Well, /his/?
>>734223
>since we cannot presume that there is a God
I do that though. What now Calvin?
Create our own morals and values.
quit being an edgelord calvin
There are objective values but there is no generic unspecified value of life. Human life holds a value as a rarity for example. This is one specific value. Other values like importance would be subjective. It isn't hard problem. People should better define value and not speak about it as a broad sense of the world.
Manpower is a finite resource, and while life is not valuable, people are, due to the happiness they grant other people.
>>734238
>Human life holds a value as a rarity for example
look at that pic again, m80
Even if value is something we attribute to life ourselves, does that make value any less real? In the same way, there is no single "meaning of life" besides what meaning we can give to our own. If value is an attribute created, then it is still an attribute.
>>734251
It is objectively rare. Importance of rarity is subjective but value is here.
>>734223
>I disagree. Human life does not possess an inherent value-
I'm gonna stop you there. I never said it did, and it doesn't have to have an inherent value for us to consider it precious or for us to value it.
Consider the word "value." Value is always given, or assigned. It isn't detected by any sort of instrument.
Therefore the recommendation that we value human life can stand on its own.
>>734223
There is a God whether you presume one or not.
I notice people who say they are evolved animals are yet against me hunting, killing, and eating them and their families. Why?
"Human life is rare" is only one of the arguments on why human life is valuable. Also, what God has to do with this? And why can't you presume His existence?
>>734281
On top of that, in what way does a god's existence give value to a human life?
>>734278
If there is God then nothing holds value. God can just destroy anything at whim or create everything from nothing. Nothing in existence matter because God exist and can rewrite reality infinity times in one second.
>>734278
Because animals hate it when you hunt, kill and eat them and their families, doofus
>>734245
>people are, due to the happiness they grant other peopl
Well, this would imply that suffering (defined as the antonym to happiness) possesses a negative value. Which again, we can only deduct from our own definition of value.
>>734266
>Even if value is something we attribute to life ourselves, does that make value any less real?
Well, you are getting about the possible person who could define the value of human life as non-existent; since we have no way of telling which humanly attributed value is "correct" (and there is, of course, no "correct value), this method of defining value is worthless.
>If value is an attribute created, then it is still an attribute.
Again, this would work only ifall humans attributed the same value to human life. Since there could be a person who does not value human life at all, this isn't working.
>>734298
They tell me it's "wrong" to hunt, kill, and eat them.
What do you imagine that's based on?
>>734301
Society, which has historically been reinforced by religions varying from middle eastern stoners to Indian karma peddlers
>>734288
Humans were made in God's image.
If you want to talk value, you have to consider what the price paid for a thing to be.
The price God paid for humanity was His own life, His own blood, His own death.
Humans are precious to God. Hence satan's attacks on God, and your value to God, by saying you are random accidents, evolved from bacteria.
>>734295
If there is a God, and there is, then whatever God says is valuable, is valuable.
>>734322
So, religion tells men that it's wrong to hunt, kill, and eat human beings.
Thank God we have religion, then, huh.
>>734308
What is the practical outcome of value?
When a nation of millions decide that green pieces of paper can be exchanged for stuff, you can consistently exchange them for stuff. This is called an "economy."
When a lone nut robs a bank and declares he didn't do nuffin because he thinks the value of money is "worthless," he gets put in jail.
>>734329
>and there is
[Citation needed]
>>734335
Yes, religion has been extremely useful in shaping human society and I imagine it will continue to be very useful. I'm not sure why you're adopting a sarcastic tone, then, huh.
>>734327
>His own life, His own blood, His own death.
What makes those valuable? What was the price paid for those?
>>734336
Yes but again, money only works because everybody (or at least a vast majority) agrees upon it's value.
If a large number of people agreed that money is worthless, it would become worthless. Just like human life.
Therefore, this is insufficient to determine the value of human life.
>>734358
No, that's exactly what determines the value of human life. If a vast majority agrees that human life (regardless of other characteristics) is worthless, then you get genocide, slavery, terrorism. These things have historically happened.
If a vast majority agrees that human life is is valuable, you get laws, humanitarian aid, charity. One cannot happen without the other.
