Not from 'Murica, what extent is creationism actually still taught in school?
I live in the deep south and none of my teachers have ever mentioned it in any context but a mocking one.
>>773734
Not at all in public education on the west coast at least
That teacher would be fired right away
>>773734
It's not on any official state curricula, that doesn't stop it from being taught in private schools, or, on occasion, in some extreme backwaters.
>>773745
That's funny considering I live in Ohio, and my high school biology teacher and math teacher were quick to say carbon dating was inaccurate when they got around to teaching it.
In general, it can depend on the individual teacher. They can go either way as long as they meet the testing quota.
I went to an evangelical school in Australia, and they taught evolution in biology because it was part of the curriculum, but they implied that it was just as wrong as lamarckism, while in the religion class they taught literal YEC, with noahs worldwide flood influencing geology even. (This was in the final two years of high school).
>>773734
I went to high school in Oklahoma and was taught evolution.
It's completely overblown. Although many of our school textbooks are reviewed by Texans which does lead to some pretty awful history textbooks.
>>773750
In my district in Washington state about ten years ago, our biology teacher had include stuff about creationism as a "teach the controversy" mandate from the district. He didn't directly teach it, but had to keep mentioning that some part of evolutionary theory were controversial to some people, and that the evidence for evolution didn't exclude the possibility of intelligent design.
Granted, I lived in a somewhat conservative/religious part of the state (very close to a military base and lots of religious people), but it didn't seem like it was uncommon. Districts have a lot of say in what gets taught, and even then, individual teachers can kind of get away with teaching whatever they want.
>>773734
Ever since the Tennessee's scope monkeys trail, no public school is allow to teach creationism. Any teacher could and will be fired if they mention creationism except in sense of mockery.
>>773786
Yeah, I shoulda just said California
I forgot how conservative most of Oregon and Washington are, and plus I never went to school there. I just assumed it would be the same
That's pretty interesting though
>>773786
Why are militaries always (or so often) bastions of conservatism?
The only time i can think of creationism being mentioned is when my highschool biology teacher from the south subtly implied that dna was created by a supreme intelligence
Went to public school in Dallas, Texas. Graduated high school in 2004.
We were taught in my science classes that:
>the Earth is 5,000 years old
>humans were created by Jesus
>evolution is a "demonic" lie
>dinosaurs never existed
>Adam and Eve existed
>Garden of Eden existed
>Satan is real
>angels and demons are real
>earthquakes, tornadoes, and hurricanes are caused by God
>>773814
I'm pretty sure this is illegal.
>>773823
Unlike the other underaged anons ITT, I went to school at a time and place when this was the norm in Texas.
It might be a bit more toned down now. Not sure.
>>773814
I can top that: in social studies, we were taught that history began in 1 AD.
>>773831
>I went to school at a time and place when this was the norm in Texas.
In 2004? Hasn't this been illegal since the 20s? I remember 2004 I really don't remember things being that bad.
Did you live in a really small town?
>>773803
Several reasons
>More likely to attract members of less educated classes
>Militaries tend to be tradition based organizations
>Conservative ideals promote sense of duty
>Liberal ideals discourage violence
>Leadership is conservative and this leaks into lower ranks
>>773814
>dinosaurs never existed
I don't even think creationists think this. What is this dinosaur never existed meme that keeps appearing these days?
>>773859
Yes, we know dinosaurs and humans lived side by side in the garden of eden. (there were no meat eaters untill after the fall)
Read up on Ken Ham's work
>>773859
Some creationists think it, it's their way of rationalizing away the evidence for evolution presented by fossils. Though yeah, most creationists just claim that all dinosaurs lived at the same time as man and got killed by the great flood. Which is why large herbivorous sharp tooth bipedal reptiles were predominately mentioned in Genesis, and they all died cause they were too big to fit on the Ark, yes, even the ones no larger than a chicken.
>>773849
>>Liberal ideals discourage violence
Communism (which, granted, isn't liberal, but far left) is basically all about "slaughter the class enemy" though and was probably conservative's most vicious opponent for a long time.
>>773878
He actually claimed their teeth were used for eating coconuts.
>>773891
Don't they state that those dinosaurs fit in the Ark in the form of an egg or baby? Thinking about it it wouldn't be the worst of theories to justify their presence after the flood, per se. I'm sure the word dinosaur was a recent invention though and they claim dragons are the dinosaurs of the past. I don't know, but "dinosaurs don exits" sounds a little strange. But then again there are many who know little, regardless of what is presented.
>>773912
>Don't they state that those dinosaurs fit in the Ark in the form of an egg or baby?
I don't know, I've heard dozens of tale regarding the existence of dinosaurs, their lack of mention in the Bible, and their lack of existence in the modern day, from creationists and apologists. There's no actually definitive narrative on it from Christians outside of the Catholic Church, which accepts evolution as a valid theory.
