![home_book_cvr[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZEl7vpX.jpg "home_book_cvr[1].jpg")
Has the drug war historically been used as way for the ruling class to oppress people of color? Did a Southern conservative coalition influence Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton to impose more draconian drug laws? Were politicians just ignorant of the negative economic and social effects of prohibition such as incentivizing crime? Or is /pol/ right and people of color are just more predisposed to crime on a genetic level? Are white people who get caught up in the War on Drugs just casualties?
>>866708
>Clinton
He meant well but Republicans turned it into something evil like they always do.
Clinton ended the crack epidemic that Re*gan started in order to "Cull" the fact that African Americans were getting ahead.
>>866708
yes. gotta prevent a malthusian dilemma
no. draconian drug laws exist to keep blacks off the streets, south america unstable and firearm sales high
no. the intention was never to reduce drug use
no. there are no meaningful differences in intelligence between the west and the rest, but because of historical circumstances its proved easier to control problem populations than uplift them out of poverty. thanks, lbj!
yes
TNJC is recuperative claptrap by the way
>>866720
>gotta prevent a malthusian dilemma
explain
>>866728
it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with economy
the united states doesnt benefit from a rich and powerful south america that can threaten its hegemony, but globally its also unsustainable for SA and Africa to elevate themselves to western standards of living and consumption without causing a population collapse and widespread conflict over resources in the malthusian sense
therefore it is the imperative of the west to disempower its competitors to keep them from industrializing
>black guy spends like 50 bux on two joints
>Get sent to jail for 20 years mandatory minimum
>costs like 40k to feed and house a prisoner annually
why is this allowed? Just from a fiscal view its retarded
>>866736
>Believing in meme theories.
oh i am laffin
>>866738
and fiscally it would also be much more gainful to apply a scandinavian model and rehabilitate them convicts! now think, why isnt that method being applied now?
![ed5c73fa76de3730a23c132a1fb3aa19[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h7hSwnO.jpg "ed5c73fa76de3730a23c132a1fb3aa19[2].jpg")
>>866736
>believing in malthusianism
>>866747
Idk. But he shouldnt have gone to prison in the first place. A mere fine should have sufficed or a few days in the clink. Murderers and rapists can get the same sentences. Mandatory minimums are retarded.
>>866757
yet, if it's such a good idea, why isn't it being applied? who does the current system benefit?
>>866762
Politicians who want to look tough on crime without putting in a real effort?
>>866768
at the consequence of being a massive drain on the taxpayers, with laughable incompetence in mathematics and the racist character of a KKK grand wizard? do you think anyone who learns law and trains in statistics thinks that a victimless crime is worth a lifetime of imprisonment for its own sake? surely there must be something else going on here
>>866772
I think the current system benefits a group of racist people with hegemonic political power who dont want to share or compete with resources with people of color for jobs such as jobs, government benefits, housing, etc. You cant just kill them so you find other ways of getting rid of them from the public.
>>866796
shit. I fucked that sentence up.
>>866796
>dont want to share or compete with resources with people of color
>pay exorbitant taxes to house, feed, clothe, transport and guard them
something doesn't add up here
>>866738
Retarded evangelicals who actually believe smoking a joint is akin to murdering a child flamed on by an uncompromising Republican mindset and retarded programs such as "Just say no."
>>866846
Also, the private prison industry and racism.
I've the heard the meme of private prisons and convicts being used as basically slave labour in the US.
How true is it?
>>866846
>Retarded evangelicals
which is why prisons in liberal states like NY and Cali are so much better, right?
>>866880
What's something Vermont, Maine, Minnesota and Montana all have in common?
>>866738
>Be friends with the dudes who own prisons
>Prisons are profitable in the US (or so i've heard)
>You scratch my back I'll scratch yours
?
>>866880
Doesn't matter. The needlessly harsh penalties for committing minor infractions are the result of the Moral Majority, and even liberal states have a hard time liberalising prisons when up against strong resistance from conservatives (and vested prison interests.)
>>866878
Prison labor builds a lot of shitty school desks but the real money in Private Prison is government contracts.
>>866878
I don't think their labour is used usefully BUT running a private prison is similar to having slaves in the sense that you limit someones freedoms severely, pay to house and feed them and this earns you money.
>>866899
Does the prison and the county hosting it make money off the enterprise? If so I don't see the problem, its just doing the business of a public prison more efficienctly
>>866893
So sociopaths out to make $$$?
