Let's discuss Jews, /his/. Jews, Juice, Jews, potentially one of the most controversial peoples in the history of humanity.
This thread will be dedicated to understanding their history Jewish people, whether good or bad. /pol/ need not apply - instead of demonizing and fabricating conspiracy theories try to take an unbiased examination. There's this image flying around of a a list of places where Jews were expelled from, but instead of assuming they were evildoers examine each situation separately and decide whether they are actually to blame. Was it punishment? Was it persecution? Was it just a general policy to which the Jews fell along with other?
Let's start firstly with articulating what a Jew is - from the very beginning.
The earliest record for a Jew, or a proto-Jew, is Abraham, according to the Old Testament of course. A man who came from Uruk to the Holy Land. Up until entering Egypt it's safe to say that the Hebrews, still a small tribe, interbreed with the Canaanites in the area. Making Hebrews a generic Mesopotamian Semitic people, distinct only by religion. After entering Egypt, of course only allegedly, and staying there for several generation, and, as the OT tells us, a disconnection from the Hebrew religion, it wouldn't be surprising if they interbreed there as well. After Exodus, some Canaanite genocides, conversion by the sworn, shifty alliances, and eventual expansion of the Hebrew peoples 12 tribes emerged. A tribal confederation basically, if using modern terms. Strife and power struggles were always present, until eventually the era of kings came, unifying the Holy Land under one crown. Of course succession struggles happened then as well. Through war and peace, the Holy Land came to be a weak state, serving as a client kingdom to bigger empires throughout the second half of the 2nd millennium BC and throughout the 1st millennium BC. Of course, time and date are debatable, given not much survived except the OT.
1/?
>>465094
So where exactly do the modern Jews claim to come from - or rather, when did "Hebrew" become "Jew"?
At a certain point, still according to the OT, the Holy Land was split into two kingdoms - the Kingdom of Israel in the north - consisting of the 10 tribes; and the Kingdom of Judea in the south - consisting of the two biggest tribes Judea and Benjamin, which were considered one tribe for some reason.
Now, don't catch me on this one, but this part I don't particularly remember. Whether it was 10 tribes in the north and 2 in the south or 11 tribes in the north and 2 in the south but considered as 1 tribe.
Anyway, the at that point there was a significant split: The northern kingdom adopted pagan rituals and traditions, distancing itself from the Judaism, while the southern kingdom preserved its faith. This is perhaps where being a "true" Jew began. To be part of the ethnicity, you must also be part of the faith, or have ancestors bearing that faith. Which is why you'd hear often people saying they are secular Jews - they bear Jewish traditions, they identify as Jews but they are atheists.
Having all of this in mind you need to remember that a certain portion of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judea were taken into exile to Babylon. There they developed Jewish mysticism, adopted the local custom and broke a connection with the Jews still in the Holy Land. A good example is the story of Purim, where Mordechai and Esther foil the plans of Aman (a sort of a proto-Hitler if you will). The names of Moderchai and Esther (Ishtar) are obviously a direct influence of Babylonian culture.
After the Persian conquest and thus liberation of the Jews, some Jews returned to the Holy Land, some stayed. Marking an even bigger cultural separation.
2/?
>The earliest record for a Jew is Abraham
First post and already blatantly incorrect, Jews are the descendants of Judah, or people who lived in the Kingdom of Judah, whichever you prefer. You're essentially saying Abraham was a descendant of his great-grandson.
Incorrectly and anachronistically calling all Hebrews or Israelites "Jews" is a result of two things:
>Jews were the ones exiled to Babylon where they began writing the post-Pentateuch books
>Jews use this tactic to deliberately exclude other legitimate Israelites (such as the Samaritans) from Israel
>>465141
>The northern kingdom adopted pagan rituals and traditions, distancing itself from the Judaism, while the southern kingdom preserved its faith.
Another horseshit and Jewish retcon. David and Solomon themselves were idolaters, even the Tanakh mentions this little fact. David also descended from impure (Moabite) blood through Ruth, so it's pretty preposterous to claim southerners preserved anything.
daily reminder that jews are bro tier
>>465141
As for what happened to the other 10 tribes of the north - no one is sure. They were dispersed, disappeared. In modern times there were claims that these tribes were taken to far and wide. Some in Peru, some in India, some in China etc. These people are not considered proper Jews, although some were accepted. There were even outcries in Israel that these people are simply pretenders, trying to escape a poverty ridden country and get a free pass ticket into Israel.
How these Jews, so to speak, emerged in the far corners of the world, is probably due to conversion in older times, and managing to maintain a religious community. After the Roman-Jewish war the Roman Empire swelled with slaves from Palestine, spread far and wide. Although Judaism is a non-missionary religion, that is only relevant to modern times. Examples of conversion by the sword to Judaism are given in the Bible (iirc the Edomites) and it wouldn't be unheard of that the exiled Jews inside the Roman Empire spread their religion across, either by converting a marriage partner, or either by locals of distinct corners wishing to convert. This also explain why there there are racially and culturally different groups - Ashkenazi, Mizrahi, Spharadi, Ethiopian, Slavic. Persians (already explained) etc.
Two more Jewish groups are the Karait Jews and Samaritans - sadly I cannot tell much about them but what I do know is that they are not considered proper Jews, even less than the alleged 10 tribes. Mostly because they did not advance with the mainstream Judaism, and I believe that is mostly due to their small number. There was even a case of a Jewish revolt of the Samaritans or Karaits, can't remember, in Byzantine Judea, but they were slaughtered by the masses and never recovered since.
3/3
>>465202
They didn't preserve anything. Their only advantage was the fact they didn't get utterly rekt like the northerners and then got to write the story after themselves got rekt by the Babylonians.
There's also some decent evidence that the southern kingdom was literally an irrelevant shithole and the Babylonian writers bloated up its importance.
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136/ref=la_B001ITVU2Y_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451130427&sr=1-1
>>465253
Yes, that's true. But I stressed out in my posts that I am telling as was written in the OT.
>>465094
yeah it would be cool if you discussed history with an actual document instead of a mythological story.
>>465370
That's a bad way to discuss the history of the Jews without bias. The OT is propagnda from Antiquity.
>>465167
>>465167
Indeed. I can't think of a people that have suffered more. They've been forcefully ejected from 109 locations since AD250.
The way they're treated today is sickening. It's 2015 ffs.
In 250 they were wrongfully expelled from Carthage
In 415 they were wrongfully expelled from Alexandria
In 554 they were wrongfully expelled from Diocèse of Clermont (France)
In 561 they were wrongfully expelled from Diocèse of Uzès (France)
In 612 they were wrongfully expelled from Visigoth Spain
In 642 they were wrongfully expelled from Visigoth Empire
In 855 they were wrongfully expelled from Italy
In 876 they were wrongfully expelled from Sens
In 1012 they were wrongfully expelled from Mainz
In 1182 they were wrongfully expelled from France
In 1182 they were wrongfully expelled from Germany
In 1276 they were wrongfully expelled from Upper Bavaria
In 1290 they were wrongfully expelled from England
In 1306 they were wrongfully expelled from France
In 1322 they were wrongfully expelled from France (again)
In 1348 they were wrongfully expelled from Switzerland
In 1349 they were wrongfully expelled from Hielbronn (Germany)
In 1349 they were wrongfully expelled from Saxony
In 1349 they were wrongfully expelled from Hungary
In 1360 they were wrongfully expelled from Hungary
In 1370 they were wrongfully expelled from Belgium
In 1380 they were wrongfully expelled from Slovakia
In 1388 they were wrongfully expelled from Strasbourg
In 1394 they were wrongfully expelled from Germany
In 1394 they were wrongfully expelled from France
In 1420 they were wrongfully expelled from Lyons
In 1421 they were wrongfully expelled from Austria
1/4
>>468532
In 1424 they were wrongfully expelled from Fribourg
In 1424 they were wrongfully expelled from Zurich
In 1424 they were wrongfully expelled from Cologne
In 1432 they were wrongfully expelled from Savoy
In 1438 they were wrongfully expelled from Mainz
In 1439 they were wrongfully expelled from Augsburg
In 1442 they were wrongfully expelled from Netherlands
In 1444 they were wrongfully expelled from Netherlands
In 1446 they were wrongfully expelled from Bavaria
In 1453 they were wrongfully expelled from France
In 1453 they were wrongfully expelled from Breslau
In 1454 they were wrongfully expelled from Wurzburg
In 1462 they were wrongfully expelled from Mainz
In 1483 they were wrongfully expelled from Mainz
In 1484 they were wrongfully expelled from Warsaw
In 1485 they were wrongfully expelled from Vincenza (Italy)
In 1492 they were wrongfully expelled from Spain
In 1492 they were wrongfully expelled from Italy
In 1495 they were wrongfully expelled from Lithuania
In 1496 they were wrongfully expelled from Naples
In 1496 they were wrongfully expelled from Portugal
In 1498 they were wrongfully expelled from Nuremberg
In 1498 they were wrongfully expelled from Navarre
In 1510 they were wrongfully expelled from Brandenberg
In 1510 they were wrongfully expelled from Prussia
In 1514 they were wrongfully expelled from Strasbourg
In 1515 they were wrongfully expelled from Genoa
In 1519 they were wrongfully expelled from Regensburg
In 1533 they were wrongfully expelled from Naples
In 1541 they were wrongfully expelled from Naples
In 1542 they were wrongfully expelled from Prague & Bohemia
In 1550 they were wrongfully expelled from Genoa