>>773799
Yeah, outside of Seattle and a few other small cities Washington is mostly conservative. Sometimes very much so. A lot of people I went to school with were evangelicals who got super religious instead of rebelling as teenagers. Youthgroups were very popular.
I actually respected that teacher a lot for teaching that stuff the way he did. He taught it as neutrally as possible, and made it his goal to make sure none of his students knew his personal feelings on the matter. It might have been shitty science, but it was probably the best way to handle a class like that with at least half of the class being fundamentalist Christians full of youthful religious zeal that would have called him a lying heathen. His neutrality even seemed to get a few students to think evolution (guided or not) seemed like a reasonable explanation. So, as stupid as it was, it probably did some good.
>>773952
Yeah, lots of groups have different ways to rationalize that stuff. My favorite is a group that claims all of God's creations are perfect and he would never let one die, so dinosaurs still exist in some places in the planet, they're just rare and we don't know exactly where.
>>773952
Well, they are mentioned in the Bible as different creatures, but their names are presented differently, surely because the King James Bible most people use was published in 1611 and not anywhere after the 1800s, when the word "dinosaur" was made. The book of Job presents an interesting case of the creatures "behemoth" and "leviathan", which apparently has descriptions of certain dinosaur-like creatures. Modernists like to say they are a hippo and a Nile crocodile, respectively. The word dragon appears many times in the Bible as well.
Lack of evidence of their existence in the modern day may be due to variety of factors, but studies such as cryptozoology of various mysterious creatures such as the Loch Ness monsters or Ropen may indicate the creatures are existent but rare. Who knows?
Again, these are things I have gathered from the justifications. I don't find it to be entirely conclusive but at the same time I don't believe it can be entirely dismissed either.
They don't teach it in public schools.
>>773734
Non-existent. Every 5-10 years, some school district in the south will try to put a disclaimer on textbooks saying it's just a theory, or not fire a teacher who teaches it, but they always get their ass handed to them in the supreme court and it's back to normal within a year.
>>773984
>The book of Job presents an interesting case of the creatures "behemoth" and "leviathan", which apparently has descriptions of certain dinosaur-like creatures. Modernists like to say they are a hippo and a Nile crocodile, respectively. The word dragon appears many times in the Bible as well.
Or the might just be your run of the mill mythical beasts. That seems like the simplest explanation.
>>773955
>His neutrality even seemed to get a few students to think evolution (guided or not) seemed like a reasonable explanation. So, as stupid as it was, it probably did some good.
One of the problems with the idea of teaching only evolution in schools and treating creationism as a joke (even if it is) is that it alienates students who are being taught creationism at home and evolution in school, and not wanting to alienate their families, many will dig in and think that the school is trying to trick them for some reason, and just continues the cycle of competing beliefs that lead to the contreversy we have now with religious minorities trying to teach ID in schools and being really partisan about it.
Really I think schools need to teach more skepticism. Teach students how to be skeptical, present both ideas, the evidence that supports them, and the history behind them, and let students kind of make up their own minds, even if they don't trust the more scientifically accurate theory, they'll gain the ability to hopefully question established doctrine, and learn some critical thinking. I wouldn't suggest teaching this in a science class, but I think we need some kind of mandatory class in school that teaches kids critical thinking skills.
>>774006
Pretty much. At the time, I thought it was stupid, but now I realize that it was a good way of teaching something a lot of students in the school wouldn't have dismissed out of hand.
>Really I think schools need to teach more skepticism.
I totally agree with this. I think it's ridiculous that I never learned critical thinking in school. Even though sciences classes were taught, and I took fairly high-level ones, the subject of critical thinking never really came up. I had to learn about it all on my own after I graduated, and that's just a terrible failure on the part of my school district. If schools mandated education in skepticism and critical thinking, then a lot of this stuff definitely wouldn't be an issue.
>>773998
Job 40 and 41 leads up to God speaking to Job presenting him mundane creatures that grow stronger in magnitude as He speaks. Just as in Chinese zodiac you have 11 mundane animals and a dragon, and how many cultures, despite their differences, all have some story involving a dragon. I know one thing for certain: no matter how ridiculous a story sounds, they all come from a certain origin, just mostly embellished and such for dramatic effect or whatever. I don't know.
Are they actually just run of the mill mythical beasts? Maybe, but I wouldn't be quick to dismiss them though. They have reasons to believe their claims, and to be honest, it isn't entirely off. The claim isn't conclusive but there are some merits behind the creationist point of view. Both ideas ought to be taught so one can decide what to believe in.
>>774006
>Really I think schools need to teach more skepticism. Teach students how to be skeptical
Not the guy you responded to but I completely agree. Unfortunately I don't think that will ever happen on a large scale. The school system is a prime opportunity to get to impressionable minds and give them ideas most of them will accept as true for the rest of their lives. Teachers have no wiggle room for the most part and can possibly get fired if they go against the grain too much
>>774048
>how many cultures, despite their differences, all have some story involving a dragon.