Obviously a lot of resources would be wasted in terms of food, medicine etc over a 20 year period. Not to mention getting out of prison and knowing more criminal shit, cycle repeats, more $$$?
>>866909
No the county pays a private guy to run the prrison. Your tax dollar go straight out him. Plus they get even more corrupt where the state pays food or water bills etc
>>866921
>taxpayers letting themselves get fleeced
they have it coming desu, play stupid games win stupid prizes
>>866920
>Think up this plan
>Overhype the dangers of weed to the public
>Get brownie points and $$$ for doing something about it
>Exacerbate the problem with the war on drugs (Portuguese system treating drugs as a medical not criminal issue seems to work)
>Release crime stats to induce more drug fear
>Be seen to do something about it, make more money exacerbate problem again
>Repeat till you're dead and no longer care
Is this you America?
>>866952
I just came up with this idea >>866945
and meant it irregardless of race.
>>866952
Drug War gud idea. Politicians didnt do nuffin. They good boy who do everything right for us
>>866736
>Malthusianism
>>866994
t. Pat Robertson
>>866880
To be honest, leaving aside that weed in Cali isn't illegal really, having a liberal state isn't going to help. SJW's don't really give a shit about prisons unless they're using it as a stick to beat white people with. Mainstream liberals don't care at all. Leftist/Socialists only care about muh exploited labour and nobody listens to them anyway because there are like three in America.
Conservative authoritarians love the "tough on crime" meme, so they're the ones who are dedicated. The only people on the liberal side who actually want to make things better are the "DUDE WEED LMAO"'s who have fuck all political clout and only care as far as marijuana legislation is concerned.
oh and the blacks, but nobody cares what they think either.
>>866736
I agree.
Only thing though is when you say, population collapse do you mean in latam or in the US?
>>867028
I didnt elaborate because of the >malthusianism posts
logically if you have a group of "haves" and a group of "have-nots" there will be resentment between them, especially when the have-nots realize they're fresh out of neodymium or whatever and the existing resources on the planet straight up cannot go around for everyone to live like a "have"
the population collapse depends on where this is localized, but would reasonably follow the inevitable conflict born from resentment
>>866802
People don't think on a collective level, or even rationally. People who are well-off can actually care less about the ration of their actions and values, since they can afford it. So long as it doesn't affect them directly (i.e. if you own a business and do something that's bad for PR, people stop buying your products, leading to a decrease in sales), they're fine with whatever comes after. Common folk shoulder the majority of the taxes anyway, don't they?
>>867038
>Common folk shoulder the majority of the taxes anyway, don't they?
No, actually. The lion's share of tax revenue comes from the top 1% of earners.
>>866962
Irregardless is a double negative and doesn't mean anything. Please don't give the old grouches of /his/ an excuse to call you an illiterate ape.
>>867054
>>867044
Thanks, I didn't know that. But doesn't that go to show that the old men with cash money are happy paying whatever they have to to exercise control upon the unwilling? In which case power is the thing that gets them going and not makemonies.exe.
>>867054
Dude, everyone knows what he was trying to say. You don't have to be pompous about it.
Black leaders supported the war on drugs. They were freaked out by the effect of drugs on their community.
>>866736
The US does benefit from a rich South America. Economically, it is more profitable to trade with rich countries.
>>867054
I meant to say irrespective, but irregardless still works.
>>867084
Doesn't mean jack shit.
Black leaders were no smarter than the average white suburban American.
>>867107
Not him, but if it is true it do disprove that it was just a racist invention by whites.
>>867082
You also aren't able to vote after since your considered a felon. And you lose eligibility for financial aid. Not to mention it makes it almost impossible to find a job. Your basically second, no a third class citizen because of it. i dont mind that for actual felons like rapists, killers, pedos ,etc. but for something stupid like a drug charge for personal consumption is draconian.
>>867119
>Muh false dichotomy
>>867119
>implying "old white men" and "jews" dont refer to the exact same people
I'm going to list the movers and shakers in popular conspiracy theories:
reptiles
archons
jesuits
masons
the judeo-bolsheviks
the illuminati
banking cartels
the zionists
racist old white men
transnational corporations
the bilderberg group
Can you tell me what links them all together?
>>867119
Don't you mean /pol/ swaps people with power (irrespective of race) for jews?
>>867146
>Don't attribute all knowing foresight to politicians, they're just as dumb as your average joe.
But not doing anything once you have hindsight, just for the sake of keeping votes/power/etc is not a good thing anon.
