More precisely, I want to know on what pretenses countries that became independent of Spanish rule were formed. Was it cultural differences? Economic differences? If it was the latter, what are some examples of it?
For instance, what determined that Ecuador and Peru did not become one country or that Ecuador left Gran Colombia.
>>861051
By the way, I don't want to hear a "America Latina unida" commie kind of speech. Just historical insight into what I ask.
>>861051
Local Oligarchies' range of influence.
That simple.
>>861079
What kind of influence exactly?
I'm guessing the various tribes of southern america were like the northern american tribes where though similar there cultures were pretty different from each other. Plus the fact bad blood dies hard and some tribes really hated each other. Ex: South American Groups joining up with the Spanish against the Aztecs.
>>861163
But the limits of the countries weren't established on the basis of how Indians were distributed in the land.
>>861051
it wasn't an immediate decision and there were tons of war for it
>>861192
I know, but what were the basis for those wars?
>>861202
I can only speak for Colombia, and there were wars for everything, mainly for communications and the autonomy of the provinces, seeing that it was easier to go from Panama to Caracas than here to Bogotá, and the fact that the goverment wanted to control everything from here caused a lot of shit, mainly the separation of Venezuela, the one from Ecuador had more in common with the fact that there were essentialy warlords in the whole country and Ecuador had everything to separate itself, seeing that Guayaquil and Quito were full fledged cities and could do well as a capital city, and there were also revolutions based on taxes, the fact that the liberals wanted to expropiate church property and Nariño, the most religious part of the country, wanted the spaniards because of that, and then tried to secede to Ecuador didn't helped things, latin american politics were awful and then came the monroe doctrine and the hegemony of the US over the continent, that fucked everything again. For a fast read i can rec David Bushnell's "Colombia, una nación a pesar de si misma".
>>861051
bump
Peruvian here
We got cucked by the Brazilians. Literally they kept moving the limits until 1920 and we didn't realize until it was too late
Chile won the war and took 2 provinces
Bolivia and Colombian limits never changed
We could have annexed Ecuador by force but we chickend out
>>861051
basically pic related OP. The audiencias were the bureaucratic divisions of the "viceroyalty of peru", the territorial entity that encompassed most (it extent varied over time) of Spanish South America during the colonial period. This topic is actually a topic of a chapter in one of the landmark works on nationalism, Benedict Anderson's "Imagined Communities"
I was under the impression they followed colonial administration borders.
At least I know Argentina declared for itself the lands of the Spanish colony of La Plata (including the falklands :^) )
>>861497
>Bolivia and Colombian limits never changed
>Bolivia
>never changed
m8...Bolivia was one of the most cucked Latin American countries, probably worse than paraguay considering that the latter wooped bolivia in the 1930s Chaco war.
this is a nice little article on the subject:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/how-bolivia-lost-its-hat/
>>861533
I meant regarding to Peru
>>861557
ah I see
>>861051
Between the Spanish and Portuguese America, international treaties.
Between the nations of Spanish America, colonial borders (viceroyalties, audiencias, provinces).
Of course, there have been changes, were guided by the war or diplomacy (principle of effective occupation).
What are we talking about? The geographical boundaries of the Virreinatos, Audiencias and etc and why they were like that or why the independent republics happened within certain boundaries?
The first question, Virreinatos and etc, is due to geographical reasons, that's all.
The second question, the formation of independent republics within certain boundaries after declaring independence from Spain is related to the first question: the administration of the Audiencias and etc was centered in certain cities which naturally resulted in the surge of a political-economical elite class, the criollo oligarchy, that had a natural sphere of influence over the territory it presided over. So naturally the independent republics were conformed following mostly the territorial demarcation of the old Audiencias; the elites of Guayaquil, Lima, Santiago, Caracas, La Paz would have their own country, Buenos Aires' elites would try to impose its overlordship over Asunción, Montevideo, and the interior provinces and be cucked because of the portuguese-brazilians as well as resistance from Asunción and the interior provinces, the old Capitanía General de Guatemala would try and be its own country, according to the Spanish territorial demarcation, under the name "Provincias Unidas de Centroamérica" and failed because totally diverging political and economical interests reflecting the local interests of the criollo elites of Ciudad de.Guatemala, Managua, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, and so on.
México managed on paper to found the independent country around the demarcation of the Virreinato, except for the Audiencia de Guatemala, but only on paper, as several parts of México, especially the north of the Virreinato, were pretty detached from the authority of the polítical elites of Ciudad de México.
The Treaty of Tordesillas was the first attemp at separating the Americas into two.
Portugal and Spain, greatly encouraged by the Church, whose interest was to see those two Catholic nations remain in peace, would agree to split the New World into two different claim zones.
As you can see, Portugal would get a small fraction of nowadays Brazil and Spain would get much of the rest (look at the vertical line separating the two colours).
After the Treaty of Tordesillas, for some time, a Spanish king inherited Portugal and there was the so called Iberian Union. Portugal and Spain were a single country. This made the entirity of colonial America to be under the "Iberian" rule.
However they later split into two different countries again, and there was the Treaty of Madrid to reorganize colonial America. This is what the treaty agreed upon. Portugal now had yellow + purple.
>>863123
(continuing)
One thing Spain did though was to organize their colonies in the Americas in vice-kingdoms, duchies, etc. As you can see, colonial America belonging to Spain had a lot of different territorries, each with different administrators and governors.
This division was mostly based upon the aspects of local physical geography, the different aspects of native tribes in terms of how they react to colonizers, their ferocity, agressiveness, population, etc, and of course, it has to do with the local resources as well.
Troughout time, these vichy roys had their own kind of royal family/administration that different a lot among each other, and this contributed to the formation of different Empires as soon as the people in America realized they wanted independence. That's why Spanish America is so fucked up.
Colonial Brazil on the contrary, has always had a more centralized government despite its huge internal differences - maybe more screaming than all of the Spanish America combined.
Also, at the time, colonial Brazil was less populated than the Spanish colonies, which contributed to the creation of a big country joining all those not very numerous people.
Keep in mind that most people were on the coast, central South America, specially the Amazon basin, was barely populated. Even Manaus would only become a major city in the mid 20th century.
After the American countries gained independence, they fought a lot of wars among themselves over territorrial issues. The most notable of which being the Paraguay war, whereas Paraguay - a huge country that covered much more of its current form, and was even an economic/military power at the time, tried to get more access to sea by seizing the Prata's estuary.
This led to a war with neighboring Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina in which 30% of the Paraguayan population at the time died.
>>861051
Who cares? All countries below Texas are trash.