In 1551 they were wrongfully expelled from Bavaria
2/4
>>468534
In 1555 they were wrongfully expelled from Pesaro
In 1557 they were wrongfully expelled from Prague
In 1559 they were wrongfully expelled from Austria
In 1561 they were wrongfully expelled from Prague
In 1567 they were wrongfully expelled from Wurzburg
In 1569 they were wrongfully expelled from Papal States
In 1571 they were wrongfully expelled from Brandenburg
In 1582 they were wrongfully expelled from Netherlands
In 1582 they were wrongfully expelled from Hungary
In 1593 they were wrongfully expelled from Brandenburg, Austria
In 1597 they were wrongfully expelled from Cremona, Pavia & Lodi
In 1614 they were wrongfully expelled from Frankfort
In 1615 they were wrongfully expelled from Worms
In 1619 they were wrongfully expelled from Kiev
In 1648 they were wrongfully expelled from Ukraine
In 1648 they were wrongfully expelled from Poland
In 1649 they were wrongfully expelled from Hamburg
In 1654 they were wrongfully expelled from Little Russia (Beylorus)
In 1656 they were wrongfully expelled from Lithuania
In 1669 they were wrongfully expelled from Oran (North Africa)
In 1669 they were wrongfully expelled from Vienna
In 1670 they were wrongfully expelled from Vienna
In 1712 they were wrongfully expelled from Sandomir
In 1727 they were wrongfully expelled from Russia
In 1738 they were wrongfully expelled from Wurtemburg
3/4
>>468541
In 1740 they were wrongfully expelled from Little Russia (Beylorus)
In 1744 they were wrongfully expelled from Prague, Bohemia
In 1744 they were wrongfully expelled from Slovakia
In 1744 they were wrongfully expelled from Livonia
In 1745 they were wrongfully expelled from Moravia
In 1753 they were wrongfully expelled from Kovad (Lithuania)
In 1761 they were wrongfully expelled from Bordeaux
In 1772 they were wrongfully expelled from Deported to the Pale of Settlement (Poland/Russia)
In 1775 they were wrongfully expelled from Warsaw
In 1789 they were wrongfully expelled from Alsace
In 1804 they were wrongfully expelled from Villages in Russia
In 1808 they were wrongfully expelled from Villages & Countrysides (Russia)
In 1815 they were wrongfully expelled from Lbeck & Bremen
In 1815 they were wrongfully expelled from Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria
In 1820 they were wrongfully expelled from Bremen
In 1843 they were wrongfully expelled from Russian Border Austria & Prussia
In 1862 they were wrongfully expelled from Areas in the U.S. under General Grant's Jurisdiction[1]
In 1866 they were wrongfully expelled from Galatz, Romania
In 1880s they were wrongfully expelled from Russia
In 1891 they were wrongfully expelled from Moscow
In 1919 they were wrongfully expelled from Bavaria (foreign born Jews)
In 1938-45 they were wrongfully expelled from Nazi Controlled Areas
In 1948 they were wrongfully expelled from Arab Countries
4/4
>>468543
>In 1862 they were wrongfully expelled from Areas in the U.S. under General Grant's Jurisdiction
I call bullshit on this one.
>>468532
>>468534
>>468541
>>468543
Gee, it's like there's a reason nobody wanted them there...
>>468532
>>468534
>>468541
>>468543
>everyone from the Carthaginians and Romans to the Germans and Russians hate your fucking guts for some reason
>"Oy vey, anti-Semites! We dindu nuffin ya dumb goy!"
If I was fired from every job I ever had within 1 week of employment, I would stop blaming my employers and start wondering if it's me.
From descriptions in Revelations, Yahashua definitely exhibits sub-saharan traits (wooly hair, black skin). The middle East is extremely hot, so it makes more sense that the original Jews would be black. The Jew-wish people of today are white, descendants of esau. They are impostors.
Esau--hairy (Caucasian)
Jacob--smooth (black, little body hair)
>>469040
WE
>>469042
Were Hebrew Israelites. Go back to /int/ with your memes.
>>469040
It says bronze skin, not black. You lying nigger.
>>469044
>>465094
They are humanity's professional scapegoats. Is it justified? I don't know but i feel like they are an easy target when you need people to not look at you if you fucked up.
>>468982
>what is General Order No.11
>>469111
None of them? The difference they don't bitch about it thousands of years later and use it as justification to shut down any opposition's arguments and steal a nation from an established group of people, then get pissy when they want to kill you
>>469115
>they
who? the jew hivemind?
jewmind?
>>469120
>MMXV Anno Domini
>not knowing the Jews operate in a collective hivemind
laughing redpills
>>469057
Agreed. They dindu nuffin. This is just an elaborate hoax crafted by the Globe Trotters.
Do Jewish ritual murders count as history?
>>469040
> The middle East is extremely hot, so it makes more sense that the original Jews would be black
Skin color also depends on UV rays, and those weren't too common. The original people of the Middle East were "black" looking people, but they certainly weren't the same race we call black today. It's like calling the Negritos from Asia black, or the Fijians black.
>>469200
Forgot to say pic related, an 80,000 year old Israeli woman. By 10,000 years ago, most Middle Easterners looked like they do today.
>>469203
>80 thousand years old
>Israeli
what
Golden age of the jews started when a fuckload of them migrated to konstantiniyye after beung expelled from spain.
I'm unironically interested in learning about ancient Israel and Judea. What should I read before getting into the Old Testament?
Every time I try to learn about Jewish history it's revealed to be an impossible task. There are too many idiots on both sides of the Jewish debate.
>>469111
Nordic?
>>470571
Yalr Open Courses OT class
It seems like everyone but OP knows fuck all. I'd like to contribute but I also know fuck all.
>>470713
I went to a university specializing in Jewish History, and I know fuck all.
>>469203
>woman
>>470713
>Implying knowing the OT narrative counts as scholarly k owledge
If he'd done a higher criticism it would have been interesting but those posts are just recounting the history of the Israelites as told in the Bible.
>>470602
I browse a variety of boards on 4chan. What's wrong with being a citizen of multiple places at the same time?
Need I remind you that we're all immigrants to /his/, so please check your privilege.
>>465094
>A man who came from Uruk to the Holy Land
What? I mean sure Uruk, whatever, but to the Holy Land? As in Israel? That place the Jews didn't fucking "receive" until Moses led them out of Egypt? The hell are you smoking?
>>468543
>In 1866 they were wrongfully expelled from Galatz, Romania
Still many Jews here in Galati.
No one harmed or expelled them here, I think others from the countries you mentioned know their history and can identify errors in your post.
>>471684
>Still many Jews here in Galati.
There are still many Jews in almost every place they have been historically expelled from. Hell, Jews were expelled and banned from England for centuries.
You know what happened? They came back.
>>471305
It wasn't Israel for the vast majority of its history
>>471741
>historically expelled from
Man I just told you historically Jews were never expelled from Galati, they left on their own to move to Israel.
Maybe in other places but not here, and you shitposted about it... Some people hate Jews I don't and most rational humans don't... fuck off with "muh intolerance" "ah I'm a snowflake Jew everyone hates me"
You're nothing more but human beings just like anyone else, and you have your right to express your religion. But shut the fuck up please.
At some point there were 17000 Jews out of a total of 70000 people in the city, most of them left for Israel.
Btw Jewish girls give the best blowjobs ;). Ty Jews.
>>465141
All Jews today are descended from Judean exiles who married into the local population. This is why European Jews are predominately European and Ethiopian Jews are predominately Ethiopian.
That said, there are strong patrilineal genetic links that connect every known Jewish population. While Judaism is matrilineal, it was traditionally spread by men who married non-Jewish women who presumably converted.
>>471746
Neither was every other current location we humans named today. To simplify it, let's call her from the southern tip of Eurasia that's really close to Africa.
>>469200
WE
The Jewish people, like the Assyrians and the Copts and the Samaritans, are a Near-Eastern culture who managed to survive from the Bronze Age to the present. Unlike the Copts and Assyrians, they kept their ancestral tribal religion.
It's almost miraculous and certainly impressive that the Jews were able to survive longer than the other, once more-powerful peoples of Elam, Anatolia, and Sumeria.
My guess is that the matrilineal nature of Jewish citizenship preserved the Jewish identity during antiquity and the Middle Ages, because Israel's frequent conquest by other peoples did not erase the Jewish identity. Even if all the men in a village were slaughtered, the children that the women would have with the conquerors would still be Jewish.
>>471932
>post proto-Eurasians that just so happen to look like proto-Africans/modern Africans
>immediately shitpost WE
Get out. By 10,000 years ago, they didn't even exist anymore.
>>>/v/
>>469200
WE
>>468667
Nice proverb.
>>471684
A quick search on google reveals there was something anti-semetic going on there and then. Bankers were expelled, a synagogue burnt down...
I don't know what your angle is, but don't try to downplay how much my people gave suffered. We've seen throughout history what happens when we forget.
>>472331
Oh boy, a quick Google search. Don't overestimate the distance your 'muh Judaic heritage' arguments will get you. I'm Irish-American and I don't hate Brits and New England Protestants for my ancestors' hardships. Get over yourself. You have no connection to the place in question, I'm very much inclined to believe the person who lives there over you. Considering how broadl defined antisemitism is, I don't give a fuck about what your Google search says.
>>472386
>discouraging people from research
Pic related. Taken from A History of the Jewish People, by Abraham Malamat, Haim Hillel Ben-Sasson
>>472432
How is that discouraging you from doing research?
>>472499
Every instance was wrongful?
>>471938
I'm pretty sure the Jews trace their genealogy through the male line. Look at all the "begats" in the bible.
>>468532
>>468534
>>468541
>>468543
>>469151
None of the accusations have been proven, so no.
>>472544
For automatic dual Israeli citizenship it is required that your mother be Jewish.
>>465253
Wasn't everything at the time a shit hole?
