Question:
What is the policy of Christians on considering what is and is not idolatry?
I only ask because I often see statues like pic related in churches. It doesn't really make sense to me how you can put a statue with a explicit depiction of a man who you believe is the embodiment of god at the forefront of your place of worship, and say that you have not created an idol. It just causes some confusion to non-Christians.
>>482488
to put it extremely simply, you have to worship the object itself as a God for it to be an idol in most none protestant churches.
I think that idea refers to non-christian related idols. Things which might draw your worship away from a depiction of Christ.
>>482500
But the Jews for example, practice it as if you even so much as look at an image of SOMETHING while praying, you're practicing idolatry. I believe that most Greeks and Egyptians didn't think that their statues were actual gods, but they are thought of as idolators.
I guess my question is, why did this practice come about? When? And why is idolatry so important to Christians when they have abandoned about 95% of the other Old Testament commandments?
Unless you're literally retarded, you can tell the difference between an object and what it represents.
>>482519
But it's not.
Maybe you're thinking of Protestants.
>>482520
Ok, but seriously
Mosques:
Contain no images of people on their inside
synagogues, schules, etc.:
Contain no images of people on their inside
Christian churches:
Contains probably ~50 statues, paintings, stained glass windows, reliefs, etc. depicting various religious icons.
Why?
>>482551
Because Christians are idiots who think that having those things means they'll be worshiped like God is.
>>482551
Because Christians aren't retarded?
>>482488
An idol is a physical object that is worshipped. You'll struggle to find many christians who are praying TO the crucifixes, statues and stained glass in their churches.
>>482563
Except for every Catholic ever, right?
>>482551
The problem is you're thinking of it from a Muslim point of view. I assume you are Muslim, aren't you?
Idolatry is differently defined in the two faiths. Idolatry in mainstream Christianity, as previously stated, refers to explicitly worshipping a..thing. If a crucifix was literally worshiped then yeah, that'd be idolatry. Praying BEFORE a crucifix isn't, because you don't worship it. Muslim idolatry is different. That's just it.
>>482551
Icons are forbidden in Judaism and Islam for the same reason it's forbidden to say God's name in Judaism. Primitive people believe that representing something either physically or with a word gives you magical power over it. Like how you acquire control of a demon if you find out its name. Doing the same for their god is seen as blasphemous and aggressive action against him.
Then there is a separate issue but which got mixed with the first, which is suppressing other religions by forbidding any representations that might be subject to worship. Again this stems from the primitive belief in a magical link between an object and its representation.
>>482580
>he thinks catholics actually worship saints
>he thinks catholics actually worship statues of saints
laughing nuns.jpg
>>482551
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dura-Europos_synagogue
Sadly rekt by ISIS
>>482593
Icons aren't forbidden in classical Judaism, the Temple of Jerusalem had them all over the place
OP got rekt
A subtle "convert-to-islam" thread
>>482603
>>482598
I wasn't aware of this, pretty cool. I guess then the modern practice started somewhere between when the Talmud got compiled and the building of the temple, so it's possible that the Christian view on idolatry didn't change, whereas the Jewish view did.
Although more likely it's because Romans and other ancient Christians didn't understand the Semitic notion of idolatry.
>>482580
Your heresy is showing.
>>482488
>OP comes in with a super apparent bias and gets blown the fuck out with every single response.
>mfw
Well done, /his/, I'm proud of you.
>>482636
It started after the Destruction of the Temple by the Romans, which happened in the first century. Since Christians see the Temple as a stand in for Christ before Christ, it makes sense it would get rekt by God after Christ.
>>482488
Any worship that is not directed towards our Lord and Savior is idolatry.
Idolatry is nothing more or less than worshiping anything that is not God.
>>482551
Why not? Just because you have paintings of the saints or scenes from the Bible in your church doesn't mean anything. Only retarded iconoclasts think that having a picture of someone inside your church means you automatically worship them.
>>482488
Christians think that Jesus is God Himself (but not God Himself nor the other God Himself though God Himself and God Himself and God Himself are all exactly God Himself) so it's okay to violate the Commandments and worship images of Jesus.
>>482795
that's what most of idolaters says in my country and i am from India btw.
>>482971
okay it is confusing now, so how many gods are there i christianity? 3?
>>482519
The Jews also had a tradition of venerating angels and yes....using imagery sanctioned by God himself written in the Bible.
The temple of Solomon has some images of cherubims.
Moving later, we find synagogues such as Dura Europos(I hope I got the spelling right) that even had images of OT prophets.
The context of the Biblical prohibition of graven images is important where the object itself is treated as hosting the spirit or god that was worshiped. Food is even offered to them.
When this is understood, it's not that images are idolatrous, it's how such images are treated. Christianity sees them as props be it as theology in image form or as a way to commemorate and honor a saint, possibly IMO as a stand in for relics.
Also, the reason why God is depicted is because he has become man, human and thus physical. The images of Christ testifies to this.
>>482563
So basically no one is idol-worshipper. Even primitive tribes do not literally beleive that the stone figure is a God but that the God lives in it or that it represents the God.
This leads me to think that the commandments against idolatry isn't "literally thinking the object is a God" why have a commandment against something that literally no one does? Rather it's closer to how the Jews and Muslims act. In other words. Yes involving an icon, statue, or art work in prayer is idolatry.
Because Christians ignore the first Commandment because they like art, and they ignore the 10th Commandment because they like capitalism.
Who blames them? I don't. The West literally wouldn't function if people adhered to the 10th Commandment.
>>482551
I just want to point out that it's mainly catholics that have a number of statues.
Catholics are really the only ones to put Jesus on the cross as well. Every non Catholic church I've been to had a giant plain cross on the altar and very few had a small stand with a large fancy Bible opened to the scripture of the day. The open Bibles are usually along the walls and close to the doors for late comers to catch up.
>>482785
>Since Christians see the Temple as a stand in for Christ before Christ
Could you explain this view? It sounds kind of like an attempt to paint the ancient Jews as idolaters.
>>482594
>w-we pray to saints for them to pray to jesus for us
>th-that's a totally different thing and totally what jesus told us to do
>>484910
>Even primitive tribes do not literally beleive that the stone figure is a God but that the God lives in it or that it represents the God.
lots of them do actually.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
>the mediator is Jesus
>not Mary and not St. Anthony
Catholics literally ignore their own scriptures.
>>485218
So do protestants, but it's whatever. There are more important things to bitch about.
>>485246
>NO U
>>485246
>Ἰάkωβος (Jakobos)
>James
why do anglos do this
>>484910
For perspective, modern idolatry is money. You don't necessarily have to pray to it.
