I don't understand why this war started.
Please explain?
>>729313
Serbia sent a diplomatic insult(death of ferdinand) and then AH decleared war.
>>729321
But from what I understand no one knew whether or not Princip had any affiliation with the Serb kingdom?
people in the Balkans are seriously retarded
>>729313
some prince got killed, but yea there was a lot of tension
the austro hungarian empire should've wiped out all of the degenarete slavs because they were not strong enough white people to be invaded by sand dollars unlike austria
I guess to refine my question a little bit:
Why did Germany want a major land war so badly? It doesn't make sense tbqh
>>729313
Serbia refused Austrian Ultimatum
Austria used it as casus belli to war.
>>729347
they didn't
>>729347
>Why did Germany want a major land war so badly?
They didn't.
They "had" to go to war, but they didn't want to.
>>729356
>They "had" to go to war
They didn't need to support Austria on their little hissy fit. And they didn't need to invade Belgium and give the UK the excuse they needed either.
>>729368
>being an oathbreaker
>>729313
Desperate to prove themselves to the whole world, the germans frantically searched for a reason to wage a war they could win. The death of some irrelevent prince in some backwater country with a vague connection to the "German" emperor was all they needed to start war.
>>729313
>A Bosniak individual kills some dude
>Austria uses it as an excuse to attack Serbia because why the fuck not
>Germany sees this and decides to attack Russia, France, Luxembourg and Belgium in a row because YOLO
>>729359
Hi eternal anglo.
>Because Germany had the stupid notion they could win in a war against almost literally all of Europe.
literally 2 countries and it had a massive IF on it through the whole existence.
Here's a recap for you.
>Hey, the French hate us and Wilhelm just ditched the Russians from the alliance!
>Ok, now the French and the Russians are friends with each other.
>Ok, now they are building up their armies.
>If they decide to wage war against us, we're fucked, so we need to prepare.
>This Schlieffen guy has a plan how we might be able to win instead of sitting here taking it up the ass. But it becomes moot if we let the Russians and the French build up too long.
>>729313
To make a long story as short as possible, since the Franco-Prussian War Europe had been a powderkeg. When Ferdinand was shot by a Serb nationalist, Austria-Hungary issued an ultimatum to Serbia. Serbia didn't agree, and AH declared war on Serbia. Russia mobilized to protect Serbia and AH and Germany reciprocated. After Russia refused to stop supporting Serbia, Germany declared war on Russia. When France didn't clearly remain neutral, Germany invaded Luxembourg and France declared war on them. To outflank the French, the Germans invaded Belgium, whose neutrality was protected by Britain, bringing both into the war.
>>729373
Germans never cared about that.
>>729368
>They didn't need to support Austria on their little hissy fit.
Yes they did, because if Austria was defeated by Russia Germany would be all alone surrounded by hostile powers.
>And they didn't need to invade Belgium and give the UK the excuse they needed either.
>You should break your promise of defending another country to prevent war!
>But if we refuse to do the same, it's still your fault!
>>729388
>Look at my picture where all context is removed.
>>729393
>We can't possibly win a war against these two countries, what should we do?
>Clearly we should fight a war against both of them!
>>729401
Scrap of paper that didn't obligate anyone to intervene militarily if someone broke the agreement.
I'll set the stage first, then get to the details in my next post.
>Europe sees the horrors of the Napoleonic Wars and wishes to avert another European War
>the Concert of Europe is agreed on to diplomatically resolve any major conflicts before they escalate to war
>a balance of power is established, no one empire can completely dominate another on the continent.
>a few decades later there's a gamechanger
>Italy and Germany both become united, upsetting the balance of power after Germany steamrolls France in 1870.
>Germany seeks to become more powerful by obtaining colonies and alliances, and are resisted almost every step of the way by Britain and France
>German leaders feel as if they are being denied their place in the sun, and find allies in Austria-Hungary and Italy in the event war comes, forming the Triple Alliance.
