>muh globalism
>muh trade
>muh spread of islam
>muh pony express
>people think that the mongols were a net positive to humanity
>muh no real point just a collection of words with muh and condescension chevrons in front
>>424006
The mongols just went around playing a game of conquer shit land and get the biggest empire by ruling over a desert.
b-but muh religious tolerance!
>>424006
hello pecka
Only white liberal racist shits who do not care about the destruction of Islamic civilization worship the Mongols.
Its all just a game to these Western liberal shits who do not live with the consequences of the Mongols setting back civilization in the Middle East.
>>424142
Liberals are the only ones who view large numbers of Muslims being killed as a bad thing.
I personally like the Mongols for killing large numbers of Arabs and Chinese and giving western civilization that boost at a critical moment.
>>424152
>Liberals are the only ones who view large numbers of Muslims being killed as a bad thing.
Or just about any human being with the capacity to feel empathy.
>>424152
10/10, the plague helped them big time
>>423997
>ayyubid
AHAHAHAH WHAT THE FUCK
most of that space in europe, caucasus and anatolia wasn't actually part of mongol empire but states classified as their vassals just because they paid a tribute to keep them away
>>424192
this
>>424152
>Everyone who isn't a 16 year old /b/-browsing edgelord is a liberal
Kill yourself
>>424038
>shit land
> most of china, korea, most of eastern Europe and persian
Do you have any idea about what you're saying?
I think the Mongols were a good thing; for Europe that is. It managed to get Europe on it's feet and weakened their rivals, the Muslims. The Mongols rekt the shit out of the Islamic world and burned Baghdad and Damascus to the fucking ground. The Mongols even almost had an alliance with the French.
Honestly, I think the Mongol Empire would've lasted a little longer or at least be more stable if 1/2 of it didn't convert to Islam. Islam fucked the Mongol Empire. Blame Berke Khan.
>>423997
>mongols barely touch finland
>WE WAZ KHANZ N SHEEEIIIT
>>425658
It was an Empire built by Central Asian Nomads. It's almost fated to collapse on the get go.
Cunts cant into controlled expansion/centralization of government.
>>424152
It's the opposite really. White liberals are the only ones to defend Genghis Khan, because he's not white.
Had Genghis Khan been white, oh boy, we wouldn't hear the end of it.
>>425682
most of the ethnic finns lived in that area at the time
migration happened later
>>425180
>mongol empire
It was part of it, they gave armies to the mongols
see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wadi_al-Khazandar
>>424038
>conquer shit land
If it was so easy then why has no european empire ruled over china, persia, korea, and parts of eastern europe at the same time?
Europeans btfo, go back to ruling niggers and abos.
>>425684
This.
>>424192
>Caring about the humans who cut off the heads of people that wanted to trade with them.
>My glorious Islam, the religion of peace!
The greedy caliph got what he deserved, Genghis Khans horde was the punishment of God afterall.
>>423997
"The Russian heads fell beneath the swords of the Tatars as grass beneath the scythe." -- Novgorodian Chronicles, 1238 a.d.
We miss the Mongols. We need to talk to them.
We go to the steppes, but they don't seem to be home.
We need them, because they were the only nuclear power before the twentieth century. They were not human, as we, after 1945, are not human--much though we try to be, cowards that we are.
The Mongols are our only ancestors. What little we know about them is charged with a terrible and beautiful alienness.
They poured molten silver in the eyes and ears of traitors--a visual joke.
They could be compassionate: when Genghiz Khan captured Jamukha, his closest friend, he did Jamukha the honor of killing him by rolling him up in a carpet and crushing him with boulders, so that the blood would remain in the body.
They had their own sense of righteousness: when the small Slavic town of Kozelsk, near Kaluga, resisted them for months, they dubbed it "the wicked town." So upset were they with the scandalous behavior of Kozelsk that they not only killed all the inhabitants (which went without saying), but drowned the child-prince, Vladimir, in human blood. That'll teach'em to be wicked!
Only water could stop them. Only two of their campaigns failed: the attacks on Java and Japan. The Mongols were inland creatures--centaurs, four-legged archers; they had to rely on mere humans to transport them across the sea. Like witches, they lost something of their power when crossing water. The Japanese were saved twice: once by a lucky typhoon, the kamikaze or holy wind invoked by suicide bombers in the last stages of WW II, and once by the confusion among the Mongols as they tried to disembark: the Samurai attacked and destroyed the invaders before they could mount their ponies.
>>426189
Once on the pony, bow in play, the Mongols were invulnerable; they danced just at the edge of bow-range, dispatching humans until it was time to go among the dead and collect one's arrows, burn the villages and move on to the next days work of planet-cleansing.