>>485165
> Jesus on the cross
one of the trouble areas I have had lately is with displaying Christ in worship.
We don't know what Jesus looked like, and if we display a picture of Christ and direct our attention to it, we are really directing our attention in worship to something that isn't even accurate. Not only isn't it accurate, it's someone else up there other than Christ...and this makes me feel uncomfortable in light of the Ten Commandments.
>>485274
Even John of Damascus who Catholics / Orthodox often turn to as a defense for iconolatry, said the following:
>If we attempt to make an image of the invisible God, this would be sinful indeed. It is impossible to portray one who is without body:invisible, uncircumscribed and without form.
pic related
Catholic retards ignore their own scriptures and their own Church Fathers.
>>485270
>For perspective, modern idolatry is money. You don't necessarily have to pray to it.
So basically idolatry is whatever you define it as. Essentially it's definition is so loose that anything can or cannot be idolatry. It's all subjective man!
>>485293
You must be pretty stupid irl.
>>485309
>DO NOT DEPICT GOD THE FATHER, IT'S A SIN
>depict God the Father anyway
You are the stupid ones.
>>485293
Even more retarded is the Protestants who create new doctrines and call them Biblical teaching despite the fact that NONE of the Church Fathers even believed in that crap like Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura to begin with.
>>483376
3 gods that make one super god, so 4.
Not even a Christian but the lack of understanding of Christian fundamentals from the Muslims ITT is frustrating
Prove Islam is correct before you try to shit on other faiths. Apologetics motherfuckers.
>>482488
It's so simple how can you not understand it? Wooden sculptures aren't Jesus, small crackers are Jesus.
>>482488
If you look in the instructions in the old testament on making the tabernacle you will find that it actually commands that the curtains have angels embroidered on them, and also the construction of golden statues of angels, so that obviously can't be classified as idolatry. Idolatry seems to have been understood as the worshiping of the actual object itself as divine, not just using objects.
No one would actually think that the statue of Jesus is actually divine and worthy of worship, ergo it isn't idolatry.
>>485293
Is John of Damascus condemning the creation of images of God wholesale, or the creation of Icons of God the Father? Remember that Icons have a specific function in Eastern Churches, so there is a big difference between making a formal Icon on the one hand and just painting a picture.
>>486037
>construction of the tabernacle
Thank you for reminding me of the most annoying part of the Bible
>>486024
Please point out where Muslims are shitting on Christianity. You must also prove the posters are Muslim in your response.
>>486035
>>482488
Most of the church's policy on anything is in the catechism.
Start here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm
>>485196
>pray to them
>not ask them for their own prayers
How is that any different to asking for anyone else to pray for you? Because that's what literally every Christian sect does.
>>482519
>I believe that most Greeks and Egyptians didn't think that their statues were actual gods, but they are thought of as idolators.
They actually did. They accused early Christians of being Athiests because our god had no physical presence. Even the Jews had the Holiest of Holies.
>>485180
The Temple was an icon (not an idol) for the Body of Christ, which is now the Church. Christ being the Temple is referenced several times in the NT.
>>486098
Relevant section from catechism:
2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone
According to Iconoclast Protties, this is idolatry
idolatry is dependent on the person. if you have a statue of Jesus, and think to yourself "i'm bowing down to this lump of rock and worshipping the rock", then it's idolatry. if you bow towards the statue, but in your mind you're thinking of the actual Jesus, then it's not idolatry
there's no point taking it to extremes, because you can make all worship idolatry. the image you're creating in your mind of jesus, is a visual image in your mind, and therefore idolatry. if you're visualising the word "Jesus", you're making letters an idol. everything is idolatry taken to its extreme
>>486131
you are so blinded by Catholic Dogma, you have no free will to question the path they are leading you down
List off the Ten Commandments they have given you, and you will note they are NOT the Ten Commandments in the Bible. You are Worshiping IDOLS. I am just warning you, and we will see when you are both brought up before God and he says to you "Get away from me, I do not know you"
Question for Iconoclasts: How do you prevent the formation of mental images?
Question for Protestants: How do you prevent idolizing the Bible?
>>486267
>all you need to be a Christian is to accept Jesus is your saviour
>God wont recognise these people because they accept Jesus is their saviour but also believe a bunch of other stuff too
Protestant logic
>>486267
Orthodox have the same Ten Commandments as the Bible
>>486315
The Bible emphasis is faith and belief not in ritual. Jesus condemned ritual prayers. The RCC just ignores it, why do you think what Jesus said is worthless?
No wonder your popes went out of their way to burn the Bible whenever they could because it shows you up for what you are a completely satanic religion.
Your church is drunk with the blood of the saints.
>>486330
That has nothing to do with what I posted.
Is someone who believes Jesus Christ is their saviour a Christian? Yes or no.
>>486330
He made a new one called "Our Father" though.
We also know that the NT Church would also engage in rituals like Baptism, giving praise and the Eucharist. We also know that the rubric of Early Christian worship would be derived from the rituals of Judaism to begin with.
The ones in Early Christianity that deny the established orthodox Church and power of the Sacraments are....The Gnostics. If any you guys are the fucking heretics and satanists who strayed away from original Christianity.
There is no Sola Fide in Early Christianity. If any, Protestantism is a MOCKERY of the Saints!
>>486342
It is no secret the RCC has deceived and led countless billions astray from the true doctrines of Jesus Christ which disqualify its followers of eternal life.
>>486373
Still not answered a very simple question. Is someone who believes that Jesus Christ is their saviour a Christian?
>>486373
It's no secret that Protestants do the same
>>482500
>visit statue of zeus
>worship zues via statue
>yhwh is ok with this
>>486382
Everyone can be forgiven. Jesus Christ died for all mankind. His sacrifice covered all humanity
All they need to do is being born again (John chapter 3) and follow Christ wholeheartedly. No church or denomination can save you, only Jesus Christ
Is Shinto the ultimate idolatry religion? They worships rocks and trees and shit.
>>486399
More like
>visit statue of Zeus
>unironically worship the statue itself
>pray TO the statue because you literally worship it
>YHWH is not okay with this
>>486400
How do we know this?
He is a liar who promised that his Church would not fall. Yet lo and behold for hundreds of years ever since he himself left, the Church died!
>>486400
So what you are saying, is that people who believe that Jesus Christ is their saviour, ARE Christians? Then most Catholics are Christians.
>>486400
You do realize the Church is Christ's Body? The NT explicitly says this.
