Valid grounds for annulment of marriage in the Catholic Church
>you married for social status but the person did not have the status you expected
>you didn't know marriage was a "permanent relationship"
>you married intending to have the option of divorce open
>you did not know marriage was an "exclusive relationship"
http://www.stmarys-waco.org/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf
https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/marital_consent.htm
What's wrong with those?
>>796896
I reallu hope you aren't a protefag.
>>799448
How do they warrant annulment?
>>799460
Not him, but why? At least protestants are straightforward and honest. These reasons are complete bullshit
>>800501
Marriage is a union of souls into something greater than either of them would be separately. There is a metaphysical, supernatural component to sacramental marriage. If you don't actually want to join with your spouse in eternal, mystical union, your marriage isn't valid.
>>796896
One of the hundreds of hypocrisies in that cult. You can't divorce, but you can pay to make your marriage go away. Even if there are children involved. Disgusting.
>>800546
Except that works even if both parties are unaware that works. It's how we were designed.
Papists. Not even once.
>>800546
What if you had mixed feelings?
>>800589
Two still became one flesh. Every time you couple with someone, you become one flesh. And every time you break that off and find another, a bit of you dies.
>>796896
>>you didn't know marriage was a "permanent relationship"
What?
>>800599
>What is a "back door".
Compare these with grounds for divorce in the Orthodox Church
http://saintdemetrios.com/our-faith/divorce
>>800677
Backdoor Sluts 9 makes Crotch Capers 3 look like Naughty Nurses 2!
>>799448
>you married intending to have the option of divorce open
Isn't this tantamount to sanctioning divorce?
>>800576
No, marriage is a sacrament that is given by the spouses to each other, not the priest (in Catholicism)
>>801197
No, because it is an ANNULMENT. NOT a divorce. The Catholic Church FORBIDS divorce. It's actually the Orthodox Church that allows it.
>>800572
>implying annulment is like a divorce in that it just makes the marriage stop existing
>implying it isn't lengthy discernment to see if the marriage was ever valid in the first place
>implying that if marriage is determined to have been valid then an a holler can still happen
>Implying Protestantism isn't heresy or unbiblical by trying to call the Catholic Church a cult
>>801692
>it's effectively divorce, but we'll call it annulment to as to maintain the letter of the law
>>801840
The Church alone can grant the sacrament, and the Church alone can invalidate it.
Simple enough. It's another aspect of binding and loosing. It's the power of the Keys.
>>801840
>>it's effectively divorce
No it isn't. It's like finding a signature was forged for a contract that the person the signature is trying to emulate never signed or agreed to sign.
It was never valid to begin with.
>>801382
Yeah. Annulments are worse than divorces, and the Catholic Church takes bribes to give them to people. So, double evil. And will do so even if there are children present, heirs to the two people. Just disgusting.
>>802001
>and the Catholic Church takes bribes to give them to people.
why can't funnel cakes be used for eucharist
serious question
(Non-Christian here)
How do Catholics interpret this verse?
I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." [Matthew 19:9]
>>802095
Infidelity is a valid cause for annulment, but it's also better that they sort out their issues and stay together. Also that two divorcees who's marriage was valid are still married until one of them croaks.
>>802115
>Infidelity
>stay together
I don't mean this in the normal 4chins meme way, but that's cuckold shit.
>>800707
Much better, orthodoxy really is the best.
>>802001
Bitch please, the entire reason Anglicanism exists is because the Church refused to annul Henry VIII's marriage like he wanted.
>>802115
>Infidelity is a valid cause for annulment
Where is the concept of annulment brought up in this verse? It says divorce.
>Also that two divorcees who's marriage was valid are still married until one of them croaks.
Where does it say that?
>>802153
Divorce is only for the legal. Anullment is for the spiritual aspect of it.
>>800597
>I have never had sex.
>>802115
>Infidelity is a valid cause for annulmen
Nope, guess again. The reasons the OP gives are valid, but the Catholic Church doesn't allow it for infidelity.
>>802422
Annulment and divorce are distinct things, both legally and spiritually. Divorce is terminating a marriage, an annulment is saying the marriage was never valid to begin with. For instance, valid grounds for annulment in the Orthodox Church (and in civil law) would be if the guy were already married and it he hid it: if that were the case, then the marriage would never have been valid to begin with. An annulment is not something to do to a marriage: if there is an annulment, there never was any marriage to begin with, even both partners thought there was. So it is not something that comes up very often, and I think it is wrong for the Catholic Church to use the term for all divorces.
>>802135
The Catholic Church is waaaaaay more liberal today than it was in Henry VIII's time.
