How insanely bloodthirsty Vikings turned into tolerant social democratic Sweden? What was the reason behind such change of character?
About 1000 years of history.
Scandis are animals, and they got domesticated.
>>857627
Because of where they live. You can't easily sustain a large population when half your country is mountains or frozen.
So they used to go out and raid and shit to get stuff whenever they got hungry or w/e. When that stopped being possible they went socialist to try to make the best use of their resources for the most people. Well after a few centuries of sucking and starving that is.
How did Americans go from challenging each other to murder contests and beating political opponents in public to...
Oh, wait. Chicago.
Never mind.
>>857627
Because it's a meme that they were "insanely bloodthirsty".
The Vikings actually had a pretty democratic structure as far as old cultures go tbqh, I've read an article that one of the reasons social-democracy took so easily in Northern-Europe is precisely because the Vikings practiced a proto-democratic system.
didn't they basically bring democracy to the rest of europe
>>857627
Christianity tamed them
>>857665
'no'
>>857697
Thats far from "bring democracy to the rest of Europe".
You know, tribal assemblies are fairly common.
The ones with high testosterone moved to Normandy or died fighting against the Prussians, Russians and so on.
>>857708
Yes, of course, I'm guessing people like Max Manus are bitchboi betas.
>>857716
Anders Lassen. He was apparently also a beta bitchboi.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ
Outside influence
>>857735
No, but there does exist Swedes like them.
Believe it or not, but Sweden wasn't always the way it is now.
There was a time when it was a seriously imperialistic state and people.
Swedish imperialism backfired, the country shrunk and lost its relevance and status and the national consciousness was imprinted with shame and guilt. Same thing happened with Germany and Japan.
Industrialism probably helped a lot. You could probably read the history section on their wiki page though to see what specifically turned it around.
Vikings were only able to project power due to:
a) feudal disorganization
b) making a military expedition to Scandinavia was not feasible.
c) feudalism took hold in Scandinavia
Scandinavia does not have the manpower nor the resources to compete with other European states and after they couldn't abuse power vacuums they stopped being a threat. After Christianity and feudalisation Scandinavians usually targeted their attacks to the British Isles which were much less centralized than the mainland Europeans. But of course after William England was out of the picture.
The same thing happened to the Swedish Empire. Sweden was able to project its power for a while, due to good leadership and strategy (and a lot of money from the french) but it was inevitable that surrounding states like Russia and German states would surpass them.
A very similar situation to the British during the industrial revolution: The Brits had advantages and reigned supreme for a while, but it was inevitable that Germany and USA would surpass them, the resource difference was so vast.
tl;dr: Scandinavians has been able to project power in very specific scenarios but most of the time have remained insignificant due to the simple fact that they have few resources and a small population
>>857896
Vikings were only able to project power due to: inventing longboats*
fix'd
>>857627
Vikings were seasonal raiders and pirates and not representative for the Norse people. Recent affluence and peace has pacified the Nordic countries, Sweden being hit the hardest due to being the biggest and most prosperous of them all. They dodged both world wars and experienced a huge economic boom following WW2. This resulted in generation after generation being brought up in (relatively) overflowing wealth and safety, being cared for by the growing state.
Because of all this, a lot of them are ridiculously naive. They grew up in a world were everyone got to eat, everyone got an education, if you got sick or injured you received benefits to stay afloat - there's no need to lock your doors or bicycles are night because no one steals and very few people hurt others. They are so naive most of them just cannot fathom the concept of people being so low that they thank the Swede's hospitality to robbing, murdering and raping them in return. They think everyone is good and kind like them and are fed propaganda daily.
Most countries go to war when they can afford to raise armies, Sweden goes to war when they are poor. Vikings, 30yrs war, the Deluge were all times when her armies basically looted wealthier parts of Europe. Being whealthy in modern times means that theres no point in going to war.
>>857627
Cultures change over hundreds of year, big surprise. Just look at pretty much any region in the world and you'll find that it had a much different culture a few hundred years ago.
