living at Land that God supposedly gave the Jews but aren't Jews, who also own this land?
>>869049
>strongest Christians
There is no Greek or Jew in Christ.
>that his descendants would occupy Israel forever
There is no State of Israel in the world to come.
Then again, they can keep occupying it in the lake of fire.
>>869066
It's God's land, and He will give it to whom He pleases.
>>869087
Even if that means genociding the innocents?
>>869076
lrn2read
A Jew who becomes a Christian can be the strongest Christian on earth; they are steeped in the Law, and in the futile pursuit of the Law, and understand the customs and practices of their former people quite well.
There is a nation of Israel in the world to come, actually. Here are its borders:
Genesis 15
On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
It's huge. It's much bigger than the modern state of Israel.
>>869091
There's nothing innocent about them. They were given 400 years to repent from being the most evil people on the planet.
If Joshua had done what God commanded him to do, there would be no ISIS. No PLO. No Hamas. No Hezbollah.
>>869104
So you are claiming the Arabs are evil by their very race?
>>869106
Jews are.
>>869115
I was clearly talking about the Arabs.
How can you defend people who cut of parts from the sexual organs of their own sons?
>>868426
It's pretty heavy in Gospel of John, dated around 2nd century CE.
>>869130
By saying they are obeying God and entering into a blood covenant to which you are excluded.
Many people here are lost.
You don't even own a compass.
>>869138
So if the Canaanites do to their children to enter contracts with their gods it's despicable, but if the Jews do it it's fair game?
>>869133
You people seem to have some sort of disconnect.
1 John 3:16
By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Jesus lay down His life.
Nobody took it from Him.
John 10:18
No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
P.S. John died in the first century, not the second.
>>869149
Yes, killing your children to appease demons is evil, and circumcising boys on the 8th day to be part of Abraham's covenant with God is good.
Since you are a reprobate, you call good evil, and evil good.
>>868575
>and after that episode under Nero, no further evidence for anti-Christian policies against Christians until 250 AD.
This is outright false. At the very least we have Pliny's letter to Trajan which was around 112 AD..
>>869152
John 18:14 Now Cai'a-phas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one man should die for the people.
John 18:30 They answered and said unto him, if he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee
John 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all
John 18:39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
John 18:40 Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber.
Yes Jesus willingly died, but he didn't kill himself. The Gospel of John clearly portrays the Jews in a negative light, evincing the full development of a christian community at the time of its writing and contrasting their beliefs with Judaism. Perhaps it was written in the process of this community breaking from the formal synagogue.
Thank you for the period correction, I was thinking of another text in that regard.
>>869160
Which asked what should be done about Christians.
Trajan said make sure they pay their taxes If they don't, I dont give a shit do whatever you want about it.
>>869158
Lets be clear. Is it ok today to kill nonjews occupying the land God gave the Jews?
>>869218
Yes, He did.
He could still be there bleeding on the cross if He did not give up His spirit. There is the core concept of Jesus is God that you are completely oblivious to.
>>869279
A reprobate can never be clear on anything. I pity you. I'm also disgusted by what you must have done to dig yourself into a pit this deep.
>>869292
You didnt answer the question
>>869299
I answered the question to my satisfaction.
>>869307
I thought you were here to educate sinners?
So that is a yes?
>>869286
I am saying that the Jews ordered Jesus to be crucified. He did not walk up the hill and crucify himself for no reason. The bible is pretty ambiguous on Pontius Pilate's morality in the event, but he washes his hands of the sin. The Jews are the main antagonist in all the gospels and particularly the trial and this is used to foster antisemitism in the christian community, even in its beginnings. You can take any view you want and call me an idiot, but you would be blinding yourself to the text.
>>869313
Something always bugged me about it though.
The bible tries to say that the Jews somehow forced Pilate to execute Jesus. This really doesn't make sense: the Jews had no political power and were particularly disliked by the Romans. I also heard Pilate was supposed to be a judge that did not care about the feelings of those he ruled. The very idea of a high judge taking orders from a Mob, escpially of people he is supposed to be governing makes no sense.
