>god tier
Humans are inheritantly good, and only commit evil deeds because atrophy dorces them too
>mid tier
Humans are inheritantly evil, and only form alliances/society because it benefits them
>plebcore tier
Humans are inheritantly neutral. This isnt possible because good and evil are defined by us.
>>412875
Humans are forced to fight eachother.
>>412854
>This isnt possible because good and evil are defined by us.
So is neutrality
>retard tier
The properties of "good" and "evil" exist objectively, somehow
>enlightened tier
Humans act according to their biological drive, which results in behaviors that can be defined as "good" or "evil"
/tg/ go home, you're drunk.
>>413249
>fedora tier
everything is reducible to an absurd dance of chemicals
>enlightened tier
we are chemicals that can know ourselves as chemicals, that is a wondrous, miraculous thing that deserves our reverence and respect
>>413269
I agree with the latter. It doesn't make good and evil exist.
>>412854
Unless you are going to bother explaining your positions it's usless.
Without an objective basis for for morality we default to them being things just defined by us. It's very hard to actually avoid this position because after all if you say "xyz is good" you are yourself defining the mroality. To have objective morality it must be defined by a thing that is not a person. Basically your only option is Plato.
Humans are inherently selfish, and commit acts purely out of self-interest, always considering their own self ahead of any other factor.
The benefits of giving away some of your wealth (power) to a beggar are many if you are intent on doing so. Not only would you feel negatively for not doing so, but you feel extra positively about doing so, and perhaps gain some dopamine, and you can also later use this action as leverage in a social situation to gain social likability (power), probably worth more than the pittance (power) given to the beggar.
>>413524
I should also mention that of course biological needs are what drives the selfish actions. Lust for power and reproduction (sex) are the main drives of the human race.
the most interesting ideologies all begin with the premise that humans are evil, btw
>>413536
Literally anime villain-tier shit
Humans are inherently childlike, in all stages of life, requiring their needs be met and going to varying degrees to achieve them. It's why people who understand this end up dissipating conflict tension by addressing both parties like really big preschoolers. Understanding humanity as a whole as children running around and doing what is fun or what they think won't get them in trouble is essential in understanding the human spirit.
>>412875
I regret making this post and bumping this thread
Is there any way I can take it back?
>>413536
Interesting =/= correct
People are inherently good.
Only misguided and/or mentally defective people are "bad".
>>412854
you forgot
>esoteric tier
Humans that are spiritually evolved are inherently good and humans that are spiritually unevolved are evil out of ignorance.
So, OP, it's clear that you can't spell, but can you actually formulate definitions for good and evil which are grounded in observable and measurable principles?
>>413670
good = sustains an economy that pushes humans towards the space age
bad = not that
>>412854
>critical tier
Humans want to know why we care about good/evil in the first place
>>413687
Well, I agree, but those are still subjective.
>>413269
>we are chemicals that can know ourselves as chemicals, that is a wondrous, miraculous thing that deserves our reverence and respect
Okay? That still doesn't make us anything more than a bundle of chemicals, nor does it mean "good" and "evil" are objective.
>>413687
>good = sustains an economy that pushes humans towards the space age
And why is that good?
>bad = not that
And why is that bad?
>>413990
Because we are humans and our goal is to survive. As an individual or as a species. Black holes and galaxies do not have any more valiant goals than us, they intend to simply die when atrophy comes around to demand it's dues.
>>414217
>Because we are humans and our goal is to survive. As an individual or as a species
Why?
>>414265
Because natural selection designed us too.
We can see into the future and set a course, unlike black holes however.
>>414288
>Because natural selection designed us too.
So what? Why is that what determines what is good and evil?
>>414299
Just jumping in here, here's how I see it:
On a cosmic scale, nothing fucking matters, there is no good or bad
It's impractical to think on that scale -- instead, it is practical to think on the scale of "humanity" or "earth" or some such. When you dial it in like that, things become a little more straightforward.
Then you lay down a moral axiom, like "humanity as a species must endure," or, "the earth must maintain its ability to support life."
At this point, objective morality works completely. You just need to think in the right relative terms.
>rich, elite and enlightened tier
Humans are inheritantly good, and only commit evil deeds because atrophy dorces them too
>poor ghetto trash people tier
Humans are inheritantly evil, and only form alliances/society because it benefits them
>useless armchair philosopher tier
Humans are inheritantly neutral. This isnt possible because good and evil are defined by us.
poor people have hearts of gold is such a bullshit trope. only rich people can afford to have empathy and benevolence since their own needs are met. imagine a time where you had a desperate problem and pretty much just shit on everybody you met. that's how poor people think every second.
>>413269
>that is a wondrous, miraculous thing that deserves our reverence and respect
That is an opinion, not a fact.
>good
>evil
Oi, what year it is, mate?
>>413536
Name one
Humans are capable of both good and evil, love and hate, etc. and in many ways can be said to be the being which embodies the identity of dichotomies a higher unity of many pairs of insubstantial elements of existence. Humans enter into association with each other for myriad reasons. Associations exist only in the actuality of their constituent members and therefore cannot be granted higher priority than these members. A body politic acts and thinks as an individual mind, as do all corporate bodies.