>>734278
>There is a God whether you presume one or not.
*tips habit*
>I notice people who say they are evolved animals are yet against me hunting, killing, and eating them and their families. Why?
Why does believing you are an animal imply you want to hunted, killed and eaten? No animal wishes to be hunted and eaten, and many humans choose not to hunt and eat animals. Why do you deny your place as part of the animal kingdom?
>billions of years of evolution, billions of years of silence all conspiring to create life and consciousnesses, so the system might know itself as itself
>lmao bro that's just like your opinion man
>dude like the tree in my backyard doesn't tell me stealing is wrong I guess everything is meaningless lmao
>the objective existence of consciousness that exists to contrive meaning and order out if its chaotic surroundings doesn't mean anything
>literally the second a little bit of the universe wakes up and knows itself as itself, it yearns for meaning, I guess that doesn't mean anything
God I fucking hate this argument. Dead matter is a prelude to the real show. Tip on back to plebbit
>>734375
>If a vast majority agrees that human life (regardless of other characteristics) is worthless, then you get genocide, slavery, terrorism. These things have historically happened.
>If a vast majority agrees that human life is is valuable, you get laws, humanitarian aid, charity. One cannot happen without the other.
Well, I agree with this. But this is still not a sufficient way to determine human value. I understand that the value of human life is determined by these things. And that's exactly why we need to come up with another way to do so. Because whenever you resort to ad populum, bad things happen.
Genocides happpen because of this theoretical person who does not value human life. That's why this method is insufficient.
>>734375
Slavers didn't agree human life was worthless you dipshit, they had to dehumanize their slaves first precisely because they believed human life was valuable. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about
>>734343
Genesis 1:1
>>734350
Because if we left life to the evolutionists, we'd be cannibals.
>>734357
How do you measure the price of the blood of God?
How many universes is one drop worth?
>>734386
Because I am a human being, made in the image of God, and animals are not.
Why do you live your life like an animal?
>>734442
You know evolution doesn't inherently go against the idea of God, right?
>>734393
>all conspiring to create life and consciousness
I hope you realize that the universe isn't a conscious being, and so couldn't "conspire" to create us. Either way, humans came about by pure chance. Everything we do is dictated by chemical patterns in our brains and chance events in the world around us. How could there be any objective meaning when all there is to existence is material things?
>>734442
Or, now think about this, the morals intertwined with society would continue exactly as they do now.
>>734464
>it's made of something
>therefore it's meaningless
Citation fucking needed
>>734442
Most mammals aren't any more habitually cannibalistic than humans are
Everything that we give value, every maxim and reason can lossible make for ourselves to act is reliant on first and foremost our humanity. Our humanity hence has infinite worth, as it is what generates all other worth.
>>734223
I value myself
Other people are like me
I am not a special snowflake
ergo other people are important too
>>734547
You are aware that this Feuerbachian humanism has been completely annihilated by plenty of people afterwards right?
>>734503
Almost as if they knew better than evolutionists that there is a God, Who made them.
>>734440
>the bible contains even a tiny bit of truth
[Citation needed]
>>734586
>animals believe in skydaddy
>this is what Christfags on 4chan actually believe
Kekekekek
>>734586
Surely that contradicts your assertion that God did not make animals in his image, which is why animals are allegedly cannibals
>>734223
Human life has value based on the free market
>>734572
Are you aware that I was referring to Kant and that saying "Oh but that argument is BTFO!" Without ever telling what the counterarguments were or even who made them is the equivalent of shitposting?
>>734566
This guy gets it. If we accept other people are rational agents just like us we can find a grounding for morality.
>>734223
P2 is right. Even if human lives are extremely rare, and even if rareness has an inherent value, human lives are are easy to replicate as long as the total amount doesn't drop below a very small number.
Therefore, unless we lived in a world where human extinction was actually in the horizon, the whole premise is worthless and rareness can't assign intrinsic value to individual human lives.
>>734442
I really hope your genes don't spread.
>>734227
Good.
>>734566
That wouldn't be inherent value, though. It'd just be the value you're arbitrarily assigning to life based on the value you arbitrarily assign to yourself.