>>475119
Not equally.
The jews probably came from the ancient Habiru people, which were like a band of semitic gypsies.
They are confirmed to have been in Egypt at one point and were probably kicked out for the same reason as they were kicked out of 150 other nations throughout history.
>>475119
By shithole I mean an irrelevant place full of goat herders.
>>475501
>What is Babylon
>What is Egypt
>>475535
What about them? I was talking about Judah, read the posts you're replying to or fuck off.
>>472386
The latest immigrants in your family tree probably came to America in the 19th century. There's probably no one alive in your family who was there to remember your ancestors' hardships. My grandma came to America from Poland in 1940. She remembers the Polish occupation. She lost both her parents and a brother in the war. Her parents would tell her stories of the Russian pogroms around the turn of the century, and her Russian grandparents would tell her stories of Pograms from the 19th century. My grandfather from the other side of the family spent 18 months at Janowska, and he lost his entire family; 5 siblings and both his parents. His wife was Serbian and lost both her parents in the war, as well.
I'm not that anon, but I think you're forgetting that Jews (including Jewish-Americans) are living in the wake of a rather recent and harrowing act of hatred. Not only that, but the holocaust is treated like ancient history now and many nations are going back to their old, Jew-hating ways.
>>465141
>dat pic
As soon as I saw it for some reason the fact it's in a Jewish history thread reminded me of this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yDarQW7UZc
>>475590
Does that mean Jews should be allowed to portray themselves purely as victims in every narrative they spin? That's what's happening in this thread. Four straight posts of someone claiming Jews have been expelled warrantlessly every time they've been expelled from a county. I'm more concerned with the perpetual victim complex than I am with the Holocaust.
If Jews are afraid of another Holocaust happening to then, they should move to Israel. Isn't the purpose of Israel to fund antigenocide campaigns and to kill people who want to kill Jews? In a timely e when Jews have more security than ever before I think you need to support your claims a little bit more.
Also, this is 4chan, where Holocaust deniers go to have a good time. I'm not denying the Holocaust, I just don't think that Jews constituted even half of the people killed in it.
>>472432
That is so stupid I'm reading from Jews website from Galati and they talk about building their first cemetery around that year, building some Sinagogs and having their own newspapers... HOW THE FUCK DID THEY GET OPPRESSED?
The only bad thing that happened is that during world war ( which is obviously much late ) the invaders damaged some of the sinagogs because of their "muh antisemitism" but here in Galati Jews were always tolerated and no one gave a flying fuck.
As I further read on their website the only hate crime was caused by some Greeks that started fire in their temples, also the events described in your book - it is specified that Greek commerciants done all the damage, an only around 100 Jews suffered.
So again don't blame people just because it feels good to blame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlM2a2tsOM
1 hour lecture on Jewish history
>>471465
Eh, sorry, should have written Canaan instead. But the point was to specify the region.
>>475661
>Does that mean Jews should be allowed to portray themselves purely as victims in every narrative they spin?
I mean, don't the Banyamulenge and the Tutsi do the same in the Eastern Congo and Rwanda? Don't the Bosnian Muslims do it as well? Don't Christians invariably try to portray themselves in a bright light? You're holding Jews to a different standard than everyone else. You're asking them to write their own histories from a totally unbiased standpoint, which isn't going to happen with any ethnic or religious group, ever.
>four straight posts of someone claiming Jews have been expelled warrantlessly every time they've been expelled from a county
Yeah, but you're not providing much of an argument about under what warrant they were expelled. Christian countries are not kind to other faiths (I'm not saying that's unique to Christians. Judea was a good place to be a Christian, either) So it's not surprising that they take up "convert or die" policies from time to time. Christians even do the same thing to Christians, just look at the Serbian-Croat conflict after WWI.
>If Jews are afraid of another Holocaust happening to then [sic], they should move to Israel.
Jews aren't just Jews. Many Jews also live in countries that they like living in, and many are very patriotic (e.g., I have 3 uncles in the US armed services, and I plan on joining after I finish uni). Jews don't want to just go to Jewland and live with other Jews, we want to live in the countries we were born in and love, just like everyone else. But that requires others to have an understanding of who Jews are, which a lot of people lack.
>when Jews have more security than ever before I think you need to support your claims a little bit more.
Support what claims? I was trying to relate that my personal experience being a Jew was very different from your personal experience being an Irish-American, and trying to allow you to understand what the difference is.
>>476483
>You're holding Jews to a different standard than everyone else.
>Implying any of those groups have come up in this thread
>Implying I would think it's acceptable when these groups do this
>but you're not providing much of an argument about under what warrant they were expelled.
The burden of proof is on the guy claiming those were wrongful expulsions. The only source posted here supporting that narrative, authored by a Jew (apparently the only people who can write about Jews) has been justifiedly criticized.
>Jews don't want to just go to Jewland and live with other Jews, we want to live in the countries we were born in and love, just like everyone else. But that requires others to have an understanding of who Jews are, which a lot of people lack.
Again, too bad. They can't expect the world to understand them if it obviously doesn't want to. This is just an unreasonable expectation on the part of Jews, or anyone else who demands that their neighbors change to suit their needs as a group that wants to remain itself and not abandon its identity. I know Jewish identity is inescapable, but that's part of my point.
>I was trying to relate that my personal experience being a Jew was very different from your personal experience being an Irish-American, and trying to allow you to understand what the difference is.
I didn't say they were identical experiences, I made a comparison. I've heard this kind of argument many times before and it's not really that effective at this point. Perspectives and feelings aren't that important when trying to discuss what the facts of the past are. Jewish history inevitable portrays Jews as victims and heroes because this is an integral part of Jewish culture. Most Jewish holidays are celebrations of violent moments in your history. If you want to act as if your people have had no agency in those events, you can't claim to be intellectually honest about the way human beings behave in general.
Okay /pol/ let me give you a very basic crash course on Jewish history from 1000BC.
>As the narrative goes, the United Kingdom of Israel held the 12 tribes of Israel
>After internal conflict, they break off with the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel
>The Assyrians take over the Kingdom of Israel, shift the people around, move new people in, and these became the Samaritans (as legend goes).
>The Kingdom of Judah stayed unified until the first temple was destroyed with the invasion of the Babylonians
>Most of the population was moved East into Babylon
>The Zoroastrians freed the Jews and allowed them to return home shortly later
>But most did not return and stayed in Babylon, this began what we know as the diaspora
>Jewish communities at this point existed as far South as Yemen and as far East as Persia, with the greater Jewish community having a place in Babylon
>The Greeks come through and make the Kingdom of Israel into a controlled state with appointed governors and the such
>The Maccabees get upset with the corruption of the Temple and the foreign influence
>SMASH SMASH SMASH the Temple is taken back and the Kingdom of Israel is once again independent
>Shortly after the Romans take over
>Governors are corrupt, Officials are corrupt, there are so many different Jewish movements at this point that break is about to happen
>Rebels arise and fight the Romans
>Romans have a bit of a tough time taking out the forces
>Eventually siege Jerusalem and destroy the Second Temple
>the Sadducees essentially die off as a movement and either assimilate into Roman life or return to the Pharisees
Now at around 200AD a man by Yehuda HaNasi (Judah the Prince) came and presented a document known as the Mishnah:
>Mishnah was a written compilation of the oral law and presented as an authoritative collection.
>Most all Jewish communities, as far south as Yemen, as far East as Persia, and as far North as Northern Italy, accept this document as an authoritative work.
>>476694
>The rabbis (the continuation of the Pharisee movement) made their judicial decisions based on the Mishnah and Braitot (other oral traditions outside of the Mishnah)
>The main center of legal Jewish thought was in Jerusalem, but it shifted to Babylon over a few hundred years. This is where the two talmuds are named from: the yerushalmi talmud and the bavli talmud.
>At this point, there is a possible disconnect. Jewish communities isolated from Babylonian thought for whatever reason may accept the Mishnah but have no knowledge of the talmud because it was written in Aramaic and was awfully large (i.e. the Ethiopian community).
>Most other communities accept the Babylonian talmud for a variety of reasons, but principally because Hazal (the Jewish court) gave it a stamp of approval and released it as the collective opinions of the court, the rabbis of the court, and other important figures.
Geonic Era:
>The Babylonian Talmud is not, within itself, a codified book of law, it is simply a list of opinions and some court decisions. The book must have a rabbi in order to be properly interpreted
>Babylon, at this point, is the center of Jewish thought. Any Jew wanting to seriously learn about the law and the scriptures go to Babylon to learn. They go to yeshivot (derived from the verb "to sit"; lishuv) learn, and come back.
>Because Babylon is liberal with religions and allows the Jews to control their own communities, it became a place for prospering academic traditions
>academies all over Babylon, mostly in Jewish cities
>but as the Muslims take over Spain, there is a shift:
>Babylon starts to fall, leadership starts to decrease, and Jewish knowledge in the area becomes inferior to that in Al-Andalusa
Rishon Era:
>center of Jewish thought in Spain
>Spain at this point of time was very accepting of other Abrahamic religions (relative to other areas across the world) and this allowed Jewish thought to flourish in the area
>>476738
>Jews often held high positions of power, serving royalty as doctors, astrologists, and mathematicians
>gained wealth, prestige, and the ability to foster new Jewish education
>some of the greatest works in Jewish thought came out of Spain during this time, mostly that of Maimonides, Nachmonides, and Ibn Ezra.
>But then Spanish Inquisition
Acheron era:
>Jews lived in Germany since the Romans took it over
>but the communities really picked up once the Babylonian empire started falling apart
>so plenty move into the Rhineland and France
>Jewish thought slowly but surely grows here and as Spain falls, becomes the main staple of Jewish thought
>Rashi, a great Jewish commentator on the Torah and Talmud Bavli, lives in France and worked in his vineyard.
