Why does god give us free will but then punish us for exercising our god given right to chose?
>>783645
>what is responsibility
waa i want to be able to do whatever i want with no fear of consequence :((
>>783651
>not answering the question.
>>783652
>ignoring the answer
>"where is le answer friend :^)"
>>783657
>being facetious does anything but prove the childish ignorance of the user :^)
Really, why bother?
because the choice is a no-brainer, quite literally
>>783669
But god already knows what and where we are going to chose. It has literally no bearing on him, but on us.
>you must do what I say
>even though I have given you the ability to maybe not do that
>although I already know you aren't and am going to punish you for it anyway
>hehehe jokes on you
God doesn't punish
He created hell so that sinners could choose to go there
God created a universe where even thinking about pocketing candy metaphysically condemns you to eternal pain and suffering
It's our fault
Adam and Eve disobeyed God so we must bear their crime
If a man committed murder, can we not assume his children and grandchildren deserve some measure of responsibility?
God doesn't want robots, he wants people so utterly devoted to obeying him and praising him despite having the ability not to.
Wouldn't you prefer a slave who chooses to love you? We exist to serve God. That is our purpose. If you created a clone/robot/child you can do whatever you want with it.
I am proud to be a slave of my master Jesus Christ
>>783645
god doesnt punish you, its being a person that does shitty things that's punishment enough you dickweed like fucking goddamn how hasnt this occurred to you yet nigga you're an adult
>>783681
Surely he can create the subservient loving and fearing creatures you speak of without giving them free will, if he can do anything that is.
>>783686
>how hasnt this occurred to you yet nigga you're an adult
The irony is not lost on me, child.
>>783674
god knows but does not know like a human knows
god knows is god in us that knows
if you do choose, choose as yourself then you meet god, if you choose as if you had no choice then you did not choose
and the punishment is not the punishment of the past, it is the punishment of your inability to free yourself from the past
>>783696
>speaking gibberish
>wanting to only argue semantics instead of the ideas
>>783688
What's the point of having a slave if they have no will of their own?
The ideal slave has free will and CHOOSES not to run away, because he is so devoted to his master's happiness
>>783699
fine let me speak simply
it is not punishment derived from your sins
it is punishment derived for your unwillingness to trust in god
you become enslaved to your sins, thus you cannot have a greater faith
so it's not that god knows, it's that god knows but doesn't matter
also that's not from 7 samurai
>>783711
Heresy
>>783662
he just answered you child, that is the perfect fucking answer
you are free to choose but you are not free from the consequences
>>783787
Exactly.
If someone tries to rape you there's a choice to say no and struggle. But the consequence will be a violent rape & murder.
>>783645
Why bother. We're in hell already.
Because god is a petty, extremely narcissistic and short sighted fuckwit.
I'm sorry, I meant "he works in mysterious ways".
>>783800
this probably sounded very funny and witty in your head but it just show hows stupid and buttflustered you are
>>783711
Not him
That still makes no sense.
Trust is earned not given.
There are no reasons for me to trust god
>>783651
>eating from the tree of knowledge [of good and evil]
>deserve eternal punishment in the pits of hell
wew lad, what a rational and just god you have there
>>783864
God is All-Knowing. Your responses keep getting stupider.
>inb4 "How do I know God is All-Knowing ? :^)"
You're clearly speaking about Abrahamic religion.
>>783864
trust in this case is the trust in the beyond, there is no need to earn because this thing is unearthly
you either leap or you don't
>>783867
adam and eve are special
their crime is actually the knowledge that knowledge can lead you astray, by giving adam and eve the first sin it makes them the progenitors of the freedom of choice
>>783873
That's wrong trust is always to be earned.
Why is there merit in this leap.
Why would a being so much greater seemingly incapable of understanding the absurdity of faith?
Why punish us for it?
>>783883
>knowledge that knowledge can lead you astray is a crime
Nice mental gymnastics. Want to do a couple more flips?
>>783871
That was my first post.
But how do you know is a legit question even if you don't like it it should be addressed.
Another question is how does God know he is all knowing?
>>783917
>Another question is how does God know he is all knowing?
You are literally autistic. I hope you reach the point, where you question whether you yourself exist.
>>783903
1 trust with an earthly entity is earned, so that there is reciprocation
2 this leap is unexplainable in materialistic terms because it is not reasonable
3 faith is absurd, this is not unknown to man or to this being
4 you are punished because after presenting you with overwhelming evidence (supposedly) and you chose to rely in the earthly (remember that the acceptance can happen at any time so that your punishment is only justified if you held on despite not knowing what may happen to your own understanding)
in the end though it is not the illogic of punishment that makes the non-believer because to fear punishment means that you have to believe in the punishment, it only serves to help to understand the nature of faith and not really anything beyond that
the judaic non-heaven is a better representation, the souls are lost forever because they could not find god in life, the early christian hell was something like that, it did not involve punishment, only the state of not-finding
>>783935
There is nothing wrong with that question.
You just can't answer any questions posed so you resort to hostilitu. That's very childish
>>783935
>autism
I love how religious downies keep falling back on this now that the fedora meme is out of style.