>In return, France and Russia sign an alliance, creating Germany's nightmare of a 2 front war.
>this reestablishes balance until the war starts.
>>729394
>When France didn't clearly remain neutral, Germany invaded Luxembourg and France declared war on them
Why would you lie?
Germany tried hard to have France declare war on them (they invaded Luxembourg, they raided French villages...etc) but it didnt work
So Germany stopped giving a shit about international opinion and declared war on France themselves.
After that they completly stopped to care about their image so they also invaded Belgium and committed countless atrocities there (Rape of Belgium).
>>729415
>We can't possibly win a war against these two countries, what should we do?
But they could.
>Clearly we should fight a war against both of them!
You are implying France and Russia didn't want a war against Germany.
>>729421
This is actually accurate.
>>729433
They didn't.
>>729321
More like discovered spy casus belli
Why were Germans so uninterested in neutrality agreements anyway?
Did they really think the British would just say it was all fine?
>>729433
>But they could.
History shows it couldn't.
>You are implying France and Russia didn't want a war against Germany.
I am not, but they were not the ones to fire first.
>>729433
>You are implying France and Russia didn't want a war against Germany.
France didn't.
>>729423
>they raided French villages...etc
Without authorization from commanding officers.
>After that they completly stopped to care about their image so they also invaded Belgium
Strategical necessity. It's still violation of neutrality and sucks for the Belgians, but it wasn't as you pictured "fuck it let's invade everyone" situation.
>>729433
>You are implying France and Russia didn't want a war against Germany.
Russia only wanted a war with A-H
They knew Germany was strong and didnt want them in
France was ruled by a bunch of pacifists
When the crisis started, they withdrew their army several kms from the border in order to calm Germany and they closed their eyes on many provocations by Germany (invasion of Luxembourg, raid on a French town..)
Germany still declared war on them
>>729423
In a sense, yes. France withdrew her troops from the border but mobilized. A clear move to buy time. Considering that the entire German mobilization plan hinged on a fast strike on Paris. I don't understand why you've gone on rambling about international images or the Rape of Belgium. I'm talking direct casus belli.
>>729359
>Maybe they should've not lost a war then.
They crushed Serbia, so the point was made. 60% of Serbia's male population died.
>>729466
It was a pre-emptive act of defense by Germany's visionary leaders. France would have attacked anyway somewhere in the next 20 years because they coulnd't let go of AL in their mind.
So France is to blame, not Germany.
>>729479
And their Empire collapsed.
Sure was worth it.
>>729421
>fast forward to 1914
>checks and balances on Europe are fading ever since Russia lost to Japan and was rocked by Revolution.
>wars in the Balkans and the continued decline of the Ottoman empire are making people nervous on who fills the power vacuum.
>Serbia gains independence and nationalist groups demand that Austria-Hungary give up Slavic land to the Serbs.
>Archduke Franz Ferdinand takes a trip to Sarajevo, in an attempt to cool down tensions with the Serbs.
>that backfires, an assassin kills Ferdinand.
>A-H scrambles on how to respond to this
>Austria wants war, Hungary wants a diplomatic solution
>Hungary agrees to support war on the condition that A-H does not annex Serbian land after the conflict, Austria accepts.
>Russia steps in to defend the Serbs, saying they will retaliate if A-H goes to war.
>A-H leaders meet with Kaiser Wilhelm for advice.
>Kaiser says if they want war, they have Germany's support, but on condition that they make their decision quick to not give the allies time to mobilize.
>This "Blank Check" emboldens Austria and they send a rigged ultimatum, with conditions that are unacceptable to Serbia.
>Serbia rejects
>A-H declares war on Serbia
>Russia declares war on A-H
>Germany declares war on Russia
>Italy withdraws from the triple alliance, declares neutrality.
>France declares war on Germany and A-H
>Germany invades Belgium on the way to invading France
>Britain declares war on Germany for invading Belgium
>1 million people die in a month.
