Why are samurais so cool?
Were their armour and clothing specifically designed to be as aesthetically pleasing as possible or is it just a coincidence?
Not even weeaboo, just curious
>>460739
You're better off answering that question yourself.
I happen to think that the general samurai demon helmet is godawful.
>>460739
Why are samurais so cool?
That's objective
>Were their armour and clothing specifically designed to be as aesthetically pleasing as possible or is it just a coincidence?
Somewhat, but not really. The demonic helmets were made to be as scary as possible. The bodypart was designed to protect against the climate and weather too, which is why they wore alot of clothing under the armor.
Japanese didnt have alot of natural iron so most of the armors were made from leather, cloth and even wood, which is why they have that unique look.
>>460739
Because they look like Darth Vader.
>>460739
How good could their armor be if the weapon they used against it was a slashing sword? Even the shittiest maille stops slashing swords.
>>460779
>so most of the armors were made from leather, cloth and even wood
Gonna need some citation on that bud
Pic related, Japanese iron brigadine
>>460794
https://myarmoury.com/feature_jpn_armour.html
>>460790
>Why are samurais so cool?
>AAAAAHHHHH YOU CAN'T LIKE THEM KATANA A SHIIIIT YOU HEAR ME?!!?!!??!! A SHIIIITTTT
>>460794
>iron
hahahaha, what a bunch of poorfags
>>460794
that's lamellar, not brigandine
>>460794
Even Karuta armor was often made with leather instead of iron.
Iron was an expensive material and samurai werent known to be the richest people of the society, even if some could afford iron-made armor from working under a lord or whatever the reason.
Also keep in mind the developement of japanese armor, naturally the armor from later eras was made from better materials.
>>460790
every thread
anyway, katana's arent their main weapon. At various points of history it was the bow, naginata, spear or gun. swords were always sidearms/companion weapons
>>460814
>brigandine
>A brigandine is a form of body armour from the Middle Ages. It is a cloth garment, generally canvas or leather, lined with small oblong steel plates riveted to the fabric.
>>460815
But you just posted a picture of iron armour.
>>460822
I didn't say pic related did I?
>>460819
>At various points of history it was the bow
>bows reliably piercing plate
HA
>naginata
>slashing polearm reliably piercing plate
HA
>spear
>spear reliably piercing plate
HA
>or gun
Yeah that's good.
>swords were always sidearms/companion weapons
ame as in Europe, the difference? They were thrusting weapons capable of piercing plate when properly used, a Katana isn't.
>>460825
>>bows reliably piercing plate
Pro-tip: Japan didn't get plate until the 1400s
>>460825
A warrior wouldnt aim for the plate, they'd try to pierce throught the joint sections of the armor, often made with silk, leather and cloth, otherwise the person in the armor could not move nor bend their limbs.
>>460739
What the fuck is he doing in Brazil
>>460803
your source only mentions leather plates being a replacement and that it replacing steel was a RARE occurrence.
so your own source says you're full of shit
QUICK! Better go get a blog post that proves your point!
>>460831
>otherwise the person in the armor could not move nor bend their limbs.
Only if you're an inferior Japanese smith that can't into proper plate armor because of your tiny Asian island brain.
>>460834
but steel was used in later periods, anon, most samurai who existed in the history lived before that time, and thus most samurai couldnt have possibly used steel armor.
>>460833
Giving them some cultural enrichment
>>460831
>A warrior wouldnt aim for the plate
Would a warrior also cut the opponent in half using the Secret swallowtail technique with his ultra sharp folded over 1000 times dragon katana tempered in the snow of Mt- Fuji?!?!
>>460838
Neat, so your source is not only saying you're wrong it isn't even pertinent to what we're discussing.
>>460841
....Yes
>>460833
Fun fact
Brazil actually has a large Japanese diaspora living there.
>>460843
I don't understand what you're trying to point out and why you're so aggressive.
Is it wrong to say most samurai were poor men who used leather and hardwood armor? Is it wrong to say iron was a rare material, especially in the early samurai era?
You haven't proven me wrong, you just claim I am. I'm always willing to learn but you're acting like an asshole.
>>460852
>Is it wrong to say most samurai were poor men who used leather and hardwood armor?
