So how many people here actually speak/read Latin, Koine or Attic Greek, Sanskrit, Old English, shit like that?
Daily reminder that if you can't read the primary sources of your area of study in its original language you are the fucking definition of a plebeian
Ok
>>476609
One may think that someone vindicating languages in general and Latin in particular would be able to use the word "plebeian" correctly.
>>476618
>butthurt monoglot detected
kek, laughing scholars.jpeg
>>476623
The butthurt is strong in this one.
>>476609
I understand old German dialects from around 1300 onwards. Also had two years of Latin, but forgot most of it.
>>476609
I can read and write in Biblical Hebrew.
Mostly, it makes me wonder why translations of the Bible are so universally bad.
>>476646
Most English translations of the Old Testament are based off of the Septuagint, the Bible written in Koine Greek by the Greeks of Alexandria for the Jews living there who weren't able to read Hebrew.
The New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek. So if possible, you should really read the Koine Greek Gospel to get the real wording.
As for the Old Testament, Greek (especially Attic and Koine Greek) is a highly inflected language, and translating it into English loses much of its meaning. Then realize that the Septuagint itself is a translation of Hebrew, which isn't even an Indo-European language, and you've got a clusterfuck of "lost in translation."
I can understand Classical Chinese well enuf with some vocab help and background understanding of the era I'm going to read
>>476609
can read old slavic
>>476680
The thing is, most non English translations are also pretty bad. Even Jerome's Vulgate has plenty of errors. (At least, by reputation: I don't know enough Latin to truly make a stab at his accuracy)
And even Non-Christian translations often have enormous problems. Here, take the infamous Isahiah 7:14 verse, with the KJV translation.
>Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Here's the Hebrew.
>לכן יתן אדני הוא לכם אות הנה העלמה הרה וילדת בן וקראת שמו עמנו אל
People trying to claim that the verse isn't about Jesus, usually Jews, will almost inevitably focus on העלמה and bicker endlessly about whether it means "Virgin" or simply a "young woman"
If I were to throw my hat in the ring, I would say you have a way better argument pointing out the next word, הרה does not mean "shall conceive" or any variation of that, because the word's got a third person, male, and most importantly past tense conjugation. Our עלמה is not being said to conceive in the future, she's been impregnated in the past. You won't see too many people make that argument. And this isn't some great nuance or something, it's not splitting important hairs of meaning: this is basic, simple conjugation, the sort of which you should be able to do within a week or so of studying the language.
>>476835
Well, I don't read Alien hieroglyphs so that Hebrew you wrote could say anything and I'll have to take your word on it, lol.
But yeah, like I said, I think most of the trouble comes from the fact that translations into other languages are almost always going from a heavily inflected language like Koine Greek, or a non Indo-European language like Biblical Hebrew, into modern day languages that are much less inflected and less related.
It seems a Latin translation should be relatively accurate however. Not sure why it isn't.
ρωμαιkως τε kαι ελληνιστι λεγειν δυναμαι εγωγε, χαλεπως δε.
>>476609
>tfw my language hasn't changed significally in the last 1000 years
I always kek at indoeurocucks and their madeup languages
>>477072
What's your language?
Mandarin doesn't count. Just because you can read goblin pictograms from 10,000 years ago doesn't mean the spoken language has not changed.
>>477083
I'm Hungarian
>>476609
I can read fart English, but so can anyone with a STEM degree.
>>477118
lel, you have literally nothing to be proud of.
>>476609
I can read and understand old Scots. It's similar enough to my dialect that I have no trouble with it.
I can read old castilian, and speak basque but modern basque is just a fucked up languague made by some nationalists in the XIX century. They fucked it so bad that no one that actually knows euskera can read any medieval basque found in religious texts. They ruined it. Something similar happened with the Catalan, only that in this time they added french stuff to remove any castilian influence (with is plain stupid) but in this case they didn't fucked it and modern valencià is very similar to old català.
Ofc no one will accept this in Spain or he will be tagged as "fascist"
>>476609
I write/read pre-War Japanese as often as I can, but rarely does anyone manage to respond.
>>476700
Church Slavic =/= Old Slavic, tovarisch.
learned a little koine. I can read it but have no idea what the fuck I'm reading
>>477155
I am proud of my nation, but not proud of myself for being part of the nation
>>476609
>speak/read Latin
I fucking wish.
Does anyone know of any decent resources for learning?
>>476646
>makes me wonder why translations of the Bible are so universally bad
they weren't at first, but then Protestants needed to make more and more translations in order to get around patents and make more money selling their version of the Scriptures.
Basically it's all their fault for being schismatic heathens with no compunctions about altering the Bible just to make a profit.
>>477313
Wheelock's Latin is the classic for starting. Past that, try to get a hold of Latin readers and old works like Cicero's Orations and shit like that.
As for pronouncing it, if you really want to learn how to pronounce it the classical way, you'll need to talk to scholars and teachers. We've more or less reconstructed how the Romans spoke Latin classically through puns, misspellings, and works by grammarians. There are only a few mysteries still left on pronunciation, like whether the R sound should be trilled or in the back of the throat.