>>866708
>Has the drug war historically been used as way for the ruling class to oppress people of color?
Any law can be used to oppress people, to the extent that the law is enforced hard enough.
It is undeniable that drug laws disproportionately hits black Americans way more than others, but this isn't simply because the cops are racist. It's also because black Americans live in a cultural climate where it is socially acceptable to shoot each other in the street to prove allegiance, and to sell spiked heroin to your neighbor.
>>867154
>Black culture
B-b-but muh white shooters!
>>867150
It takes time to change things and the 'war on drugs' has a lot more parameters to it than a quick and simple policy change.
>inb4 we make all drugs legal n sheeit
Yeah that's easier said than done, it isn't just the USA that has declared most drugs illegal and even if every US state unanimously agreed to legalize that doesn't mean everywhere else, including SA, would stop policing drug crimes. A lot of countries are even more anti-drug than America, so get off the rhetoric of America bashing.
P.S. I am not American
>>867158
what about muh white shooters? the majority of america (~70%) is white, and the majority of americans own guns
white shooters are an anomaly, not a predictable feature of any white neighborhood with more than 10 residents like black shooters
>>867158
50% of rapes are committed by Black men in America m8, even though Black people are only 12% of the population. So yes, it has to either be their culture or social climate, or you are admitting that it is something biological, so that would mean that you're the racist.
>>867167
What about treating it as a medical issue rather than a criminal issue like Portugal does?
P.S. not American or Portuguese
>>867172
That's also easier said than done. Some states in the USA have already started doing that and *gasp* it was rich old white men who have instituted these changes. However not every state will do that and America is, contrary to popular belief, much farther ahead in the rehabilitation scheme than a lot of countries.
>>867138
Aliens.
>>867179
REEEEEEEEEEE
HUMIES GET OUT
>>867178
>and *gasp* it was rich old white men
Yea I should have made it clear that I don't think all people in positions of power are corrupt, or don't at least have good intentions, just that some are. Not sure about politicians, but I've read that business executives are much more likely to be psychopathic than the general population.
>>867184
My sides
>>867187
I am stating that in reference to the OP who thinks the war on drugs is some plot by the white supremacist males to keep blacks in poverty, not you, unless you're the OP. You're points, or at least the last few posts, have been pretty reasonable.
>>866708
URBAN MIDDLE CLASS BIAS DETECTED
As someone that lives in the south I can tell you blacks arent the only ones suffering due to this shit, dont be an sjw that likes to forget that there are far more dirt poor whites than blacks. And in our small towns the cops & judges have nothing better to do then throw the whole fucking book at us for miniscule amounts of weed.
>>867194
That's true but there are so many bad laws and different states/groups involved in the war on drugs that if it were a conspiracy, it would be incredibly unlikely.
>>867197
Yea I'm not OP, the thread has disregarded OP's angle, we're not talking about anything race based.
>>867205
I am glad to hear that, I am sick of debating the leftist version of skinheads on this board.
>>867205
Also, I would like to state that although I am skeptical of Portugal's model of drug control I do think it's better than the war on drugs.
What I don't like about Portugal's method is that they've decriminalized most drugs instead of making them legal. I would rather they all be legal and highly discouraged/taxed into the ground since that's worked so well in regards to lower rates of smokers.
>>867138
One time I was on a rap music forum and they had a thread on producers and record company execs and it dawned on me that blacks usually confuse jews with whites constantly. If /pol/ would embrace and "educate" them theyd have a hella lot more allies but theyll never figure this out.
Thankfully.
>>867142
>>867138
>>867134
Alas I finally see
/pol/ and /his/ are one and the same, tackling the same thing from different perspectives!
Shame I don't belong in either.
>>867219
Do you mean making 'moderate drugs' like MDMA etc legal, because I can see issues with making all drugs completely legal, such as someone wanting to an hero being able to save up and buy a fuck load of heroin or something.
>>867238
If someone is rather far down the line of wanting to kill themselves, couldn't they just as easily, if not more easily, do it another way? Also, the drugs being illegal doesn't stop people from using them to off themselves, it just makes them a criminal while they're doing it.
>>867219
If you do that the cartels just switch from selling illegal drugs to selling legal drugs illegally.