It is if you're asked for a source and when you provide one it's:
A. Saying your claim is bullshit
and
B. Claimed, by you, to not even be relevant
>You haven't proven me wrong
I'm (although not actually *me* because I'm a completely different anon to the one that originally asked you for a source) asking YOU to PROVE what YOU said.
fucking idiot
GAWD!
>>460852
Honest question anon.
Are you a Japanese?
>>460821
is that thing metal plates riveted inside cloth or leather layers? no, it's not. it's metal plates thonged on each other.
>>460865
>is that thing metal plates riveted inside cloth or leather layers?
It just says the cloth is lined not that the lining has to be inside or outside, it can have an outer lining of plates and still be a brigandine.
>>460875
nope, propably the writer of that text thought that reader allready knew what a brigandine looks like and didn't think that it needs that detailed description. and even then, the important thing is are the plates RIVETED and are attached on the base, not on each other. that is not brigandine, that is a lamellar cuirass. deal with it.
>>460886
>RIVETED
>they tie it on so it's no longer a brigandine!
>HAHA!
>QUAKE AT MY USE OF SEMANTICS FOOOOOOOL
>QUAKE AND TREMBLE!
>TREEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMBBBBBLLLLLLLE!
It's plates fastened to a cloth shirt, it's a brigandine. deal with it
>>460739
The armor was highly stylized, while the masks for the helmets were designed to strike fear into the hearts of their enemies. I like knights more though.
>>460897
fucking weeaboo
>>460895
no, it's not. just google the word, read and look at some pictures. and shut up.
>>460899
What? But I just said? I'm not even going to try.
>>460900
>jfgi maaaaaaaaaaaaaan
>YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT DUUUUUUUUUDE
I did google it, that's how I got that definition which fits that picture.
It's a brigandine.
>>460739
>Samurai
>Cool
>Their armor has massive gaps and is objectively shit compared to plate.
Yeah man, so fucking cool.
>>460905
Not it isn't you fucking retard. Brig armor has no gaps at all as the plates are so tightly RIVETED together that nothing is exposed for a sword to slip through.
If it's tied together with string, it ain't a fucking brigandine. Deal with it weeb- no matter how far you reach Japanese armor will always be shit.
>>460895
>It's plates fastened to a cloth shirt
it's not. it's plates fastened to other plates, the cloth is there just to make wearing it slightly more comfortable. and even if it were, it would be coat-of-plates and not brigandine since it's sewn, not riveted.
>>460895
i like this guy
>>460914
>the cloth is there just to make wearing it slightly mor e comfortable
it is a showpiece in a museum, more comfortable for WHOM?
>>460913
>If it's tied together with string, it ain't a fucking brigandine.
sure it is
>>460906
They didn't really need to update their armor and weapons, seeing as Japanese war didn't evolve until guns came about.
>>460919
So what's it like being retarded anon? Or are you going to jump and say "ayy lmao I was just trollin man" to try to cover up your incredible stupidity?
>>460919
no, it is not.
>>460933
>hurr durr ur a retard because armor
neat
>>460935
yes, it is too
>>460938
Why yes, you are. You are incapable of understanding the definition of technical terms and improperly defend your points, purely using spam. While not retarded in the clinical sense, you certainly are retarded by 4chan's standards of being incapable of accepting that you are in fact, wrong.
>>460942
they tied the plates to each other instead of riveting them, big whoop it's still plates lining a cloth vest so it's a brigandine
>>460947
No it isn't you fucking moron. That's no different than lamellar armor, which is completely different from brigandine armor, which was exclusively a late development of the Coat of Plates that refers to riveted metal.
Learn to definition you fucking troll/retard.
>>460947
No, it's lamellar. Brigandine is plates riveted with rivets to cloth base, if it's attached otherwise than rivets and/or to something else than cloth or leather base, then It. Is. Not. A. Brigandine.
>>460905
>which fits that picture.
But it doesn't? Did you even read it before you posted it?
>>460913
in general japanese armor was harder to penetrate than chainmail.
Also most armor was made of a combination of leather and iron
>>461262
This. It had to be because the japanese swprds, the katanas, were very sharp. Probably the sharpest swords ever made. Japanese swordsmith worked on katanas for years folding the steel a thousand times to make them super strong. Nothin could compare to it.