>>802511
>Catholic Church to use the term for all divorces
Well, we don't. Most of the unenlightened in this thread however...
>>802047
The original Eucharist was Jesus celebrating the Passover feast with his disciples before he was arrested. The Passover is celebrated with unleavened bread, hence the Eucharist is traditionally also celebrated with unleavened bread.
>>802525
You do. That's because the Church banned divorce in canon law
>Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2384
You basically use annulment to get around this prohibition.
>>802679
Christ did not use unleavened bread, as you can tell from the Greek text. There is a particular word for unleavened bread, and it is not used, the world for leavened bread is. Unleavened represents the old covenant, leavened represents the new covenant. This is why the Orthodox Church uses leavened bread.
>>802724
Why would he use leavened bread? Why would leavened bread be anywhere near the Passover feast?
>>802724
In fact the word is "artos" a word that can mean either leavened or unleavened bread. The Septuagint authors used artos in their translation of Leviticus (obviously referring to unleavened) so it is probable that artos in the Gospel refers to unleavened.
>>802736
Because is the the new covenant Passover. It was not in remembrance of the captivity of Egypt, it was in remembrance of Christ, and he himself was the Passover lamb of the new covenant.
>>802760
We're talking about the NT, not the OT. The NT makes a sharp distinction.
>>802767
I also add the the bread in Leviticus is the shewberad, it is not explicitly stated to be unleavened in the Bible, and the Hebrew terminology makes no distinction.
>>802767
Yeah, but wouldn't the 12 question a leavened loaf being used in the ritual? You know, because they were all Jews who were doing this since they were children and would really be concerned someone was doing the Sedar with leavened bread like how both Catholics and Orthodox would be concerned if someone tried consecrating an Arnold Palmer as the Blessed Sacrement?
>>802760
Yeah, this makes more sense IMO.
>>802782
Someone cite Exodus, I'm intrigued by this.
>>802798
The feeling, unfortunately, is not mutual. We probably could okay the use of unleavened bread if that were all standing between us, but otherwise it's too associated with Rome innovating.
>>800707
is divorce valid if the wife claimed to be a virgin before but was proven afterwards not to be?
>>802932
Seems like it would be hard to prove she said that and to prove you didn't take her virginity.
If she's a religious Orthodox Christian, who attended Church and fasted, you wouldn't have to worry, she'd be truthful about something like that. If she's not a virgin she's not going to claim she is.
>>802958
are you the poster formerly known as constantine?
i wanted some advice on a personal matter, and i generally respect her perspectives
>>803059
What is it?
>>803075
one of my professors is making me write an essay defending abortion, and on top of that i have to debate another student in the class on the issue. in the past he had a student who was being ordained to be a minister who was in the same position as i find myself know, but he wouldnt let him switch topics. so compromise isnt an option here.
i get the point of the assignment is to learn to argue perspectives we dont necessarily agree with in order to strengthen our reasoning skills, and i do agree that it is valid, but:
1. frankly, i already have strong reasoning skills, and i don't need the practice
2. 90%of my life i was secular anyway, so these positions aren't foreign to me
the problem is that ive been moving toward christianity, and this just doesnt sit well on my conscience. it bothers me on a really deep enotional level.
im considering dropping the class (which wouldn't be that big a deal, as im enrolled in quite a few this semester). what do you think?
>>803123
find myself now*
>>803123
Ask him how would it make him feel if he were told to write an essay defending segregation.
>>803163
he would say that he would be fine with it since it's "just an excercise". but that is immaterial. all i want is to know what a good christian should do here. should i listen to my conscience?
>>803177
It's not just an exercise, it has a point. The point is to make the other opinion seem more reasonable to you. That's what the point is.
Ask him, see what he'd say.
>>803177
By the way, my advice here, whether I told you it was okay or not okay, is invalid regardless. Since there is no dogmatic ruling, the you have to ask your priest get an affirmative yes or no. He will give you what your bishop would think (which is a big deal, since bishops are all ordained from monasteries), he is almost sure to know. If he doesn't, he will ask, but he is almost sure to know.
>>803191
he's really really touchy. once i criticized a question on a quiz and he took it very personally. i did it in a very civil manner, and i had no bad intentions.
you still haven't answered my question. what do you think? i want to come to a final decision sooner than later, and i need some help figuring this out.
>>803208
ok, ill try to ask a priest. im still curious on your personal opinion, but you dont have to answer.
>>803177
>all i want is to know what a good christian should do here. should i listen to my conscience?
Not Constantine, but why is your conscience troubled? Do you think you might unintentionally convince someone abortion is alright? Please elaborate
>>803240
something like that. i wouldn't want to half ass it or do it in bad faith, so either i do it right or not at all. not trying to brag, but im a very strong critical thinker.
