Why did the Proletariat fail to rise up and seize power from the bourgeoisie? The global revolution should have happened by now, but instead the world is more unequal than ever.
Because that's not how history works.
I'm looking at you too, progress-believers.
>>77378
You're not paying attention. The 20th century was defined by the conflict of revolutionary proletarians against bourgeois states. Strong-arming, sabotage, and counter-revolution stymied these movements in the early 90s but that is a short history. It took the capitalist class much longer to establish their revolution over the earth.
>the world is more unequal than ever.
And this is precisely why history has not ended.
Because inequality is not wrong.
>>77518
>Implying it will ever end.
>>77378
Ok, basically because Marx never predicted a real date for the proletarian revolution. In terms of concreteness Marx goes never further than ' and then the bourgeoisie will oppress the proletarians to the max and the revolution will start', but when and how that happens is left completely open.
This resulted in a major theoretical whole which left a lot of early marxists gasping for answers. You get people like Rosa Luxemborg trying to calculate the moment of revolution (The Accumulation of Capital), and reformists who want to create the proletarian paradise by using parlementary democracy, but nobody knows exactly what's the route to revolution in accordance to Marx. The only hints he spread was that a civilization should be industrialised and advanced enough, so that the proletariat would cosnsist of actual industrial workers ( and, ironically, so he disregarded Russia as a viable place for the revolution, 'as it wasn't advanced enough'). Marx basically left a void and this is one of the major flaws of marxism
>>77378
Maybe because Marx is bullshit.
>>77378
It is because Capitalism assimilates the critique. It absorbs it to survive.
Turns out the Proletairat are poor leaders and often only think of their immediate needs/wants with no care for the future.
>>77378
the rise and fall of communism in russia sealed the deal, then unions died.
Because Marx was wrong and capitalism today isn't the same as capitalism then. Things have changed.
>>77643
>meme history
go away
>>77378
because were in the early stages of late capitalism
remember that feudalism and monarchy was the ruling state for thousands of years before capitalism came along and freed the bourgeois
i have doubts we will ever see another successful socialist revolution in our lifetimes
>>77378
/his/-history
To mention nothing of the fact that
>but instead the world is more unequal than ever
is wrong and poverty is at an all time low.
>>77378
Turns out the ideology for the proletariat should have been created by one of them
>>77687
>the world is more unequal than ever
>talks about poverty
at least prove it, lol.
>>77676
>ignoring all the failures his shitty ideology suffered
The delusions of a commie idiot.
>>77739
>>77594
The more I read about marxism, the more I'm convinced to consider it a religion or cult.
>>77740
I'm not even marxist, sherlock.
go away, I insist.
>>77739
>muh sophisticated pessimism
>>77748
>if you make $1.01/day you aren't considered in poverty
>>77758
The word you are looking for is dogmatic.
Same happens with science and almost everything, actually.
Everything is ideologized these days.
>>77594
>Marx basically left a void and this is one of the major flaws of marxism
You're ignoring the biggest flaw of marxism that makes your whole explanation unnecessary:
his materialist conception of history is seriously flawed in the sense that it cannot be falsified.
Anything and everything can be absorbed into marxist analysis. Nevermind the fact that the premisses that Marx used to establish his analysis of capitalism are completely outdated and make no sense in the 21st century too
>>77748
>1$ less
>be indian
>work 20 hours for 50 euro/month
>LOL YOU'RE NOT POOR
>>77787
And it was at that moment that anon had the horrifying revelation that the definition of poverty is arbitrary.
>>77773
>memes
Are you aware inequality and poverty are not the same thing?
>>77531
Rand, please, go away.
>>77378
because it was all a meme to just allow Jews to plunder the entire world unimpeded thanks to marxist thought.
>>77772
You walk like a commie and quack like a commie. The logic would be that you're a filthy commie
Also, I'm not the guy that you first replied.
ITT: People who don’t understand leftism and are sycophantic to the capitalist system due to inability to understand anything with a complexity level above Econ 101 and it’s sweeping inaccurate generalizations. Marx wasn’t wrong, you just can’t interpret philosophy. Manifesto is a bit outdated, but Das Kapital and his speeches still stand.
>>77866
there was no way marx was giving up his lavish living for peasants, he just wanted to be able to live everywhere and take in all races and states plunder.
>>77758
That's because you can't think for yourself.
Capitalism changes the psychology of men once it's fully established, it makes the orient of everyone's thoughts focus toward gain, money and the enlargement of their own material existence. Instead of social movements aiming towards new social systems people end up focusing on issues like wealth distribution.
these communist posters are trolls right? you do realize this is a conservative board?
>>77872
>logic
lel
>>77882
Couldn't agree more, though I'd say Marx was wrong in a lot of ways that later Marxist theorists corrected. I'm a big fan of EP Thompson and the anti-Stalinists as well as the Frankfurt school.
>>77378
Because the Russians and the Chinese shitted up communism so nobody wants it anymore.
>>77882
>Das Kapital
>still standing
Because politiciens knew how to control the masses and because the matxist leaders got sleazed by ussr abuses (it started with the goulag archipelago)
Then when ussr collapsed, there was a hole capitalists knew how to fill, they started the "globalization", which is a deregulation of the market to erase the state protection on markets.