>>460825
There is no such thing as a sword that pierces plate armor, that was never their purpose. If you have to kill someone in plate with a sword, your only chance is to stab them in the gaps under the arms, around the groin, or the face if it can be easily exposed.
>>461275
A thousand folds =/= folded a thousand times.
>>461275
yeah weaboos exaggerated the japanese sword. No one claims Japanese armor was equal to platemail, if only because it has certain gaps, but it was no more crap that what the teutonic knight was wearing
>>461302
>everyone else besides the Chinese
Does that dumb weeaboo fuck know that katanas were copied from Tang dynasty Chinese swords?
>>461314
They didn't use blast furnaceses in Japan
>>461302
It should be noted that battlefield swords wouldn't have shattered easily, they were made with a much thicker geometry than most swords today, and the edge wasn't razer sharp. Still probably would have been somewhat less durable than the best European blades, but its fragile nature is somewhat exaggerated.
>>461314
the katana is an almost entirely different animal from he tang blades they imported. just look at them
>>461302
Why are blast furnaces bad?
>>461331
They aren't.
You just need to refine the pig iron in another forge.
>>461262
No. Maille when coupled with a gambeson was freakishly durable and could even tank couched lance strikes with no critical injury to the wearer from concussive force. Japanese armor may have great protection on the location of the lamellar "plates", but the issue is that Japanese armor does not cover gabs very well. Especially in the early pieces, there is an absurd amount of areas where you can simply thrust a spear or sword and find no armored defense- a rapier is probably the best weapon to use against a samurai besides the obvious choice of polearms.
Maille while definitely having weaker defense than the wooden/leather or iron scales, it covered nearly 100% of the body, and its protection only grew with the addition of the coat of plates over vital parts of the body that became common place in the 13th century.
>>461321
It's not that they're fragile as in "lol shatter" as just the blade will get fucked up from use. You'll have cuts in your sword blade, or rapidly blunt it if it's all you've got to parry with or attack an enemy in armor. To be honest I haven't a fucking clue why the Japs decided the Katana was a good "pistol" analogous defense when their primary weapon was lost or not usable. A battle axe would be cheaper to make and replace than a katana, and would fuck up armor easy.
>>461293
>>461293
>If you have to kill someone in plate with a sword, your only chance is to stab them in the gaps under the arms
That was actually what I was getting at I just didn't want to be an autist that described every last detail. You can do that with a straight sword you can't do that with a curved slicing sword.
>>463091
Well you can anon, it's just not going to be very effective at all.
>where they designed to be aesthetically pleasing
Yeah, that's generally the second goal clothes serve after prgamtic use.
>>463094
Stabbing people in exposed areas through the maille/padding under the plate with an arming sword won't be effective at all?
I disagree, it'll be very effective.
>>463099
>>463099
dubs confirm it's a Brigandine.
>>463104
No, I mean using a curved sword to halfsword isn't going to be very effective. It might do the job, but the job is going to be pretty sloppy.
>>463105
>you're saying I'm wrong?!?!
>ur a troll! TROOLLL!
>BAITING TROOOOOLLLLLLLL!
ok
>>463110
>No, I mean using a curved sword to halfsword isn't going to be very effective.
So if I don't phrase shit absolutely to your liking you're just going to pop up and rephrase it for me even if you're not significantly changing the underlying message of my post? Do you have any idea how both annoying and utterly unnecessary that is anon? Have you ever once in your life considered that you might legitimately be an asshole and should try to change yourself?
>>463119
Anon I'm not an asshole, I'm a dick. I take offense at being associated with assholes.
Japanese Samurai were highly overrated back then. Now, they are highly underrated.
The opposite happened to the French. It went to "lol retreat" to "French knights much superior to others".
>>463131
dick's don't spend their time on 4chan nonsensically correcting posts that don't need correcting. You're an asshole anon. For your own sake change yourself.
>>463112
He wandered out of his safe space anon, don't take it personally.
this thread is fucking terrible.
>>463146
all weeaboo threads are
words cannot describe just how fucking gay and terrible this gay fucking thread is.
>>463152
>it's right there in the definition.
definitions are made to be flexible, rivets can be replaced anon, stop being so autistic about it.
>>460812
Why do weebs freak out as soon as a question is asked?
>>463156
ur gay
ur gay and terrible
>>460917
The wearer, the museum wouldn't have added it if it wasn't historically accurate.
all these fucking strings would fill up with lice while at war.