>make them expensive
>as opposed to cigs there is already infrastructure devoted to manufacturing, transporting and selling these illegally
>keep doing it just now your gimmick is yours are cheap and the legit ones are expensive
>>867142
Are you implying that every person in a position of power should be treated as an abstract entity called "power" and their ethnicity and particular qualities never acknowledged? Not even /pol/
>>867235
>not realizing you're on the Internet and /pol/acks are always going to infiltrate
Just ignore them and sage their threads.
>>867253
True, perhaps the method is to keep them cheap and legal but discouraged in other ways then.
>>867259
As someone else ITT I'm sick of debating left-wing skinheads here. Stop making posts like this and accept that this is fucking 4chan and /his/ is a board in itself, not a battleground in your ongoing personal war with Internet reactionaries and Neo-Nazis. It will make literally everybody happier.
>>867259
Yes, good goy, just ignore them... Until it's too late!
>tfw actually jewish
>>867265
As someone else ITT said* I'm sick of debating
>>867255
No, obviously many factors will be interacting, but generalising a whole race is absurd (I do get that plenty of it is just memes here)
>>867265
I don't care if it will make YOU happier, don't proclaim to speak for everyone else, faggot.
People need to start battling ideas instead of trying to impress identities on people through computer screens and then attacking that.
>>867268
aren't I just the most subversive.
>>867251
One of the problems with the drug war is economics. During prohibition illegal producers focused on making harder, more dangerous liquors because it was easier to trasnport and less costly. Same thing can be said with drugs. Heroin is more potent, conceable, and transportable than eqaul amounts of say, weed. Therefore it created a perverse incentive to push harder and harder drugs.
>>867292
Good point, mate.
>>867307
I am not denying that most people actually battle ideas but those who aren't and base their arguments on character assassinations and ad homs need to change their tune if they're to be taken seriously.
I am conservative, a tory to be exact.
![YUmEs0D[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5GKKmcr.jpg "YUmEs0D[1].jpg")
Just thought I'd drop into this thread and let you all know if you didn't, that the overwhelming majority of homicides in the US are drug/gang related
Ending the war on drugs would put the cartels in Mexico and the African American gangs in US cities out of business
>>866889
Being either retirement states (seaboard) or having a low population density. (Great Lakes borders)
>>867322
Tbh, I come to /his/ to get away from /pol/. I say that as a /pol/ poster with numerous Trump and Merchant memes saved on my computer. I just wish people would follow the sticky and try to raise their level of discourse above the purely political and into the properly theoretical more often, on every side. This could be a better board if we had fewer people praising Stalin and fewer people raising Hitler.
>>867337
Agreed. Also, I am a fellow /pol/ack
>>867337
Agreed and I to am another /pol/ack.
>>867337
>DUDE LIBERALISM LMAO
Why are niggers so fucking whiny? Stop committing 75% of all crime, stop blaming others for your problems, and fix your fucking culture. Jesus Christ.
>>867262
Is being drunk encouraged by any functioning society? No? Then why would being high as a kite be encouraged?
Modern culture and inter-personal relations will most likely keep people in check and accomplish the goals you're going for anyway, regardless of the lack or presence of governmental intervention. Freedom-loving bureaucratic fascists like you need not choke people to death when trying to "protect them from themselves"; you'll just earn yourself animosity you don't need and end up looking stupid trying to babysit sensible, responsible adults.
Question: What drugs have you ever done, if any?
>>867054
That's not how languages work.
>>866708
The law that passed under Reagan and Clinton were done with the best intentions, because who can really say that they're not going to be hard on crime, but they fucked up.
The one passed under Reagan was done in a reaction to the death of some rising basketball star but in the law you only need one gram of crack.
Clinton's law again was done with the best intentions and it was done to look tough on crime. However years later all it has done is put a fuck load of people in prison for the crime of possession. Which really is a minor offence.
Honestly from a fiscal standpoint it's stupid because you put these people into prison for very minor offences for years. What's more sickening IMO is that prisons are being run for profit.
Also
>are whites just casualties on the war on drugs
Where have you been for heroin? White people use narcotics just as much as African Americans. The only difference is that with African Americans it's a moral failing and they should be locked up and with white people it's a tragedy and a result of society.
It was just a way to get criminals arrested once the Warren Court made it impossible to arrest criminals the conventional way.
>>866713
>whites leave the city
muh white flight
>whites enter the city
muh gentrification
>>867253
>If you do that the cartels just switch from selling illegal drugs to selling legal drugs illegally.
What's the problem with that? The issue with cartels is that they're run by bloodthirsty lunatics that chop people up and leave their severed limbs lying in the street as a warning to their competition. You don't see Budweiser abducting Guinness employees so they can flay them alive.