>>857708
And England.. And Ireland. Don't forget Russia.
>>857896
>feudalism ever taking hold in Scandinavia
>England less centralized than the mainland
>military expedition to Scandinavia infeasible
Jesus Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Protestantism... a cryptojew religions.
Only catholic or orthodox Europe can be a strong europe.
>>857923
This, and add the fact that the last war with Russia was so devastation, where Russia took half of Sweden, that any ambitions to be a great power trough military welfare was quelled.
Speaking from a position of somewhat a level of ignorance (studying vikings now actually) I imagine it is as one poster has said about the need for resources and the opportunities available during the early medieval period due to lack of organization and communication. I imagine the conversion of Scandinavia to Christianity probably effected it as well as there was no longer the us versus them mentality when it came to belief. You cant really justify attacking other neighbors of the same reason outside of war just because you want shiny things and a reputation. You would just end up ex communicated. This didn't make them that much more peaceful it just stopped them being focused on by European writers. All that happened was that the Scandinavian countries became more organized like other Europeans countries into proper kingdoms. As for the society being peaceful that is more of a 20th century development due to modern society and the concept of the welfare state
>>857643
How did Americans go from wild west bad asses to Hillary and Bernie supporters-
Oh wait, daddy issues. Forgot.
>>857976
bretty gud
>>857976
How's that SJW pope treating you
>>857627
It may have something to do with Vikings not being insanely bloodthirsty and you being subject to English propaganda.
>>857627
They lost half their empire to Russians and got a French king.
>>857627
Cultural enrichment
They were cucks even then. have you ever watched Vikings?
>>858215
>lol etrnal aglno proprgsndr lmao
You do realise that the Vikings raided Scotland, parts of Ireland, parts of Wales,
France, and Germany & not one of them had anything good to say about them.
I do agree that pretty much all tales of rampaging Northmen were over exaggerated to some extent, however.
A nice historical anectode for you memers talking about Sweden
one of the kings who helped bring our empire down with shitty policy and absolutism was
you guessed it!
a cuck
pic related him and his bull
Sweden is not a tolerant social democracy. It's a totalitarian shithole where you are not allowed to question the state doctrine lest you be called a racist and be ostracized.
>>857913
Are you Swedish? This is very accurate. A lot of people I know cannot fathom the concept that there are people out there who WANT to cheat, steal and hurt others.
Also OP should remember that Sweden has a pretty violent history up until the 19th century, it didn't just go from berserking vikings straight to the metrosexual cucks you see today.
>>857627
Vikings have always been pretty tolerant and egalitarian. Hell, they let women divorce for whatever reason they wanted.
>>858333
Well. besides the Thrall class at least.
>>858321
>people call u names it's so totalitarian ;_;
>>858350
The other guy is right. This is kind of famous, I forgot the name of it, but it is something called culture of homogeneity or something of the kind.
>>858394
Law of Jante/Jantelagen?
>>858350
Just because they don'r need to use crude tactics like actually killing people, doesn't mean they aren't as totalitarian as Maoist China or Soviet Russia.
They are just more efficient.
>>858394
You may be thinking about the law of jante
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
But that's nothing like Sweden being a "totalitarian shithole".
>>858409
Please explain.
>>858318
Why is Munck portrayed as a bald, bearded dude wearing a hood or something like that? Is it a play on his name`?
The cuck is not to think it is anything special.
The cuck is not to think it is as good in bed as the Bull.
The cuck is not to think it is smarter than the Bull.
The cuck is not to convince itself it is better than the Bull.
The cuck is not to think it knows more about pleasing a woman than the Bull.
The cuck is not to think it is more important than the Bull.
The cuck is not to think it is as big as the Bull.
The cuck is not to express any emotion.
The cuck is not to think anyone cares about it.
The cuck is to remain silent until instructed otherwise.
>>858468
Another example:
http://www.nysun.com/opinion/while-sweden-slept/44831/
>>857657
>The Vikings actually had a pretty democratic structure as far as old cultures go tbqh
You retarded or something?