Classifying them all as dragons is an after-the-fact organization by Europeans. The dragons of different cultures are wildly different, and basically the only constant feature is being a giant lizard. Considering most cultures coexist with reptiles, it's not really surprising.
No need to postulate surviving dinosaurs.
>>774060
Unfortunately that's true. Schooling in general was mostly made to make us think the same way. I know, I took biology major in my university years and all those classes on evolution was nothing but a huge echo chamber on why Darwin was right and creationists were downright idiots who knew not what they were talking about. The professor said something like "What is the alternative to evolution? On how life came on earth? Science fiction right?" Honestly though, I would be fine if there were conclusive evidence of evolution as stated in schools, but the more I took those classes the more I realised that was not the case. I only really started to have a breathing room OUT of school when I started thinking for myself and really, I still don't understand what I was being "taught". If you want to promote critical thinking, I really believe just showing two sides of anything and letting the students decide for themselves would be nice. Same goes for history classes: what are people taught about, I don't know, Nazi Germany? I guess we cannot have that though since we would start questioning the establishment.
>>774048
>>774085
Also important to note is the fact that we did not just recently start finding dinosaur fossils, people have probably been discovering them on accident for thousands of years, and because they lacked the knowledge about what it is they are looking at, they probably assumed that such a creature must still exist somewhere, hence the legends.
>>774085
It is almost always giant lizards though, not giant gerbils which is somewhat interesting though. Their traits are different, but some parts are similar. It isn't conclusive, but still is a valid reason for belief in surviving dinosaurs for those who wish to believe so. Take of it as you will. I'm not sure what to make of giants though, maybe Nephilim?
>>773814
>things that never happened
>>774091
Apparently Chinese "dragon bones" used for medicinal purposes were actually dinosaur bones? I wonder if that's true.
>>774089
>I guess we cannot have that though since we would start questioning the establishment.
This is really the fundamental issue. Mass education, while useful for our citizenship and nation, is ultimately an institution of the establishment, and usually used to instill a particular narrative that the current establishment wants to enforce. This is why American history classes for example tend to be take such a pro-American view on history. It's unfortunate, and I don't really see a way to convince people to change it.
>>774102
It's possible, it's also possible they the people selling said "dragon bones" might have been lying and using the bones of some other creature, you can never really know.
Not at all. It's been illegal to teach creationism in school since the supreme court ruled in the 1987 court case Edwards v. Aguillard that teaching creationism was illegal as it uses the power of the strictly secular government to advance a specifically religious agenda. Creationists then attempted to rebrand their bullshit as 'intelligent design' and had their shit rekt again in 2005 in the case Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.
These two rulings are in accordance with precedent set down in Lemon v. Kurtzman which established the metrics that courts use to determine the constitutionality of government actions related to religion.
>>774098
Most every culture on earth has werewolf legends (or were-whatever-the-big-local-predator-is). I wouldn't begin to wonder if werewolves exist.
I really think if there were any great dinosaurs roaming around on earth today, or even in the recent past, we'd have some evidence at this point.
>>773761
Yeah, in Indiana I actually had a genetics teacher just sort of skip over evolution entirely with a "Let's-just-avoid-getting-into-that-controversy" handwave.
still no teachers openly teaching creationism, though
>>774153
>I really think if there were any great dinosaurs roaming around on earth today, or even in the recent past, we'd have some evidence at this point.
This really. It's really interesting how in this age when everyone almost everywhere has a high-def video camera in their pocket, the reports of strange creatures in the mist, UFOs, and ghosts have declined massively. If these things were common or even existed, we'd know about them today, you can't tell me that with the billions of people around the world that own smart phones, not one of them would have captured massive reptilian creature on their phones and plastered that shit all over the internet.
>>774165
>Yeah, in Indiana I actually had a genetics teacher just sort of skip over evolution entirely with a "Let's-just-avoid-getting-into-that-controversy" handwave.
How the fuck do you even do that? Isn't genetic change kind of a key part of teaching genetics?
>>774153
Everything is embellished as so. Local predators may mean there are some other undiscovered creatures in the area we may not know of. Giant lizards, as lizards do not stop growing provided there is enough oxygen in the environment, seems like a sound reason and a good start for dinosaurs existence with mankind. Historical sightings of "dragon encounters" and the fables behind it are interesting to look at. What we hear in the western world where we pre-suppose that evolution is correct and dinosaurs died off 65 millions years ago or whatever shouldn't be an established fact if there are other ideas that may have some reasoning. Due to how the education system works, we just don't hear about the other side as much, or how other places with their mysterious creatures may be something we have not discovered before. I won't say it's flat out dinosaurs now, but I can't say that it isn't either. Who knows?