>>486420
You sound like a Pharisee denigrating true Bible-believing followers of Christ.
I honour, extol, worship, praise and adore only Jesus Christ, not Mary whom you worship like goddess, co-saviour, co-martyr with Christ thus detracting from His fully sufficient sacrifice.
>>486433
Mary is God's Mother, why exactly would you not venerate her?
>>486451
Mary is not the Mother of God, He has no beginning and no end
>>486457
We got ourselves an Arianist!
>>486433
Your Jesus is a liar! He lied to us when he said his Church would not fall! Yet it did!
>>486433
>implying Catholics worship Mary
So once again, all you need to do is X, but people who do X and some other stuff too dont count.
>>486472
The RCC has bugger-all to do with Christianity and Catholics aren't Christians. The RCC will have their blood on its hands. The RCC is the harlot seated on the Beast described in the Apocalypse drunk with the blood of the saints
Does it sound Christian? Where's your tolerance of non-Catholics? What about all wars and inquisitions instigated by the Pope? What about the Vatican's collusion with Nazis and the mafia? What about so much paedophilia and homosexuality among the clergy covered up without any consequences?
>>486479
Woops, mixed up muh heresies. I was thinking of Docetism.
>>486488
What about the Protestants who deviated from original Christianity and claim themselves to be true Christianity?
That's pure dishonesty and is truly disgusting.
You and your elk should rot in hell forever
>>486479
Mary was Jesus' mother in the sense of an adoptive parent, she does not have a blood connection to Jesus.
>>486497
I think some monk said that judging others for judging is the most difficult judging to overcome. But you might consider that.
>>486497
I am a representative of Jesus christ
I do not speak for any sect of christianity
>>486499
>adoptive
>literally conceived inside her
>>486508
You dare say that when your own doctrines can't even match what the Early Christians believe in?
Give me a fucking break you shitty prick.
>>486512
Let every post you make on 4chan be as if in a prayer to God.
>>486488
>Just because you accept Christ as your saviour doesnt mean you're a Christian.
lel
What about all the wars and witch trials instigated by Protestants. What about the Protestants who made up the bulk of the German army. Are you honestly suggesting that Protestant clergy dont commit paedophilia?
>>486510
Today I learned that I'm also immaculately conceived.
I have no blood relation to any parent.
>>486524
Great, so you wouldn't need to fertilize a human woman.
>>486544
Oh, I did. But anon has opened my eyes to the fact that that doesn't mean I have a biological mother.
I was adopted by a woman, who I just happened to spend 9 months inside of.
>>486524
BTW, which denomination are you, that you do not consider Mary to be the mother of Jesus?
>>486558
Not that anon. I am a Cathodox who's taking the piss.
>>486564
But doesn't the immaculate conception in Catholicism have to do with Mary's conception? That is, just means a natural conception but without sin?
>>486569
Constantine, I was joking.
I do not seriously believe that Mary was not the mother of Jesus.
I am having some fun with the implications that Mary was the 'adoptive' mother of Jesus, and that a woman can conceive of a child and bear no blood relations to him.
Mary gave him his physical body, Not his soul. The soul was Christs and did not enter the body until it was out of mary's womb (the moment God breaths life into all babies)
>>486594
#Protlogick101
>>486594
>Mary gave him his physical body, Not his soul.
So most people's souls come from their mother, and not god?
You're not even Protestant.
>>486594
Christ had a human soul, m8.
Kind of related but to the Christians here but why was Jesus so mean to the Cannanite woman and likened non jews to dogs?
>>486609
All humans have adams curse-the curse of death
Dwell on that
>>486616
Wanted to force her faith as opposed to just someone wanting him to do something.
>>486619
All creation has Adam's curse of death. Christ was the only exception.
Human souls don't have it innately, however, neither do animal souls.
>>486619
Jaysus is human.
Dwell on that retard
>>486625
>Wanted to force her faith as opposed to just someone wanting him to do something.
What does this mean?
>>486654
Remember the ten leapers? Christ did something for them, but it hardly did anything for their faith, only one thanked him. Christ doing something for the woman wouldn't necessarily strengthen her faith, but this way he did. Faith is a product of humility, and her humility was massive
>>486672
I see where you are coming from, he was just pretending to be mean. What are the other good parables for Jesus interacting with non jewish peoples
>>486690
The Good Samaritan is Christ's main parables addressing non-Jewish people. His interaction with the Roman soldier of authority is good episode.
>>486698
I mean like his actual interactions with them.
>>486707
The Roman soldier with authority is a good episode of actual interaction..
>>486715
Yeah but I was hoping to hear of the others as well. Im curious to understand how non jews without authority and power were dealt with
>>482519
>But the Jews...
the jews also declare that christ boils in a pot of shit in hell. Who gives a rat's ass what they think.
Judaism is a seperate religion from christianity.
>>486737
Considering they didn't follow God's religion, they were dealt with according to the virtue and faith.
>>486796
yeah but I was interested in seeing how hed go about converting non jews and showing his relevance beyond healing
>>486853
Christ evangelized, he didn't proselytize.
>>486867
>Christ evangelized, he didn't proselytize.
How come?
>>486879
I don't know, maybe because it's obnoxious? To this day, the Orthodox Church is against proselytizing.
>>486904
>I don't know, maybe because it's obnoxious?
Christ wasnt scared to offend local sensibilities but when does evangelizing become proselytizing.?
>>486867
Did Jesus masterbate?
>>482488
The Pentateuch made a pretty big point out of the fact that representing Godly things and saying "yes, this is what it looks like" is a major sin.
Representing heaven, hell, saints, God, etc. in a way that means "yes, this is what it looked like" is pretty bad.
Statues of Jesus aren't bad. People don't pray to them or something, and nowadays most people know that's probably not what Jesus actually looked like.
However, paintings of heaven & hell in Catholic churches that were made to tell the people "this is what you'll get if you do or don't do this and that" are pretty bad. Again, people don't necessarily think this anymore, but it is the original purpose of such paintings.
>>486933
When it becomes aggressive instead of passive.
Christ was aggressive toward the Pharisees, but he wasn't trying to convert them to a new faith, they were already the same faith (Christ even said Pharisaic doctrine was essentially sound). He was attacking them for being hypocrites.
>>487073
Are Orthodox aggressive towards other Christians and jews?
>>487110
No. Unlike other Christians, we don't see Jews as God's chosen people, though, but we still have dialogue with them.
>>486401
Shinto and Chinese Folk religion are the closest example we have to Pagan European religions (Not culturally of course, but mechanically. The closest culturally would be Hinduism and Buddhism). They are based solely in ritual which makes them almost polar opposite from Abrahamic faiths.
