OOOOH SHIT NIGGA IT'S NIHILISM
Forming actual opinions? Defending you worldview? LOL FUCK THAT NOISE! Now with NIHILISM you can appear all cool above-it-all and clever without lifting a fucking finger! Just stick that thumb up your bumhole and scoff at anyone who calls you out on your edgy faggotry like the insufferable little fartface that you are!
Mad someone called out your spooks?
You know, you can value shit without it having to be some sort of absolute, universal truth.
anyone that unironically calls himself a nihilist should be put to death
If anything, Nietzsche was anti-nihilist.
>They both start with N and they're german (lol lebowski)
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>>740639
Anyone who doesn't believe that the universe has intrinsic meaning (or doesn't believe that moral truths exist) is a nihilist. It's not an ideology in and of itself, but it's still a pretty common label that can be applied accurately to countless ideologies and individuals.
>>740648
>>740667
I think he was parroting Nietzsche's sentiment in his own spergy way.
Nietzsche was an anti-nihilist you worthless cuckold. That's what it means to be an immoralist
>>740678
>Anyone who doesn't believe that the universe has intrinsic meaning (or doesn't believe that moral truths exist) is a nihilist.
Not necessarily. Existentialists aren't nihilists and they are much more common.
Nihilism is for edgelord faggots but Nietzche's entire ouvre is about overcoming nihilism you dipshit
>>740701
I disagree. While they strive to create their own meaning, the fact is, at the core of their ideology, they still believe the universe is itself without meaning (well, most modern ones, I think Kierkegaard would be an exception for instance). I personally think that qualifies them as nihilists. It's not the whole of their ideology, but it is a component.
>>740632
Nietzsche was not nihilist
He's just upset people aren't grateful
>>740718
Existentialists maintain that meaning has to be created. They consider such meaning to be perfectly valid. Nihilists maintain that meaning does not and can never exist.
>>740732
are all nihilists autists?
>>740732
Then maybe I just don't get it. If an existentialist creates meaning, isn't that just a matter of having an opinion then? Doesn't the universe still sit beyond your own mind as the same meaningless mass a hardcore nihilist would proclaim it to be?
>>740737
No more than any other ideology is all autists.
>>740757
dude believing in something makes you autistic lmao
go outside
>>740980
That's not what I said, you goddamn chucklefuck.
Mods...
>>741053
MODS ARE DEAD
>>740732
Nihilism has two definitions, my good silly buddy
What this thread really needs is music.
http://www.nietzschemus.org/portfolio/video-1/
Let's all sit back and appreciate some music.
>>740754
No because you now have now generated meaning. Existentialism requires a "leap of faith" like Christianity does. That's why "Also sprach Zarathustra" by Strauss starts with a soft, weak and solitary line and grows through the song to an overpowering, redemptive and determined conclusion.
>>740632
>babby's first existential crisis
make sure to buckle up and keep your hands and feet in the vehicle
>>741396
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRQrnysTI1o
Music people, music.
>>740632
If you want to believe life has a definite meaning than prove it does. Oh you can't? Sucks.
>>741441
Hmm, it sounds to me like either an impossible task, or the creation of a house of cards doomed to crumple and leave you worse off for the attempt.
I think I'll stick with Stirner and value things as I see fit.
>>740632
Is there a solid argument against final causality existing?
>>741720
He didn't refute final causality whatsoever - he's a generation late for that - he just noticed the logical consequence of rejecting it. That was the is-ought problem.
>>741452
Woah you are very intelligent. Truly you've shown me the light.
>>741554
A lot of early Greek thought rejected the idea that the universe was working towards some fixed goal based on the idea that the universe is very old and hasn't really done anything to indicate it or it would have probably already reached it
This was back when the thinking that the universe was a few thousand years old. When you have our now current knowledge that universe basically spent 99% of it's life span crashing random rocks into each other, and that life itself forming is basically a crapshoot, it's an even bigger absurdity.
>>741789
To add to this. The idea that if the universe had some sort of pre-set purpose it certaintly didn't involve humans and earth.
This sort of thinking dyed with Coperincus, the Earth and thus humans are not the center of the universe. Hell it's not even the only planet capable of harboring life. Giordano Bruno was killed for asserting the idea that there are other worlds with life because it threatened the very tennents of the Aquinian world. Now that we know exactly how minor the earth and humans compared to the rest of cosmos it amplifies it even more.