I feel it is arrogant to declare we know all there is to this world. The beauty behind it is the mystery of this vast world and how much we don't know.
>>774188
Not a conspiracy guy, but there have been many who sighted strange creatures of various origins, but they are almost always underrepresented or discredited so nobody gets a chance to look into it and believe all such phenomena are hoaxes.
>>774195
You would think so. We did indeed discuss mutation and so forth but just avoided ever referring to larger-scale change by focusing mostly on molecular stuff rather than population genetics.
>>773734
I went to a catholic school in Kansas and they laughed at creationism
>>774238
That just seems kind of silly, all evolution is at the core, is genetic mutations that happen to benefit an organism and thus propagate. Seems kind of pointless to talk about mutation with out actually discussing it's implications to an organism at large and how it affects that organism in it's environment. I really interested in the contents of that class now.
>>773734
Never mentioned in school.
>>774251
Ironically Catholics in the US are often some of the more secular Christian denominations. Kind of helps that the Vatican has been supporting standing scientific knowledge in the last few decade, probably trying to rid them selves of the popular, somewhat incorrect, notion that the medieval Catholic Church was responsible for the loss of knowledge in the Dark Ages, and went around burning ALL the books and condemning scientists to death.
>>774251
>iimplying catholics are Christians
>>773734
As someone who lives in the Atlanta area I can say that it's pretty much gone. We were taught evolution, dinosaurs, Big Bang theory etc. from day one and relgion was never brought up from teachers. Hell, even religious institutions didn't parrot it that much, IIRC my synagogue had sermons about "Evoltion in the Torah" or some shit like that.
>>773895
Yeah but its no coincidence that FBI hippie NARCS like Tim Leary started preaching nonviolence
Communism lost its teeth in america long ago
>>773782
Wasn't there a big high schooler protest at books that tried to deny or hide the bad part of US history the way Japan does with theirs?
>>773814
I graduated high school in 2004 in Alabama and the biology teacher had to actually argue down creationist students in class. They later argued with him because on tests they refused to answer any evolution questions and he failed them. Jesus that man was a trooper.
>>773734
None. It's just one of those silly memes about the US.
To avoid offending people though you will find teachers who will walk a fine line of simply not ruling out creationism. Had a bio-teacher mention something along the lines of people trying to merge the adam/eve story with dinosours. Seems silly, but sometimes it's what has to be done so backwoods parents dont throw a big fucking fit.
>>773998
Yeah but the Hippo & Whale (crocodile is never what ive heard) is a common theory for most people that study the bible, religious and athiest
>>774293
>implying Protestants are even humans
>>774423
>implying you wouldn't eat the shit straight of the pope's asshole if he asked you to
>>774099
This
Back when I was in school in North Carolina they had a bible class. I never took it so that's all I can say.
Modern creationists conflate evolution which has been observed with abiogenesis which has not. Thats the biggest thing that pisses me off as someone who holds a BS in Biology.
Went to Catholic School in New York. It was never mentioned.
>>773734
>creationism
Man and Woman from clay or delusion or metaphor, clay as part of the Earth, and humans was made from previous dwellers of the Earth being now clay.
But in case spirits (and other mystic types) are, spirits hypothetical can do influence to live creatures, but it not proven. For example if some a slylybutt spirit infect a random arab with polyodontia, it can did affect to all offspring of that arab.
>>775654
You christcucks have the best fan fiction tier bullshit. I swear.
>>775609
>Evolution
>Observed.
Lelno. How the christ could you observe millions of years worth of changes>
Which is why it retains the title "Theory of Evolution." It is a hypothesize with shitloads of solid evidence going for it but as we cannot observe it directly, remains so.
I lived in NJ for a time, my biology teacher went through evolution then laughed at creationism
>>773761
Carbon dating is inaccurate though.
That's why scientists use dozens of other methods instead.
I went to a Catholic high school in New England.
Creationism was confined to theology classes and infrequent jokes by biology and anatomy teachers.
Most teachers at the school were Christian, but we learned the same science and math as everyone else.
>>773734
Private christian schools only.
Everyone else gets force fed government propaganda.
>>775609
Correct. Evolution has no answer for the origin of the universe, the origin of the planet, the origin of life, the origin of consciousness, cannot explain the fine tuning of the universe for our life, and has no clue where we go when we die. Neither does it ever show one kind of animal turning into another.
In fact, it's completely and utterly useless.
>>775844
Which are also wildly inaccurate, even when dating the exact same sample.
OP here, encouraging feedback. Cheers!
Penis
>>774089
But Darwin was generally correct and creationists are idiots.
But you point about questioning authority does have some minor merit.
Though it comes from a stupid place.
>>775685
You are just wrong all over.
I went to school in the rural south and we got lectures on Darwin like everybody else. One retard walked out of class that day and she got suspended.