>>858491
People seem to confuse "democratic" with "fairly open minded"
>>857701
not to mention that it wasn't even close to democratic, it was just warfare but social warfare, Kings and Lords and Thanes still defied eachother and attempted to dominate each other.
It was utter tyranny, save for that it was weak tyranny.
>>858491
Have you never heard of Tings? Vikings were some of the first people with codified laws and tax-structures.
>>858499
The last statement is utterly untrue. Sorry, I'm drunk.
>>858494
It was open-minded in the same sense that hunter-gather societies were communistic; when you're starving and don't see the sun nor can grow anything for half a year you stop giving a single fuck about what people do as long as people survive. It wasn't some progressive thought brought by some Viking philosopher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)
>>858537
The Norsemen of the Viking Age (roughly 750-1100) are best known as bloodthirsty invaders and marauders. Less well known is that they were part of a far-flung culture of significant sophistication and refinement (by the standards of the time), with a well-developed body of art, literature, and poetry, technological advances in the areas of shipbuilding and seafaring, and (most importantly for our purposes) a complex and comprehensive body of laws. Many of the integral concepts in our own legal system, including popular assembly and trial by jury, have mirrors in (or derive at least in part from) examples in the laws of medieval Scandinavia and its colonies, which stretched from the shores of Newfoundland to the Volga River and from the Mediterranean to the Arctic Circle. Many elements of Anglo-American tort, real property, and contract common law can be traced directly to Norse precedents.
We have common law because of the viking invasions and the Normandy invasion.
>>858586
750 isn't too early for all that.
>>857627
Aside from being udisputed in their mobility as raiders, they were also traders, explorers and settlers.
And what most people don't seem to realize is that not everyone in Scandinavia were Vikings at the time.
But what I think is the reason they were considered so bloodthirsty and brutal is a product of how life was in Viking society.
Their religion was a big factor in their lack of compassion since their gods didn't really punish brutality. Also I think that they would have been hardened by hardships suffered due to the harsh climate they came from.
However it's hard to deny that their terrorism wasn't a good thing for them.
They had a low risk, high reward strategy that could make their living conditions back home dramatically improve.
>>858327
Didn't it become a libertarian utopia somewhere inbetween too?
>>858020
most towns in the "wild west" had gun control strict enough to give Wayne LaPierre a stroke halfway through screaming SHALL NOT BE IN-
>Founded modern Russia
>Founded Dublin
>Make it into Byzantine Court
>Make into Sicily
>Make into Normandy
>And later English Kings
They were a failure
>>857961
Feudalism did take hold of Scandinavia, assuming that we are talking about cultural Scandinavia and not the geographical peninsula
Sweyn II of Denmark feudalised the country very roughly.
And England was much less centralized than the mainland. They had a kingdom yes, but most historians argue that before William England was very largely tribal and not a feudalised society. Also go read the sticky.
>>859313
Oh and do explain how western Europeans would have been able to attack Viking homeland during the height of Vikings? Also provide historical proofs of such plans and so on. They surely would have done it if they could have.
>>859333
Of course they would have been able, but why would they. There was literally nothing to be gained from such a campaign.
>>859313
No.
>And England was much less centralized than the mainland. They had a kingdom yes, but most historians argue that before William England was very largely tribal and not a feudalised society. Also go read the sticky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England#Governmental_systems
The reason England was targeted was because they were wealthy.
>>857657
>Human sacrifice
>Seasonal raids
>looting and pillaging defenseless villages
>'''not bloodthirsty'''
No reddit historical revisionism allowed , friend
>>857627
Russians pushing their shit in.
>>858491
Also gender equality, divorces, laws, compensation for crimes etc
why are we forgetting that swedes were pretty powerful and violent up until around Napoleon? why don't we ask what happened from then until the 20th century instead of vikings to now?
Well im glad the Hipsterish "vikings were shit" forced meme has died, we didnt need to become /v/ with dates
>>861495
Vikings were shit tho.
didn't they get super fucked in the 16th/17th century and then just did nothing since then?