>Similarly enough, Northern Italy had a lot of rich, influential Jews that would later jump on the Guttenberg press
>Guttenberg press comes out
>Jewish thought explodes
>new works from all sorts of people become common place
>mysticism sores as their works are favored over rationalist ones
>German thought flourishes
>German jewry becomes the basis of Ashkenazim
>Even as German Jews move into Russia, they keep their native tongue, Yiddish (a Germanic language with plenty of Hebrew vocabulary) as a sign of success of the German Jewish communities
And that's about it until the hashkafa. After the haskafa, everyone's shit gets fucked up and then holocaust. The end.
I dont think we can really believe the bible/talmud whatever about Jewish history since almost none of it has been proven by archaeology.
>>476766
>hashkafa
Haskala*
Pretty accurate in general.
Might as well through in something about the crisis in early modernity, when weird millenniarist movements arose on the one hand and all sorts of attempt to modernize Judaism on the other hand. It's crucial in order to understand how Jewish thinkers responded to the Enlightenment imo.
>>476800
The bible is more or less a cultural textbook and not meant to be taken as a historical one.
The Talmud is a comprehensive legal work that compiled the oral traditions and written opinions of all the great rabbis from 200BC to 700AD. The Talmud works more as a historical piece simply because it was so detailed with geography, food, cultural items, structures, et cetera. You can actually learn quite a bit about Babylonian culture just by picking up the Talmud and reading the inane conversations about what to do when it's nightfall and you haven't said such and such prayer or done such and such commandment.
You definitely get a change in attitude when you transition from the Yerushalmi Talmud to the Bavli though. Very important for archaeological research.
>>476803
>hashkafa
Derp haha. My mind is all sorts of fucked up right now. But yeah, the haskallah fucked everyone's shit up.
I missed a lot of things. Like the spread of the Sephardin after the inquisition and how the super rigidness of the Amsterdam community was a response to early modernism.
The enlightenment is better understood than medieval Jewish thought. For a lot of people on 4chan Judaism goes like this:
>Israelites
>then Jesus
>then pharisees hate Jesus and curse his name
>1600 years later
>Jews create banking conspiracies
I want to demonstrate how Jews moved all across the world and how the center of Jewish life shifted quite a bit as the time passed on.
I should have spoken about the karaim as well now that I think about it. Eh, I'll give a basic breakdown:
>Karaites start out as followers of a man named Anan ben David (though the Karaites end up being critical of him, putting pressure on the claim that Anan's movement was the same as the Karaites)
>Anan presented a very literal view of the bible
>he wouldn't even use medicine because the bible says God will heal his chosen people
>obviously this can't go on for too long without, so Karaites eventually abandon the idea
>the Karaites claim to be the correct continuation of Jewish religion and that the rabbis essentially remade Judaism
>the rabbis claim that the Karaites were foolish new-age thinkers that heavily undermined the basic oral tradition
>typically written traditions come out of oral ones (see Greek myths, see Roman myths, see Egyptian myths, et cetera) so it's hard to be dismissive of either camp
>some say that the Karaites were the continuation of the Sadducees, but I disagree as it was an entire 800 years after the Sadducees had essentially fell apart before the Karaites came into action
>I argue that the Sadducees essentially assimilated into Greek and Roman societies as most Sadducees were temple priests heavily educated in Greek and Roman thought
>regardless, Karaites and Sadducees share the same view of the bible
>Karaites claim that each Jew should interpret the bible and figure what it means
>however this does not stop Karaites from writing books of halacha (which is odd as halacha, at least as we understood it, came with the writing down of the Mishnah) that become popular
>Karaites at one point became so popular that it absorbed upwards of 50% of Jewry
>they got pretty owned though throughout the geonic era
>Saadia Gaon, Maimonides' son, and other important rabbinic Jewish leaders write responses and criticisms of Karaites
>Karaites lose ground and become a fraction of their original size
That's it.
Anyone here that wants to throw a question should. I will keep this thread bookmarked, but I won't be here 24/7.
>>476810
It's largely historically accurate after the babylonian exile (wars, kings, etc) but the most historically interesting things such as early Jewish history seem to be mostly myth. As far I know archaeologists have found evidence for Jweish culture evolving in place from and parallel to Caanite cultue starting around 1200BC, eventually culturally assimilating the region without the huge bloodshed written down.
>You definitely get a change in attitude when you transition from the Yerushalmi Talmud to the Bavli though
Didnt it get edited/redacted by somebody at this stage?
>>476877
Things get really detailed after the Babylonian exile. Probably because literacy increased and the tools needed to write became more readily available.
>Jewish history seems to be mostly myth
Well biblical history is mostly myth. However, at the same time, many biblical historians (especially Jewish ones) specifically headed out with a purpose of exposing myth; so, it doesn't help that many of the writers essentially hated the Jewish tradition (as they saw it as detrimental to the Jewish people). I typically aim middle ground, accepting that the rabbinic figures probably did have oral traditions going pretty far back, potentially hundreds of years; but, that most understanding of Jewish history before the Babylonian exile was convoluted. Was Pesah a pagan tradition that was Judaized to fit into the idea of one eternal God or was it an actual holiday commemorated for Israel's sufferings through the house of bondage? It's hard to say, and I'm not satisfied with either answers given. There's just too many guesses.
>Didnt it get edited/redacted by somebody at this stage?
The Yerushalmi Talmud was essentially redacted by Hazal, the Jewish high court, but two rabbis in particular "closed" the Bavli Talmud and sealed it up.
The problem is that these works are so fucking huge and take up entire bookshelves. To really edit them into a narrative is near impossible to do in a life time. What most scholars (and the rabbinic establishment) accept is that these works were essentially hastily thrown together compilations. These were books on nearly everything ever written. It was driven by necessity to write down everything that was ever said and to compile the braitot (those oral traditions outside the Mishnah), midrashim, and other teachings that were feared to be lost forever.
Continued:
>>476901
For example, Maimonides never cites any of his halachot in his Mishneh Torah. He had an understanding that those that would critique his work would know exactly where his halachot came from (there was a clear tradition and understanding of the Talmud to a degree). However, there are still some halachot that bewilder us because we cannot find the source of his teachings anywhere.
Some have speculated that the copy of the Talmud he had was probably more "authentic" then the ones that the Ashkenazim had. Ashkenazim fucking loved to censor shit, get the church involved, and generally fuck up literary works. I mean, just look at what they did the Maimonides.
>>470602
he's not trying to hide, you're just autistic
>>476865
What exactly is Holocaust theology? Is it trying to rationalize and interpret the Shoah and the survival through the Shoah in light of the Tanakh, or is there more?
When has Tikkun Olam become indistinguishable from social justice? There are Rabbis that are pissed about it:
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/06/07/the-fallacy-delusion-and-myth-of-tikkun-olam/
When and why did the Modern Orthodox, Liberal, Reform and Conservative currents of Judaism show up? How many centuries and how many instances of ethnic cleansing did it took for Jews to start reinterpreting their laws to blend with non-Jews, and what made them do that?
In hindsight, were ghettoes ultimately good or bad for the Jews?
Why is atheism so widespread among Jews? Especially in Israel of all places?
Do Jews ever give a shit about the Jerusalem Talmud? All I ever see are quotes from the Babylonian one.
>ctrl-f Khazar
>zero
Seriously /his/?
goddamn /pol/ knows more about this shit than you do, these guys were important! They basically owned the Eurasian part of the Silk Road.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
>>477088
they had no effect except maybe spreading Judaism to the steppes (Bukharian Jews)
were rekt anyhow
>>477101
Aren't the Ashkenazim their descendants?
>>477085
Holocaust theology is a topic about religion and holocaust. After the holocaust, many survivors straight up became atheists because they could not believe that their God would persecute them that in such a cruel way. R' Wasserman, before he passed away in the holocaust, stated that the sins of the Jews were present in the name of their enemies (nationalist socialists). In essence, many rabbonim believed that the holocaust happened as a means of punishing the Jewish community for spreading communism and other self-destructing ideologies. To a certain degree, this is verifiable, at least as direct consequence, as Hitler associated communism with the Jews.
>Tikkun Olam became indistinguishable from social justice
Tikkun Olam means literally "repairing the world" and more colloquially means doing acts of kindness. Some reform Jews might be twisting it into social justice, but Reform Jews also have no clue about halacha.
>Modern Orthodox, Liberal, Reform, and Conservative currents of Judaism show up?
Okay, so basically after the haskallah, while many intellectual Jews became deists, others sought to change the religion from within.
The Reform movement was started by Moses Mendelssohn and was a reaction to modernism. Jews were gaining freedoms and independence and were no longer so tied to their communities, so many of them went off the derech (became irreligious) and tried to synthesize themselves into German society. Mendelssohn saw this and wanted to synthesize modern faith with Jewish religion. He translated the Torah into Bible, so Jews could learn German (and not just Yiddish, which while very very similar to German, had its weird cliques). What this essentially ended up doing was synthesize Western Yiddish into German, and now Western Yiddish does not exist.
Moses himself was a religious Jew that was shomer mitzvot (a keeper of the commandments). His followers ended up twisting his message and turning Judaism into a Jewy sounding German Protestantism
>>477135
If you look at a reform temple it looks a lot like a German Protestant church. If you listen to reform music, it sounds a lot like Protestant music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okEjEc5CTRc
The entire point of the Reform movement was assimilation into the German community. This spread into America and we see this even today, the need to assimilate. I guess tikkun olam being twisted into a form of social justice is just the case.
