It's often understood that in most cultures and civilizations, even very socially repressive ones, hereditary elites and administrative classes could historically get away with being at least semi-openly /lgbt/
Does anyone want to discuss how /lgbt/ people among non-elite classes fared? Surely not all of them suffered legal punishments even if social ostracization was likely.
>>408010
The concept of /lgbt/ didn't exist
>>408021
However, the idea of homosexuality has been known to everyone for centuries. Social attitudes have varied though.
Historically speaking is acceptance of gay behavior a good thing for society?
>>408022
>mention homosexuality
>OMG YOU IDENTITY POLITIC LEFTIST SJW!!!112 GET OUT OF MY BOARD
>>408031
You're going to be very precise with what you mean by "good".
I can imagine it's overall fairly good since it creates a liberal and open political landscape, the kind where science and culture flourish. But I don't have research supporting it.
>>408042
>le shoved down my throat meme
I'm disappointed, I thought this board was better than that
>>408048
The industrial revolution and the enlightenment occurred in an age that was deeply repressive of homosexuality.
>>408010
They engaged in same-sex activities, they weren't /lgbt/, which is a destructive anti-family movement.
>>408067
>They engaged in same-sex activities, they weren't /lgbt/
That's literally that which defines the l, g, and b parts.
>>408086
Those are identities, not mere activities.
>>408067
>destructive anti family movement
>people believe this
>>408051
Oh no, we wouldn't want to disappoint tumblr, now would we!
>>408051
Well, it is. Be disappointed in different opinions you encounter on the internet.
Tell me how studying the history of gays holds any significance other than an /lgbt/ circle jerk.
>>408096
>parading and normalizing fruitless partnerships
Try that "LGBT-friendly" shit in Sparta or Athens and see where it lands you.
>>408104
That it's clearly confirmation bias and a double standard seems to evade you, friendo
>L
fine
>B
autistic, but OK
>G
keep your dick away from me, but whatever
>T
MENTALLY ILL FREAK, GET THE FUCK OUT
>>408093
Exclusively engaging in same-sex activities makes you gay or lesbian, while doing so non-exclusively makes you bi. This isn't some part of a larger identity, it's what those words mean.
>>408106
Believe it or not there exists many better ways to help the workd and achieve fulfillment than adding a few offspring
>>408106
Did you forget that virile, masculine Spartan warriors were more or less socially expected to have temporary boyfriends while they were out fighting?
>>408118
That's a bit off topic, but thanks for sharing your autistic outburst.
>>408129
Killing yourself would be one of those ways, faggot.
>>408136
Nice to see civility on this board
in Greece male on male relationships were common, however it was dishonorable to be a bottom and outright taboo to like being a bottom or solely engage is male on male relationships as a bottom. Tops were respected as powerful.
>>408139
Just a friendly word of adive, m8. Jump off a bridge and you've contributed to making the world a better place.
>>408124
You're imposing modern concepts and identities on them while pretending to carry on their legacy in an attempt to appeal to our reverence for the ancients.
>>408129
I'm aware of your hedonistic tendencies.
>>408133
Spartans were obliged to get married and produce healthy offspring. This is exactly the problem with LGBT propaganda.
>>408141
being in a parade and being a productive member of society aren't mutually exclusive and you fail basic logic if you can't figure out why
>>408010
>http://gendertree.com/SalZikrum.htm
Lesbians were recognized by the Code of Hammurabi. They were allowed to own property and take wives.
>>408162
The are 7 billion people in the world. We don't need more
faggots are inherently self destructive
They are only kept alive today by a coddling society
>>408105
Quite a few prominent historical figures were gay or bisexual. I'm not sure why you wouldn't think that's pertinent historical and biographical information.
>>408172
>The are 7 billion people in the world
Oh my fucking god what a pathetic argument, not even worth an actual reply
>>408172
Collapsing population pyramids will become a huge problem unless productivity and technology save us.
>>408162
Not everybody needs to reproduce, especially not people who have sex with people of their own gender, potentially ruining the life of a good spouse too.
>>408179
Since you think the main problem with gay people is that they don't reproduce, it's actually perfectly valid, as it directly attacks your implicit premise that reproduction is inherently desirable.
>>408187
I personally am only concerned with its promotion.