>>463203
why then do none of the pieces recently posted also have the silk shirts worn underneath them? Could it be that in an effort to be historically accurate they replaced the old worn and tattered shirt originally sewn on the plates with a new one? Is that really all that farfetched? I'll answer that for you, it isn't at all and you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
I like those later 16th century suits of armor better than earlier ones.
But I kinda dislike the type of warfare fought then by the samurai.
>>463164
Definitions aren't made to be flexible anon, because words and phrases are created to DEFINE specific things. A technical word like "hauberk" or "brigandine" suddenly becoming flexible invalidates the word's existence.
Samurai armor is by and large lamellar, not brigandine.
>>463279
it's a tiny difference and I choose to ignore it, you literally can't ignore it though because you're autistic. I understand anon, it's not your fault.
PS.
Rivets don't matter.
>>463302
>A brigandine is a form of body armour from the Middle Ages. It is a cloth garment, generally canvas or leather, lined with small oblong steel plates riveted to the fabric.
>>463162
>the jews fear the samurai
>>463290
>tfw no qt onna waifu
w2c spoopy samurai masks?
>>460779
>That's objective
>OBJECTIVE
An opinion being objective... nigga wat?
>>463053
I was referring to the material itself rather than the gaps.
though there are examples of japanese chain mail
>>463062
And I am saying early battle field swords were much more durable than most modern ones. Especially choto or long field swords were popular during the nambokucho period because of how durable they were compared to weapons with wooden shafts, they were very expensive however.
>battle axe would be cheaper to make
The Japanese did have battle axes, and they were extremely popular with poorer warriors during the nambokucho period, but they dont really make a great sidearm, especially on horseback
Samurai only look cool in manga, where they are explicitly designed to look like young male rock idols to appeal to teenage girls
>>460739
Those who call samurai cool, risk offending the many Chinamen and Chinkaboos who infest /his/
>>460739
>you'll never withstand baka gaijin pellets, then proceed to behead the weak while claiming to be a righteous warrior
>>460739
>>463851
Japanese armour originated as rip-offs of Chinese Tang and Song dynasty armour lol fucking weeaboos
>>463812
>implying Asians get mad at other Asian cultures
Go fuck yourself white supremacist cunt
>>464003
asian here, fuck you asians hate other asians
>>464055
Fuck off white troll
>>464001
so did pretty much everything in Japanese culture. Are you claiming none of that stuff changed or evolved over a thousand years?
>>463555
>I was referring to the material itself rather than the gaps.
I refer to the suit overall. Gaps are bad and need to be covered, although later period armor fixed this.
>They had battleaxes
They did? I though they focused more on polearms and maces. I don't see though why a battleaxe would be a bad weapon to use on horseback- it'll do a better job than a sword for certain, and can even be used to yank other guys off their horses. Although for obvious reasons a one-handed warhammer would be better for the job.
>>464100
Song dynasty lasted until late 1200s. Japanese westernized in the early 1800s.
So they were still being influenced by China for hundreds of years.
>>460860
Holy shit, calm down. Stop being an asshole.
>>464228
A battle axe or at least the japanese one was a two handed weapon, but it lacked the reach of the spear and naginata, so it would be a poor choice for horseback.
The japanese didnt really have a mace that I am aware of. The closes thing that comes to mind is a tetsubo, or the iron club, a massive weapon that would pretty much crush anything it was swung at. a lighter wood version also existed.
a sword can be wielded one handed from horse back, and the tachi is mounted in such a way that it was easy to draw from horse back. one could very easily switch from bow to sword if need be.
>>464255
Well obviously it would be a terrible replacement for a spear to poke people form horseback, but I'm talking about a one handed sidearm used as a backup weapon, like how a katana or longsword was just backup weapon for a Samurai or Knight in the late middle ages.
This for example will do you a LOT more good than a Katana as a backup weapon. Not only can it punch through armor with enough force from a galloping swing, but you can stab and hook armor with it. Then whip out your tanto and gut the fucker like a fish.
>>463290
That's a great suit. It's nice that in this perspective you can see where they've used mail to fill some of the gaps.