>>803240
and i suppose there is also the fact that christians have DIED for their religion. is it really asking that much for me to drop a class? how could i justify doing something i feel is wrong in order to avoid such a banal consequence as 3 less credits during spring semester?
its the debate in front of the class that bothers me the most. im going to see if he will let me approach the essay from a descriptive standpoint instead (i doubt it); i.e. to describe accurately and in good faith the argument for the pro-choice side without misrepresentation, but not advocating it necessarily.
>>802525
>802525
So you don't allow divorce...but you basically allow divorce, without calling it that?
>>803291
(Muslim here)
Maybe you could get a note, and say you don't want to do it on religious grounds? They might have to accommodate you.
>>803225
>>803234
I don't think I should give you my opinion because it is not authoritative. You should not consider me, as a person, as a source of authority on ANYTHING relating to Christianity. Any authority on anything I say is from Scripture or the Church Fathers. Any insight I gain is from reading, to gain a deeper insight requires extensive prayer and fasting on a level that I do not meet. This is what elders in monasteries do, which is why their opinion is so highly regarded even when they often aren't even priests, but I not an elder by any stretch, and you should not invest so much regard in me.
>>803316
if you say the original post i said he previously had a student who was being ordained to be a minister, and he refused to compromise with him despite protestations from that student that it was sitting very heavily on his conscience.
>>803322
double dubs don't lie
thanks, ill try to contact a priest. do you think it would be appropriate to contact one over the phone? i dont have a car at the moment.
>>803328
if you saw*
>>803306
Marriage is a binding and unbreakable contract notarized by God.
Anullment is finding that the contract was never valid and thus never notarized by God.
Divorce is both parties mutually ignoring the contract despite it having been notarized by God.
>>803322
wait, is this the same institution of elsers dostoevsky talks about in brothers k? is it a very common practice?
>>803291
If he asked to write an essay that denied Christ, of course you would have to say no, because that is apostasy. Saint John Chrysostom said, "Where there is no persecution, the Gospel is not being preached." (and he himself was persecuted extensively by other members of the clergy as well as by the emperor and empress, and that was after Christianity was legal). So it speaks highly of you to actually be troubled. But, you cannot look for a definitive answer here. I cannot be your mentor on anything that's not expressly clear in books, no matter how highly you regard me, because we have books to read as a *consolation* to our spiritual ineptitude. True knowledge comes from rigorous fasting, intent and prayer to Christ for forgiveness (the last is the most important by far). I do these things, but to no where near the level required to be considered a spiritual authority. I can only quote other authorities.
>>803328
Oh. Is this a big part of your grade?
>>803352
So Catholicism ignores Matthew 19:9
>>801382
>No, because it is an ANNULMENT. NOT a divorce.
You are hair-splitting harder than the most autistic Talmudic scholar.
>>803362
yeah, but i can still drop the class. it wouldn't be considered a fail. even if it would be considered a fail im still not sure i wouldnt drop it.
>>803366
sorry, what? could you rephrase that?
>>803368
Civil divorce may be necessary, but remarriage is a no-no. This is what the verse expresses
>>803373
Sorry, you didn't mention what class this is. Is it philosophy, english, or...?
>>803399
it's a class called "logic in practice", basically a critical thinking course.
>>803380
Ask your teacher if you could give a brief exposition of why you disagree with abortion after the debate and why your arguments *for* abortion arent convincing to you.
>>803358
what would be a proper way to address a priest in an email?
>>803416
Reverend [last name] is common in the West, but the Orthodox generally say Father [first name[
>>803409
Drop it. Saves you time, work, it's a useless class, and you can conserve your principles. I literally can't think of a reason for you to continue taking it.
>>803381
Catholics allow remarriage after annulment.
>>803435
annulment isnt divorce
>>803434
that was my line of thinking, since it really isnt a big deal as far as classes go. id still like to consult the priest to get an orthodox opinion
>>803430
I call all the Priests I've met Father.
I'm Catholic BTW.
>>803444
Oh, my bad.
>>803539
I mean in a letter. which normally uses a different form of address than in person.
>>803544
Yeah, I've done that in writing too.
>>803550
Reverend came into use because it's a secular certification, I think, like doctor, whereas "father" is not.
>>803593
Well I've always associated "Reverend" with Protestantism and not wanted to use it in any capacity for that reason.
>>800707
All that and then at the end they stick their hand out, lol. Delightful.
>>803626
Why shouldn't they? Civil divorce costs money too.
>>799460
He was too much man for one woman.