>>729472
>but mobilized
well wouldn't anyone if a huge rival next door was giving you threatening ultimatums and embarked on an invasion plan?
>>729347
>>729313
Germany knew she was at a severely disadvantaged position because her diplomacy had been very week following Bismark. They believed (correctly) that if the war became a slugging match they would win. So thereally main military plan was to invade France before Russia could mobilize, which they believed (incorrectly) would take forever to happen, but that once it did the Russiansame would be able to send an overwhelming force. So in the July Crisis Austria decided that they needed to nip Serbia in the bud before it got to the point of pulling it's empire apart. Serbia at this time was an ally of Russia who saw it as a useful satelite. Russia also felt that it's prestige was in danger after the jappo Russo war of 1905. So when it became clear Austria was going to go to war with the Serbs Russia decided to start secretly mobilizing, but once Germany found out it began to freak because if Russia fully mobilized, it believed that it would be helpless. So Germany gave Russia an ultimatem and when Russia refused it declared war on Russia and it's ally France. Also for Great Britain it was technically allies with France and Russia but there is a good chance they don't declare war if Germany doesn't invade through Belgium which was significantly less well defended and fortified that the French German border. You can see why if you look at a map. It is very easy to mount an invasion of great Britain from the Belgium coast. But this only touches the surface there is really much more going on that can't be properly described in a post.
>>729482
>Germany's visionary leaders.
Such fantastic leaders they lost the war.
Sure worked out for them in the end.
>>729487
Pretty good sum
>>729487
>France declares war on Germany
What?
>>729482
>because they coulnd't let go of AL in their mind
the rest of your dumb post aside, is that why they had elected a firmly antiwar and antirevanchist pacifist socialist government?
>>729482
>So France is to blame, not Germany.
According to you, France was bad in their intentions while Germany was bad in their acts
How can you come to the deduction that France is to blame but not Germany?
At most it would be both of them, and even that seem biased in favor of Germany
You're supposed to judge acts, not what you perceive as someone's intention
>>729487
>France declares war on Germany
Factually wrong. Germany declared war on France.
>>729510
alas the depths of germanboo stupidity leave us in the dark when it comes to things such as these
>>729440
>Acknowledge the geopolitical facts that the Russian and French military buildup and the tension in Europe will lead to a war.
>Wanting war
pick one.
>Both Wilhelm II and the Army leadership agreed that if a war were necessary it were best launched soon.
Similair plans and discussions were made by everyone.
>Germany never had to give Austria the ok to invade Serbia, thus avoiding Russia to enter the conflict.
Austria may have gone to war against Serbia regardless of German support. Hötzendorf had proposed it for years.
>>729510
Germaboos are way more delusional than what you posted, it wasn't that hard to believe it was serious.
>>729510
Well, the exaggeration wasnt strong enough for us to understand
You just sounded like the average Germanboo expressing his opinion in all seriousness
>>729526
If Germany hadn't give Austria the Blanque Cheque and they still declared war on Serbia, then this discussion would be different.
But Germany knew what Austria declaring war on Serbia would lead to, and they still supported it.
>>729488
I would. If I was Germany, I'd also try to go to war as quickly as possible before the French could truly mobilize and mount a strong defensive. You're only looking at this through one perspective.
>>729518
My mistake.
>>729446
Izvolsky and Sazonov would like to have a word with you.
Educate yourselves, idiots
https://youtu.be/4ztOV2wrrkY?t=203
>>729442
Belgium was still independent
>>729544
Unfortunatly, this misconception is pretty popular
During the Cold War, the West felt necessary to rehabilitate Germany as an ally rather than an enemy
As their behavior in WW2 couldnt be excused because too recent and muh 6 millions, it was decided to go full revisionist on their heavy role in instigating WW1 and to make them pass for innocent instead
But of course, when you explain that Germany attacked Russia, France, Luxembourg and Belgium in a row, it's hard to make them look like poor innocent angels and to claim that everyone is to be blamed
So Germany apologists created the meme of "France declared war on Germany".