That globalization created that world competition and now a revolution seems very far, adding that Samuel huntingon "clash of civilization" which turns salaries/workers of all world against each other, i think marxists have a harsh path to take, and they have to unite and infiltrate governments (like trotskists tried in France) to stop the final phase of deregulation (regional unions, tafta and international trade agreements without any elections)
>>77954
>laughing at logic
Wouldn't expect any less from your kind.
>>77882
>but Das Kapital and his speeches still stand
Das Kapital barely made a decent exposure of the mechanics behind 19th century economy, making horrid predictions that were completely crushed before the end of the century, much less explain anything whatsoever about 21st century global capitalism
>>77573
It has to, either with the option that all life ends because humans were too engrossed in their ridiculous economy to actually stop the destruction of their planet or with the option that humans establish a logical, scientific social order that isn't based on exploitation and capital growth (communism).
>>77999
>Not even understanding
I'm saying that's not even good logic, because it's wrong.
>muh silogism
Oh god you guys are really that stupid.
Because the tools for the prole to rise have been made obsolete by artillery and aerial dominance.
By nature, all weapons that can be easily manufactured in run-down conditions are tools of the people made for the secession from oppression and the destruction of the ruling class.
Likewise, all weapons that require the use of complicated facilities and expert knowledge to create are tools of the ruling class to enforce their will on the people who cannot reasonably resist without the help of a benefactor who has its own interests.
with the creation of the atom bomb we've entered a post-revolutionary world. From now on the idea of revolution taking place in any powerful country is nothing more than a pipe-dream. The only battlefield for revolutionaries are the already weak and powerless countries which are ravaged by the aforementioned powerful countries through proxy wars and the arming of its citizenry and fringe groups.
>MFW an American claims that america would rise up against an unfair government.
Small arms are nothing if you can't control the air or lay down bombardments.
>>77787
A dollar is enough to buy a week's worth of food in many places.
>>78024
Yeah, you keep believing that, at least history will keep moving.
>>78003
>making horrid predictions
Didn't read it
>>78040
Do you actually think the US military would mindlessly obey orders to attack its own citizens fighting a just revolution? The desertion rate would be enormous.
>>77668
He was not wrong. His critique of capitalism was accurate, and this is where he gets most praise. It is still very much applicable today. As for his advocation of a communist state? You cannot be wrong for having a political opinion.
>>77848
It's not really an Ayn Randian or even necessarily libertarian position. Inequality isn't inherently bad; equality isn't inherently good.
>>78103
define just revolution
>>78029
>being this dense
Also, you're still defending that stupidity.
>>78111
Nothing is inherently anything, therefore your point is irrelevant if you go that far.
>>78040
>Small arms are nothing if you can't control the air or lay down bombardments.
something something asymmetric warfare.
>>78123
A forcible overthrow of government
>>78103
You are underestimate the idiocy of the armed forces.
>>78051
>oceans being depleted, becoming too acidic to hold life
>cancer everywhere
>the consumption that causes all of this causes petty political domination maneuvers to maintain the right to continue consuming at ever increasing rates
>"e-e-everything's okay"
>>78003
Capital was a critique of classical political economy and its internal contradictions. I think it was a pretty damn good job at that. Notice the Ricardian school came to an end in the 1870s and mainstream economics had to completely reorient itself with the marginalist revolution after Marxs death. I would say that had a lot to do with Marxs influence.
I'm not a Marxist and personally think Thorstein Veblen's analysis of capitalism is the best ever. Neoclassicalists and marxist both ignore empirical reality with their equilibrium analysis and autrians are just kooks with their praxeological approach.
>>78138
race is inherently race.
>>77676
Communism is a fucking meme.
>hurr why doesn't it work
LOOK AT IT.
>>78135
What?
I'm not Marxist, even less a Communist, that's what I've been saying, and you guys are getting busy with being idiotic all around.
>>78103
If the American army was suddenly composed overwhelmingly of conscripts again, than *maybe* that could happen if the USA was embroiled in a war with a bodycount putting WWII to shame or being fought on its own soil.
Professional military are often some of the most proudly right-wing institutions in the entirety of a government. A volunteer force wouldn't hesitate for a moment to crush a violent uprising staged by a bunch of man-bun, granola faggots with AK-47s.
>>78156
communism is social and culture its economic policies are a distraction.
>>78103
Americans have proven time and time again that they can be made to support the interests of those who work against them with nothing more than a smear campaign and some memes.
>>78103
>Do you actually think the US military would mindlessly obey orders to attack its own citizens fighting a just revolution?
US military are brainwashed to do anything they are told, which is why they continue the imperialist wars that are impossible to justify and cause far more harm to Americans than good. But Americans are also brainwashed from birth in the same way.
>>78147
But that means EVERYTHING ends, why would you even need to say it? top kek.
>>78183
Economics are pretty important to a social and cultural movement.
>>78103
They've done it before, they'll do it again.
>>77963
I have to agree with you entirely comrade. Wouldn’t argue that Marxism isn’t without its flaws. Also a fan of Frankfurt school to a certain extent. As well as being a huge fan of Anti-Stalinits and Thompson. Though, I’m not a socialist.