Besides, it's unlikely that tattooed speed freaks that run drugs would suddenly become legit businessmen. They would be replaced by major pharmaceutical companies.
>>870679
Are you retarded?
Reread what I posted: if you make drugs legal and expensive there will still be a marker for illegally produced legal drugs, because they'd be fucking CHEAP, and where there is a demand... Someone will rise to supply it, if they're smart. Now tell me why the cartels would throw their infrastructure away with an opportunity to keep profiting, unless they are completely brainless?
Just fucking stop reaching
>>870710
The market for illegal tobacco and alcohol is minuscule (unless you count stuff sold to minors). Sure, some people would buy stuff from illegal sources, but they would be vastly outnumbered by the people that choose to purchase from the legitimate channels.
Think about it. If you were going to a rave or some shit and you had a choice between buying the Pfizer manufactured MDMA with a guaranteed purity level or the illegal stuff of unknown quality produced in an unknown laboratory by unknown people with unknown qualifications, which would you choose? Even if you would save some cash on the illegal option, most people would choose the former.
As long as there's demand there will be supply. Incarcerating traffickers and producers just moves production somewhere else. The war on drugs is an exercise of control both domestically and abroad. Drug trafficking is an easy way to make money and has entrenched itself in the culture of poor minorities.
>>866708
I'm actually writing a paper about this topic but I'm looking at the Rockefeller laws that were implemented in New York.
don't ever go for the genetic predisposition bullshit. not only is it racist but its scientifically unfounded. punitive policy is as much a reflection of public sentiment as it is political rhetoric. to really understand why these policies were enacted you have to look at the time period that preceded it and what social factors motivated the shift from rehabilitation to criminilization.
>>866708
>The New Jim Crow
I wonder what do old niggers think of stuff like this.
What do they think about their legit struggles being compared to actual criminals being put in jail?
>>870710
In some instances, if you raise prices you increase demand because people believe your product to be of better quality, even if it isn't. Cheapness is associated with poor quality.
People might buy artisan hipster LSD but they won't but ultra cheap bootleg MDMA off of Rodrigo in a dodgy car park if they can buy better quality MDMA from the chemists. For twice the price.
>>872298
>get caught with a little weed
>get thrown into a hell pit filled with actual criminals: murderers, rapists, gangsters
>black communities get targeted by police more than whites so they get caught in the dragnet disproportionately.
The important question in this debate is whether the punishment fits the crime? I don't think it does and public opinion seems to be moving in that direction.
>>874015
>The important question in this debate is whether the punishment fits the crime?
The important question here is: What don't you understand about the definition of "criminal?" Law and justice aren't the same thing. When the laws change with public opinion, iff they do, these people won't be criminals.
There seems to be a literal mental block on some people that prevents them from understanding this. I'm not saying the law shouldn't be changed, I'm saying that when you knowingly break the law, you take your fate into your own hands as much as you do when you go skydiving.
>inb4 you call me autistic, racist, or evil
You're simply incorrect. You don't understand the definitions of the words involved and you're incensed about the fact that lawbreakers are subject to punishment. This is absurd.
>>874015
Its the law, creep.
>>866708
>Has the drug war historically been used as way for the ruling class to oppress people of color?
Yep
https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/
'At the time, I was writing a book about the politics of drug prohibition. I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”'
And now that their children are using drugs whites want a gentler war on drugs
www.nytimes.com/2015/10/31/us/heroin-war-on-drugs-parents.html
Drug possession is easy to prove, and prosecutors frequently use it to jail criminals they might otherwise have more difficulty to convict.
In any case, you have to be extremely infantile and lacking in real world experience to cry about incarceration rates... if American jails were less full, the crime rate would be so much higher you would be afraid to go outside (more than you already are).
>>874539
blame john wilkes booth, mass deportation to liberia was lincolns plan from the start
>>874531
This post just reeks of paranoia
>>874694
>ignoring the fact that crime rates have plummeted mysteriously as incarceration rate grows
>>874776
>he didn't notice that there was a sudden crime drop a generation after Roe v. Wade and the banning of leaded gasoline
I think it's actually abortion, reduced lead poisoning, and increased incarceration in that order, to be honest.
Sure, increasing the sentences for violent criminals is fine, but mandatory minimum sentences for narcotics do nothing to improve public safety.
>>874499
This was a good post. Thanks.