Just in case you have a misconception on why atheism is correlated with autism, autistic people have a hard time forming interpersonal relationships because the part of their brain that's dedicated to it is barely functional. Coincidentally, GAWD inhabits the part of people's brain associated with interpersonal relationships. It has nothing to do with intelligence, and it's a point in favor of GAWD being just another imaginary friend.
>>783950
>Coincidentally, GAWD inhabits the part of people's brain associated with interpersonal relationships
>acting as if this is a surprise
>not knowing the relationship between the Lord and a slave
>>783939
1. Wrong special pleading bull. I decide what I do with my trust there are no exceptions it is to be earned.
4. This is the problem with God being all knowing. He knows very well the 'evidence' is not up to snuff for me yet does nothing to rectify it. So in essence I am being punished for his faults.
Nah dude the punishment thing does nothing to elucidate the nature of faith.
>>783971
1 yes because it has to do with the things you are willing to see and not see, faith is personal, the freedom of interpretation boundless
4 the evidence is ample, what god will not do is force you believe, the beauty is in the apparent freedom, it seems like he is playing but not really because no matter how full of faults he might be he still is or he isn't
punishment does because a non-believer wouldn't care about punishment because no god = no punishment, fear of punishment is fear of god or the fear of his power by extension him
>>783935
>I hope you reach the point, where you question whether you yourself exist.
You never have? Pleb.
god doesn't actually punish us
>>783983
>the evidence is ample
Like what? What actual evidence is there?
>>783983
1. No you are just spouting platitudes now.
I cannot will myself to see anything it is either there or it is not.
2. There is no evidence. If there is present some.
Providing compelling evidence it not forcing. You people need to stop with this nonsense.
I try to see things as plain as I can and God is playing, playing the faithful for the fools that they apparently are.
>>784018
>>784026
ask a religious person what makes them believe in god
those are the articles of faith, it's not suppose to be some criminal investigation
this is not about wrong or right it is what a person is willing to see as the work of god
if you say there is none i will not argue because what you take for evidence wouldn't work
what makes the burden of proving non-existence meaningless is the ability to believe in the beyond, and to seek or question the necessity of god means that you are willing to see imperfection in something that supposedly doesn't exist
and if it doesn't exist then all of this doesn't really matter
once you take out the human aspects of god then really god is more powerless than you realize
>>784042
What you think is evidence would make you believe a whole shitload of batshit ideas, like alien abductions and past lives and indian mystic guru ubermensch, if you actually stuck to it. As it is, it's just a vapid crutch for your unsubstantiated beliefs.
>>784042
That was a disappointing response.
You need to be aware the most atheists were once faithful so that shit won't work anymore.
The only thing you are saying is in order to believe you must first believe.
No I am questioning the concept of a god.
Intelligent people can entertain an idea without accepting it.
>>783911
>" don't eat this Apple very dear to me"
> random snake pops out of nowhere
"Yo you know the thing God told you not to do? You should do it"
>do it for the lols
> get rekt
>. OH NOES HOW THE FUCK WAS I SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES TO MY ACTIONS!!
>>783645
Your question is "why do bad things happen when we make bad choices".
I assure you, that through the proper functioning of a free will to openly and freely choose to be with God, in God's family, the rewards are beyond your wildest imagination.
>>785085
>I assure you, that through the proper functioning of a free will to openly and freely choose to be with God, in God's family, the rewards are beyond your wildest imagination.
You cannot possibly know that to be true.
>>785098
And yet, I do, as I know God keeps His promises. And what I have already experienced with Him is beyond my wildest expectations.
>>785116
>And yet, I do
No you don't. You just claim you do with zero evidence.
>>785123
I have not seen the deaf, dumb, and blind healed? I have not watched congenital heart defects disappear? I have not seen dead men come to life?
It's odd that you think you know what my experiences with God are, since you know neither me, nor God.
>>785127
You can see whatever you want mate, doesn't make it any more true than the hallucinations of the average schizophrenic.
>>785127
>I have not seen the deaf, dumb, and blind healed?
I doubt it.
>I have not watched congenital heart defects disappear?
I seriously doubt it.
>I have not seen dead men come to life?
I absolutely doubt it.
So, bring up some proof or shut the fuck up.
>>785136
All of the doctors involved were convinced they were miracles, yet you, the cynic, dismiss anything that does not fit in your little autistic worldview.
So, so sad.
>>785138
How does one prove things to fools? You tell me how to do that, and I will prove these things to you.
>>785142
>How does one prove things to fools?
With actual proof. You know, the same way you prove anything.
>this thing happened
>no way!
>show evidence
>oh wow that thing really happened!
Also, it's poor form to make accusations of autism. The whole autistic thing is actually a stroke against your belief.
>>785140
>All of the doctors involved
Which doctors?
>>785148
Really? Because the universe is actual proof of the God Who made the universe.
And yet, you say there is no God, and no evidence of God.
Are you sure fools can be shown anything, and be persuaded in any manner whatsoever?