If you look at how the reform movement teaches their rabbis, there's almost no emphasis on halacha or traditional scriptural analysis. It's all new age, modern stuff. The reform movement loves making political organizations and other clubs instead of actual synagogues.
I'm biased, but the reform movement has really broken off from Judaism. It's the reason why it can't penetrate Israeli society very well.
>Conservatism and Orthodoxy
They're actually the same movement just 100 years ago. The Orthodox Union and the Jewish Theology Seminary (a Conservative institution) were established by the same Rabbi! What actually happened was the Conservative movement had a break from certain Orthodox groups. Orthodox groups got really demanding. They wanted a mechitzah in every shul (even though there were shuls that had women sit on the upper level while the men went downstairs to pray) and the new kosher organizations really challenged some Conservative institutions.
At the same time though, the Conservative movement wanted to modernize halacha, and it started slowly. First they removed non-essential minhagim, then they started toying with the idea of shvut d'shvut and other halachic devices for turning sins into acceptable acts. But then they made a huge break off in the American movement by doing two things: allowing driving on Shabbat and removing the kohanim prayers.
Not all Conservative synagogues accept these decisions. Conservative establishments in Canada still have kohanim prayers.
>>476865
Why was the Zohar so readily accepted by pretty much everyone? Moses De Leon's story of how he obtained it is pure bullshit, history-wise.
Do any Jewish groups, besides the Karaite Jews I guess, ever criticize the Kabbalah?
I don't mean individual rabbis, but communities or denomination that call it pagan, polytheistic or hippie, and forbid it.
Why does everyone hate the Haredis? Which other groups are widely hated?
>>477166
To put it in a nutshell, the Conservative movement is a synagogue with an Orthodox rabbi and secular congregants. The students at the JTS are very religious typically and take halacha seriously, but none of the congregants do for whatever reason.
>In hindsight, were ghettoes ultimately good or bad for the Jews?
Good in the sense that they kept Jewish communities physically locked together. Bad in the sense that they gave Jewish communities way too much power and the pressure forced them to be very strict on delineation. It's hard to say actually, I'll leave it to another to answer.
>Why is atheism so widespread among Jews?
Because the holocaust and because of the enlightenment. Also, unlike 400 years ago where that shit would get you a cherem (excommunication) faster than you could say "Yo mama", we have this new concept of tinok shenishba that has evolved to say that anyone that goes off the derech is still a Jew and that he is not accountable for his sins (because the atheism has brainwashed him).
Personally, for me, I feel like tinok shenishba treats mentally rational adults like children, because it insists they can't be accountable, in the eyes of God and the Jewish community, for their actions. Baruch Spinoza wasn't an idiot. He knew what a cherem meant and he knew what path he chose.
>Do Jews ever give a shit about the Jerusalem Talmud?
Yes, but the Talmud Bavli is seen as "supreme" for the most part. There's this one rabbi in Israel that actually holds the opposite view; but, generally, it is understood within rabbinic tradition that the writers and editors of the Talmud Bavli had access to the Talmud Yerushalmi. This means the discrepancies are purposeful.
>>477114
No, that was a lie to try and legitimize anti-semitism by saying that the ashkenazim weren't "real" hebrews from the bible and thus one could pretend not to be hypocritical by being both bigoted against jews yet still believe in the old testament. In truth the ashkenazi simply interbred with central and eastern europeans enough that they formed their own unique branch of the religion/ethnicity/whatever the jews say they are for today.
>>477184
However, at the same time, the Talmud Yerushalmi had much greater and more expansive facts on agriculture and laws revolving around the Land of Israel while the Talmud Bavli had more importance in areas of civil disputes and criminal acts. So when the diaspora happened and when it became apparent that the halacha revolving around the Land of Israel didn't matter, naturally the Talmud Bavli became more popular.
>>477172
>Why was the Zohar so readily accepted by pretty much everyone?
For a few reasons:
>it gave ad hoc explanations to many customs that had no basis in Jewish faith (like shaving a woman's head)
>it was a mystical work that was naturally esoteric, curiosity lures the cat
>it was readily produced by the Northern Italian Jews and printed with the guttenberg press
>many rabbis liked to jump on it, throw in their own two cents, and attribute it to Simon Bar Yohai
>it was actually pretty common for rabbis to attribute their own sayings to other rabbis as a way to grant it legitimacy; there's this entire golden age mentality in the rabbinic movement
>the Zohar itself was not incredibly original and was probably the compilation of teachings and writings that were circulating at the time
Mysticism has always been a big thing in Jewish life, but the Geonim and early Rishonim wanted so bad to dismiss it. Just look at how much effort Maimonides puts into writing a rationalistic defense of Jewish believe. His Guide for the Perplexed is essentially an Aristotelian approach to Jewish belief and practice. But Jews whom were not taught the rationalist tradition loved the mystic crap, the necklaces, the bracelets, the curses, et cetera.
>Do any Jewish groups, besides the Karaite Jews I guess, ever criticize the Kabbalah?
Conservative groups to a large degree, the Yemenite Jews (whom had only access to the Rambam, naturally dismissed it in favor of the Rambam's works), other Jews that were essentially given a cherem, et cetera. Jews outside the framework.
>>477114
No.
>>477172
>Why does everyone hate the Haredis
Haredis are the typically black hat Jews that live in Israel. Not all Haredis are Hassidic, but most are. People hate the Haredis because they refuse to work due to a belief of:
>If Torah > Everything except Living
>And if I don't have to work to live
>Therefore Torah > Work
When confronted with the logical fact that it's impossible for everyone to do that, therefore it cannot be a moral value (a deontological approach to morality), they just say, "Well if everyone kept Torah then God would make sure we'd be okay." This is highly against what most rabbis and community did throughout the years. In particular, Maimonides thought it trashy to earn a living from teaching Torah and thought it'd be better to get a job.
The Haredis are also very violent sometimes. Even much more violent than the Hassidim in NYC. They literally throw bleach in rabbis' faces and stab people at gay parades. They generally cause a ruckus and make everyone bend over backwards to satisfy them while they do nothing of the same for the others.
>>477088
It's hard to say how many Jews were in Khazar. Most scholars agree that Khazaria was a Jewish state at one point, but they were nominally Jewish. There are no large literary works, cultural traditions, or near anything that solidified their Jewishness. Most scholars today think the Khazars were pretty irreligious Jews that took the title on with their conversion for the sake of appeasing the Orthodox Christians to the West and the Muslims to the South.
>>477237
It undoubtedly happened at least in terms of a massive swath of the nobility, and I think it's completely wrong headed speculate about the sincerity of their faith.
They find a lot of coins inscribed with "Moses is the messenger of God" for example, and it happened across a backdrop of Byzantine and Arab, Christian and Muslim conflict. Maybe they thought to play the two sides against each other, maybe not.
It would not surprise me in the slightest if the general population just converted along with their ruling elite. It's happened before.
>>477220
>>477185
Then where do you propose the Ashkenazim originally came from? This seems like a plausible enough scenario to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_theory_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry
>>477285
Honestly, who knows? And that's the problem, the fact that there's so much mystery surrounding a literal country, which presumably had an administrative power that could collect and store their history and culture, makes this difficult.
There is one report of a Christians burning down a synagogue in the kingdom, the king becoming enraged, and ordering the same destruction upon a Church; but, we don't find evidence that they kept the commandments very well.
I guess only time will tell.
>>465094
The Old Testament is almost completely fictional. The power nexus of Judaism always was the Babylonian and Near Eastern banking/merchant aristocracy. Their never was a first temple, only a second, and it served more as a central bank than a place of worship.
As for the constituent groups that comprised Judaism: the Hyksos were the earliest ones, as noted by Josephus Flavius. There was also a mass conversion process in the earlier days around the Mediterranean Basin. This is fact, it's more a matter of thr extent that is debated. You had Semitic groups like the Phoenicians that had already been conducting international trade that were premium converts. You had areas in Greece, North Africa, and Italy that already had a Jewish population before Nebuchadnezzar enslaved the Israelites.
That's another thing: the diaspora wasn't caused by their enslavement. The Jewish population was always in diaspora from the very start. Judaism was/is a merchant's religion. Judaism was a cohesive ideology that facilitated a financial network that was going to dominate Europe. That's essentially what Judaism was: a plan to take Europe. Almost all of the Jewish religion was devised from Babylonian mythology. The only thing added was the clanish cohesion that protected their wealth and power from gentiles. The rabbinate and the Talmud further institutionalized their cohesion and isolation.
We have accounts of jews being expelled from ras throughout history, do we have reasons for any of the expulsions? I would like to hear some.
I remember an anon saying once that one jewish expulsion in Russia happened due to something like the jews were taking money or benefits given to farmers and using it to hire out their land or farms, essentially becoming landlords or managers, and using this to create debt and wealth for themselves which caused a lot of resentment in the populace.
>>477355
>it served more as a central bank than a place of worship.
That's so historically inaccurate, but it's just too fucking funny.
>>477285
Then where do you propose the Ashkenazim originally came from?
>These [genetic] studies revealed that Ashkenazi Jews originated in the Middle East during the Bronze Age (between 2500 BC and 700 BC), spreading later to Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetic_origins
>>477360
The expulsions mostly happened in Christian countries. You don't see Jews typically being expelled in the Levant, Arabia, India, Persia, et cetera. It was essentially a snowball effect. They were a convenient target for when the nobles were mad at the king.
>>477363
There was nothing in the Holy of Holies, Titus checked. The vault was the real concern of the second temple and he never checked that. It even had doors made of pure gold that would have been worth an absolute fortune. Poor farming communities didn't have all of that gold combined. They were aristocratic bankers, that's how they afforded it.