>>77991
See below:
>>78003
Tell me how it feels to not have read a text and still make claims.
>>78200
learn to reading comprehension
>>78208
not really.
>>78156
It must be blissful being this ignorant.
>>78065
implied predictions, not explicit
>>77699
Underrated post.
>>78208
who cares if you want to take my money?
what matters is that your going to distroy my peoples race, morals, culture, religion, family, sex relations in pursuit of some retarded idea of equality.
>>78240
What you describe still is history, like it or not, and such is life.
>>78148
>Capital was a critique of classical political economy and its internal contradictions. I think it was a pretty damn good job at that.
I fully agree.
The thing is that from an economic standpoint it is completely outdated.
>>77912
Says the fucking Marxist.
>>78103
What?
The armed forces is nothing but a bunch of sociopathic mercenaries composed of scum and dregs of society. They don't care about anything but killing and getting paid for it.
>>78249
Anarchist pipedreamer spotted.
>>78224
The labor theory of value was already debunked before Capital was even published. Marx makes ad hoc statements to cleverly hide the missing pieces in his path of argument. He begins his analysis of capitalism in media res with capital firms magically in place. He conceives of capital as machinery/tools and does not account for human capital which has been shown empirically to be far more important than physical capital. Need I go on?
>>78040
Vietnam
Iraq
>>78358
hehehe good one you are so cool
>>78326
Again, I'm sorry you can't think for yourself. I remember living with a mind that reasoned with socially inherited, ideological tribalism. I really am sorry for you and hope you better yourself one day.
>>77378
>Why did the Proletariat fail to rise up and seize power from the bourgeoisie?
Because bourgeoisie make up communist leaderships. It's never poor vs rich. Its rich vs rich using the poor to do their bidding.
Throughout history, this has been the case. Even when the rich express interest in the plight of the poor, they are viewed only as disposable pawns.
>>78347
Don't tell me you actually believe that. You are as much of a caricature as the caricatures of reality that make up your world view.
>>77378
ITT: Retards still clinging to a relic of the Industrial Revolution. You are the economic equivalents to alchemists.
>>77378
Maybe it's because Marx was a crock of shit.
>>77812
>his materialist conception of history is seriously flawed in the sense that it cannot be falsified
THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE, it annoys the fuck out of me. And if you try to falsify it, Oh you're brainwashed, oh you're dirty bourgeois scum, oh you just hate poor people. Nothing could ever be wrong with Marxism because of Marxism. Nothing.
That makes is complete shit.
>>78377
Man, Marxists getting REKT.
>>78404
>le enlightened one faec :^)
I hope you die in the most painful way you can possibly imagine.
It is so amusing to watch you foolish Americans get so mad at the concept of Communism or Marxism, shows how you fools have not developed at all in the past 60 years, and that you let this cunt's lies influence your dense minds so much. Quite so, watching monkeys fight is awfully amusing.
By the way - not a Marxist or a Communist, just someone with an open mind.
>>78224
how exactly have I not read the text with what I said?
>>77812
No fuckin theory of history or any ideology can be falsified numb-nuts.
Math can't be falsified so let's just throw that one out the fuckin door
>>78377
100000/10 well done
>>77378
Because Marx wasn't a fucking prophet. He had an opinion about what would happen and he was wrong.
It hasn't failed, it will come
As society becomes more automated more average people are in competition for fewer jobs. Eventually this will boil over, it may happen in 2016 it may happen in 2100... but it will happen, society is headed towards socialism whether you like it or not. The bourgeoisie took power from the aristocrats and the proletariat/"middle class" will take it from the bourgeoisie
To say something philosophical failed is stupid tee bee ache
>>78404
Seriously, all you pinkos post alike. Like you're all literally the same person. It's really kind of unsettling.
>>77812
But the notion of critique stil makes sense. By exposing the flaws of capitalism it makes a difference. First of all: Capitalism has a spirit that incorporates this critique to sustain itself.
>Falsifiability
You know that Popper was rekt a long time ago:
The notion of falsifiability itself isn't falsifiable.
And ofcourse the Duhem-Quine thesis. You can't test a single statement in isolation, but only against a theorethical framework. This means that verificating or falsifying don't lead to truth, only to coherence.
>>78299
I'm not a gommunist senpai
>>78423
Kill yourself you massive faggot.
>>78377
Go on until you make an accurate claim, yes.
Labour theory not debunked, please elaborate so I can correct your false understanding.
Name one ad hoc example. There are flaws in Marxism, but none of them stem from the “path of argument” rather with the argument itself.
“Magically in place” Really? This simply isn’t true. I honestly don’t know how you even came up with this.
Human “capital” is extensively discussed as well as physical capital.
Basically, have you even read Marx?
>>78377
>The labor theory of value was already debunked
Oh fug, /lit/ won?
>>78347
haha, oh wow.
have you even talked to any active duty soldiers?
>>78460
>pinkos
Grandpa, just stop.
>>78453
Post scarcity society when
>>78473
>things are given value by whatever time was put in
You can spend a hundred years thinking of a reply to this, it'll still be shit
>>78433
>>78467
>>78470
>>78473
>Anon coherently explains why Marx failed.