What I'm getting at is this: a book like Wheelock's Latin will teach you all you want to know about grammar, syntax, and vocabulary. But if you want to learn how to pronounce it correctly when speaking, you'll need to probably attend a class hosted by a university of something.
Of course, if you don't want to learn Classical Latin, you can easily attend an Ecclesiastical Latin course. Ecclesiastical Latin is pronounced almost nothing like the Ancients did, it's basically Latin in an Italian accent. But it is arguably more useful.
>>477324
This.
King James is the standard for English. There's nothing wrong with Revised Standard Edition if you're trying to learn what is being talked about in an easier way before moving onto the more archaic style of the King James Version, that way you aren't totally lost as to what is being said. But there are some really fuckin' heretical translations out there whose only purpose is to justify whichever American McChurch that uses it.
>>477324
No, really, they were always pretty bad. Show me a Catholic or Orthodox Bible that points out that the same ערום used to describe the Serpent in Genesis 3:1 can be used to mean "naked" as well as your choice of some adjective meaning clever; which is an important link given the role of nakedness surrounding the whole Garden of Eden thing.
>>476609
I'm a turkish historian (ongoing M.A. in Classics) I know Latin, Greek and some Demotic (just learned the latter for fun).
T.bh pham if you are not going to pursue History Academically you don't need to learn a dead language. Also due to the modern scholarship It would be better to learn German-French to broaden your horizon. Rather than spending time just to read one source you are curious about.
If you are a layman just read fucking loebs. They are quite a literal translation (sometimes this broeks harmony but still its better) and footnotes etc are really explanatory.
>>476609
I study Classics with a major in Classical Attic Greek, and I can read it fairly well.
I need a dictionary for Thucydides though, because he's a fag with all those neologisms.
>>477384
Wait, are you trying to tell me the Bible wasn't written in English by Jesus himself?
>>477388
I'm not a professional historian, but i've been learning latin and koine greek for fun for a few years now. I'm a sailor by trade, I have long months at sea where there is jack shit to do other than read so I like to take a pretty scholarly attitude towards history. Of course whenever I try to argue a point with an historian I'm usually completely disregarded because I don't have a piece of paper that says I'm an expert in it, but I would argue that 9 years of studying history on my own for hours a day, and translating primary sources gives me the right to be heard same as any other historian.
>>477400
thats some rare pepe...
>>477409
pls no saving
>>477408
Added to this, I frequently write my own conclusions and theories on history, and I've shown a couple to a friend of mine who is a professional historian, and he agrees that they're on par with many of his peers. He just said I lack the same process or outline that most historians do it as or something, I don't remember what he said
>>477408
>>477430
meh, having a PhD doesn't make you an expert either. Socratesque, more you study more you realize you know nothing. Maybe I would put more weight into someone with a PhD not because of a paper but because he knows (at least nominally) historical method , how to do research etc etc. But I never dismiss people without a degree though, thats bad sport. As long as one can cite sources etc
ffs its just discussing-debating, its not like you are writing a paper for a journal. Sometimes I don't get this elitism.
>>477408
My point about language was that by learning German French etc you could also read their scholarly works and commentaries. Unless you want to be an expert/academican on Illiad I would not suggest learning Homeric Greek.l Learning German and French and reading German-French scholars works about illiad
would be more beneficiary than learning Homeric Greek.
Its just a personal preference but I think translations are okay and dead languages are a waste of time for non academics, but if you are really into that stuf by all means do it.
>>477444
Well I also studied German in high school and college, I would say I'm more or less fluent in it as I talk to German friends of mine quite often. I sometimes read old German books, but I've never read any German academic articles on history and stuff. I also speak Spanish, although I can't spell it or read it (growing up in Texas basically necessitates learning to speak Spanish). Never really had a desire to learn French though and I don't plan to start. Nothing about France really interests me to be honest family
>>477409
I have Sumerian pepe too.
>>477456
>>477452
Classics are dominated by French and German scholarship imho (more french or more german depending on the specific subject). There are many commentaries about spesific aspects Hellenistic religion in French, where German-english sources are lacking etc. I'm learning french just because of them. But if you care more about primary texts than commentaries and having fun learning greek-latin then who am I to stop you.
As I said I just think learning dead languages less rewarding than learning modern langauges
>>476609
I can read a little Middle low German AKA the language of northern Germany and the Teutonic crusading order.
>>477487
This. Also, I requested this before and never got it. Does anyone have the Hannibal Barca Pepe with the results of the Battle of Cannae in the background?
>>477487
>>477503
>Hannibal Barca Pepe with the results of the Battle of Cannae in the background?
Such a pepe exists? Holy hell
>>477512
Yeah, it was probably one of the best Pepes I've ever seen, but sadly I was on my phone and I didn't save it. Woe is me
>>477512
There are many pepes.
This is not the one you seek.
>>477118
aren't most of your primary sources written in Latin anyway?
>>477554
I think you're thinking of Romania, m8o. They wrote almost all of their official documents in Latin right up to like WWII or something. Of course it's very possible Hungary did the same as well. Eastern Europe clung onto Latin for a long time. For many years Latin was the language that educated Polacks used with each other.
>>476609
I effectively speak old norse, but I'm Icelandic so maybe that's cheating.