When the Russians first encountered the Mongols, it happened the way the Tasmanian Devil appears in a Looney Toons cartoon: first all the animals in the forest come rushing past, fleeing together, lion and rabbit and squirrel no longer afraid of each other, sharing the far greater terror of what's behind them. Then the Devil himself appears.
It was their old enemies the Polovtsi, who warned the thirteenth-century Russian princes of the Mongols. The Polovtsi came to beg the Russians' help against this new terror from the East. The Polovtsi explained things simply: "They have taken our country; tomorrow they will take yours." The Southern Russian princes, for once, behaved sensibly--at first. They acknowledged their common peril and formed an alliance among themselves and with the hated Polovtsi against the Mongols.
The Mongols appeared, quiet and uncanny, to make the Russians another offer. Their ambassadors said "We have come against our slaves and grooms, the accursed Polovtsi. [The Mongols always thought in horsey terms. "slave" equals "groom."] We have no quarrel with you; be at peace with us." Rarely did the Mongols give anyone a chance like that. And, just like the last of the reckless Russian princes, Nicholas II when the Germans warned him not to destroy his people on behalf of the French, the Russian princes chose not to listen. A foolhardy chivalry ruled them from the moment they took the non-career-enhancing step of murdering the Mongol envoys.
>>426193
But they still could have won, if they hadn't been ruled by the same suicidal chivalrous recklessness. For once, all the princes of Southern Russia were united. They made a huge and formidable army, which advanced into the steppes in 1224 to find the Tatar horde. Encountering the Mongols on the Kalka, near the sea of Azov, the princes' cavalry charged without even informing the Kievans who made the bulk of the army. They were destroyed; then the Mongols went about methodically destroying the disorganized Kievan forces. At least 10,000 Kievans died, and the Southern Russian forces were broken. The surviving princelings reverted to form, making private deals with the Mongols--but the Mongols, faced with such "wickedness," were not in a generous mood any longer. Mstislaf, Prince of Kiev, was holed up in a fortified camp on the Kalka. The Mongols offered him his, his sons' and his retainers' lives if they surrendered. They did; the Mongols massacred the garrison and then crushed the Prince and his two sons-in-law under planks. In the Slavic view, this was a refinement of cruel treachery; but the Mongols thought in their own, very alien and idiosyncratic ways. To them, this might have been an honorable death, which kept the blood in the body--and to them, the blood was the life.
The Southern Russian princes had come close to organized resistance; the Northern princes, terrified, could not unite and were wiped out one by one. After a ten-year quiet which was almost as terrifying as the first onslaught (the Mongols had gone home to attend the coronation of Ogodai as Genghiz's successor), they returned, annihilating the Bulgars, another former enemy of Russia, then turned on the Northern princes.
>>426197
The next century was smoke, blood, disaster. The only stories the Russians could use to console themselves were of the sort conquered people always tell: grand defiance, magnificent gestures which have no hope of altering the fact of defeat. The Princes of Ryazan, marching out to meet certain death, were offered a deal by the Mongols: "If you want peace, give us a tenth of your wealth." The folk tales have the princes saying in grand disdain, "When we are dead, you may have the whole." The Mongols' reply, not recorded, would have been something on the order of, "OK; thanks!"
When Fyodor of Ryazan had died in due course, his wife, Euphrasia, followed the practice of virtuous wives, choosing to leap from the terem (harem) rather than face the fate worse than death. There's no proof she did so; these stories are the only way the defeated humans could go on living under alien rule.
The Russians gleaned from the great disaster only the bitter consolation prizes of defeated peoples, above all the right to explain what went wrong, whatever went wrong, as legacy of "the Mongol yoke." It's easy for Westerners to mock this sort of grand version of "I had a bad childhood," but it's even harder to imagine Voltaire and Hume springing up on soil that had felt the Mongol ponies' hooves. They were good enough reason to explain many things, above all disappearances and vanishings..
The Mongols specialized in vanishing and making vanish. They didn't build cities, they erased them. Karakorum, the Mongols' one attempt to build a capital city, is a rectangle of mud walls now. The Mongols' greatest memorials are negative: huge blank spots on the map. Eastern Iran, once a populous, irrigated land, is a blank now, courtesy of the Mongol cleaners. They erased the cities and, far more devastatingly, the irrigation systems. Humans breed like cockroaches, and will always repopulate plundered cities--but if you smash their water supply, they can't come back.