>>486749
>Jews
>hell
Stopped reading there.
>>487391
Rabbinic Judaism affirms hell, and the Talmud does indeed say Jesus is being boiled alive in excrement in hell.
>>487162
In the manner of Christ ie pointing out their hypocrisy or something else?
How big a threat is Islam to Orthodoxy?
>>487414
Jews aren't the same religion anymore, so it's not really our place to point out their hypocrisy. They split when Rabbi Akiva (referred to as the Sage of All Sages in the Talmud) pronounced bar Kokhba (who is held by the Orthodox to be an icon of the anti-Christ) the Christ.
Orthodox Christians aren't threatened by Shia Islam. There are actually many Christians fighting alongside Shiites in Hezbollah against Sunnis and Israel. And the Orthodox tend to be very supportive of Assad.
>>486055
All kinds of images.
>>487468
>y Christians fighting alongside Shiites in Hezbollah against Sunnis and Israel. And the Orthodox tend to be very supportive of Assad.
Is it right for the Church and its adherents to be politically active like that especially with a man like Assad?
Orthodox Christian here.
I'm tired of running into ignorant people that don't understand this. We do not worship THE OBJECT. You are not praying to THE OBJECT. And when you pray to a saint, you are not worshiping THE SAINT.
You are worshiping and praying to what the object represents. It's just showing respect to what the symbols and icons stand for. Nobody kneels in front of an icon of the Theotokos and says "O Holy Piece of Wood with Paint and Gild on It, I beseech Thee..." That's ridiculous. You pray to the Theotokos in front of the icon of her. And even then, you are not worshiping the Theotokos or saint, we reserve worship for God himself. You are, again, just showing respect and praying for her soul and for her to watch over you and stuff.
We decorate our churches with beautiful glass, mosaics, crucifixes and other decoration because it looks beautiful. I don't see what the problem with this is. It's simply trying to convey the beauty of God.
I've got no problem with going into a church that is literally just plain walls and a cross in the background. There's nothing wrong with being humble. But there is equally nothing wrong with expressing art and emotion with decoration.
>>487484
Consider his opposition wants to massacre Christians, yes
>>487484
Where in the Bible does it say our priests can't be political? You also assume every priest is supportive of people like Assad. My priest is actually very liberal, he supports accepting the """""""Syrian""""""" refugees and shit, which I don't agree with.
Priests are our spiritual guides, not our political ones. They are entitled to their own political views.
>>487494
You are now aware that this disctinction doesn't exist in the Bible and it's considered the same thing.
Honestly, defending idolatry is just performing a shitload of mental acrobatics and trying to find loopholes everywhere. It doesn't work like that. When it comes to Orthodox Church, the Iconoclasts had it right. Shame they got kicked out and replaced with shitty heretical paganism.
>>487508
I don't exactly understand any priest would hate Assad. We found out it was the rebels who used the chemical weapons, and it turns out the entire idea that the police were firing on protesters before protesters started burning buildings and killing cops, comes entirely from one kid who went to jail for graffiti. None of his neighbor corroborated anything except that he went to jail.
Assad's a pretty good guy, honestly.
>>487520
Yeah, I agree. My point is just that the fact that these men supporting him are priests is a non-factor. One's faith is not the same as one's political views.
>>487509
Really? Because I've been reading the Bible for my entire life, including the original Koine of the New Testament.
I love it when atheists or Protestants try to tell people who actually study the Bible what is in it. The Old Testament is more or less a historical context for the New Testament, Christ did away with many things in it.
Having icons is not the same as worshiping them, buddy. Why do you think you're smarter than the thousands of theologians who have gone over this for literally thousands of years? If the use of icons was truly heretical it would have been wiped out a long time ago.
>>487541
God specifically instructed the Israelites to decorate Ark and ONLY the Ark with the statues. I don't recall God going around and telling some Greeks to plaster their churches with images of random dead guys.
You're basically saying that because an exemption from the law exists (like for example, killing someone in self defense not being a crime), then the exemption itself becomes the rule (we are at liberty to kill everyone we meet).
>>486401
It's not ultimate, it's just a particular pagan religion. Also very interesting.
>>487381
Shinto and TCR/CFR are pretty different from European paganisms though. Without overstating it, China and Japan reconciled religion and philosophy much earlier and they avoided degeneration into hero cult entirely. Of course they also (for the most part) allowed religions to not simply coexists but to syncretize or else cross-pollinate, whereas the Europeans were always obsessed with orthodoxy and orthopraxy to some degree.
>>487537
>One's faith is not the same as one's political views.
Well, generally not but, but in this case, they are very closely allied, because it's not like in Western countries: Christians are at very real risk of having their faith outlawed and their churches razed, when you have issues like that, then Christianity and politics kind of overlap.
But of course you're also right in that even under regular circumstances, priests can be involved in politics: they just can't hold political office.
>>487494
>I'm tired of running into ignorant people that don't understand this. We do not worship THE OBJECT. You are not praying to THE OBJECT.
Very often this is true in pagan religion. This is exactly the case in Hinduism.
Are you worshipping something other than God? It's idolatry. Catholics worship the saints and Mary, Orthodox worship icons, some Protestants worship towards a cross and that may or may not be idolatry depending on the person.
>>487570
Do Protestants not understand what veneration means?
>>487575
Just about everyone knows what a loophole is.
>>482598
It should be noted that this synagogue, if it was a synagogue, would have been from a highly Hellenized population (that is, upper class community) and I think the images are all (?) on the outside.
>>487595
Well, Hellenic Jews weren't necessarily heretics or syncretics (actually polytheism remained popular among Jews prior to Roman conquest, worship of Ashera, etc.). Dura-Europos might have been used by orthodox Jews of the time but they were what we'd call liberal regarding rules like image depiction. I'm not VERY well read on the subject though so I could be wrong.
>>487520
>Assad's a pretty good guy, honestly.
Aside from literally supporting ISIS and playing a key role in their creation.
>>487645
CIA pls go
>>487556
Yeah, I agree. In my opinion the Catholic Church is giving in too easily to the SJWs and liberals who would love to see it all burned to the ground. The Orthodox have more or less been standing strong against this kind of shit because Orthodox Christians have genuinely felt firsthand that we are under serious threat from Islam, and, for example, in the case of Greece suffered under it for hundreds of years.
>>487645
It's weird how many people choose to ignore this fact. He flat out traded with ISIS and released their prisoners in order to gain another ally against the FSA. Then it turned against him.