>>415009
>I exist, wow
>that's just like your opinion man
Kill yourself faggot
>>413989
Fuck off back to /sci/ you joyless dead inside STEMfag
>>412854
plebcore tier here. im kind of upset. will you tell me why its plebcore opinion? most people I know take one of the other two options thus making them more common and less rare and therefore more pleb
>>414217
Natural selection ISN'T about survival though. It's about a gradual improvement. For fuck sakes if all we needed to do was survive we wouldn't evolve past the microscopic or plant level.
"Survival as a species" is also a philosophical position that completely denies the individual. We can now bring back slavery because it helps the group at the cost of a few individuals.
>>413249
>that can be defined as "good" or "evil"
I would say perceived rather than defined for an enlightened tier, because definitions are subject to personal biases
>>413405
this
>>412854
To do good and evil you must do something that is not to your benefit.
Because evil people have no motivation to do anything that is not to their own benefit there is no such thing as evil. Psychopaths and the like are just doing it for psychological reasons. Either that or evil and neutrality are the same thing or it is not possible for a mortal to be evil.
So the truth is a mix between god and pleb tier.
>>412854
>>415003
what is perceived by one to be good is considered evil by others. take for example Hitler killing the jews. do you think Hitler genuinely thought he was a bad person for killing these people? no of course not. he was trying to save Germany, and in his mind this was working towards his goals. in his mind he was a GOOD person.
Similarly, the jewish-american soldier that fantasized about killing Hitler with his bare hands believed that his actions against German soldiers were justified - the Germans were evil from his perspective - so he too thought he was a GOOD person.
the result is that good and evil depend on perspective and bias. taking and unbiased and logical viewpoint leads one to take up the 'useless armchair philosopher's' perspective. I cannot understand how anyone could come to any other conclusion without not putting their own biases aside.
People are inherently susceptible to operant conditioning and use morality to justify the resulting bias.
>>415303
heh
HE SAYS WHAT WHERE ALL THINKING
>>412854
>alternative normal tier
Humans have inherent traits, some of which lend themselves to behaviors which are good and some of which lend themselves to behaviors which are bad, so man will have inbuilt narcissism at a young age, but at the same time has a genuine desire to be kind to his fellow man built in. Genetic factors and experience both contribute to some degree to behavior, good or bad. That and >>415303
>glorious egoist tier
So many spooks.
>>415321
but then what defines good and bad actions. its subjective to who it effects.
>>413269
>Say something coherent
>"FEDORA "
>"FUCK OFF TO /sci/ STEM FAG"
Nice board.
Nice field to study.
>>415299
>Hitler disproves morality
Man I remember high school
>>415337
Which is why either both are spooks -simple ideological abstractions based on self interest- or there is an objective morality enforced by a being we call God.
Or humans inherently do whatever increases their chance of survival, and have commentators declare it good or evil after the fact
I actually have no problems with this.
>>415247
It's actually about fitness, not necessarily improvement. Fitness is more closely tied to survival than improvement, if you need to msk a distinction between the two. Talking about improvements in evolutionary processes is misleading.
>>413602
so most of them
>>415470
Are you saying Hitler was not a hero of his time to begin with? Are you saying he did not do everything he could to save Germany, and was praised as such for several years, with genuine happiness of all the German people? Are you saying Hitler is some sort of demon that isn't human like us and is super evil?
>>415247
No, gradual improvement is required for survival.
Slavery is shit tier in modern economics. It's cheaper to run a tractor than it is to feed slaves. Get with the times anon.
>>415247
>I do not understand biological evolution: the post.
Stephen Jay Gould on Darwinian evolution:
>"First, Darwin argues that evolution has no purpose. Individuals struggle to increase the representation of their genes in future generation, and that is all. If the world displays any harmony and order, it arises only as an incidental result of individuals seeking their own advantage - the economy of Adam Smith applied to nature."
>"Second, Darwin maintained that evolution has no direction; it does not lead inevitably to higher being. Organisms become better adapted to their local environments, and that is all. The 'degeneracy' of a parasite is as perfect as the gait of a gazelle."
>if it was just about survival we could just stay single-celled plants
Look up Red Queen hypothesis
>>415299
What is considered good is whatever is in Isaac Asiimov's writing, so bend over.
>>412854
Plebcore is relative, faggot.
Also you might as well post:
>Rousseau
>Hobbes
>Nietzsche
Because that's all you're doing.
And Nietzsche is god tier, Hobbes and Rousseau are baby tier.
>>415562
But what is good for survival is what humans generally perceive as good: The sustenance of society and an economy so that humans can at one point escape form earth. If everybody was an egoist we would all die 3.5 billion years from now when our neighbor galaxy yolo rams the milky way.
>>416343
>But what is good for some individual/group's survival is what that individual/that group of human(s) generally perceive as good
fify
>>416357
But that's wrong. What the Individual generally perceives as good won't help them survive.
>>416364
Welcome to Nietzsche
Every debate about every subject like this is resolved by reading Nietzsche
>>416364
>What the Individual generally perceives as good won't help them survive
In that case, group survival overrides individual survival
>>412854
Then how do you explain psychopaths?
You can't paint all of humanity with the same brush. Some people are born good, others evil, others neutral. Some people are born good and become evil; some people are born evil and become good. And there's tons of grey all around.
>>413554
know how and when to sage, redditor
>>412854
>forces them too
not really, there are tons of people that are bad despite knowing that it's bad
>sinful creatures
>inherently good
Top kek.
Christianity is right precisely because it shows how evil we can be.