The bible on one hand wants us to think the crime is blashemy, but than it tells us Jesus was claiming to be a king which could be a political crime. The event also happened right after Jesus created a public disturbance in the temple.
So what's going on? Is it the Jews or the Romans that execute Jesus? Did we even get an accurate representation of what happened at the trial?
>>869507
Well he did have a level of absolute power, but I think that it would have been in his best interest to appease the high jew council or whatever the fuck it was, in order to prevent rioting or whatever they could stir up.
Only 30 years later, Titus burned down Jerusalem. The judean residents were always fiesty as fuck, and often irritable.
There's a reason why he washes his hands clean, to literally wash away his guilt in the affair.
>>867782
>Constantine
Never existed. He's just another lie made up by fundamentalist Christians to slow down the advancements of science.
>>869533
If we assume Jesus was put to death to prevent Riots can we also beleive that maybe Jesus was the instigator? He did destroy a Jewish temple and I imagine Roman authorities would not like a man calling himself 'king'. If he is claiming to be a prophesized messiah (the same one that is supposed to be a military hero that will re-establish Israel) couldn't the Romans have also wanted him dead?
We need to understand that when reading the bible we are not getting the complete truth, we are getting what the writers want us to think is true. For instance, Christianity was originally a Jewish exclusive thing, but once it was decided to spread out to the Roman gentiles, one would want to portray the Roman governer as just. Did the blame get shifted onto the Jews at this point?
>>869312
I used to waste my time with reprobates.
>>869313
The Jews had no power to order the execution. They basically blackmailed Pilate into carrying out an execution he knew to be politically motivated and undeserved. Pilate found no fault in Jesus; neither did the Sanhedrin.
Pilate washed his hands because his wife warned him to have nothing to do with Jesus.
The Jews murdered Jesus in their hearts; they were willing that Jesus die for His beliefs when they were unwilling to die for theirs.
That's just as much murder as sticking a spear into Jesus' heart.
And none of that would have transpired had Jesus not wanted it to.
>>869595
> Roman authorities would not like a man calling himself 'king'
That's what the jews want Pilate to think, but Jesus never called himself the King of the Jews. In John they have a dialogue where Pilate asks Jesus if he is the King of the Jews, to which the latter replies "Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell thee of me?". He explains that his kingdom is not of this world, meaning heaven. Pilate ultimately finds nothing to charge him with, but the Jews still condemn Jesus to death rather than a convicted criminal. Though the roman soldiers ridicule Jesus and place upon him the crown of thorns, ultimately Pilate did not want him to die, and wrote upon his cross "King of the Jews" rather than "Called himself King of the Jews" like the Pharisees wanted.
>>869507
There's one verse you missed. The verse where the Jews told Pilate that if he didn't have Jesus crucified, that their friends in Rome would tell the emperor that Pilate didn't care if a king arose in Judea:
John 19
From then on Pilate sought to release Him, but the Jews cried out, saying, “If you let this Man go, you are not Caesar’s friend. Whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar.”
This is what Jesus told Pilate regarding Pilate's responsibility in the matter:
John 19
11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”
>>869577
Better tell Amazon they're selling fake Roman coins with Constantine on them then.
Or, you could pull your head out of your ass.
Either way.
>>869641
Do you read the bible, like, at all?
John 18
Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”
Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
>>869652
Or, he is just trolling?
>>869659
What is truth?
Did you read my post, like, at all?
He never called himself King of the JEWS. That is a title others gave him. His kingdom is not of this world.
>>869687
?:^=) <Hitler
Literally you.
>>869696
How the fuck did you get that emoji of me?
>>869699
Because you are a protestant and I am a Jesuit and we got a picture of you in onw of our super computers.
>>869645
So by your logic, either the Jews (who delivered Jesus to Pilate) has the greater sin, or Jesus himself sins. Which doesn't make sense because Jesus is God and God cannot sin. So the Jews had sin for killing Jesus.