>>426201
But the one quality which sets them apart from every other tribe is their utter, superhuman immunity to the God-virus. The Mongol attitude to religion was wholly alien. They found the religions of the conquered humans handy, to keep the livestock under control, but could see no difference between the various superstitions and were equally sardonic about all of them. They cared no more about the beliefs of their subjects than a farmer cares what his dairy cattle think about reincarnation. It's true that Genghiz disliked Muslims perhaps more than subjects of other cults, but only because the Khan's armies encountered more opposition from the Muslims, while the Christians, far weaker in Central Asia, were mostly preachers--entertainers on dull nights after a day of erasing villages.
No human tribe has ever managed to keep from catching the God virus-but then, the Mongols were not human. All the survivors agreed on that. An Armenian priest describes them:
"They were terrible to look at and indescribable, with large heads like a Buffalo, narrow eyes like a baby bird, a snub nose like a cat, big snouts like a dog, narrow waists like an ant, and short legs like a hog. They are as strong as lions but as shrill-voiced as hawks....They bear huge litters like snakes and eat like wolves. Death does not appear among them, for they live 300 years. They do not eat bread at all."
A science-fiction writer wisely said, "The thing about aliens is--they're ALIEN." You can't understand them. You never will. That's true of the Mongols: they were so unlike the people who "eat bread" that chroniclers can only describe them by resorting to a whole zoo of analogies, like the Armenian does: they were like ants, lions, snakes, birds, dogs...everything but human. The Mongols referred to themselves as a "swarm of birds"; they flew, while the humans trudged. The humans said the same: "The Mongols appear where least expected," coming and going like a wry, lethal God.
>>426208
The Khans claimed to be the descendants of a she-wolf. They tinkered with humans; they played. When Ogotai, son of Genghiz Khan, captured North China, his lieutenants suggested that the human population be erased, because all these walls--the houses and palaces and cities which were no more to the Mongols than termite mounds--spoiled what could have been good pasture. The Khan considered it, but decided as a matter of policy that those bipeds could be useful. And it would have been a lot of work to erase them, because there were at least twenty million people in North China. He let them live. That's why China is not pasture today.
In Iran, the Mongols chose to erase the human population: that's why much of Iran is desert today.
And that's why we need to talk to the Khans now: because they are the only people before the invention of nuclear weapons to have treated the world as a garden to be pruned as they chose. We need to compare notes with Genghiz and Kublai Khan, with Subotai and Ogodai. But it's difficult, because the Mongols are coming into fashion and becoming extinct.
The two processes are linked: extinction first, then fashionability.
The missionaries are in charge of the actual extinction. As the eXile's inimitable War Nerd recently pointed out, the missionaries are the military wing of Christianity, the real stormtroubadors. They are busily infecting the Mongols now. Mongolia is converting to Christianity faster than any other country in the world. Some reports say the whole population will be Christian in ten years. Plump white folks from Nebraska and Texas are fanning out over the steppes in expensive new Toyota Landcruisers, visiting the most remote herders' tents to breathe the God-virus on them. And these Mongols, the shy remnant, lack the Khans' immunity to the God-virus; they're succumbing to it instantly.
>>426210
For the herders, the switch from Buddha and the shamans to Jesus is simple: Jesus brings stuff every time his followers come by, while Buddha never brought anything. The old Buddhist monks just sat in their lamaseries, chanting; the Christian missionaries, these inexplicable white people in vehicles worth more than most Mongolian towns, drop off blankets and pots every time they come by. And the shamans' drums don't work as well as the drugs the plump visitors bring.
So the Mongols are finished. Already they've descended to human; soon they'll be churchgoing stooges--less than human. Ten years from now they'll all be in cheap suits, singing Come to Jesus in the key of C and studying accounting at Oral Roberts U.. Then the Khans will really be gone.
The most grotesque aspect of the whole thing is that Hollywood is going Buddhist/shamanistic as quickly as the Gobi is going Christian, so that in a decade the Dalai Lama may build a new, Lhasa-style palace overlooking the HOLLYWOOD sign while Pat Robertson powers his wheelchair up the ramp of a brand-new Jesusarium & Bible College built on the ruins of Genghiz's capital.
Somehow, though, it's not a fair exchange. Hollywood Mongols just wouldn't be very good. Hollywood has never done the Mongols very well. John Wayne actually played Genghiz in a movie called The Conqueror, but I've heard it was one of the worst movies ever. Didn't see it myself; I don't go in for camp, especially about serious matters.
But it's foolish, I guess, whining about the extinction of the Mongols, when all the warrior peoples are being phased out, along with the big cats and other remaining predators. In the cubicle world, no predators are allowed--not without ties'n'smiles. Dress code.