>g.....go back to /pol/!
>>78423
>just someone with an open mind
Ah, the tried and true cop out of a commie who has blown their own cover.
>>78470
>I can't refute arguments
>I know, he has to be a Nazi!
Tell me comrade, why doesn't human capital matter more than physical capital?
>americans ever defying their overlords
Americans have been dying on foreign soil, fighting wars meant to enrich their masters for a hundred years now.
>>78051
what does "history will keep moving" even fucking mean? and don't reply with some snarky one-liner, I legit don't know what you mean
>>77812
>materialist history is flawed
Right because Jesus and his pixie dust make history move.
>>78377
>The labor theory of value was already debunked before Capital was even published.
That's completely wrong. The LTV was the orthodox theory of the day accepted by Smith, Malthus, Mill, Ricardo and all major theorists. Marxs surplus approach was different however. The marginalist revolution and attack on the LTV didn't happen till the 1870s. The real advantage marginalism had was it introduced calcus into economics.
The empirical validity of labour theories haven’t been completely overturned, give this a read: http://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/eea97.pdf
>>78422
You are a prime example of sycophants to capitalism. I pity your inability to cope with reality and experience individual thought.
>>78427
Das Kapital didn’t make “horrid” predictions and the predictions it made have primarily come true. It’s analysis of 19th century economics takes form primarily in parts I and II, in which organic capitalism is discussed.
>>78496
You're the one still living in 1917 you throwback fossil.
>>78508
>go back to your containment board
>so you can be told to "agree with me or shut up" because you won't agree with me or shut up
the doublespeak is thick and viscous
>>78508
>Anon coherently claims Marx failed without presenting a basic understanding of Marx and his thought and especially not later Marxism
Yes
>>78423
I am open to funding red scare electric bongaloo2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJzV6-wJ3SQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDmdfOrG3D8
>>78508
> coherently
Implying.
>>78430
>Ideology
In that you're correct.
Marxism is an ideology. With as much to justify it as the Austrian School.
>Math can't be falsified
Thats a completely different ballpark.
Anyway, you're technically wrong, go check the Incompleteness theorems
>>78147
>oceans depleting
Fucking hilarious
>>78502
Jesus
http://myweb.lmu.edu/jdevine/notes/Law-of-Value.html
>>78461
>But the notion of critique stil makes sense. By exposing the flaws of capitalism it makes a difference. First of all: Capitalism has a spirit that incorporates this critique to sustain itself.
I agree. I'm not saying Marxism is completely useless. But thats all Marxism has going for it.
>>77378
>the world is now more unequal than ever
And despite the existence of a very rich elite, the average joes and janes lead much better lives than in any previous era.
Wowie zowie
>>77378
>Why did the Proletariat fail to rise up
1) They did, repeatedly, at the national level, and at the transnational level by the maximalists or by pure chance
2) 2nd International voted for war credits
3) 3rd International was objectively counter revolutionary (class interests of the soviet nomenklatura as a capitalist class)
>and seize power from the bourgeoisie?
Their attempts failed, either through internal coup d'etat such as the Bolshevik's substitution of the geographic councils for the workplace councils OR through direct military repression.
>The global revolution should have happened by now, but instead the world is more unequal than ever.
Uh… looks to me, comrade, like the bourgeoisie have managed to find ways to squeeze more absolute and relative surplus value out of people to stave off the declining rate of profit, chiefly through enclosure proletarianisation, though partly through the creation of new commodities in enclosure of substances like air or thought.
>>78453
Pfft.
The only thing that will follow from mass automation is mass genocide. Why the fuck would the people manufacturing the robots give a shit about the now obsolete laborers?
Once there's no need for cannon fodder, the rich will divide the world between each other and get rid of everyone else to make space.
>>78148
>Thorstein Veblen
Veblen GOAT, would emulate.
>>78583
that feel when hollywood jew subverter is jailed.
>>78610
>LA LA LA IF I IGNORE IT IT GOES AWAY LA LA LA
>>78527
It means that there's no such thing as ''the end of history'' as if history was a narrative on how the world went from shit to *your dogma*.
>>78423
McCarthy literally did nothing wrong.
>>78453
>i-it'll come, just wait and see you capitalist shitlords
You commie faggots are just as bad as the bible thumpers waiting for the rapture.
>>78672
The oceans don't simply deplete, and you're making baseless claims.
There also isn't enough data to support ocean acidification yet.
>>77699
DAMN. Marx and Lenin laid low in a single fuckin blow.
>>77378
Revolutions never work and people don't want huge conflict where they could die.
Slow and steady reform is the way. Socialism is based but not revolutionary socialism.
>>78299
I straight up can't wait to do that. Best fuckin day of my life
>>78690
All great empires are like that.
>>78686
Ah, so lying to the public, and lying in the senate about knowing "secret commies" in the government, as well as secret homos, and thus ruining many careers through coercion, was a good practice?
Americans are so uneducated.
>>78653
I'm damn glad I"ll be making those robots.
Godspeed, Our Cyborg Overlords.