>>487653
Not really Syrian Intelligence services knew what Baghdadi and Alqadia in Iraq were planning not only did they not take action but actually facilitated this by providing and allowing them to ship weapons through the Syrian border. Likewise the overwhelming majority of air strikes by Assad were directed against the FSA even to the point of doing so during ISIS attacks on the FSA.
The advantage of this for the regime is that it allows the actions of ISIS to paint all resistance to the regime in in the same colour internationally and hence secure support and non interference as he BTFO's the rebels. Creating the dichotomy you see being supported here of ISIS or Assad.
Were it not for ISIS they would have faced extremely harsh sanctions and the FSA would be able to get much more support.
Assad is a very shrewd and clever man but he is a gambler and that might be his undoing
>>487645
Pretty sure you're thinking of Saudi Arabia
>>487981
You don't remember what happened in the earliest stages of the conflict? I swear some people literally have selective memories.
>>487823
This.
>people here are too young to remember when ISIS was called AQI and they were flowing into Iraq from Syria
>>487988
I remember everyone accused Assad of chemical weapons use and it turned out it was a lot of bull, and that the rebels were the ones using them. I remember that Saudi Arabia and Turkey have always supported the Army of Conquest, which is basically al-Qaeda: Syria edition.
I remember this recent gem
>Saudi Arabia has denounced the killing of a prominent Syrian rebel leader, saying his death in a Russian air strike last week did not serve the cause of peace in Syria.
>Zahran Alloush, 44, who headed the rebel group Jaysh al-Islam, was killed when Russian warplanes struck near Damascus last week.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-30/saudi-arabia-slams-russian-killing-of-syrian-rebel-leader/7060558
Such a quaint little organization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam#Ideology
You'll forgive me if I'm mistrustful of Western media after they repeatedly lied about Assad and the U.S. stays in bed with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. You'll forgive me if mistrustful of Western media when the U.S. lists PKK as drug traffickers with literally zero evidence and hates Rojava because of Turkey friendship
>>488012
I think you should stop viewing the conflict as good guys vs bad guys, both sides are equally immoral and opportunistic. Assad used ISIS as a way to fragment his opposition and it backfired on him, much like the shit that constantly happens to America.
Likewise notice how everyone is lambasting Turkey for trading oil with ISIS but some people conveniently forget Assad used to do the same.
>>488025
You do realize that Daesh has never been in serious conflict with most of the rebels, right? But has always been in serious conflict with the Syrian Army and the Kurds, right?
>>488062
That is factually wrong, just look at the battle of Kobani where the rebels fought on Kurdish side.
>Daesh
What's with this meme?
>>488089
Thing about tripfags is, their idiocracy sticks to them.
If you are using trips you should post very very carefully and with care, they rarely do.
>>488012
>Pretty sure you're thinking of Saudi Arabia
Not at all, saudis are playing a part but nowhere near as influential as Syria and the Assad Regime.
Take a look at which groups are receiving the bulk of the Syrian air strikes and read into the early history of ISIS and its predecessor Alqeda in Iraq.
>>488012
>You'll forgive me if I'm mistrustful of Western media after they repeatedly lied about Assad and the U.S. stays in bed with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. You'll forgive me if mistrustful of Western media when the U.S. lists PKK as drug traffickers with literally zero evidence and hates Rojava because of Turkey friendship
Just because the west puts out lies about Assad does not mean pro Assad information is all good and that he has clean hands in the conflict.
I know that you have a personal stake in him due to your religious affiliation but realize that to the regime the Christians in Syria are viewed pawns just as much as ISIS. Assad whilst not outright creating ISIS has played an imporant role in its formation and had the opertunity to kill it in its embryonic stages but did not. In seeking to avoid the misturths of one side you have gone to far and started believing the mistruthes in the other.
Assad has taken calculated risks to avoid the fate of Ghaddafi and Saddam and this is just part of that. Just like the West and just like Russia Syria too has its own goals in the region and like the above is perfectly willing to let inocents die for them
>>488089
300 FSA fighters (intially 50, more with U.S. urging) compared to 2000 Kurds and 9000 fighters total. Yeah, that's not serious conflict between the rebels and Daesh
>What's with this meme?
It's literally just the Arabic acronyms.
>>488143
*against 9000 fighters total
In other words, what I'm saying is that this was just token support because doing SOMETHING against Daesh was a condition of U.S. backing the FSA.
>>488115
>Assad whilst not outright creating ISIS has played an imporant role in its formation
They came out of Iraq in direct reaction to the...wait for it...Shia government.
>>488062
>You do realize that Daesh has never been in serious conflict with most of the rebels, right? But has always been in serious conflict with the Syrian Army and the Kurds, right?
That is is not right they have, indeed the Kurds and the FSA have invested greater amounts of manpower dealing with the ISIS. The SAA hasnt made any serious attempts by itself to attack ISIS or repel them nor use its airforce against them. Assad is perfectly happy to trade territory in the desert and a few oil fields to keep ISIS and its diplomatic capital around.
Until the rebels are no longer a threat he wont take any serious action against ISIS unless it looks like the West would intervene heavily against him
Christians have had this very same argument and it's the reason there was things like the iconoclasm and why protestants abandoned the catholic propensity to depict Jesus on the cross.
Basically not even Christians can agree on what idolatry is.
>>488155
The Kurds range from either neutral to openly supportive of Assad (such as with the PKK, whose ideology shaped Rojava). Assad in fact has a deal with them to gain special autonomy in Syrian Kurdistan (not an dependent state, but one with relatively little interference from the state government) as well as full Kurdish citizenship.
>>488163
not an *independent
>>488153
>They came out of Iraq in direct reaction to the...wait for it...Shia government.
Assad doesnt want a strong Iraq, hes learnt the dangers of that with Saddam. The mistake you make is to assume religion is the most important motivation for Assad when it is clearly not.
Likewise I reiterate look into how they actually "came out" ISIS just didnt pop up one day they are a result of over decade of conflict.
Are you actually going to refute the points in my posts or just post reaction pics and memes?
Have you not noticed how after the ISIS debacle western opposition for Assad has diminished hugley compared to its early days?
>>488163
You are missing the entire point of the post. The Kurds and to a lesser extent the FSA are devoting more effort to dealing with ISIS than the Assad Regime is.
>>488189
Saddam was Sunni. Current Iraq is Shia, that is what Daesh was so butthurt about.
>The mistake you make is to assume religion is the most important motivation for Assad when it is clearly not
You make the mistake of thinking religion and politics are separate spheres in the Middle East. Shia Islam is not just a belief, it is a political orientation and alliance.