>>874776
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95580
>>874539
>not knowing the history of why black people riot like the 1965 Watts Riots or the 1992 Rodney King riots.
B-but it's a post-racial America! Pro-tip: It isn't.
>>866708
No. Nobody is forcing them to do drugs
>>874499
I don't think suburban middle class whites have much of a connection with elite polititicians. Remove your Tumblr tinfoil
>>875223
>le tumblr boogeyman
>>875245
tbqh, get over it. Whites are the majority of this country, still. Your fundamental inability to understand what drives legal processes in this country (i.e., you seem to seriously believe that the smallest segments of a democracy deserve the most attention from the state out of every group, and fail to perceive whites acting in their own self-interest and exercising their right to have their views turned into law, as citizens in a democracy (which blacks have, too), as anything other than the white man keeping blacky down) is the real problem, not middle-class whites.
>>875300
Heroin is mostly a white working and middle class problem. Should we just mass incarcerate them as well?
>>875345
>mass
The same criteria should be applied to every individual charged for heroin distribution or possession. For whomever heroin is a problem, it's equally a problem. I don't even know what you're trying to imply with this issue.
I really take issue with this notion of "mass incarceration" as liberals bandy it around. Which mass are we talking about? Are the police literally rounding up entire neighborhoods and taking them to prison?
Criminals should be at least tried, and perhaps incarcerated or deported, en masse. People have rights to trials by jury, though, so far as they're citizens.
Have laws against rape, murder, and burglary been used to oppress blacks too? After all, 6% of the population commits almost half of all violent crime.
>>875245
>Le evil whitey boogeyman
>>875360
That's exactly why whites are i jail in exact proportion.
Dumbass. At least retards like you don't vote beyond 30% rates.
>>870728
And who have a name for the people who chose the other.
Darwin award winners.
>>866708
The reason so many people of color have drug offenses on their record is because they carry drugs on them at all times, even when they are getting caught breaking other laws.
>>874933
>>875907
>in exact proportion
To what?
>>866738
>from a fiscal view its retarded
HELL NO IT AIN'T
I OWN STOCK IN PRISON COMPANIES
GET ON THE TRAIN TO MONEYVILLE
PUT THEM STONERS IN JAIL AND GIBT ME TEH MONEIS PLZ THX BYE
>Be an allegedly 'free' country
>try to tell people what to put in their bodies
Oh look, yet another fucking MURICA FAIL.
This thread is fucking racist to every American who isn't black who has been incarcerated for drugs.
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING
/his/ don't care about white, yellow or red people.
>Do something illegal
>Get caught
>M-muh oppression
>>876792
what if I think cannibalism should be illegal
>>874776
crime rates have plummeted all over the Western world, not just the US.
How hard is it to just NOT do drugs?
>>877122
If you're not a total pussy, then it's pretty hard bro
>>872116
>social factors motivated the shift from rehabilitation to criminilization
Got any examples?
>>870710
Cartel infrastructure would have to greatly downsize, and there would be far less violence once it's no longer possible to control the drug trade with Uncle Sam being undisputed king.
>>874148
>when you knowingly break the law, you take your fate into your own hands as much as you do when you go skydiving.
The difference is, unless you're some kind of adrenaline junkie, you usually don't have a disease or dangerous social pressures making you seek out skydiving instructors peddling their risky ventures on shady corners of an airport tarmac.
>>877490
How is that relevant to the definition of "criminal?" This is cheap sentimentalism.
>>877518
Criminals driven into illegal activity are different from criminals who actively seek out illegal activity.
>>877525
In what sense? Morally? Maybe. This isn't a moral matter, this is a matter of you misunderstanding basic legal concepts. Criminals are criminals. I don't think that coming from a poor background makes a rapist less reprehensible.
>>876945
>what if I think cannibalism should be illegal
It should be, with the consent of the flesh owner.
>>866708
>Has the drug war historically been used as way for the ruling class to oppress people of color?
Yes, the obvious proof of this is that now that White people are becoming addicted to oxycontin and heroin in greater numbers than non-White people, they are crying about 'muh unfair sentencing' and 'muh leniency' and lawmakers are actually paying attention.
>>877753
On what grounds?
>>867171
>50% of rapes are committed by Black men in America
[citation needed]
Why do statistics like this always end in such a clean and easy to remember number?
>>877828
Not that anon
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf
Here's a table for you
i think it has more to do with blacks being bad at selling drugs.
t. Jimmy McNulty
>>877939
this might be it, who ever heard of a Jamal Capone?