>>77378 (OP)
The proletariat thinks they have enough with their social-democrat governments, notice how a big load of communist parties are now just simply backing up a social-democrat party like the CPUSA endorsing the democrats or communist parties in Latin America cheering for their center-left-at-best presidents.
For a communist revolution to happen, or just about any kind of revolution, first you need a country with an extremely unstable political environment, something that contemporary democracy and Keynesian economics, for better or worse, prevent.
I would be really surprised if a country suddenly turned full-Marxist ever again, and even if it does it will probably be a country too geopolitically fucked like India or Chile, with no future for the cause of an international socialist state.
>>78742
That doesn't mean they are not wrong.
>>78408
Lenin was part of the Russian nobility. Need I say more?
>>78467
>Labour theory not debunked, please elaborate so I can correct your false understanding.
The marginalists debunked it. It's essentially a metaphysical superstition and Marx's argument uses it poorly as I will say next.
>Name one ad hoc example. There are flaws in Marxism, but none of them stem from the “path of argument” rather with the argument itself.
Marx makes his acknowledgement of socially necessary labor in an ad hoc fashion so as not to collapse his systematic argument. He sets up temporal categories to be advanced, makes ad hoc statements, goes to the next categories, makes more ad hoc statements, and so on.
>“Magically in place” Really? This simply isn’t true. I honestly don’t know how you even came up with this.
>Human “capital” is extensively discussed as well as physical capital.
Of course I am exaggerating. He says capital is the result of past labor. But this results in infinite regress.
>>78759
>implying they won't build robots that build robots
>>78769
communism is simply nobles vs kings
Liberalism was merchants and nobles vs kings, there has never been a war for the proletariat.
>>78769
At heart the commies believe that people are all fucking dumb and will be exploited anyway, so why not have it be by them?
>>78784
Someone has to build the robots that build robots.
>>78103
>just revolution
goddamn you pinkos would get slaughtered in a civil war
>>77378
I always love how blaise and non-chalant revolutionaries are about taking on the monumental and multivariant task of fighting nature and the very contours of being itself, just all in a days work.
Not only do they not understand the problem, they cannot even comprehend its very magnitude to begin with. And that's why revolution appeals to them.
>Oh but just because some political ideal is really troublesome to implement doesn't mean that its wrong.
Actually, it does.
There's a principle in programming that illustrates this very well; if a certain 'bug' keeps reappearing no matter what you try to eliminate it, that's realities way of telling you that the 'bug' is in fact more essential than you presupposed. The elegant solution is often to turn the bug into a feature, make your system work through it, and thereby dispense with all the pernicious bloated hackjobs you've built up trying to circumvent it.
If youve ever read 'new left' writings like Marcuse or the Frankfurt institute of social research from the early half of the twentieth century, or any old hipster news outlet today (since such is the new mainstream) you would get the impression that 'fascism' is lurking everywhere, like subeterranian seeds that could at any moment bloom into reaction.
In a way, they are exactly correct. What they call(ed) fascism is simply the results of right reason applied in praxis. The new left was the answer to the questions of the old left at the turn of the century; where is the revolution? Why does it not start? Why does it not finish? And the answer became, in so many words: reality itself is a counter-revolutionary. In other words, they reinvented late antiquity gnosticism in modern guise.
The mytheo-poetic essence of leftism can be expressed like so: the only wrong is judging right from wrong. Once you dare to discern better and worse, things such as hierarchy, elitism, or exclusivity, follow naturally.
Do classical economics or Keynesian economics trigger you guys? What about the fact that economics classes brush over planned economies?
>The social science that seeks to describe the factors which determine the production, distribution and consumption of goods and services.
So what happens in a post scarcity robot-labor economy?
>>78840
>There's a principle in programming that illustrates this very well; if a certain 'bug' keeps reappearing no matter what you try to eliminate it, that's realities way of telling you that the 'bug' is in fact more essential than you presupposed. The elegant solution is often to turn the bug into a feature, make your system work through it, and thereby dispense with all the pernicious bloated hackjobs you've built up trying to circumvent it.
That or you fucked that algorithm up deeply and it's best to just scrap it and try again.
>>78846
Planned economies have been thoroughly demonstrated to be shit. It's planned chaos.
There has only been one person who fought for the true proletariat and you killed him, the enemy of the merchant, the king, and the nobles.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/homeless.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K5fkGk4JxI
>>78869
Basic Income and Fertility Control, as well as job assignments for particularly talented people.
All decided by Our Cyborg Overlords.
>>78846
The biggest criticism of planned economies is the fact that markets are somewhat self-regulating and tend to determine prices with much more efficiency than the limited thinking resources of a few technocrats.
Of course that doesn't mean all planning is bad, the debate is where you draw the line. The most successful corporations and nations don't completely lack planning.
>/his/ - Safe Space for Communists
>>78953
Even though they just got BTFO.
>>78609
Yo just because something's been proven logically with sound axioms doesn't mean that it's falsifiable. And I'm not familiar enough with mathematical philosophy to really read Godel, but last time I checked it's him who proved math isn't falsifiable.
>>77378
Humanity is supplanted by its superior children.
