How comes Christianity and Islam were so successful and replaced pagan religions whereever they met them?
Deus Vult
Universalism and Ummah
Organized > unorganized
>>863268
>Wherever they met them
Hinduism, Folk Chinese, Buddhism, and Shinto would like to have a word.
>>863268
Pagans had many different languages so they didn't act as a unified whole. The Christians came out of Roman backgrounds and the Romans were the masters of organization in the ancient world with one single language depending of if you were East or West.
>>863318
so how comes hellenic religion, which was also successful in rome, didnt spread out like christianity did?
And how did christinaity conquer rome in the first place?
>>863268
>What is Shinto?
>What is Hinduism?
>What is Buddhism?
>>863360
No they don't.
>here read this book
Is a lot easier than
>here learn all this oral tradition that dates back hundreds maybe thousands of years that even I don't know all of and that is mostly passed down through family
>>863360
Those are some bigass exceptions adhered to by a billion human beings
Not really.
Since there were cases where
>here learn all this oral tradition that dates back hundreds maybe thousands of years that even I don't know all of and that is mostly passed down through family
Is easier than
>here, read this book penned by insane foreigners.
>>863360
>exceptions
>2 billion people
wut?
>>863358
>literalpolbeliefs.jpg
>>863395
>implying people could read
>>863268
Because both were preached at a time and place of great calamity that looked like the end times to the many who flocked to their calls of imminent doom. When the end of the world didn't come, the fanaticism of the movement had created a network of learned men, scribes, and governors who took over the imperial governments already in place to further spread their message as a new form of imperial culture. Once the empire declined, the trade and intellectual circles that developed spread their religious influence onto rulers of neighboring pagan kingdoms who further spread the faith.
Well, Christianity and Islam were upheld by some of the most powerful entities in the time. Islam definitely did not spread peacefully. The Persian empire did not just convert to Islam through peace. It was extended by the caliphates, some of the most successful empires to exist in history. Christianity is a but trickier of an answer. It spread slowly in Rome until getting the Imperial seal of approval and really skyrocketing afterwards into prominence. A couple interesting theories I heard for Christianity growing is due to its inclusiveness. There were not as many restrictions to be a Christian as a jew, so converts were easier to get. Christianity also preaches a far gentler religion than the greco-roman pantheon. Christianity is a religion of salvation, redemption and eternal life. The paHan beliefs were far more stoic with tales of the powerful dominating the weak. It's a far less comforting belief system. Not that Christianity is all sunshine, obviously, but in comparison.
Another interesting difference is the discrimination against homosexuality and abortions. Christian and Islamic people were far more fruitful and their populations grew not only from converts, but naturally from population growth. I find it interesting that pagame emperor's relied so much on adoption to have heirs. For the wealthiest man in the world to not have many biological children shows a pretty low birthrate. Sure, Caesar had a bastarda with cleopatra, but he was not as fruitful as latter Christian kings and nobility with upwards of a dozen children. If pagans as a whole reproduced just less than Christians, than Christianity was destined to overcome pagans. Not even considering all the royal backing it received from Rome and germanium kings.
>>863526
Still did not become dominant religions in those areas though.
>>863505
>The Persian empire did not just convert to Islam through peace. It was extended by the caliphates, some of the most successful empires to exist in history.
Arab political domination did not result in Persian conversion. Islam in Iran spread like Christianity in Gaul - through local governors and saints and mobs coercing pagans with carrots and sticks. At the height of the caliphates Iran was still mostly Zoroastrian or Christian. Like what happened with the decline of Western Rome, the decline of the caliphs led to Muslims lower on the ladder taking matters into their own hands.
>>863505
>>863358
You can't spread a religion by force, you'll just get Moriscos who pray in secret.
>>863526
>some success
So basically your question is: Why were Christianity and Islam kinda successful?
>>863268
They were successful because they managed to integrate themselves with the cultures of various warrior elites of Eurasia. They became warriors of the faith who decimated their pagan rivals allowing the priests and clerics of their championed faith to swoop in and rebuild the religious landscape in their own image.
The religions that survived such as Hinduism or Shinto as others mentioned did so by adopting their own warrior elites.
>>863538
>>863541
I'll be honest, I don't know as much about islam, but religion can be spread through societal pressure and coercion. Rome pushed Christianity through the state and discriminated non christians. Not always under threat of death, but just pressure. Islam may have done the same. Not necessarily always by the most violent means, but it spread religion. Missionarys don't spread Christianity by only threats. I didn't mean to imply Islam started out with ethnic cleansing, but when the most powerful entity in a region promotes something, it will have much more traction.
>>863505
>Another interesting difference is the discrimination against homosexuality and abortions. Christian and Islamic people were far more fruitful and their populations grew not only from converts, but naturally from population growth.
I dont know if this is actually true. muslim scholars used to write poetry about their boylovers in the past
>>863609
>the exception is now the rule
>>863609
I still think as a whole Abrahamics likely reproduced at a greater rate. When it's not as acceptable to go to the gym with your boys and go nuts with young men, you get more sexual release from women. Who in turn get pregnant.
I know also the boy love is still a thing in some Islamic cultures to this day. You can look up modern day soldiers dealing with Afghani boy diddlers.
>>863635
I think you are confusing cause and effect.
Religions accustom to the societies and not the other way around. If men can't fuck women, they start fucking boys. And not because a religion tells them its ok
>>863360
The exception tests the rule.
Exception proves the rule is a dumb saying.
>WE'RE TAKING SAXONIA! PAGANS DON'T UNIVERSALIZE
>>863505
Charlemagne went Jihad on pagans forcing the spread of Christianity throughout Western Europe, did you forget this?
>>863541
I generally agree, but it worked with the Nuristanis of Afghanistan.
>>863505
another consideration is how the arrangement for the natural population growth, breeding patterns and family formation make them disparate.
Christianity through the church for the most part eliminated inbreeding, since that would lead to concentrating wealth outside the church and developed along a different trajectory than Islam which is more insistent of more related than healthy intermarriages to encourage each clan of islam to best divide and rule eachother.
>>863717
Fucking eternal Anglo
>>863329
Hellenic religion is just a greek version of Partheon. The local partheons became similar to the Greek onces due to their influence through trade and connection with the Romans. The Gatea/Dacian partheon is very, very similar to the Greek ones. The best comparsion would be that it was just mountain greek religion.
When Christianity formed, it incorporated elements of the partheon into it's religion through the college of saints. So any partheon anywhere could be suppressed by bringing the religion and showing them the parallels between their religions and how christanity was a better form of worship.
The spanish were highly successful converting the native populations because of this form, as well as all the natives dieing while the Spanish remained alive.
