Let's talk about the actual history of Islam, not the one from any religious book, but anything from any HISTORICAL book
The greatest tragedy to befall the world. Caused the ruin of the middle east and south asia.
>>496980
Agreed, moar?
The Qur'an is indisputably an ancient theological work.
The hadith, however, are too anachronistic to be historical, and many are obvious attempts at inventing/legitimising Qur'anic interpretation and Islamic doctrine. They are the Islamic equivalent of patristics in Christianity.
Read 'The Emergence of Islam' by Gabriel Said Reynolds, it's a good intro to modern critical scholarship.
>>497101
>modern critical scholarship.
gross
>>496963
Would be interesting to explore how Islam so swiftly converted many North Africans -- the theory I heard was that they were Arian Christians and due to their marginalized status within the Byzantine Empire they were far more incentivized to convert to gain privileges in the new Caliphate.
>>497114
Mad because Islam is getting dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century just like Christianity was 150 years ago?
>>496980
>Ruin of the mideast and south asia
>made the mideast the most relevant it had been for centuries with its advent
>implying anything of note happened in south asia until the Mughals except caste system injustice and bathing in sacred rivers filled with shit and decomposing corpses
Islam is a pretty trash religion honestly. The only thing they have going for it is the architecture imho.
>>497692
Honestly it's not. Their architecture is but one of things to be admired imho.
Hussain completes Islam?
>>496980
You really don't understand anything, Anon.
.
>>496963
>>498347
>>Some perverted desert dweller wanted to have sex with little kids and goats
You don't need to invent a new religion to do that, that's been going on for millennia without much opposition. Hell, the ancient Greeks turned it into an artform.
It's spread at such a lightning speed is the most interesting thing besides IGE stuff.
>>498273
Based Ataturk
>>497866
>Their architecture is but one of things to be admired imho.
Yeah, the other thing to admire is when they destroy it because of a difference in interpretation or leadership.
>>499275
???
This book is incredible, btw.
>>499236
That's more from Muslims just having a lot of kids in third world countries where Islam is the dominant religion rather than converts.
>>499759
I think he meant initially. It went all the way down the Silk Road pretty impressively
>>498273
Based
>>499759
You've completely misinterpreted the post you responded too.
>>499304
ok the pic actually made me butthurt
Islam is the Mormonism of Arian Christianity.
>>499861
Islam is the cancer
>>499865
How?
>>499865
It seems a hell of a lot more sane and christian than Nicene Christianity. The trinity seems like it was plagiarized from the hindus and it's obvious they re-engineered the christian faith to serve the roman state and pander to pagans. The only downside to islam is their iconoclasm and disdain for music.
>>499903
>The only downside to islam is their iconoclasm and disdain for music.
That's modern Salafi bullshit though.
The theology around the depiction of living things can actually lead to some pretty based outcomes when you consider a lot of (admittedly mostly Shi'ah) Islamic art
Right now it's pretty much Islam's lowest ever point. It sucks because historically the religion has had quite a lot going for it
>>499941
The more I hear about shia the more interesting it sounds to me. Too bad the nearest shia mosque is 2 hours away from me.
>>499987
Yeah. It's ironic that the sect that demanded a familial rather than a meritocratic caliphal succession ended more ended up vastly more progressive
>>496963
It seems like Wahhabism and Arab superiority over other islamic nations irredeemably fucked over and radicalized islam to extreme levels. The idea of terrorists being associated with islam is too ingrained for the average person and anon to ever have people see islam in a non-bias way.
>>499903
>it's obvious they re-engineered the christian faith to serve the roman state and pander to pagans
Is it?
>>500041
"bias" isn't an adjective, I fucking hate when people use it as one
>>500041
The main thing that pisses me off is this weird ass dichotomy where people confirm their biases that the shitty modern regime sects are traditional legitimate Islam, but also that traditional legitimate Islam must be destroyed. It's an easy way to win over support for wanting to get people to fight them, inserting this kind of shit into people's heads who don't have the necessary historical context to understand any better, but at the same time it partially legitimizes these shitty sects and gives credence for other muslims to side with them. The retarded hard to define use of shit like extremist and radical have given people the perception that these groups are the ones taking the religion to it's fullest extent and not that they're merely being extreme from a minority angle.