>>488195
SAA has been putting more work in fighting the rebels, certainly, but both they and Hezbollah have definitely and extensively engaged Daesh, more so than the most of the Syrian Rebel factions.
>>488200
>Saddam was Sunni.
He was a regional power broker and more secular (until he started loosing the war with Iran) as well. When he fell the power vacuum in that area benefited Syria and the Kurds. Likewise it also offered up valuable oil access to Syrian black marketers.
>Current Iraq is Shia, that is what Daesh was so butthurt about.
You are simplifying these too much Alqueda in Iraq, only managed to gain popularity in the North (predominatnly Sunni) parts of Iraq after the Shia government drove them from Baghdad (indeed compare the religious demographic change of that city) and marginalized them from the government and military. Indeed they deliberatley provked the shia and worked to harm any healing of relations via bombings. It was not only this dedication to inter Islamic violence but also Baghdadis cadres ambitions that lead to them being booted out of Alqueda and why they had to form their own group.
I dont disagree at all about religion being important but it is not as simplisitic as you cut it.
>You make the mistake of thinking religion and politics are separate spheres in the Middle East. Shia Islam is not just a belief, it is a political orientation and alliance.
In none of my posts did I say that religion and politics were separate spheres, you are strawmanning me.
>>488143
>moving the goalposts
Just give up.
>>488218
>SAA has been putting more work in fighting the rebels
Only by allowing foreign countries to commit air raids. The Syrian Airforce is almost enterily used against rebels.
>but both they and Hezbollah have definitely and extensively engaged Daesh,
They have engaged, but never seriously or in any way that would threaten ISIS's ability to function. At best they support defensive maneuvers and the actions of the Kurds.
>more so than the most of the Syrian Rebel factions.
Most being the key word there see the above
Syria, Russia and the US all talk the talk about destroying ISIS but they don't seem very committed to that idea at least for now.
Constantine I recall in another thread of yours you take all your political views and outlooks from the Orthodox Church as a result of your faith in their divine mission.
Are your views on the Syrian situation an example of this?
>>488231
But I didn't >>488062
>serious
>most
>>488223
Do you understand why Iraq is so, so very friendly with Iran today, as opposed to under Saddam?
>>488236
>>488236
>The Syrian Airforce is almost enterily used against rebels.
Who are backed by enormous foreign powers. But that doesn't mean they haven't put in plenty of work on Daesh.
>>488236
>They have engaged, but never seriously or in any way that would threaten ISIS's ability to function
http://syria.liveuamap.com/
The Red is SAA. Look at where Daesh operating relative to them, look at how they are sandwiched by the rebels, and think logistically and realistically for a moment.
>>488246
I support Assad because I support Orthodox Christians, yes. Because Assad will protect them, but the people fighting him will not.
I do not consider Assad to be any solider of God, if that is what you're asking. But I do consider support for him to be the only option for a Christian.
>>488249
>Do you understand why Iraq is so, so very friendly with Iran today, as opposed to under Saddam?
I do, do you understand that Assad actually can and does benift from a weak Iraq regardless of its religious leadership?
>Who are backed by enormous foreign powers.
Their backing is extreemly limited compared to Assads who actually gets military strikes done by foreign missles and air forces as well as sales of weaponry.
>But that doesn't mean they haven't put in plenty of work on Daesh.
Of course that doesnt, the fact that they barley use their airforce now or prior to the intervention to engage ISIS as well as their decisions not to seriously oppose them outside of supporting Kurds (which is fairly small at that) is what shows their motivation and lack of work.
>The Red is SAA. Look at where Daesh operating relative to them, look at how they are sandwiched by the rebels, and think logistically and realistically for a moment.
You know the conflict has been going on for a number of years and that map reflects the early years and tacit support of ISIS as well right? Including their effective retreat and half assed defence of those eastern cities. Likewise when it comes to logistics you are underestimating the value of their air and resource superiority.
>>488252
>I support Assad because I support Orthodox Christians, yes. Because Assad will protect them, but the people fighting him will not.
Is that to the point that you cannot accept anything which would suggest his motives are self serving and not out of any form of benevolence? Assad is a man who lives by divide and conquer and religious and tribal differences are his best weapons.
>But I do consider support for him to be the only option for a Christian.
Do you consider that as something that can be anything other than supporting a necessary evil? Ie akin to the allies forming an alliance with the USSR?
>>488284
>I do, do you understand that Assad actually can and does benift from a weak Iraq regardless of its religious leadership?
No, he doesn't, because now Iraq is not buddies with Saudi Arabia, as they were under Saddam. Assad benefits from a weak Iraq like the USSR would benefit from a weak Cuba under Castro.
>Their backing is extreemly limited compared to Assad
They have a ton of backing, including by Turkey, and Saudi Arabia (which has the third largest military budget in the world) and the U.S. If the backing hasn't been as overt in regard to things like airstrikes, it's because of concern that a war with Russia could be triggered by fights in Sryian's airspace.
>You know the conflict has been going on for a number of years and that map reflects the early years and tacit support of ISIS as well right?
That map is current and constantly updated, m8
>>488294
>Is that to the point that you cannot accept anything which would suggest his motives are self serving and not out of any form of benevolence?
Why should I care? Assad isn't a Christian, of course he has no great affinity for them religiously, but he himself is an Alwaite (considered by some Sunni extremists to be "worse than Christians or Jews" despite recognition from Iran as Shia Islam), and it is in his best interests for numerous angles to maintain religious freedom.
>Do you consider that as something that can be anything other than supporting a necessary evil?
I do not consider Assad to be a great person, but I definitely don't consider him evil in the sense that the USSR was (or the U.S., in terms of foreign policy).
>>488319
>No, he doesn't, because now Iraq is not buddies with Saudi Arabia, as they were under Saddam.
Iraq was a threat to Saudi Arabia as well which is why they were only too glad to support and join in the first gulf war.
The Saudis were only ever friends with Saddam when he was taking the fight to Iran. Which is the eternal boogyman to the Saudis and their Shia underclass.
>Assad benefits from a weak Iraq like the USSR would benefit from a weak Cuba under Castro.
Wholly different scale, Iraq wasnt a Cuba to Syria. A more apt description would to say how China would benefit from a weak USSR.
>They have a ton of backing, including by Turkey, and Saudi Arabia (which has the third largest military budget in the world) and the U.S. If the backing hasn't been as overt in regard to things like airstrikes, it's because of concern that a war with Russia could be triggered by fights in Sryian's airspace.