>>463416
Bear in mind these are the showpieces. Kind of like how high ranking individuals often receive martial gifts like engraved weapons, firearms with inlays and beautiful designs. A lot of things like this don't ever get used and become heirlooms. That's not to say that every samurai who ever bought or was given a nice suit of armour didn't wear it, but I think a lot of artifacts like these end up in storage because the original owner dies or retires, or it becomes part of a collection.
>>464264
I will agree that the tachi would only have a reach advantage over that, though it would also be somewhat easier to use one handed, as the tachi of the day was somewhat longer and more durable than swords made by smiths today, but that also means it would be heavier.
However I figure that the tachi was mostly used from horseback to slash fleeing foot soldiers, and only rarely to fight other mounted samurai. If he intended to fight in melee he would arm himself with a two handed weapon, regardless of whether he was on foot or horseback.
>>464344
He could? Seems a bit difficult to carry a two handed weapon to fight on horseback against other heavy cav.
>>464352
I imagine it would take some skill, but there are records of it being done. Both the naginata and even choto (field swords) are recorded as being used on horseback
>>463882
>>463416
the cord is made of silk, which is actually incredibly durable when woven into thick ropes. But yes, certain types of armour were quite high maintenance.
Armour of the later periods often used larger plates, frequently riveted together.
pic sort of related. You can see the significantly larger piece of metal for the chest, although the skirt is still made of a lot of smaller pieces tied together with silk
>>464888
What impresses me about Japanese armor isnt so much the later pieces, but that they were able to mass produce relatively cheap armor for foot soldiers.
in terms of quality and protection, some of the later pieces are second only European plate armor. So all things considered the well to do had good protection
>>460739
Hussars are objectively cooler though
>>464001
and the nips took the ugly ass chink armor and made something pleasant too look at.
>>465435
*gayer
>>463148
Which is funny considering we're posting on a clone of a Japanese image board.
Anyhow Japan was lucky throughout its history that it didn't get conquered by the Chinese, Mongols, or other Asiatics with superior weaponry and armor.
I even wonder how a Jurchen/Manchu conquest if Japan would be like.
>>466144
Why would they be able to succeed in an invasion their successors failed at?
much better warriors than vikings
Cool armors. Show me more.
>>466547
>>468038
>>468039
that shit you see on top of the leg guards is [spoiler]brigandine[/spoiler]
all right fuck it I’m out. night
>>460739
>just a coincidence
Everything in warefare before the gunpowder was made to look intimidating.
>you will never wear a samurai armor
My fedora hurts.
>>466481
They only had to build better ships.
>>468526
You can't possibly think a Chinese invasion of Japan would have gone well. Besides the logistics of it, the Japanese were simply better at land warfare for most of their history. The mongols couldnt land because the japanese had built a wall and repelled their eariler attempts, and had the storm not have come they still would have been bogged down near the beach head, unable to make any progress into the heart of Kyushu, let alone Honshu
>>460739
Yes and yes.
I'd guess the long overlapping plates were based on the same principle as Japanese overhanging rooves: give torrential rain somewhere else to go.
>>460739
Because Japan is rich country advertising,supporting and propulsive the culture of himself.
In history the sabre better than the katana by quality of steel and ephesus, however engraving at katana is hot and patriotic.
>>460739
Yes, the samurai armour that is so iconic today developed when samurai weren't really fighting any wars, so they just focused on 'sthetics and looking scary to frighten peasants to better collect taxes and shit. Kinda lika a "warrior/gentleman-class". Basically everything that people now associate with samurai emerged way after they stopped fighting any wars.
>>468599
>Besides the logistics of it, the Japanese were simply better at land warfare for most of their history.
I dont think you can say that at all given that nips only fought nips. Meanwhile China was challenged by a plethora of enemies. The Steppe Department most of which couldve given the Nips the black eye had it been attached to the mainland.
>>460860
woah there anon, you're like a woman on period
>>461275
most of their iron resource are impure, hence they need to fold it a "thousand" times because iron is not abundant in Japan - this does not guarantee that Japanese steel is better than Western steel
Whats with the staches on the faceplates lol
>>460739
It looks like garbage, fucking tree armor. Only weak as weebs find it aesthetically pleasing.
>>470758
That's a fair point, if they had been connected to the continent they probably would have been overtaken by China, though in the one land war they did fight the Chinese did not do well against them on land.
I still think an invasion of japan by continental forces would not have gone well
>>464003
East Asians hate each other