Also, the tithes were sent back to the second temple before it was destroyed. It was absolutely inundated with precious metals. They were richer than any government.
>>477360
Yeah, this is pretty much the gist of it. Throughout European Jewish history, Jews have been creditors as well as merchants who undercut prices of gentiles. That's the basic reason for why the general population hated them.
The whole "murderers of Christ" and conspiracy theories were rationalizations to justify pogroms and expulsions.
>>477365
The Babylonian and Sumerian merchant/banking class was were they originated from without a doubt. It parallels Feudal Western European history almost perfectly. There is no other area where their intelligence could have developed.
Jewish intelligence was a direct evolutionary response to maneuvering their political environment. The dumb ones got run out of business or killed by mobs of angry people. The smart ones learned to lie, deceive, and manipulate.
>>477365
That's a very large section with a great number of studies that all seem to disagree with one another. Taking one statement as truth in a sea of data seems contrived.
>A 2015 study by James Xue et al. showed that Ashkenazi Jews could be modeled as being 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In particular the results suggested that ≈75% of the EU ancestry in AJ is South-European, with the rest mostly East European.
The Middle East is a very large area, and it seems that many of the distinct groups that inhabit it share a lot of genetic data with the inhabitants of the Caucasus.
>A 2006 study by Seldin et al. used over five thousand autosomal SNPs to demonstrate European genetic substructure. The results showed "a consistent and reproducible distinction between 'northern' and 'southern' European population groups". ... Both Ashkenazi Jews as well as Sephardic Jews showed >85% membership in the "southern" group. Referring to the Jews clustering with southern Europeans, the authors state the results were "consistent with a later Mediterranean origin of these ethnic groups".
>A 2010 study by Bray et al., using SNP microarray techniques and linkage analysis found that when assuming Druze and Palestinian Arab populations to represent the reference to world Jewry ancestor genome, between 35 to 55 percent of the modern Ashkenazi genome can possibly be of European origin, and that European "admixture is considerably higher than previous estimates by studies that used the Y chromosome" with this reference point. ... The study also observed that Ashkenazim are more diverse than their Middle Eastern relatives, which was counterintuitive because Ashkenazim are supposed to be a subset, not a superset, of their assumed geographical source population.
>>477379
I just rechecked: it was gold plated doors, not pure gold. It still makes no difference. They were filthy rich by anyone's standards.
>>465094
>pol need not apply stormies get out reeeeeeee!
There's 3 threads with shit like this in the OP just on page 1, not even pol but you kids need to get over yourselves. Chans aren't intended to be a sheltered hugboxes, perhaps you should go back to sites like reddit where they ban dissenting opinions.
>>477365
Protip: Jewish entho-nationalist camp the wikipedia to make sure it's not saying any narratives that are contrary to what they are comfortable with the public consuming. More so Israel articles, but you can bet a statement like the sentence you quoted wasn't written in good faith.
For example I see no mention that they are only talking about Y DNA. From an incredibly small sample pool. Also that "middle east" is actually only a proposition and a wide swath. Someone from Anatolia might easily get lumped in with Middle East but they want you to think they've found an indisputable link to Palestine/Israel. They haven't.
>>477237
>There are no large literary works
This is a kind of dishonest argument though because there were no major Jewish literary works or prominent cultural traditions in general when the Khazars were active and Jewish. Which in and of itself is kind of strange, if you ask me.
Anyway, you make it sound like Khazars can be accused of being oddly quiet or dark in their cultural footprint compared to a much more vigorous non-Khazar Jewery active somewhere else and this just isn't true.
>>477680
>no major Jewish literary works or prominent cultural traditions
There's this entire era called the Geonic era. The Geniza vault has literally thousands of manuscripts. We find a few ketubot and land documents in Khazaria, but that's it.
>>477618
>camp the wikipedia
JIDF is a real meme desu.
>>477088
Thank god Sviatoslav destroyed these fuckers and Russia got off the ground as a bulwark against Islam. Also he reverted to Norse paganism, making him 1488 as fuck.
>>477184
>Because the holocaust and because of the enlightenment. Also, unlike 400 years ago where that shit would get you a cherem (excommunication) faster than you could say "Yo mama", we have this new concept of tinok shenishba that has evolved to say that anyone that goes off the derech is still a Jew and that he is not accountable for his sins (because the atheism has brainwashed him).
>Personally, for me, I feel like tinok shenishba treats mentally rational adults like children, because it insists they can't be accountable, in the eyes of God and the Jewish community, for their actions. Baruch Spinoza wasn't an idiot. He knew what a cherem meant and he knew what path he chose.
To add to this, atheism is a very different thing in the Jewish tradition. It's not like in Christianity where your salvation depends in part at least on belief in god; in Judaism the important thing is to fulfill the mitzvot (obligations) which are very specific and technical, while theological questions are generally secondary. So 'atheism' is articulated differently.
>>477618
Still more reliable than the other hypothesis about a mass conversion occurring during the early Middle Ages, which is backed mostly by later fiction. Is the Caucasus thesis even theoretically falsifiable?
>>469200
Wuz
>>476865
I can't make sense of the rabbinical narrative of Mount Sinai.
How many Mitzvot did Moses receive? 10, 666 or 613?
To me it sounds like this: something as important to the Israelites like circumcision isn't in the Decalogue, so Moses comes down from Mt. Sinai with the Written-Torah-that-isn't-written-yet and also the Oral Torah, so that the people can follow all the Mitzvot.
The Moses breaks the Tablets, then God rewrites them, and still something like circumcision isn't written on those.
Then Moses finally writes the Torah, but it's also incomplete, because somehow he couldn't also get the Oral Torah, which he also received, to be written into it.
Ultimately he had two Torahs but for some reason he only wrote one, and I'm also supposed to believe that God somehow forgot to write 603 Mitzvot on the Tablets, including circumcision.
This whole story would make more sense if they didn't attribute the autorship of the Five Books of Moses to Moses, with him receiving the Decalogue and the Oral Torah, and Joshua compiling everything from several sources - and not just the final 8 verses of Deuteronomy.
Isn't it more important to attribute each Mitzva to God than to Moses anyway?
>>465167
they are certainly not. but it's interesting to see, how they slowly conquered the world
>>477088
Does this look like a fat blue man lying down on a really big bed to anyone else?
>>468532
I never understood this /pol/ tactic.
How is listing various injustices supposed to make me feel LESS sympathetic to medieval Jewish people? Even if you truly believe the moneylenders "deserved it", their families and poor neighbors certainly didn't.
>>479995
It's not a tactic, it's simple logic to look at that list and wonder if the Jews were at fault rather than blaming all these other cultures for turning on them. I think it's strange how one culture was rejected by so many varied others. Sorry if questioning the narrative that they were all just anti-Semitic makes me a Nazi.
>>477114
Nah. That was a theory developed by Jews in 19th century Russia to say "See, we ARE Russian!" but was then used by Anti-Semites to say that Ashkenazi Jews have no connection to the Jews of the Bible.
Genetic studies showed that the Khazars had little to no influence on modern Jewish populations, because the Khazar people were conquered by nearby non-Jewish tribes and lost their religion. The few of them who didn't convert largely remained in Crimea until the formation of Israel.
>>480037
Mass slaughter and expulsion is never justified, especially when a very small amount of the population did anything to anger their oppressors.
You probably oppose the harassment, rape, and expulsion of Eastern Germans during and after WW2, right? Jewish pogroms are the same.
>>480066
This isn't really a response to any of the points made in the post you're replying to. All I see is emotive moralizing and a bad analogy.
>>480066
Everytime you pull "muh holocaust" card, you only prove people right about disliking you
Could this map actually work?
>>480103
Why would the neighboring Arab states let that happen?
Isn't that what Israel has been aiming for for like sixty years anyway?
>>480113
Maybe Trump will finally give them the go ahead
>>480093
The vast, vast, vast majority of expelled and harassed Jews did literally nothing wrong
Jewish communities in the middle ages resembled Native American reservations today -- the rich capitalists who made money off of outsiders dominated the community, but most people were poor craftsmen, housewives, servants, or shopkeepers. Why should they be expelled because some local Christians or Muslims owed money to their neighbor?
>>480217
Because the world has never been fair? I don't know what you expect, really. Women and children suffer all the time, it isn't only members of minority groups that fall into those categories. I don't think it's fair to deny that these groups of people had any agency in what happened, either. Jewish women and children weren't at all associated with the things the bankers were doing? Most wealth in Jewish communities came from Jewish men, just like most wealth in Christian communities came from men. This money would be spent on the people who weren't supporting themselves economically (women, children, etc.) and, if the mob felt that this was money that had been stolen in the first place, I can see why they would hang pretty Jewish females wearing fancy dresses along with the husbands and fathers that paid for them. If you really want them to behave differently, then I don't think you and I see history at all in the same way. I see history as a consequence of the way humans behave. You see history as a tool to change that mode of behavior. I may be wrong about that, but otherwise I don't see why you're being so prescriptive about this (you chose to talk about slaughter being unjustified when somebody suggested that we shouldn't take at face value claims about the absolute innocence of Jews), unless you're worried about another Holocaust, in which case you should just move to Israel and join the IDF instead of arguing with people on the Internet about whether or not the people who want to kill you should want to kill you or not.
>>479680
but i thought jews were inferior?
>>480037
>wonder if the Jews were at fault
They literally never were.
If you were to ever try studying history not you will understand why Jews were never accepted by any other nation, its crystal clear.
>>480268
>hahah xD genocide and shit is okay when it happens to the juice but when it comes to palestinians i dont know... :D
You are LITERALLY in a very figurative way are retarded
>>480113
>Isn't that what Israel has been aiming for for like sixty years anyway?