Ah I see your mistake here, they dont have a ton of backing they have big supports however those supporters and making a big effort. As to your second point this is incorrect as the US and Turkey have been backing the FSA well before Russian planes were on the scene.
>That map is current and constantly updated, m8
Thats exactly my point, the current map is the way it is in a large part due to the choice Assad made to support the formation of ISIS.
>>488333
>Why should I care? Assad isn't a Christian, of course he has no great affinity for them religiously, but he himself is an Alwaite (considered by some Sunni extremists to be "worse than Christians or Jews" despite recognition from Iran as Shia Islam), and it is in his best interests for numerous angles to maintain religious freedom.
Because he stokes religious intolerance and conflict between groups and helps create antiaphty between them in a manner akin to what happened in Rawanda with the Hutu and the Tutsi
Its in his best interest to maintain tension otherwise his brand of authoritarianism would not be justified.
>I do not consider Assad to be a great person, but I definitely don't consider him evil in the sense that the USSR was (or the U.S., in terms of foreign policy).
But do you consider him to be a necessary evil?
By supporting Assad one supports the fostering of religious tension and anger towards Christians and the impossibility of the historic harmony enjoyed in the region.
>>488361
I forgot to add that whilst people like Assad rule the region there will never be peace between religions. The only value he has is that he is more desriable than the beast he has created which will predominate unless serious intervention is considered.
>>488350
>Iraq was a threat to Saudi Arabia as well which is why they were only too glad to support and join in the first gulf war.
Iraq was never a thread to Saudi Arabia in any way under Saddam, you seriously don't understand the Sunni-Shiite there is like Capitalist-Commie, with Saudi Arabia vs. Iran playing the two top dogs. Going Sunni or Shia generally aligns you with one or the other. Assad is Shia, Houthis are Shia, Iraq is Shia, Hezbollah is Shia. Turkey's backing of Barzani heading a new Kurdish state out of Iraq is based mostly on Barzani being Sunni; their coziness could have completely secular concerns, but the Sunni-Shia thing is a political camp as well.
>A more apt description would to say how China would benefit from a weak USSR.
Post Stalin, yes. Because they had an ideological split with Khrushchev.
> As to your second point this is incorrect as the US and Turkey have been backing the FSA well before Russian planes were on the scene.
But Russia had been partisan and actively supporting since before the U.S. was. Both sides were reluctant to start bombing those each other supported for a very long time, for obvious reasons, because once you step over the line, then the other party very well might, and that could very easily lead to war.
>Thats exactly my point, the current map is the way it is in a large part due to the choice Assad made to support the formation of ISIS.
Daesh, an organization initially formed for pretty much no other purpose than to kill Shiites, came directly out of a very Saudi backed group, and Saudi Arabia wants Assad out. Think for a moment.
>>488361
Tension is why he can't control the country, derp.
>>488369
The beast he created that's funded and largely supported by Turkey and Saudi Arabia? C'mon, dude. How exactly does Assad foment religious tension?
>>488397
>Iraq was never a thread to Saudi Arabia in any way under Saddam
I was when after he turned his attentions and left over weaponry gulfward, which is why the Saudis literally helped invade Iraq. There was a legitimate fear he might push to recliam the whole neutral zone that once existed between them and threaten the oil fields which very close to the border.
>Post Stalin, yes. Because they had an ideological split with Khrushchev.
Post Stalin only because China was so terribly weak prior.
>But Russia had been partisan and actively supporting since before the U.S. was. Both sides were reluctant to start bombing those each other supported for a very long time, for obvious reasons, because once you step over the line, then the other party very well might, and that could very easily lead to war.
The point is that the US could have easily sent in air strikes or even imposed no fly zones like they did with Saddam had they the political will but chose not to.
>Daesh, an organization initially formed for pretty much no other purpose than to kill Shiites,
Not true see
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/13/alqaida.iraq
ISIS formed over a decade of struggle and went though numerous ideological changes. The Assad regime has supported this changing group through allowing it to sell blackmarket oil and travel and receive fighters through its borders.
He knows full well they dont actually threaten his rule.
>Tension is why he can't control the country, derp.
Its entirely the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
>>488399
>The beast he created that's funded and largely supported by Turkey and Saudi Arabia? C'mon, dude
Remeber how I said he was a gambler earlier on? He fostered ISIS and has given it berth to have some freedom to horrify in the north east. (for the reasons disscused earlier) Other people with interests in seeing his or the kurds decline are trying to turn this against him.
A good comparison and one which would be very personal to you is to think of the example of the Lenin and the German Empire. They took a gamble with Lenin it worked out for them initially then backfired when it took a life of its own.
>How exactly does Assad foment religious tension?
Well
-as an Arab country and a semi socialist one patronage is a huge part of their culture, hence divvying up political, economic and military positions and powers in a way that is weighted dispratioinatly to a religious minority - see lebanon pre 2000's for an interesting example
-secondly was the use of regime men to unofficially antagonize the religious majority through slurs and petty crime/corruption.
As you can see this is a dangerous combination but one that is sadly all too common is post WWI middle east. Its also why Syria has always been much more unstable than say places like Egypt and Jordan.
>>488397
Oh and here is a meme for you in the style you enjoy
>>486267
Okay then, i challenge you this:
List all ten Commandments, as the scriptures number/list them
>>486457
You are either an Arian, a hypocrite, or you just dont know what the hell your own religion teaches. And i dont know which is worse
>>486499
So you deny the Dual Nature then?
>>486305
There is nothing special about a Bible itself. It is a set of pages with ink on it representing words. You should treat it with as much or as little respect as you treat any other book. The important thing are the words itself, but even those were written by men and merely inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why would anyone worship it? It conveys extremely important information you should pay attention to, but that's it.
>>485442
Nice try, Urban, but you need to pull your dick out of little Timmy's ass first.
Luther, when translating the bible to vernacular and preaching his own protestant doctrine, derived most of his teachings from original scriptures written by the Church Fathers and even found contradictions within the Catholic church. Many people use the 'muh church heritage' meme but lutheranism and protestantism itself derives from historic scriptures.
>>487391
Not too well read on Jewish theology, huh?
>>487405
>the Talmud does indeed say Jesus is being boiled alive in excrement in hell.
Well, if you're going to be entirely honest about everything, you have to put the caveat that the character referred to in that particular story is not universally believed to be Jesus.
While I won't argue that sections of the Talmud aren't kind to Christians, everyone should be careful about quoting parts of it.
>>491577
>bitter Jews living in Medieval Germany
>Not damning Jesus Christ in their kike books
So iconoclasts, why did God command the ark of the covenant have depictions of angels carved on it's ends?