Maybe blacks just aren't that good at crime.
>>866708
It wasn't a coalition, it was just that there were lots of politically-motivated racist poor white people who were racist because:
) racism gives them more opportunities (even at the expense of others)
) attempts to help out poor black people were the most damaging to poor white people who never really supported it in the first place, so they felt shafted & that caused them to further resent black people and vote for things that would disadvantage them
The way I see it the War on Drugs is an extremely effective tool of oppression and disenfranchisement but it is also almost completely accidental. Call me cynical but if the goal of the government was to create an oppressive system I don't think they could have crafted something so successful intentionally.
The War on Drugs was a misguided and idealistic program instituted during a time of moral panic in America. The outcome is an obliteration of the lower classes as their youth get sent to prison in droves for taking certain substances into their bodies
>>878822
I agree with you that it was not designed to be evil, but I think 'completely accidental' is a stretch. I think lack of empathy for non-White persons and the poor subconsciously influenced voters and those in power to so readily approve such harsh sentencing guidelines, which is evident in the disparity between crack sentencing laws and cocaine sentencing laws.
>>878822
>muh certain substances
Literally just say no asshole.
I did and lo and behold I didn't go to prison.
If these people are so stupid they can't figure out that breaking the law to do drugs has consequences, why should we assume they wouldn't wind up in jail anyway for petty theft and burglary to buy Jordans, gold chains and malt liquor?
>>878842
Yeah, I agree with you. Totally accidental was a stretch, I think I was using hyperbole to say that there isn't some grand white supremacist conspiracy that crafted it specifically to keep people down.
For decades Americans also didn't give a fuck about the poor and figured that the law is the law and the law is right. So that didn't help either in how calcified this system became
>>878867
Of course people should follow the law if they want to stay out of jail, but if you look at things at a population level the state can basically decide how many people to send to jail for how long based on rates of certain behaviors, and deciding to send so many people to jail for using pot seems, frankly, stupid.
>>866708
Free ross
>>878879
> deciding to send so many people to jail for using pot seems, frankly, stupid.
That's your opinion.
I disagree. I don't care if it's "just a plant", it's also a perfect filter for social deviants with poor impulse control.
So fuck 'em. Let them rot in prison if they're too stupid to figure out that "fucking plants" aren't worth risking their future over.
>>878867
Bock market drugs specifically target poor populations. For many it's the easiest path to any kind of decent cash flow. Mostly young men get caught up in this shit and yeah, you can just say no, but you'll also probably get your shit pushed it in some of these neighborhoods unless you're down to hang with a certain crowd. It's a whole different world and the ridiculous prohibition of drug use only helps perpetuate it by throwing these dumbass kids into jail and giving them a huge black mark for the rest of their lives.
There's also no reason for it to be illegal. Making it illegal doesn't stop it's use and only helps support black markets. It's economics 101 dude that shit just doesn't work. And if you're gonna make it illegal don't make the use of it illegal, target distribution.
Plus I could go into how our entire justice system is based in revenge not rehabilitation but then I don't think you'd listen to that anyways and it's outside of the scope of this discussion.
>>878911
Money doesn't grow on trees. Sending everyone who gets caught with pot to jail is just bad statecraft, and it would be even more expensive if White neighborhoods were policed at the level Black neighborhoods are, which I assume you'd be in favor of if you wanted to catch as many 'deviants' as possible.
>>878919
>Black market drugs specifically target poor populations.
So what?
>For many it's the easiest path to any kind of decent cash flow.
So is burglary and armed robbery, should we legalese those crimes too?
>Mostly young men get caught up in this shit and yeah, you can just say no, but you'll also probably get your shit pushed it in some of these neighborhoods unless you're down to hang with a certain crowd.
So if virtually the entire neighborhood is criminally deviant what exactly is wrong with "mass incarceration"?
These people SHOULD be in prison and better that they go to prison for nonviolent crimes than waiting around for someone to actually get hurt before locking them up.
>. It's a whole different world and the ridiculous prohibition of drug use only helps perpetuate it by throwing these dumbass kids into jail and giving them a huge black mark for the rest of their lives.
That's a good point, we should take a page from Singapore and give them the death penalty instead. Permanently reduce the surplus population and trim some fat from the welfare rolls.
>>878958
Why not treat it as a medical issue rather than a criminal one like Portugal?
>>878842
The disparity was at the behest of black community the tough of crime shtick is symptom treatment albeit it isn't nothing.