>>426215
But don't worry, we'll mourn'em as we kill them off. Just like the Brits mourned the Highlanders, once they were wiped out. Just like the Americans mourned the Sioux once they were erased. Just as, when the last wolf in the lower 48 was shot, wolf posters started appearing in every sensitive kid's bedroom. The wolf-cult is big now; CDs of wolf-howls sell almost as big as humpback whale songs, and there's a whole subgenre of New Age music in which wolf howls are tracked over bad jazz, for meditation soundtracks. We love 'em, once they're gone.
That's why the camera crews are fanning out across the steppes right now, along with the missionaries. The missionaries are the kill-teams; the moviemakers are there to make videos of the death, like the ones perky office-workers with colon cancer make of their last weeks on Earth, the kind shown at those new-style cheery funerals so popular these days.
Julia Roberts just did a documentary about her stay with a family of Mongol herders, who were presented as friendly, kindly, and a bit dim. Nothing to fear, or interest, any one.
The Russians go a little further, of course, toward the thing we really like about Mongols: so, in the quasi-Russian film Urga, a poor Mongol herder dreams he meets Genghiz Khan, the "Oceanic Ruler," himself. The modern Mongol comes face to face with the Khan's entourage, and is ashamed to be seen as he is: unarmed, harmless, ripe for infection with the Christian virus.
>>426222
The modern Mongol, dim and affable--nobody except the missionaries really wants THAT Mongol. What the rest of us dream of is the Khan's horde: the black arrow that swept across Eurasia like a hundred-mile wide cropduster, leaving utter silence in its wake. Every boy who came on the Mongols in the "M" volume of the encyclopedia slobbered over those black arrows on the map, placed the flat of his hand over them and moved it forward following the path of the Horde, making little hissing noises as he imagined the progress of Death incarnate.
For centuries the wilder Europeans have been making the black pilgrimage to Central Asia, trying to find THOSE Mongols. They never find anything but the shy, polite herders--Julia Roberts' gracious hosts.
Last year I saw a five-hour documentary by some German woman who followed a group of yak-herders around the steppes. The Mongols were very quiet: the only sound for most of the five hours was the yak-bells clanging. The herders smiled embarrassedly, aware that they were somehow unsatisfactory. There was a festival with wrestling, and long shots of people crunching in frozen mud--but the Mongols we all want to see were not in evidence.
And they're not to be found. The Western Khanates were absorbed by the Islam they had done so much to destroy, and subsided into feebleness, so that their Russian vassals began pushing south and east, taking back what had been lost and more. The herders, and their decadent little rulers, were all there was to be found. No one to hold to account; no one who even remembered the days before these beings who had been something more, less, other than human became mere people.
>>426013
That was a rare occurrence though, Armenians did it for political reasons, they weren't forced to do it by the Mongols.
They did a bunch of interesting shit, who cares if it was positive? Is that really what you look for in history? Where are all the threads on Alexander Fleming then?
Why are a bunch of people mad at the Mongols suddenly? Have they started to become popular so now there's pushback or something? Genghis' and Subotai's army organisation and the hordes sweeping across Eurasia are a cool story, why be a faggot about it?
>>423997
>Southern Song still standing
You know, for being a pussy state, they held out pretty good against the Mongols.
>>424092
what is a pecka?
>>426161
I'm talking about individual fucking civilians getting caught up in it all, obviously not soldiers looking for a fight.
>>426246
>valuing human life means you're from Reddit!
do you ever leave /pol/?
>>425658
>managed to get europe on its feet
>destroyed the largest armies in europe at the time capable of defending the continent from a mongol invasion
only reason they didn't fuck us is because khans kept dying consecutively from drink and internal dissensions
The Mongols pony express was a poorly funded and poorly maintained mess that collapsed even faster than the rest of the Empire did
>>429116
>noone ever wanted to rule china and persia
Keep believing that europeans could conquer both of them, the biggest european empire was one where the "strong men" sailed around strong nations to enslave natives or weak tribes with technology 10 times more advanced them theirs or lands where there were barely any people at all, like canada.
>In contrast with the tortuous alleys of medieval Europe, Cambaluc had streets so straight and wide that a person could see from one city wall to the other. Here were “brought articles of greater cost and rarity, and in greater abundance . . . , than to any other city in the world,” says the Venetian. “No day in the year passes that there do not enter the city 1000 cart-loads of silk alone.”
>>423997
>finland
>mongol empire
THIS ISN'T FUNNY GUISE
>>429259
>
>You're a fucking strange person. I can tell by your painfully 'articulate' way of writing that you're a fucking fedora lord of the highest degree.
>Just reading this mess makes me shiver at how odd you are.
Fag
