Watching A&E's War and Peace and wanting to talk about Russia's role in the war of 1805. I know Nappy gets owned at the end but what was Russia's purpose for getting involved? What was the big battles? Where can i research more about this?
>>575332
Just hit wikipedia and look into sources.
Also, The Cambridge History on Russia, check the volume which covers the Napoleonic Wars.
>>575332
Russia was very insecure about its place within Europe (they were upto WW1, arguably still are). Getting involved brought prestige and recognition 'as a European country' that every Emperor since Peter The Great craved.
>>575332
Russia was the central counter-revolutionary power, it meant to crush the French republic and later the empire.
Nappy gets owned in 1814, War of 1805 is Russia getting owned
Pretty much at that point everybody was afraid of Napoleon and tried to attacked him whenever they perceived weakness
>>575332
It was the point at which Russia moved from a bunch of inbred monarchy type bourgeoisie, to a more intelligentsia type liberal bourgeoisie. It almost resulted in something beautiful during WWI, but their refusal to make peace quickly led to revolution and USSR.
France almost spread the liberal virus to Russia, and it almost beat the commie virus. What a world it could have been, with a liberal China, Africa and South America. How the Cold War could have looked.
>>576570
> it meant to crush the French republic and later the empire.
this was not set in stone though, Alexander supposedly admired Napoleon and had liberal aspirations himself till he went full conservatard. His predecessor Tsar Paul openly confessed to admiring the French revolution. The nobles had him kill though because he alienated their lot by making it mandatory (after Catherine banned it) to work in the state service and seizing lands. He wasn't motivated by revolutionary ideas necessarily in doing this though...
>film about early 19th century Russia
>everyone speaks English and not French
>>575332
>I know Nappy gets owned at the end but what was Russia's purpose for getting involved?
Same reason as why they got involved in the 2nd coalition: suppressing the ideas of the French Revolution.
And Napoleon doesnt get owned at the end of the Third Coalition, he wins at Austerlitz (the battle depicted in the 2nd episode), Austria surrenders, the HRE is destroyed and the Russian army goes home until its next war of aggression against France a year later.
Classic Paul Dano.
>>575332
I hated how they had Napoleon pass for an evil conqueror
I mean, it's normal to hear that from the point of view of the characters, but they could at least have put the truth in the small text at the beginning of the first episode
Napoleon didn't invade Austria just because.
He managed to restore peace in Europe in 1802, but Britain broke it by declaring war on France in 1803 (thus starting the Napoleonic Wars).
Then, as they were unable to fight France by themselves, they paid Austria and Russia to attack France.
Upon receiving their declaration of war, Napoleon decided to bring the war to their territory instead of waiting for an invasion, and that's where we are by the time the serie starts.
>>575332
Apparently Talleyrand wasn't a fan of Napoleon. Talleyrand convinced the Russians not to go along with Boney's division of Europe.
>>575332
That Andrei is unfairly good looking. The book is decent if you dont mind all Tolstoys historical musing bullshit
When is the next episode?
>>577686
his face is so weird, i make me want to check if aspect ratio is right every time he's in scene
>>575332
Classic
please read the book.
~CLASSIC~
Is the A &E one the bbc one?
I lol'd at how it skipped directly from 1805 to 1809
So no 4th coalition?
What about the hussar guy? Did he fight in it?
I dunno about how it is in the book, but the 4th coalition is way more important to understand what happened between Russia and France in 1812 than the 3rd one.
>>582139
The novel has big timeskips too.
>>576980
I doubt there would have been cold war. Liberal Russia would never have executed his generals allowing them to stop Germany before the war even started.
>>582139
It's not really a historical review of Napoleon era France. It is a novel after all, with focus on different views of the world (as seen through different aristocratic characters).
A&E has a war and peace series? Is it any good?
>>582139
War and Peace (the book) just summarises that bit of history and doesn't go into detail (other than Tilsit itself), because none of its main characters fought in that war. While Tolstoy was perfectly happy to switch from character perspective narrative to the grand historical summing up of years of political developments, that is harder to pull off in a TV series.
The French invasion of Russia is the only campaign that Tolstoy covers in complete exhaustive detail, because it affects every character in the story.
>>581184
Yes, A&E is just the channel it's being broadcast on for yanks.