Alternately, some subset of humanity hits the transhumanist bootstrap phase and leaves the rest in the dust.
Maybe some blanks are kept around on reservations, just for the fuck of it.
>>78900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Y9P65fGAE
Hitler would of destroyed class.
>>78749
Why do yuropeons hate fun?
>>78461
It's weird to so someone who knows what they're talking about.
>>78972
>just
cmon man you are overstimating their worth
>>79002
If you didn't oppose Hitler you would be united with your Volk knowing no class or ranks, one people.
>>78347
>sociopathic mercenaries composed of scum and dregs of society. They don't care about anything but killing and getting paid for it.
Now this is some wicked edge and delusion
>>78385
oh yeah those two wars we lost
Because Class struggle is bullshit. People naturally compete with one another and sectioning it into arbitrary 'classes' gives the illusion that that society is clearly ordered and confrontational . Also Historical determinism is pretty retarded and cannot be proved. Basically it never happened because the Theory is inaccurate and nothing like reality
>>78891
The social organisms that have existed heretofore, are the ones that have survived the test of history. The very fact of their existence is in itself proof positive of their adaptiveness compared to any number of possible but non-existent alternatives.
Listen to reality.
>>78749
McCarthy was right about everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Dexter_White
>White was accused in 1948 of spying for the Soviet Union, which he adamantly denied, but which was later confirmed by the release of declassified FBI documents related to the interception and decoding of Soviet communications, known as the Venona Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedric_Belfrage
>At the height of McCarthyism, Belfrage was summoned in 1953 to appear before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC).
>In 1995, the decrypted VENONA intercepts—a project between the US and British intelligence services to decipher Soviet wires — were made public. United States intelligence has alleged that Unnamed Codename Number 9 (UNC/9) was Belfrage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Karr
>In 1950, Senator Joseph McCarthy referred to Karr as Drew Pearson’s “KGB controller”.
>After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1992, in the new atmosphere of openness, Soviet investigative journalist Albats published an article in Izvestia quoting documents from KGB archives that Karr was “a competent KGB source” who ‘‘submitted information to the KGB on the technical capabilities of the United States and other capitalist countries.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Coe
>Called before the HUAC (chaired by Congressman Karl Mundt), Coe denied under oath having ever been a member of the CPUSA.
>A recent investigation into the KGB archives claims that files show Coe to have been a Soviet agent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauchlin_Currie
>the United States refused to renew his passport in 1954 due to the McCarthyism atmosphere in Washington, DC.
>He appears in the VENONA cables under the cover name 'PAGE', and in Soviet intelligence archives as 'VIM' and as a source for the Golos and Bentley spy networks.
>>79070
>Lost
Vietnam was a victory, aside from the lack of resolve on behalf of the americans and their government.
Iraq was a victory, but a failure as an occupation. Instead of cleaning house and implementing a real nation-building effort they just came, saw, conquered, then spazzed about before going out because no one wanted to play with them.
>>78768
Wrong is a child's term, nothing more than a fairytale for the incapable and mentally weak.
The reality is that history is enacted or is enforced depending on which side you stand. The United States has simply made the logical and right conclusion that it is better to enact history on others than to have it enforced on itself. I can assure you that a thousand years from now the words "American Empire" will dot the historybooks of every young child along with the Roman Empire and the Third Reich. Can you say the same of other countries in our current times?
>>79067
>Signing up to get paid for traveling half a globe away to kill in the interests of your masters
>Not a sociopathic killer
>>78678
You do know that only neo-liberals believe in this "end of history" nonsense.
>>78846
Commies used planning
Capitalist corporations use targets
What's the difference? They both are a planned amount for a period that will be evaluated after that period and adjusted accordingly.
The problem with targeting/planning has been the same in capitalist & communist society: unrealistic schedules, pressure & sanctions.
>>79111
true equality will never exist. better to have a system where those that are born unequal, can lift themselves up to a better position, either through work or luck.
>>78749
>Americans are so uneducated.
Regurgitating outdated "red scare" "mccarthyism was alarmist BS" propaganda and calling other people uneducated.
It's amazing to find people like this on a history board.
West: Workers won workers rights in a lot of nations, and even in shitholes where they lost(Brittani, USA) the wage levels went from bad to reasonable.
Also the increased automation and safety rules meant mangled children in work stopped happening, and then nobody cared anymore.
>>79143
They *kind of* believe history has already ended, but almost every human being alive believes that history will eventually end.
I'm not talking only Fukuyama, I'm talking about Christianism, Kant, Hegel, etc.
>>79117
What?
I'm just saying, half of these "persistent bugs" are just people trying to "force" some algorithm that makes no sense, and they'd be better of reevaluating and researching instead of just going with it. That's reserved for when you really have no other alternative and reworking to fit the problem in the solution won't turn your code into an Orky code.
>>78299
>who cares if you want to take my money?
The people living in poverty and can't afford the basics to sustain life care.
>>77991
A tl:dr version would read
>The system works somehow like this, i gathered data
>If this shit keeps on going
>Things will go rad
And for theoretical social structures thats pretty decent.
>>78932
>markets are somewhat self-regulating
jesus
Because Marx was wrong.