When confronted about this most people immediately point to sharia law, as if most muslims "radical" or not do agree that sharia law is what they want. If only we lived in a world these people presented where muslims would actually unify and agree with each other, simply because both agree sharia is good. Double kek.
>>500101
What *is* traditional legitimate Islam?
>>497692
>>499275
back to /pol/
next time use actual history
>>499236
Interesting thing is, it actually didn't. The Middle East as a whole wasn't majority Muslim until around the time of Saladin. 20% of the region was still Christian a century ago.
>>500326
Won't Learn This In Paradox Games!
>>500041
It doesn't help that there's an entire country of batshit corrupt Wahhabists holding the holiest area in islam, basically calling the shots.
God, when will the Saudis just fucking collapse? They're cancer.
>>500346
>God, when will the Saudis just fucking collapse?
Not until the oil runs out.
We know that whatever follows the house of Saud is likely to be far worse. They know we know. We know they know we know.
That's the essence of the Saudi-Western relationship.
REMINDER:
islam genetically destroyed and raped the entire indo-european aryan middle east that previously was basically just a genetic extension of europe
berbers - described by the egyptians as 'the white race' in contrast to their own 'red race'
persians - green, blue and grey eyed, blonde, light brown, etc fair skinned people described by the greeks with other ethnicities under their rule being more Mediterranean looking
anatolians - greeks
syrian greeks - greeks
they fucked it up
>>500428
oh i forgot, tocharians, afghans, sogdians kurds, and basically all the other Iranid peoples
>>500428
>thinking a handful of Bedouins changed the racial makeup of Africa and the middle east
>think enough turkmen flooded into Anatolia to change it's racial makeup
>confusing language speakers and race
>being this /pol/ tire
>>500192
If you really don't think Islamic jihad is a problem for both western countries and Muslims themselves and you can just hand-wave the sheer fucking magnitude of bloodshed that has been wrought by Muslim extremists against both Muslims and non-Muslims for centuries and still today by saying "back to /pol/," then you're just a fucking idiot. Lots of people are fucking dying and it's getting worse, you apologist shithead.
>>500582
Islamic jihad isn't the problem, its the west constantly pumping money into the Saudis causing them to gain even more influence with their shitty Wahabism and arming radical islamists. But hey, lets blame a 1500 year old religion for what has been happening for maybe 30 years. Now please, go back to /pol/
>>500609
Do you think I don't agree that the US government should stop fucking facilitating the motherfuckers? But the radical Muslims touting their fundamentalist doctrine are the ones committing the actual violence, they're not suddenly relieved from responsibility for their actions because the U.S. is very likely using them as a tool to deliberately destabilize the Middle East. And sure as hell is too fucking late to just stop funding them and make the problem magically disappear, IS is a global fucking network that is having alarming success in recruiting.
This is a really big fucking problem, man, it isn't going to go away if we are insistent that it's just /pol/ fear-mongering to acknowledge it.
>>500657
Not him, but I don't think anyone's disputing that the current salafist-jihadist trend is dangerous, but I think it's a little unfair to generalise 1500 years of history because of what's very much a modern and current trend
>>500657
It is pretty easy to be honest, ISIS has no experience with actually governing a country, right now they are only in charge because of the shitton of money they are making thanks to A) their Oil exports and B) the funding of the royal fucking Saudi family. Stop buying Oil without knowing where it comes from and stop funding the Saudis so the opressed people can finally overthrow these fuckers and return somewhat of a stability to the middle east. But of course, there are no profits in this for the west so this will probably continue for maybe another 30 years
they provided an impetus for Sikhism, that's kinda cool I guess