No actually. A quick look at past events show the exact opposite actually.
>>480700
I didn't say that at all, I told him to fuck off and defend his people if he cares so much. It isn't like the Palestinians don't have blood on their hands. I'm not pro-Israel but I'm not pro-terror, either.
>>480692
Literally this. Remember fact is stranger than fiction.
>>465197
>Samaritans or Karaits, can't remember, in Byzantine Judea, but they were slaughtered by the masses and never recovered since.
That's not true, Samaritans remained a majority in Samaria and in Nablus city until crusade times, and even after that it was mass conversion campaigns that led to their numbers being hugely decreased, according to Samaritans themselves many inhabitants of Nablus city and its surrounding villages are of Samaritan origin, even an Israeli president acknowledged that.
Secular Beta Israeli here ama
>>481382
Are you part of the JIDF?
>>481441
Nah
>>481274
Millions of people shouldn't be rejected, gassed, electrocuted, buried alive, etc for the mistakes of a handful of people.
>>482119
How about some fucking evidence?
>>482151
what
>>482678
>>481274, same question, ignoring your impertinent response in >>482119. What you said has nothing to do with my demand for better sources than the ones that have been posted ITT. I'm not denying the Holocaust or advocating genocide. I'm asking you for good sources about the history of Jewish oppression throughout the ages, ones that don't wallow in their own bias and laugh it off as unavoidable but instead do their best to work around it.
>>477618
Most of the mtDNA in those studies is confirmed euro m8, they freely admit
>>476738
>Sudden jump from Babylonian advisors to Al-Andalus and the Muslim conquest of Spain
Did I miss something?
>>469151
They sure do. This documentary gave me the heebie jeebies. Definitely worth a watch at night, under a blanket.
http://youtu.be/dCD03h8Z20c
>Jewish Ritual Murder Revisited:The Hidden Cult [FULL & HD]
>>483954
thats fake, its propaganda but /pol/ are idiots for this
>>484716
>thats fake
Source?
>>480103
No.
>>479333
Circumcision predates the Decalogue even in the Biblical narrative, though. It's not written there because it's explicitly stated elsewhere already.
>>476694
>The Assyrians take over the Kingdom of Israel, shift the people around, move new people in, and these became the Samaritans
Top kek. Samaritans are the original Israelites.
>>479680
They really didn't
Anglo-American Christians, as a whole, have more power than Jews
>>485139
>Anglo-American Christians, as a whole, have more power than Jews
This isn't the 1870s anymore bruv.
>>484716
Creator of the video cites sources. The warnings/writings of saints included.
>>483954
This vid is a must watch. Do not let your children outside unsupervised during Purim and Passover.
>>484716
I've got your sources right here.
http://pastebin.com/4TyfTN6E
Sorry I had to use pastebin, but f I listed all the documented cases of Jewish ritual murder from 169 B.C. to 1932 A.D. it would probably take about twenty posts.
>169 B.C. – "King Antiochus Epiphanes of Syria, during the plundering of the Temple of Jerusalem, found a Greek lying on a bed in a secret chamber. He begged the King to rescue him. When he began to beg, the attendants told him that a secret law commanded the Jews
to sacrifice human beings at a certain time annually. They therefore searched for a stranger which they could get in their power. They fattened him, led him into the woods, sacrificed him, ate some of his flesh, drank some of his blood, and threw the remains of his body into a ditch." (Josephus, Jewish historian, Contra Apionem)
>>485566
>copy and paste whAT a retard said too.
Much of that is taken from the Jewish Encyclopedia.
>1247 A.D. Valreas, France: Just before Easter, a two-year-old Christian girl's body was found in the town moat with wounds on forehead, hands and feet. Jews confessed that they wanted the blood of the child, but did not say that it was for ceremonial purposes. Pope Innocent IV said that three of the Jews were executed without confessing, (but the Jewish Encyclopedia, 1903, Vol. III, p. 261, says they confessed)
>>484786
>it's explicitly stated elsewhere already
Gen 17:9-14, the Abrahamic covenant. But the author of that, and this whole Torah business, is supposed to be Moses anyway.
This doesn't help me make sense of this.
Again: how many Mitzvot did God give to Moses on the mount?
The demonizing of jews does have a basis in history in response to their refusal to integrate to other cultures and ultimately develop a culture of no-culture often at the cost of the culture which allows them in.
What is fascinating is that they are a meme that is attempting to become a gene, a people once bound by their common slave status and ideals now attempting to be their own race through nepotism and manipulation.
>>479333
>>485925
Oh wait, this is even better:
Talmud - Mas. Berachoth 5a
>R. Levi b. Hama says further in the name of R. Simeon b. Lakish: What is the meaning of the verse: And I will give thee the tables of stone, and the law and the commandment, which I have written that thou mayest teach them? [Exodus 24:12] ‘Tables of stone’: these are the ten commandments; ‘the law’: this is the Pentateuch; ‘the commandment’: this is the Mishnah; ‘which I have written’: these are the Prophets and the Hagiographa; ‘that thou mayest teach them’: this is the Gemara. It teaches [us] that all these things were given to Moses on Sinai.
Well, would you look at that!
Forget the Mitzvot, the Talmud wants me to believe Moses received the entire freaking Tanakh and Talmud, a massive collection of books written 1000-2000 years later!?
Did Moses' even know Old Aramaic?
Why do rabbis need to claim Moses got all of this shit from the future?
Why isn't "God sent it to the Juice People" enough?
>>477369
>>477360
The justification for the Spanish Inquisition was that the Jewish populations had a tendency to spread immoral practices (such as adultery and other lascivious behaviors) and "seduce" Christians away from their faith.
Fast-forward to Nazi Germany and the same justification is used.
I know that the term "scapegoat" is commonly used to dismiss the negative cultural influences spread by Jewish communities, but that just seems too convenient and illogical. This has been a consistent allegation against Jewish communities throughout history. How can you keep bleating that it was just an 'excuse'?
Even look at Weimar Germany after WW1 when the Jewish peoples were allowed to flourish. It turned into complete decadence. The same can arguable be said now of the American empire and the fall of Christianity in the region. Most of the dissemination of pornography and the sex trades have Jewish peoples at leading the charge. Even in hollywood.
I hate /pol/ with a passion and I do not want to seem anti-semitic, so please address my statements as honestly as you can. I am trying to have an honest and open dialogue. No ethnic community is without their wrongdoings.
Why pretend the Jewish communities are always victims when there are consistent allegations of them being perpetrators of subversive activities?
>>486110
>"seduce" Christians away from their faith.
The same jewish sect that lives in secret and refuses anyone who tries to enter their evil religious order ? Get your propaganda together guys.
Jewish people do participate in the dissemination of pornography and the sex trades. Just like christians, atheists, and surely a few muslims.
But they are the only ones who get pointed out as lawless devilish animals.
Guess what we typically we call that ? Scapegoats.
>>486681
Nice strawman. How about you address my post rather than cry of your innocence?
Yes there are a few 'christians' and 'muslims' involved (who lose this title upon such practices) but it is undeniable that the Jewish people have the majority presence. There is a correlation between the presence of Jewish communities and the sudden rise in anti-christian sentiment and licentious behaviours. Just as I would defend Israels right to defend it's national religion and identity, so to would I defend Europe's.
>>486681
Answer me this: have the Jewish people ever committed a wrong throughout history? Provide examples.
>>486794
History is written by the subverter.
>>486681
>The same jewish sect that lives in secret and refuses anyone who tries to enter their evil religious order ?
Ignoring your attempt at a strawman, how is that incompatible with what was said?
if you want to look at a wrong committed by the jews you have to look no further then modern day Palestine!
>>486896
Selfdefense! Human shields! Palestine never existed! Antisemitism! Rock throwers! Mudslimes! Antisemitism!
>>475590
>holocaust
Don't you mean holohoax?
>>486896
The Israelis literally did nothing wrong. If the last few months have taught us anything, it's that if the United States had a country of Akbars lobbing bombs over their borders every few days, they would have committed publicly supported ethnic genocides by now. If anything, the Israelis should be praised for their restraint.
>>478565
Khazars were at the forefront of defending Europe and central Asia from Islam but couldn't continue the fight because the Slavs were attacking from the North while the main front was in northern Iran . Russians are the reason why Islam spread to central asia, Iran and the Caucasus because they are fucking idiots and attacked the main bastion who actually stood a chance against the mudslimes. You shouldn't thank god for sviatoslav you should shame them you fucking retard.
>>487183
> Russians are the reason why Islam spread to central asia, Iran and the Caucasus
>>465152
>writes proto-jew
"HURRR FFFDDURURR NOT JEWS DURRFF HE WAS EBFORE JEWSS!!!"
This is the kind of person /pol/ contains
>>487259
Well ya, the Khazars literally stopped the caliphate in its tracks but couldn't keep up with the war because the slavs kept bullying the Khazars for no apparent reason other than alcohol which forced them to split up their resouces and men which in turn made them weak enough for the Arabs to make gains.
Slavs are the reason Islam exists today in the modern world. Imagine the slavs ( sans alcohol) teamed up with the pagan chechens, ingushetians , Azaris, Persians and Khazars to take on the Arabs and drive them all back to Saudi Arabia .. The world would be a much better place , The middle east would be a bustling modern oasis , there would be no Pakis, Bangledeshis , Somalians and the Arabs would be confined to a tiny slither of land the size of Israel in the middle of Saudi Arabis.
Thanks Russia
>>487337
Wire confirmed for best show ever
poor frank
>>487337
This is the most retarded thing I've read. If anything Russians are responsible for containing Islam in the Steppes and partly in the Caucasus.