>>79133
>Wrong is a child's term, nothing more than a fairytale for the incapable and mentally weak
Then why is so hard to think that the armed forces will obey the government that paid them and kill some random people who are trying to make a revolution? They are mercenaries after all, they do what they are being paid for.
>>77378
Why didn't everyone just become Tiger Woods or become A list celebrities?
>>79123
you imagine us prosecuting unamerican people sweet jesus.
Because Marx was wrong and Hegel was right.
>>79285
First of all, having the US military actually operate inside the US against civilian targets would be a massive shitstorm.
>inb4 BUT DEY GON COVER IT UP
Its hard to keep secrets secret theses days.
>>79279
Any intelligent human being knows this.
Why this thread is still up and OP hasn't been given a 3-day timeout I do not know.
>>79201
no one is like that, and I'm as poor as can be.
>>79187
oh yeah that shit.
I'm of the opinion that after communism is achieved, people will find something else to kill each other about and some other way to organize society. But I'm a Buddhist first and a communist second. Everything dies, even communism.
>>79123
>mfw I took a class about American culture and my lesbian atheist socialist professor spent most of her lectures saying that anti-Communist sentiments in the US were baseless and the nuclear threat was a myth
>>78453
>As society becomes more automated more average people are in competition for fewer jobs.
Why do you think welfare schemes are the minimum needed for a western civilization?
Because it turns out the Marxist Revolution will only come if
1. You can't get a job and have no income
2. You have work, and its really shit, and all the people you interact with can't get the ends to met either
Post Scarcity will be approached by unemployment going over 30%, and then keep on going. And it doesn't collapse economically
So long the states keeps welfare up and running, it won't collapse either.
>>79298
Because only talented people should be abble to become millionaires!
>>77378
>Why did the Proletariat fail to rise up and seize power from the bourgeoisie?
Humans by nature are fickle and greedy shits. Ask me what happens when you attempt to fight nature.
>>78840
>>78891
>>79198
As a programmer, that shit happens only as a matter of practicality and deadlines and not as part of a greater truth. In other words, you were too lazy/short on time to get things really right. Not a good way to vouch for your ideas, honestly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm
At their core good algorithms don't get bugs. That's the fault of the guy who has to use it applying it incorrectly.
Find me a:
Sorting algorithm that is used but has bugs
Graph search that has bugs
Furthermore, that kind of thing generally only happens on large bodies of work that aren't organized well and are written like shit.
>implying people want communism
The Proletariat isn't interested in equality, they're interested in elevating themselves to higher status.
The vast, vast majority of people don't see someone driving a luxury car and think "Why should he have a much nicer car than me?", they think "Oh boy I wish I had a car like that".
People living in post-scarcity don't want to rise up against the system, they want to rise up within it.
People don't want to be equal, they want to be better than everyone else.
Sorry Marxists, but there is absolutely zero appetite for revolution, communism or any of that stuff.
The Proletariat aren't interested in Marx or Lenin, they're interested in the Kardashians and the next iPhone. You can wish they weren't all you want, but they are.
>>78932
>efficiency
>The market mechanism is loosely efficient. But the idea that efficiency is the main virtue of free markets is wrong. Competition itself is highly inefficient. In my home town, I can buy food from about eight different places; I’m sure this system could be much more ‘efficient’ if Waitrose, M&S and Lidl were forcibly merged into one huge ‘Great Grocery Hall of The People No. 1306’. I am equally confident that after a few initial years of success, the shop would be terrible. […] The missing metric here is semi-random variation. Truly free markets trade efficiency for a costly process of market-tested innovation heavily reliant on dumb luck. The reason this inefficient process is necessary is that, though we pretend otherwise, no one knows anything about anything: most of the achievements of consumer capitalism were never planned; they are explicable only in retrospect, if at all.
>>78423
While the anti-commie propaganda in the US could get really ridiculous you must put it into perspective, consider the fact that the soviets would fund leftist parties and groups everywhere in order to further its interests, also compare it to the kind of treatment that a dissident would receive in any socialist country of the time.
>>79350
Why would they have to cover it up?
Kill the dissenters and the rest will fall in line.
That's how it worked literally since the dawn of humanity.
>>79380
Yup, exactly.
That's basics on history, but it goes deeper that just ''killing each other'', history is not just about conflict, but about what stays the same as well.
Also, I'm a Buddhist too, although I'm not a communist.
>>79406
But if they're a marxist, don't they want it?
>>77748
The value of one dollar has also decreased during that time, and there are several billion more people as well, most of them being in poor countries, so if anything poverty as increased quite markedly.
>>79041
>knowing no class or ranks
Except y'know, all those classes and ranks that existed in Nazi society and Nazi organisations like the SS
>>78708
also apparently communism, the utopian society of middle school intellectuals everywhere, is the only form of governance that can possibly address environmental concerns
>>79133
>wrong is a fairytale
words of a true psychopath, folks. even an-caps and fascists believe in right and wrong.
>>79441
>But if they're a marxist, don't they want it?
Do you realise how few Marxists there are in the world? If Marxists were a species of animal, they'd be at the top of the endangered species list.
Marxism as a major political ideology has been out of fashion for decades, and it isn't appealing enough in post-scarcity to make a comeback.