>>857665
America brought democracy to Europe after we revived Athenian democratic and Roman republican ideas.
>>861788
You know Finland? Used to be eastern Sweden until Russia took it.
>>861954
>America
>anything like Athenian democracy
>>861788
Never 4get poltava
>>858754
No that was during the 80s, when Olof Palme was prime minister, He introduced the "solidarity" meme we see in Sweden today
>>858297
>dat autism
>>862326
>invading russia during the coldest winter in decades
What could possible go wrong?
Christianity turned them into what they became. No seriously, the more christian you are in Norway the more it seems you have to be a soft value kind of person. They more often than not are donating money to starving kids all over the globe, are welcoming of refugees and gets triggered if you're the devils advocate in such issues and counter their personal values. "Helplessly helpful" would describe them best. They brought us to this.
>>862391
>No seriously, the more christian you are the more it seems you have to be a soft value kind of person.
>They more often than not are donating money to starving kids all over the globe
What the hell are you talking about? They burned and raped their way through half of europe during their Muh Lutherism period.
>>862415
Did a 8yo drawn that?
>>862415
Have you noticed that in Swedish culture, people in general take the german, 'I have be mindful of the rules at all times' thing even more seriously (They ceck the ID of children buying energy drinks and follow every rule given by hotels and such, frowning upon those who does not follow.). This culture might have been born out of Sweden's overly pompous aristocracy as well as a well as the unique and efficient military structure born in Sweden during the 30 years time period.
Military Sweden was at that time were similar to Germany during WW1. Similar in this strict 'punishment not reward' and obedient style, they commited atrocities in Belgium, terrorising innocent civilians into submission.
>>857627
>The 'all vikings were mad raving warriors' meme.
>>857627
A jew carpenter happened
The rest is, as they say, history
>>857627
>insanely bloodthirsty Vikings
what?
http://www.danishnet.com/vikings/cleanliness-did-vikings-take-baths/
>>858297
Pretty funny
But no one actually bealives this right?
>>857657
How are "bloodthirsty" and "democratic" even opposed?
>>858491
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althing
>>860863
>seasonal raids
For everyone else, that's called "campaigning season."
>>857627
Cuckstianity.
Why is it that the areas of the US with Swedish settlements (Austin, TX, Minnesota, NJ/PA) are as full of Somalians as Sweden itself, despite being separated for 200 years?
>>857627
>>857657
>>857896
For fucks sake, vikings were not a people. It was a profession. The vikings were mostly trading merchants and sometimes plundering raiders, most of who were from the areas we call Sweden, Norway and Denmark today. In the golden days of the vikings even the slightest idea of a unified Kingdom such as for instance Sweden was not even formed yet. Saying vikings were a people with their own culture is comparable to saying the pirates of the 18th century were a 'people'.
>>866859
He's right you know.jpg
No thinker has as yet been daring enough to evaluate the health of society or of individuals according to the number of parasites which it can support: and no statesman has yet been found to use the ploughshare in the spirit of that generous and tender saying “If thou wilt till the land till it with the plough; then the bird and the wolf walking behind thy plough will rejoice in thee—all creatures will rejoice in thee”.
>>865599
This. That's fucking retarded. Democracy certainly doesn't mean peaceful and vice versa.
>>858496
That's not what tyranny means.
>>857627
>insanely bloodthirsty Vikings
nice meme, toppest of memes of all years
yeah, they did acts of cruelty, but so did charlemagne and every other christian monarch at the time. Vikings were the fucking epitome of pragmatism, they weren't bloodthirsty vagabonds who only sought to destroy
>>866859
You are of course right, but to add, they were settlers and explorers too as well as merchants. And
>sometimes plundering raiders
nah. Ever heard of the tingmannalid? The great heathen army? They were conquerors also
>>858469
hot
>>857735
>implying there is such a thing as "swedish", "norwegian" and "danish"
they're all the same people
>>865665
Because Minnesota is stupid liberal. Can vouch, from here.