Are you Polish?
>>487356
>Russians are responsible for containing Islam in the Steppes and partly in the Caucasus.
are you fucked in the head. Small skirmishes here and there isn't considered containing you fucking retard. The most Russians and cossacks have ever done was steal bread from a local imam while he was pooing in the loo. The Russians didn't do shit to contain anything. The Arabs still won the Caucasus and Iran thanks to the slavs being idiots. The only reason Arabs left the Caucasus is because the remaning Khazars would hold guerrilla type raids against the Arabs so they said fuck it and left. Russians didn't do shit and is the main reason why the world is fucked today.
Enjoy mehmets cock in your ass (pic related)
>>487387
Y so mad?
>>487402
WHO CREATED YOUR ASS FAGGOT ?
repeat it after me bitch " i come in the name of Jesus by the power of the holy spirit"
The devil is a mother fucking liar so you know I aint worried
BIAAAAAAAAAAAAAATCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>487326
He was a "proto-Jew" in the same sense Indo-European goat herders were "proto-English".
>>487387
>thanks to the slavs being idiots
There were no Slavs in the steppes when Arabs were conquering Persia you utter fucking retard.
>>487183
Khazars were enslaving Russians and Goths and selling them to Arabs and other Turkics. Islam spread to Transoxiana by the Arabs and Göktürks under the Umayyad Caliphate. Once again, glory to Svyatoslav, who brought the Turk blight to an end.
>>487356
No, he's a mudskin considering the confused and pettminded disdain for alcohol. t. Polak.
I'm a Jew, descendant of the lands of Cyka blyat and I now live in Israel.
My ancestors come from Poland, then probably Italy and then from Judea or some other shithole who knows.
Anyways, the history is neat, my ancestors went from hating your guts to kinda being ok with you and then hating your guts again. That's the cycle of Jews.
Atleast is Europe.
Sandniggers have better hospitality desu.
>>487183
>defending against islam
Islam > jewdaism, pal.
>>488395
>>488984
The slav fears the mongol
>>486110
Even if individual Jews were responsible for literally every war in human history, that doesn't justify persecuting the vast, vast majority of them who are innocent, you dumbass.
>>483954
entertaining and informative / 10
>>489357
Did you even read the post you're replying to? Why do you talk about justification in a practical sense at all in a case like this?
>>488984
>slavs think that killing lone Khazar soldiers meanwhile Khazars were engaged in massive battles 600 miles south makes them mighty and noble.
try again Boris
>>490455
Svyatoslav wasn't a Slav, he was a Norseman.
>>490455
Turks weren't Muslims?
>>471938
>the matrilineal nature of Jewish citizenship
No wonder from a slave culture.
>>490727
The Egyptian slavery never happened, despite what religious Jews insist
>>491819
>Egyptian slavery never happened
Slavery was a common thing back then in every nation and culture , stop being an idiot. Jews never claimed to have built the pyramids only houses and large structures for the pharaohs. Even in the prince of Egypt the slaves aren't building the Pyramids.... Only people who think they built the Pyramids are ignorant idiots.
>>491819
>Egyptian slavery
Slaves were mainly obtained through prisoners of war. Other ways people could become slaves was by inheriting the status from their parents. One could also become a slave on account of his inability to pay his debts. Slavery was the direct result of poverty. People also sold themselves into slavery because they were poor peasants and needed food and shelter. The lives of slaves were normally better than that of peasants. Slaves only attempted escape when their treatment was unusually harsh. For many, being a slave in Egypt made them better off than a freeman elsewhere.[2] Young slaves could not be put to hard work, and had to be brought up by the mistress of the household. Not all slaves went to houses. Some also sold themselves to temples, or were assigned to temples by the king. Slave trading was not very popular until later in Ancient Egypt. Afterwards, slave trades sprang up all over Egypt. However, there was barely any worldwide trade. Rather, individual dealers seem to have approached their customers personally.[2] Only slaves with special traits were traded worldwide. Prices of slaves changed with time. Slaves with a special skill were more valuable than those without one. Slaves had plenty of jobs that they could be assigned to. Some had domestic jobs, like taking care of children, cooking, brewing, or cleaning. Some were gardeners or field hands in stables. They could be craftsmen or even get a higher status, for example, if they could write, they could become a manager of the master's estate. Captive slaves were mostly assigned to the temples or king, and they had to do manual labor. The worst thing that could happen to a slave was being assigned to the quarries and mines. Private ownership of slaves, captured in war and given by the king to their captor, certainly occurred at the beginning of the Eighteenth Dynasty (1550–1295 BCE). Sales of slaves occurred in the Twenty-fifth Dynasty (732–656 BCE),
>>468543
Ireland is the only country that never kicked the Jews out.
>Because they never let them in!
The Jews who call themselves Jews today are impostors. I can't find the site but I remember reading that ancient Israelite DNA was mainly Y-dna haplogroup I.
>>490466
Nigga, entire cities were razed Carthogo delenda est style and whole lands pacified. It's the accomplishment of a bunch of Viking raiders and Slavic warriors. It's not insignificant and boohoo, the Arabs ans Turks are eternally at each other's necks, big surprise. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarkel
>>490487
Rurik and his son had belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, Finnic and Estonian genes. Varangians or Vikings were not an ethnicity and most "Norsemen" were just "Northmen": Germanic, Ugric, Magyar, Slavic, Finnic
>>470602
>I am the rightful browser of /his/ and you are not
Get off from your high horse, faggot.
>>493020
Modern jews aren't that different from native palestinians. Yet those natives are probably closer to the original israelites than sephardim or ashkenazis.
>>494643
Hey, I'd gladly have her occupy my land.
>>468532
2016
Jews rightfully ejected from Poland
2017 jews rightfully ejected from multiple euro countries and parts of Australia
2018 Jews rightfully sent over the wall in US
>>468667
yeah, the one asshole they ran into was christianity
>>494619
His N1 subclade doesn't exist in Uralic population.
>>468543
>>468541
>>468534
>>468532
>wrongfully
Why is Israel so based /his/?
>mercilessly kills subhumans
>protects the life of all creeds, races and religions
>developed the Apollo program
>keeps us safe from terrorism (mossed almost stopped 9/11)
>has never lost a single military engagement, yet alone a war
>literally the home of computers and technology
>military uses and invented the Tavor, Ar series, MG3, FAL, and Galil
>stopped the former nazis in Argentina from carrying out nerve gas attacks on America
>Home of the Merkava, the single greatest land vehicle ever created
>railgun, coilgun and fusion energy technology all come from Israeli
>helped the unionist patriots bomb dublin
>freest democracy in the world
>the IDF are literally the modern Spartans in terms of bravery and skill
>F22, A10, F35, rail gun technology, fission technology, FTL technology, nuclear power, computers, rockets, submarines, robots all being developed in Israel because of the superior wit and ingenuity of the Jewish race
>constantly fighting off the hordes of evil
>best special forces in the world
>besieged 24/7 365 by the forces of evil
>the greatest directors, writers, videogame makers, producers and actors all come from Israel
>>496185
JIDF, plz go to bed.
>>496185
>>keeps us safe from terrorism (mossed almost stopped 9/11)
lol. I've not heard this spin before. Are the jews finally allowing us to acknowledge the five dancing Israelis arrested on 9-11 or is that still being kept from the general public?
>>496185
if israel is so based why they don't kill every muslim on earth?
>checkm8
I respect that you're keeping this mess to a single thread, but I can't see how this thread could ever work
the one thing 4chan is known for is people pretending to be group A, misrepresenting group A, and then a waterfall of useless and unproductive discussion follows
the issue is not whether this thread belongs here, but whether it even has a purpose
>>497413
Joos happen to have a history, the discussion of which happens to be in this thread.
>>497413
I disagree, I think it's important to bring to light the fact that Jewish history is something worth discussing. This thread is interesting. If you don't want to discuss Jewish history on the humanities, history, and religion board, you should just not participate in relevant threads instead of tearing down the purpose of this site.
>>487041
As awful as what Israel has been doing to palestine is, I kind of agree with you. Most other situations like this end much sooner in the stronger group genociding the weaker one. Whether this is because Israel has a conscious or because they don't think they can get away with it is unclear tho.
>>477285
There were Ashkenazim living in the Rhine region at the same time that the Khazars reigned
Jews did not mind Christianity that much at first, because they had control over it. Christian converts were jews that had been circumcised and observed The Law... however John trolled them epicly by saying a non-jew could become xtian. Thus breaking their hold on power over Christendom
>>475501
werent both kingdoms irrelevant shitholes in that sense?
Jews only became relevant as a semitic group long after the 2nd temple got rekt
>took Intro to Jewish Studies
>hardly any talk of ideology
>hardly any talk of culture/custom/tradition
>all history talk
>all about migration of ancient peoples
>all about warring and government in the ancient Middle East
>all about the diaspora
I was pretty upset. I wanted a much more theological experience and all I got to hear about was the Hebrews and the Canaanites and the Maccabees and the Romans and whoever else.
>>500692
>implying ancient Hebrew religion isn't wholly and unequivocally about salty slaves slaughtering Canaanites and their beta revenge fantasies against Egyptians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Europeans, Americans etc etc etc.
>>495367
moar pls
>>495367
Red/blond Jewish girls are perfection
>>503600
>implying they aren't Russian. Do you even Ashkelon?
It is understood that jews were annihalated around the time of the fall of the second temple. They became judeo christians and syncretized their virgin religion. From there they tried to find more freedom of practice. Being a jew means you are nostalgic. Creating a sense of wonder for your spiritual home.
>>465141
Did this theory originate with The Controversy of Zion?
I'm very interested in the differentiation between the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah.