>>878930
>and it would be even more expensive if White neighborhoods were policed at the level Black neighborhoods are,
The problem with this is that there's no practical reason to do it. Blacks commit disproportionate amounts of violent crime compared to whites. I, for one, don't care about deviancy that much beyond preventing violence, but drug culture is violent culture.
>>878977
because I don't care about coddling dirtbags.
>law: DON'T STAND ON THAT TRAPDOOR. THERE'S A FIFTY FIFTY CHANCE IT WILL OPEN AND DROP YOU INTO A WOOD CHIPPER!
>criminal: Do it any way! You'll be cool!
>bleeding heart: W-Why can't we just classify these people who can't follow simple directions as a medical issue and replace the woodchipper with a free feather bed?
Fuck that fag shit. Good junkies are dead junkies.
>>866708
>Has the drug war historically been used as way for the ruling class to oppress people of color?
No, as much as hippies like to pretend that was the basis of it that shift only started relatively recently. (Reagan/Clinton)
The FBI in the 30s and later presidents considered it an existential crisis, citing Enver Pasha on Egypt's drug issues, and Nixon was worrying that it would become America's answer to the Qing opium trade.
>>879254
Personally I've tried a wide variety of drugs (including a few hard drugs 2-3 times), and I'm thinking of starting a PhD (STEM) next year.
A lot of people who experiment with drugs aren't junkies or dirt-bags. see Paul Erdős and amphetamine and Freud and cocaine.
>>879289
So what? A few exceptional cases don't make up for all the people who have wasted their lives because of crack.
>inb4 BUT WHITEY PLANTED THAT SHIT
Really not the point at all, and I have yet to actually find someone who makes this claim who can support it.
>>874499
Ehrlichman had an axe to grind with everyone from the Nixon administration because they threw him under the bus during Watergate.
>>879309
>So what? A few exceptional cases don't make up for all the people who have wasted their lives because of crack.
The numbers vary depending on which drug you're looking at. I mean, I think the proportion of people who smoke pot and end up wasting their lives because of it is probably comparable to the number of people who try liquor and end up becoming alcoholics. But we as a society have decided that if you want to risk it you can go ahead and try drinking.
>>879325
>The numbers vary depending on which drug you're looking at
Which is why I think making "every" drug a medical issue is a stupid idea. If the people vote to legalize a drug, it should be legal. If not, it's probably illegal as the law stands and people should be punished when breaking the law. I honestly think this seems like an unhealthy worldview.
>>866738
>yfw building prisons is a profitable private enterprise in the US
>yfw Netherlands is gonna have to close down entire prisons soon because like a third of the cells are empty.
>>879340
Legal positivism m8
Well the last two presidents, one black and one white, both admit to past cocaine use. Nobody cares. It's more a class issue than anything, everyone uses drugs if they have any kind of social life. Poor people do the stuff and get arrested rich people do the same thing and go to rehab.
>>879374
The way you're articulating these points is honestly childish.
>Dude people make bad choices, how can we hold anyone responsible for their decisions in a world like that?
This is really all I hear from you. Any form of positivism is a disease.
>>875360
Blacks actually represent 12% of america.
>>876922
The possession of drugs should not be illegal. If you think otherwise, you're a cuck.
>>866889
theres a fairly large black population in the mn metro area
>>877765
jesus christ. fucking soccer moms
>>878911
>Muh degeneracy.
Go watch reefer madness or something
>I could go into how our entire justice system is based in revenge not rehabilitation but then I don't think you'd listen to that anyways and it's outside of the scope of this discussion.
I'd actually like to hear your position on this.
>>879436
Sorry I mistook you for a more active participant in this anonymous discussion.
>>879592
>The possession of drugs should not be illegal.
Great! you rally some friends and call your local representatives to see if you can help pass a law to make it legal. You do the research, you go to gatherings, and you make your case.
Continually using substances labeled as illegal despite knowing the repercussions makes you a criminal. If you get caught you face the full penalty of the law.
>>880263
but constitutional democracy is just bourgeois pandering. I would just be incorrectly identifying my interests with those of the ruling class.
>>880349
>incorrectly identifying my interests with those of the ruling class
oh you're incorrectly identifying something alright
>>879591
The males are only 6%
>>882966
Are you implying women can't rape?
>>879866
Maybe I will, hippy.
>>880349
Is that your counter to the labor theory of value and Marxist arguments about ideology? Weak.