Germany gambled on a pre-emptive strike against France before the full weight of the Russian war machine could be wrought.
A long war was not a possibility for Schlieffen. Germany needed a fast and decisive victory. Moltke knew this and so sought to flank the French through Belgium rather than just directly assaulting heavy French defensive fortifications.
>>729466
>Russia only wanted a war with A-H
And Turkey.
>They knew Germany was strong and didnt want them in
They also knew Germany would be involved and wanted them out of the picture too.
>France was ruled by a bunch of pacifists
And yet France actively built up its army in greater magnitude than even Germany did the pre war years.
Also who is Georges Clemencau
>>729518
>People just can't accept that Germany wasn't a poor little innocent angel
Nobody is claiming that.
>>729541
>But Germany knew what Austria declaring war on Serbia would lead to, and they still supported it.
Yes, because they were facing two options:
>A)Not supporting AH. AH still declares war on Serbia, gets wrecked by Russia and is dissolved or greatly weakened->Russia gains the Balkans to its sphere and is greatly empowered. Germany is now without allies in the whole of Europe.
>B)Supporting AH. AH goes to war, Russia goes to war, Germany goes to war, France goes to war.
>Germany is at war, is facing the same Europe as in A), but is in stronger position than without AH and has better chances of surviving the war on top.
Strategically option B) was the better, because Germanys position would only weaken in the future due to the Russian military buildup.
>>729575
> when you explain that Germany attacked Russia, France, Luxembourg and Belgium in a row
due to it being the only way for them to survive a war....
>>729325
Princip was supposedly supplied with weapons by the Serbians. I'm not sure if it actually happened or not, but there it is.
>>729661
Yes. Starting a war is the best way to survive that war you just started.
Germans sure are tactical geniuses.
Europe got Serbed.
>>729668
the Black hand was a Serbian terrorist group, but the Serbian government did not have any part in the assassination.
>>729673
>Yes. Starting a war is the best way to survive that war you just started.
The war had already begun before Germany attacked anyone.
>>729347
>Russia is mordernizing (namely, their railway system, which meant they could mobilize much faster from far away places, I think there was a German estimative that said Russia would be too much for them to handle by 1917)
>Russia is allied to France, mortal enemy of Germany
>Germany thought they could zerg rush the French in two weeks like in 1870 and then move their men to the Eastern Front to fight the Russians
>>729701
>Germany thought they could zerg rush the French in two weeks like in 1870
Except it took them 9 months to beat France in 1871
You're confusing with 1940
>>729701
>>Germany thought they could zerg rush the French in two weeks
Make that 8 weeks.
>>729730
Yes because muh russian colossus
every answer is valid except for the u s a.
My opinions? Britain.
Seriously, everytime Britain got involved on continential Europe there was a bloodbath. Uk shouldnt have even put Belgium in their protection and meddle with european politics.
>>729742
But that would have been against British strategic interests.
You can't ask the British to withdraw from doing X and allow other countries to do it at the same time.
Serbia caused WW I and thus WW II, not Germany.
Glad NATO bombed the fuck out of them and they're a complete shithole now. Revenge for Germany.
>>729487
This is probably the best, simple explanation.
>>729313
it started because every warmongering nation in europe had been arming itself for at least 20 years and they wanted to test their "toys" ... franz-ferdinand was nothing more than an excuse to start a war... if it hadn't been franz ferdinand, then maybe a year later there would've been war between france with russian support and england with german mercs again...
>>729421
>a balance of power is established, no one empire can completely dominate another on the continent.
That's pretty much Europe since the WRE fell, no?
>>729685
>Serbian government did not have any part in the assassination
AH didn't know that and jumped on conclusion that Black Hand was organized by Serbia. And it is believed Serbian goverment had some information about planed assassination.