That funny image meme of Jesus standing next to the milky way galaxy and telling some guy on a tiny planet he shouldn't masterbate....that's basically what the final causality idea of the Christian variety is saying, except it's totally serious.
>>741752
With such amazing counter-arguments I can't believe anyone out there is still a nihilist. Why don't you post a picture of someone wearing a silly hit while you're at it? Perhaps a trilby.
>>741789
>A lot of early Greek thought rejected the idea that the universe was working towards some fixed goal based on the idea that the universe is very old and hasn't really done anything to indicate it or it would have probably already reached it
This doesn't make much sense to me as coming to some general one time end isn't relevant whatsoever to final causality and the argument assumes heavily about what the "goal" could be to even make a point.
>>741835
>The idea that if the universe had some sort of pre-set purpose it certaintly didn't involve humans and earth.
Why not?
>This sort of thinking dyed with Coperincus, the Earth and thus humans are not the center of the universe
No it didn't, it became rejected due to Descartes and Bacon. And it has nothing to do with humanity as the center of the universe whatsoever. In fact, the general idea seems to view us as things amongst the larger universe.
>Giordano Bruno was killed for asserting the idea that there are other worlds with life because it threatened the very tennents of the Aquinian world.
This is a myth. And Nicholas of Cusa originated the idea before him.
>That funny image meme of Jesus standing next to the milky way galaxy and telling some guy on a tiny planet he shouldn't masterbate....that's basically what the final causality idea of the Christian variety is saying, except it's totally serious.
But why shouldn't things have purpose despite their size relative to the universe? Why does size correlate to importance to you?
>>741106
>Mod is dead
>God is dead
It all makes sense...
>>742728
>Why does size correlate to importance to you?
By comparison, it would be like saying the entire purpose of the earths' existence would be to create one particular molecule of olivine, except even more minor than that. The size isn't the issue so much as the relative scales.
>>742867
>the relative scales
We are something that may very well be wholly unique out of the entire universe. I think the scale is fine, it's the stage for the grand Human comedy.
>>742817
>God is dead
>Mod is dead
>Moot is dead
You have to go deeper
>>740632
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
>>742867
>By comparison, it would be like saying the entire purpose of the earths' existence would be to create one particular molecule of olivine, except even more minor than that.
It honestly wouldn't. You're making a statement that everything works towards the goal of something, the view on masturbation comes from the claim that everything has their own goal/purpose. These are two different things no matter what you think of them. The comparison is not sound.
>The size isn't the issue so much as the relative scales.
?
People flaming nihilism are just as autistic as someone claiming to be a nihilist
The idea that there's a goal for humanity seems patently fucking absurd when you consider that not only are we not the only sapient hominid to exist on this planet, but we were even once very close to joining the several other sapient hominids that have gone extinct. This doesn't mean there is no goal for humanity, but if there is, it's sure being achieved in one fuckng idiotic, roundabout way when you claim that it's the doing of an omnipotent, perfect being.
That said, there is no reason to believe there is a goal for humanity because there is no indicator that there is a goal for humanity. Just a lot of thinkers who asserted it without evidence, thus it can be safely dismissed with evidence.
>>740632
>using the word nihilist outside of any context whereby the nihilism can be there designated
Nihilism isn't a self-subsistent body of thought or theory but a descriptive term used to characterize philosophies of negation. This is Nietzsche's use, it's alike "skepticism" which is nothing out of context but is more of an attitude to thoughts or a style of thought.
why does there HAVE to be a meaning
i dun get id
>>740754
>isn't that just a matter of having an opinion then?
Welcome to philosophy kid
>>744157
I don't get it either. Some people just seem to find the notion that they're nothing more than a short lived pile of atoms to be unbearable.
Remember, Nietzsche had the death of God announced by an anguished madman.
>>742766
>babbys first existentialist
>DUDE SHOOT ARABS ON THE BEACH LMAO
>Nietzsche
>nihilist
Confirmed for being a turbo pleb
>>744197
>we're made of something
>therefore it's all meaningless
Quite the leap there. Where's your evidence?
>>744138
the purpose is life itself, to grow and evolve you utter autist
>>744318
Youve obviously never read Camus
>>744393
B U R D E N O F P R O O F
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>>744408
That's not a purpose, it's just something life does.
>>744780
No, sir. The burden of proof is on you.
>atoms are intrinsically meaningless
Prove it.