>>582159
>It's not really a historical review of Napoleon era France
It actually kind of is. There is a reason why some people don't call War and Peace a novel, it mixes history, social commentary and philosophy with storytelling. There are whole sections of the book where Tolstoy goes totally non fiction, and he switches between the two so often its almost impossible to categorize what War and Peace is.
>>582417
>because none of its main characters fought in that war.
What about the hussar in debt?
I understood that Andrei left the army after Austerlitz, but the other dude remained, right?
>>582484
Nikolai only arrives back at his regiment quite late on, I don't think he fights in any battles, really that part of the story is more about his anxiousness to get back into the fray, Tolstoy interested in covering how soldiers and their families viewed the war back in Moscow
I think anyway, its been years since I read it. I get some of the dates mixed up sometimes.
>>577692
Is this copypasta? I've read this before
>>583613
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Russian hussars, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Napoleon, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in napoleonic warfare and I’m the top marksman in the entire Coalition. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the Europe and your message is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Imperial Russian Army and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Russian Empire moar liek Neo-Mongol Empire amirite
Just watched the first episode, it's pretty good (great the work they did on costumes and of course you can't go wrong with these beautiful settings), but as others have said Prince Andrei is woefully miscast. His actor should have been Anatole, they completely fucked up Andrei who is the best character in the book by making him into a smug pretty boy.
Andrei is meant to come off as highly intelligent but distant, this guy looked lost in most scenes. Andrei is meant to be calculating and thinking in all his scenes, this actor failed at pretty much everything (including looking the part) other than the aloofness, and even that he overplayed.
>>577692
In the very first episode we have the hero and main character tell all the snooty bastards in Anna Pavlovna's soiree that he thinks Napoleon is a hero. The book (and the TV show) is about Russia's views towards Napoleon and how the wars against him transformed Russia itself. As the show goes on we should see that changing more and more.
I've only seen the first ep mind.
>>575332
>but what was Russia's purpose for getting involved?
Russia agreed to embargo Britain with France. Tsar Alexander I and Napoleon were originally political buddies, or as much of buddies as they could be in the political world. However, it became obvious that Russia couldn't survive without trading with Britain. As such, Russia broke the embargo deal and renewed trade with Britain.
Napoleon, feeling betrayed and intent on not appearing spineless, decided to invade Russia to stop a great power from trading with Britain and to make it clear he isn't to be crossed.
>>583851
>In the very first episode we have the hero and main character tell all the snooty bastards in Anna Pavlovna's soiree that he thinks Napoleon is a hero.
And then in the 2nd episode he says that Napoleon is a monster after all, because he happened to win the war he was already engaged in by the time he praised him in the first episode
Not very coherent (unless he said that just to please his soldiers friends).
>>583873
OP is talking about the war of 1805 (Third Coalition), not 1812.
1805 was a war of aggression against France, motivated by the hatred from Russian and Austrian nobles against the ideals of the Revolution that had been kept by Napoleon.
>>583878
>Pierre
>consistant
Can you even understand the most basic fucking characterisation?
Pierre flip-flops and changes his mind a thousand times on everything. He is always well meaning but his actions tend to have bad consequences,or at least unforeseen ones. He was the antecedent of the revolutionaries of Tolstoy. You see this right at the very end of the book.
>>583889
Are you saying War and Peace takes place in 1805?
If so then damn, I've misguided myself.
>>583873
Also, Russia's withdrawal from the Continental System wasnt motivated by economical matters.
Alexander didnt hesitate to burn half of his country (dooming Russia's economy for the next century) and sacrifice hundreds thousands of his civilian population with the scorched earth policy just to beat Napoleon.
The reason he did that is because he was nuts and firmly believed that Napoleon was the Antichrist.
His "alliance" (more like a submission) with France after Tilsit was to last just long enough for Russia to rebuild its armies after the disaster of Friedland
He never planned to make a friend of Napoleon
>>583906
War and Peace covers an entire generation, starting in 1805 and ending..fuck I don't even know, but decades later. Almost all of it is 1805-1812 though, the one section it covers most closely is the French invasion and retreat from Russia in 1812. Previous battles and wars are covered when the characters are involved with them. Borodino and Austerlitz are the two battles we see in extreme close up detail.
>>583917
Alexander and Napoleon were closer before that period though, things obviously soured to shit later.
Again, the way that Franco-Russian relations changed over 1805-1812 is one of the key themes in War and Peace.