Wouldn't that be "idolatry"?
>>491596
Please read the entire post.
>I won't argue that sections of the Talmud aren't kind to Christians
But yes, it's not clear who Yeshu (the guy in boiling in excrement) is. A lot of academics have just sort of decided that it's Jesus because we live in a world where people see Christianity in everything. Even toast.
>>491577
Please read posts before replying:
>I won't argue that sections of the Talmud aren't kind to Christians
>>491602
Also note that the Ark was venerated.
"And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads."
>>491604
Yeah, not like Jews living under Christian superiors who can't read or understand their language wouldn't use that advantage to talk shit about the Jew who did well when the rest of them became universally hated.
This isn't some paranoia, there is no reason other than being a kike apologist to think they wouldn't damn the false messiah who took over Europe while Judaism shattered.
>>482488
If the Pope approves it's not idolatry.
Making an image that is supposedly Jesus and worshiping it, the rosary, praying to saints, exalting Mary, are utter blasphemy against God. God is a jealous God and exaltation should be ascribed to Him alone
Our worship to God must be through the leading of the Holy Spirit, and truth meaning that it should be according to the revealed word of God. God did not say we ought to worship or pray to Mary or saints.
Doing otherwise is defiance of His word. The bible says that idolaters will have their part in the Lake of fire.
False gods and graven images do not save, only Jesus saves.
>>491619
>Christian superiors who can't read or understand their language
Wrong. Christians censored the Talmud all the time.
>there is no reason other than being a kike apologist to think they wouldn't damn the false messiah who took over Europe while Judaism shattered.
Unless you realize that Jews don't give half a shekel about your crappy goy religion.
>>491640
Yeah enjoy your minuscule piece of dirt, universal hatred of your kind and your nation only surviving thanks to the USA.
Meanwhile Christianity has spread the whole world, with all races accepting it to some degree.
Kike
>>482519
>Jews
I wish we could stop this meme. People say Jews as if Judaism is some monolithic religion spanning thousands of years. It's not.
You can't talk about Christians worshiping the Pope without people pointing out that only Catholics think what he has to say is important. Some "Christians" don't even believe in the Trinity.
The religion called "Judaism" now is a wide range of philosophy and theology that has a development and a following that is not contiguous at all. The faith that the Israelites had after conquering Canaan was fractured and influenced by foreign religions to the point that they largely believed Yahweh was a (little g) god alongside Baal, Remphan, and other Canaanite, Mesopotamian, and Egyptian deities. Even according to Biblical tradition, all of Yahweh's priests (except 1) were slaughtered by the Baal priests until they were defeated by Elijah. Even before, in the book of Judges, Gideon's whole function is to kill the Baalites and destroy their places of worship.
Later on, you had the influence of extra-Biblical oral traditions (later written down as the Babylonian Talmud) in the teachings and practices of the Pharisee faction of Rabbis, who ultimately won out against the Sadducees. It has been largely unknown what happened to the Sadducees, but it has been speculated that they may have influenced the Torah Jews because of their Torah-centric beliefs as opposed to the Pharisee's Talmud-centric beliefs. It has also been speculated that the Torah-centric Jews had more in common with the Judaical beliefs of early Christians and converted to Christianity.
Because of this, it could be said that the Pharisees represented a drastic rethinking of Jewish tradition and belief that warrant it being called a different religion. Most Jews today (Talmudic) believe that the Torah is little more than the folk tales of their people. They regard the Talmud as the highest source of scripture.
When talking history, you have to say what kind of Jew.
>>491715
I'd have more tolerance of Jews if I was still a Christian. Fucking Jew apologist are cancer, defending that nepotist cabal of human garbage.
praying to saints is idoltary
>>492291
Why?
>>491338
Sola FIDE and Siola Scriptura aren't in the teachings of the Church Fathers Dumbfuck
>>492291
>praying to saints is idoltary
So is praying to the "virgin" Marry.
Christianity, whichever sect you prescribe to is pretty lax at following it's own dogmas.
Which makes it the most bearable religion of all. At this moment.
>>492487
Not him but protestantism is basically Augustine on steroids.
>>492564
Correct. But, Augustine on steroids is NOT what Augustine would've wanted. While Catholicism respected this, Protestantism didn't and spawned a new monster by taking his theology even further
>>486297
That's a nice argument against
>>488115
>Saudis are playing a part but nowhere near as influential as Syria and the Assad Regime.
What in the everloving fuck am I reading? Is this an actual opinion someone has?
>>491628
>he thinks anyone worships images of Jesus
>he thinks anyone worships beads
>he thinks anyone prays to saints
>he doesn't think that Mary is blessed amongst women
>>494556
>Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee. 24 For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 4:23–24
>>482594
Well, they actually do.
>>494750
According to Prottie shit logic, this is idolatry
>>494750
Textbooks are idolatrous according to Prot logic.
Textbooks contain the image of things and also the likeness of things
>>487520
>We found out it was the rebels who used the chemical weapons
The attack in E. Ghouta was carried out by the government according to the UN
>and it turns out the entire idea that the police were firing on protesters before protesters started burning buildings and killing cops, comes entirely from one kid who went to jail for graffiti.
That's not true
>None of his neighbor corroborated anything except that he went to jail.
There were 15 children in Daraa who were tortured for writing graffiti
>Assad's a pretty good guy, honestly.
wew lad
>>488012
>You'll forgive me if I'm mistrustful of Western media after they repeatedly lied about Assad and the U.S. stays in bed with Saudi Arabia and Turkey. You'll forgive me if mistrustful of Western media when the U.S. lists PKK as drug traffickers with literally zero evidence and hates Rojava because of Turkey friendship
You're very misinformed.
>>494750
He says, posting on a type of website commonly called an IMAGEboard.
>>486297
i just dont. when i pray i just feel i do not visualize
>>484910
Yes they do. Many ancient cultures treated statues as real gods, offering them food, dressing them in clothes, etc. I don't remember exactly now, but I'm pretty sure Canaanites and Mesopotamians did it too.
>>485218
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/one-mediator-between-god-and-men
>>486412
It didn't.
>>494977
It also says "the likeness of any thing".
>>495061
point taken
>>494977
If carving the likeness of something is wrong then clearly depicting the likeness of something is wrong. Carving is just one way of visually depicting a thing.
>>495061
The Ark had likeness, and the Hebrews venerated.
The OT wasn't written for autists. It was written for people who knew it was referring to making gods out of cats and jackals like the Egyptians did.