>>744138
Nietzsche doesn't imply that humanity has a goal, merely that humanity as a whole is moving inexorably in certain evolutionary direction and that certain ideologies either impede this movement or endanger the existence of humanity altogether. Zarathustra offers mankind a choice, to struggle towards the next higher state, the Ubermensch, or perish. People who resign to perishing are the nihilists, who have lost their initial reasons to remain stagnant and who have lost sight of humanity's progression from worm to ape to man to whatever comes next. This is why Nietzsche always describes man as not a goal, but a bridge, and describes man as a tight-rope walker between two towers named animal and god, with a joker carelessly jumping up and down on the rope and doing tricks. It is an allegory for how the hopeless and the ignorant can end everything out of mere carelessness, like, ironically, Adam barely lifting his finger to meet God's.
>>740639
>anyone who unironically calls himself a nihilist should be put through puberty
Fixed.
>>748144
My opinion:
Meaning is what is meant by an information giver to an information receiver. The existence of meaning is therefore dependent on creatures capable of processing information. Intrinsic meaning is an oxymoron.
>>740632
>>749124
No, of course atoms don't express concepts, but that's exactly the point: they're the medium in which rationality and meaning emerges. The nonrational origins of consciousness doesn't invalidate anything
There is literally nothing wrong with being a nihilist.
>>749525
Spoken like a true ebin nihilist
>>749525
>There is literally nothing
ftfy
>>748144
There's no evidence for them possessing intrinsic meaning. Your move.
>>749545
Prove to me, right now, that anything has meaning.
>edgy! edgy!
Not an argument son.
>>749623
>he still thinks atoms are supposed to be intrinsically meaningful themselves for the structures they comprise to have intrinsic meaning
>>749658
>dude my position is the null hypothesis because atoms or something lmao
>>749661
You literally just reversed your argument
>You think atoms are intrinsically meaningless!
>He still thinks atoms are supposed to be intrinsically meaningful!
>>749671
No, my position is that nothing has meaning because everything is pre-determined and was created for no reason.
>>749673
No retard, the point is atoms are meaning neutral, they don't prove or disprove shit
>>749661
Are you a fucking shitposter? You asked me to demonstrate atoms lack intrinsic meaning, I pointed out there is no evidence that they possess intrinsic meaning, now I'll just expand that argument: there is no evidence that those greater structures they comprise possess intrinsic meaning either.
Before you dare even think the words "prove it" I'll point out you can't prove negatives.
>>749680
What the fuck am I reading
>>749698
Meaning can only exist in conscious minds and since the universe has parameters set for the potential evolution of conscious minds that's a pretty big deal you fucking sperg Jesus Christ
>>749710
Oh, it's you again. The guy who fucking freaks out and calls everyone spergs if they don't agree with your assertion that the universe being capable of supporting conscious minds means that it's purpose, in a truly hilarious fashion, since your shit-fits resemble strongly the tantrums autistic kids are known for when people disagree with them.
Ready to grow up and stop throwing around accusations of mental disorder at people that disagree with you? It's not fair to the people with those disorders, and it doesn't further discussion.
>>749731
Bro, rationality does not magically pop out of an absolutely irrational universe. You don't get this. You do not fucking get it and you never will. And if you do get it, you've yet to supply a better reason how/why than "nuh-uh". Like I'm talking to fucking kindergarteners
>>749739
>Bro, rationality does not magically pop out of an absolutely irrational universe.
Except that time it did, you know in this one. :^)
>>749752
dude these alphabet blocks just spontaneously arranged themselves into Shakespeare over millions of years don't think about it too much bro nothing means anything lmao
>>749710
Thanks for admitting meaning is a creation of the mind and has no independent existence.
I guess the universe was just sitting with its thumb up its ass for those 10 billion years before life, and by your logic, meaning existed.
>>749755
And Shakespeare only has meaning to us. There's no natural law of Hamlet that demands that the universe must produce Hamlet, or else a big black hole swallows up everything
>>749765
That guy is gonna be laughing when physicists finally prove the Hamlet constant, just you wait and see!
>we are not the point
>HURR THERE CAN'T BE ANY POINT THEN DURR
Maybe the universe just wants to creates loads and loads of life the same way the human body wants to develop from a fetus to a fully grown adult, the fact our planet is just a little cell in the whole organism doesn't mean there is no point to it jesus shit you people
>>749785
No one said there can't be a point.
>>740635
Your life is a spook. I think you know what to do.
>>740635
>muh spooks