>>730193
They never mentioned Black Hand in the ultimatum, they talked about Narodna Odbrana, similar shit but iirc was directly tied with the Serbian goverment
Germany knew a war with Russia would with certainty involve France
And let's say Germany was a powerlevel of 15
France was 10 and Russia 12 or at least this was how Germany saw them
Possible to take individually but not when both at the same time
Russia would be powerlevel 15 or larger in a few years once they modernize their army, becoming too strong for Germany
To avoid two-front war, Germany needs to beat France and then take on Russia before Russia modernizes and the Franco-Russo alliance becomes stronger than the Central Powers
Make a to the minute-schedule on how to invade and defeat France and transport all these millions of troops, guns and stuff to the east for show down with Russia within 900 hours before Russia mobilizes and invades eastern Germany
But you need to strike first, can't wait for both to mobilize and declare war on you, then you're fighting a two-front war
Invade Belgium because slugging through France's forts is too slow
Why would Britain get involved over a piece of paper signed a century ago on the side of the enemy they've had for at least 500 years?
Rape Belgium
Suddenly more than half the planet's landmass is against you
Almost win anyway
>>730299
>Almost
Could they have won if they signed a status quo ante bellum with Russia in 1915?
>>730318
Germany had over 1.5 million soldiers on the eastern front
With all those troops and the Austrian forces they could have forced through the trenches or started offensives in Italy into France or down south into MENA
What I don't get is why Kaiser Wilhelm wanted war against his own Kin he is offspring of Queen Victoria
>>729842
it contains outright falsehoods, it was Germany who declared war on France, not vice versa
>>730299
>Almost win
Is a synonym for "lose".
>>732203
Because all his relatives bullied him for being a nerd
He was the literal laughing stock of the royal families of Europe
>>732203
Wilhelm didn't want war in the first place. When he read the Serbian reply to the AH ultimatum he thought it was a tremendous diplomatic triumph and assumed AH would accept it. When they didn't he feverishly lobbied to his cousin Nicolas to hold off mobilization because he knew it would force Germany to mobilize in turn. While Wilhelm is NOMINALLY the head of his country, all the biggest decisions were really made by the people actually running the government, the foreign office, and the military. Wilhelm's biggest contributions towards war were his diplomatic gaffes (Kruger Telegram, Daily Telegraph Interview), and his insistence of a naval build-up.
>>732249
>all the biggest decisions were really made by the people actually running the government
This does not get stressed enough. Both Germany and Austria at the time had more than just shades of being military juntas. The emperors might have been in charge on paper but you basically had people like Moltke calling a lot of the shots. And Moltke was this close to being a cartoonish villain bent on WAR WAR WAR!!! (this book is fantastic btw, http://www.cambridge.org/il/academic/subjects/history/twentieth-century-european-history/helmuth-von-moltke-and-origins-first-world-war - and a review - http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/199)
>Be Germany
>Invade France through Lelgium
>Get declared Satan by the Entente
>Anglo-French Entente does literally the same to Greece during the war and straight up occupies half the country
>Greece doesnt have the nutsack to fight of the invaders like even L*lgium did
M-muh plucky Belgium
Bullshit
>>732256
>Germany just shades of being military juntas
I think that's quite a bit of an overstatement. Germany was a constitutional monarchy with elected representatives, a parliament who made the laws, and a professional diplomatic corp. The Chancellors Bulow and Hollweg both had considerably more power during their tenure in both the operations of government and matters like foreign relations than Von Moltke.
>>732289
remind us again of the ww1 rape of greece or the part where the belgian govt invited germans to come or the part where belgium had ultimately sided with germany
ITT Serb this, Bosniak that
And yet the guy considered himself a Yugoslav
its pretty funny how its widely accepted even outside of 4chin "the seeeerbs, its their fault"
to this day we dont know for sure who was behind princip
the serbian government? or the germans? or the austrians?
the investigation which went through right after the incident met difficulties
whats for sure is the german empire not only guaranteed A-H but actively encouraged it through its ambassadors and the austrian elite welcomed a possible conflict (balkan ambitions)
>>732309
> the part where the belgian govt invited germans
Greece never invited the allies.