>>79440
oh wow, what sect? I'm Theravada of Ajahn Chah's lineage
>>79507
>We're in post scarcity
Dude what
>>79507
The shit normies say.
>>79495
>implying there will be warfare
The government only has to use the magical word "terrorist" and the doublethink will do the rest of the job.
The public will turn against the dissenters and the revolution will die without public support.
>>79002
It's funny, technically the German Reich still lives on, as recognized by the high court, because they never signed an offical peace treaty.
>>79441
>But if they're a marxist, don't they want it?
They probably think they do, but how many Marxists do you know that actually live by Marxist standards?
If you don't live as cheaply as humanly possible, donating all of your extra wealth and time to the cause, you're not practicing what you preach.
If you buy luxury goods that you don't need while others go without the essentials, which people do in every country in the world, then you're not practicing what you preach.
I would estimate that upwards of 99% of Marxists are just keyboard warriors who would hate actually living in the system they advocate.
The stereotype of "Marxists" sitting in Starbucks on their MacBooks does exist for a reason.
>>79453
Those are ranks and achievements, not classes
And that's even assuming a revolutionary movement wouldn't be strangled in infancy.
The prominent figures of the would be revolution will be revealed through the massive information network and quietly assassinated in their bedrooms.
>>79604
Yeah and I'm a sovereign citizen under nautical jurisdiction
>>79598
>implying anyone trusts American media today
>>79649
No its actually a story about it, but you don't seem interested anyways.
>>79662
If nobody trusts the media, how come the public supported the Iraq war?
>>77378
Because the working class was seduced by electronic entertainment. Bread and circuses, basically.
Without electricity, the proletariat revolution is inevitable, which is why deindustrialization is so important.
Any communist worth his salt must preach enviromentalism.
>>77378
because marx was wrong and capitalism brought more people out of missery than any other economic model.
>>79673
Because Muh 9/11 Muh terrorism.
I doubt you'd find that support now.
>>79680
By definition, Marx was not wrong.
>>79608
I think you're confusing Marxism, the historical theory that advocates nothing regarding personal behavior, with Christianity, the religion that advocates people doing all the things you mention.
>>78564
>You are a prime example of sycophants to capitalism. I pity your inability to cope with reality and experience individual thought.
So says the communist. Which is about collectivism as well as a group mentalities/economics.
>>79704
>deflections
Kek.
>>79673
Arguably, the Iraq War was the turning point at which the public started to distrust the media. The popularity of Trump and Sanders is a symptom of that, especially Trump as even right-wing media hates him yet he's still polling obscenely high support.
>>79692
How do you define 'Marx,' 'was,' 'not,' and 'wrong' in such a way that the conjunction of those words is true by definition?
>>79692
>as defined by Marx
shove your a million times debunked surplus value up your rectum you commie.
>>79688
They'd only have to arrange another bombing.
>>79449
It clearly says it's in 1987 dollars
>>79123
>Be overzealous and paranoid
>You where still right
>>79767
>Communism has never been debunked and in fact cannot be debunked.
Surplus value was, which is basically thebasis for Marxian theory of exploitation.
>>79730
It's funny, so was the Vietnam war.
Nobody trusts the media, and for good reason.
A. They are all owned by 6 corperations.
B. They are censored by the USFG by grants and XOs
C. Jews
>>79673
>how come the public supported the Iraq war
They didn't?
>>79704
The point is that very few, if any, "Marxists" are actively engaged in agitating for revolution beyond posting about it online and sucking each other's dicks at pointless rallies that no one cares about.
They're too busy enjoying the fruits of a system that they claim to hate, while doing absolutely nothing to A.) create a revolution or movement and B.) alleviate the suffering of those oppressed by said system in the interim period between now and the revolution that they've been claiming is just around the corner for over a century
>>77378
It is inevitable really. Already the resentment and anger at the effects of unequal wealth distribution is rising. And when more and more industries make the change from human capital to mechanized labor, and the unemployment rates skyrocket the millions of people without jobs, or money will be forced to do something. Trying to predict an exact date will never be precise, or able to factor in unseen developments but the inevitability of global revolution is all but guaranteed.
>>79764
>>He doesn't think that governments violating due process isn't a hot scoop that reporters would love to pick up, even if it's just something like RT
Hot scoops don't pay as much as the government does. And anything that's not paid by the government is a "russian propaganda network".
>>He didn't realize that the public eventually turned around on that one
Yeah, well, too late.
The revolution will be long and dead when the public realizes they've been had yet again. There'll be some hot air about the whole ordeal but nothing will ultimately change.
>>79805
If surplus value has been debunked, then why is it the basis for Kenysianism?
>>79767
>Communism has never been debunked and in fact cannot be debunked.
Even if that were true it would mean it's unfalsifiable AKA bullshit.
>>79784
Woops, didn't notice that, though my point still stands on the increase in population.
>>79814
So the public didn't support the Iraq war, but the government did it anyway?
The public is powerless is what you're saying?
>>77832
Not everyone can afford to be not poor.
A dollar a day may be the median where he is.
>>79816
what do you expect from a greedy self serving people?