>>785150
Why don't you just call any doctor, say an ER doctor, or an OBGYN, and ask him if he's ever seen a miracle?
>>785148
>Also, it's poor form to make accusations of autism. The whole autistic thing is actually a stroke against your belief.
It actually isn't though. It's common for the average Christian to be hateful to unbelievers even though their God literally tells them to love their neighbor as themselves.
>>785154
>Really? Because the universe is actual proof of the God Who made the universe.
No it isn't, it's proof of the universe, which is better explained as a result of naturalistic processes (in fact, every time religion and science have come into conflict, science has won). Prove that it implies God.
>And yet, you say there is no God, and no evidence of God.
As far as we know, there isn't, and there isn't any evidence to imply there is one.
>Are you sure fools can be shown anything, and be persuaded in any manner whatsoever?
Well, talking to you makes me doubt that.
>>785158
Last doctor I talked to on the subject outright said, in these exact words "he doesn't exist" in regards to God.
I'm not sure why you'd think a profession that regulardly sees kids dying in agony from cancer would be a font of love of God.
>>785158
That seems like a tremendous waste of time.
Also, doctors, being rational and all that, would probably tell you that if something unexplained ever happened to them, they'd suspend judgement about it and don't conclude that it must have been magic
>>785175
Miracles. I said nothing about their belief in God. I said ask doctors if they've ever seen miracles. Things they cannot explain with "science".
>>783645
You have free will but should be aware of the harm you can bring to others.
>>785185
>Things they cannot explain with "science".
More commonly known as 'unknowns'. Honestly, a qualified doctor would never make all the ridiculous leaps of logic you're making.
>>785179
No, a tremendous waste of time would be hooking some godless lunatic on 4chan up with the doctors of my children and in-laws.
>>785192
Then if they're not willing to accept the possibility of miracles, they're not exactly arbiters of truth, are they.
You know, you people are all depressed for very good reasons, and they all come from your horrific worldviews.
>>785181
>Still not sure how telling the truth is "unloving".
Calling someone an autist for not believing in Christianity is literally hypocritical.
>>785194
I can only imagine what kind of doctors you have. Does he diagnose diseases by throwing sticks on the floor and cure them by sprinkling you with the blood of a pig?
>>785200
I'm not even the first person to call him autistic, in this thread.
Maybe get some discernment.
>>785201
documented healings dot com
Tell me, why are you skeptics and cynics so lazy? That took me like 10 seconds to find on google.
>>785243
Holy shit, I was wrong! This looks like a really profession peer-reviewed journal!
Who knew that my sinful way would be corrected by something that looks like a shitty geocities website from 1995?
>>785272
What couldn't correct a sinner from his ways?
>>785243
Peer reviewed would be nice.
>>785230
>I'm not even the first person to call him autistic, in this thread.
That doesn't justify you in doing so.
>>785181
>You believe there will be, by faith, in the future.
No, I don't speculate on shit we can't know anything about.
>>785198
>You know, you people are all depressed for very good reasons, and they all come from your horrific worldviews.
Who said we're depressed, and in what way are our worldviews horrific? Frankly, I find the notion that there's a scheming God behind every instance of a child suffering through parasitic worms in his eyes far more horrific than such a thing being an unfortunate product of evolution.
>>785706
The truth is the truth. I'll stick to the truth, and you can do whatever it is that you do.
>>785724
You have no reason to believe that's the truth. Which is hilarious, because it's exactly like your faith in God. One delusion has opened the door to more of them.
>>785727
Yes, the truth tends to lead people to the truth in many areas. The truth has a nice dull ring to it. One day, maybe you'll understand.
Your entire line of posts is just so useless.
Christians aren't mean.
You're mean.
Therefore you're not a Christian.
So, so dumb.
>>783701
That is a high pile of stinking horse shit and you know it.
>>785732
>Your entire line of posts is just so useless.
Nah, I'm having fun mocking you.
Also Christians aren't supposed to hate, and bandying about accusations of mental illness sure implies it.
It's amazing how Christians can dish it, but are completely incapable of taking it.
There is no abrahamic god
>>783645
It's funny how Epicurus gets praise for this quote when quotes like these are dismissed
"It is not the man who denies the gods worshipped by the multitude, who is impious, but he who affirms of the gods what the multitude believes about them" -Epicurus
or
"The gods are immortal and blessed and men who ascribe any additional qualities that are alien to immortality and blessedness are impious." - Epicurus
>>785739
Yes, it is quite clear that you think the autistic poster was being mocked.
If you think I am concerned about being mocked and ridiculed by people like you, let me let you in on a little secret.
You're money in the bank to me.
>>785742
God and Abraham were friends.
>>785757
Because it's a good quote, and the fact it came from Epicurus largely irrelevant. Newton also practised alchemy. The fact Newtonian physics was ground-breaking doesn't make alchemy valid.
>>785760
>You're money in the bank to me.
Very un-Christian. -10 Jesus points for you.
>>785771
The fact that some people like to portray he is as some "first ancient atheist" is laughable, because of the fact that Epicurus did indeed believe in Gods.