>>408162
>You're imposing modern concepts and identities on them while pretending to carry on their legacy in an attempt to appeal to our reverence for the ancients
Nice armchair psychology, but I just tried to educate you on the meanings of the words you use.
>>408166
They are not. In contrast, focusing your self image on sexual preferences and loudly demanding that people tolerate them does not seem to be productive at all.
>>408177
There were, but not many. Nitpicking one small aspect is no way to contribute to a historical study.
>>408201
You sound like fun at parties.
>>408192
>globalizing demographics
Good luck with that
>>408196
Do you think genuinely straight people, like you certainly are, can be made gay by the promotion of gayness?
>>408177
>WE WUZ KINGZ N KWEENZ
And here I thought only niggers did this
>>408208
Literally everyone does this. People romanticize their heritage as dindunuffin kings and queens.
>>408025
> the idea of homosexuality has been known to everyone
No, not really, homosexuality (attraction to same sex) is a very recent concept.
What was known was sodomy, regardless of whether you were attracted to the guy you were fucking or just humiliating him.
>>408201
This misrepresentation is used to sell the idea that the ancients were ok with EXCLUSIVE non-conventional partnerships, as in a modern gay couple.
>>408031
Bad. Sexual immorality -> People not having children -> Population collapse.
>>408214
>What do you even mean by that?
"It's not a problem that Japan has abysmal rates because Nigerians have 20 kids"
>>408214
>it isn't about having fun, we're here for a serious discussion of fags throughout history
Surely you're kidding.
>>408208
There were plenty of gay soldiers, slaves, and peasant farmers whose names aren't remembered by history as well
>>408224
No one said they were gay, they were bisexual, and in greater numbers than in any modern society. Which is part of lgbt, so you have no point.
>>408242
Thats because nobody gives to shits about them.
>>408228
Name one society that has collapsed because of sexual immorality.
>>408208
Not that guy but the percentage of homos in society is pretty much constant throughout history, it's just that when homos aren't tolerated they tend to pretend they're not gay.
It's different than someone claiming a history figure was a nigger, since being a nigger is something you can't just hide from people around you.
>>408234
But that's true, why would I care more about Japan than about Nigeria?
>>408250
Both continental and insular Celts. Or better said, they didn't collapse because of it, but it weakened them enough for foreigners to come and conquer them.
>>408264
This sounds interesting, can you demonstrate the causal role of their sexual practices in their downfall?
>>408260
Japan is the third largest economy in the world, without workers they will collapse and drag the rest of us down.
>>408250
Not that anon, but Germany kindof was, and Japan very likey might.
>>408244
You just can't admit that you're trying to usurp their occasional buttfucking to promote the contemporary LGBT community and its ideas. Look at the OP, for fuck's sake.
They weren't bisexuals, they were "bicurious misogynistic pedophiles with fascisto-heteronormative notions of family".
>>408277
Cvckoldry. I don't mean it as a 4chan meme, but actual cvckoldry, Celtic women were promiscuous and having sex foreigners like mad. Many Celtic men either went full beta, or started liking men which in turn led them to not give a fuck about protecting their folk. Basically the society got very feminized and thus weakened.
It's all well documented by the Romans, you could argue whether it was an accurate account or deliberate slander, but this is how historical Celts are described.
>>408279
Guess they should open their borders to foreign labor, then. And by should, I mean will.
I mean, what's your plan, save Japan by being mean to japanese gay people?
>>408309
>if we aren't cuddled by the media/society you're being mean
We just shouldn't celebrate your poor performance
>>408260
You said "we don't need any more people on earth", but some nations DO need to have more children. Whether you personally care about the welfare of the Japanese, or the Nigerians for that matter, was never the question and is besides the point.
>>408302
1. Source on that.
2. Afaik celts were conquered with the sword, not the BRC
>>408309
What I'm saying is reproduction is essential to the continuing success of a nation.
>And by should, I mean will.
You have any proof for that claim.
>>408327
das nazism
>Discussing an irrelevant population
There are more fucking Brazilians than there are fags, why don't we talk about them?
>>408301
If you fuck both women and boys, you're bisexual according to every definition of the term bisexual that has ever existed. Bisexual is not a political position, it is a sexual preference.
>>408335
Why not? I'd love to see a brazilian history thread!
I would have nothing to add, its more something I'd enjoy learning about.
>>408335
They're relevant as long as kids are forced to write essays about why gays are so great
>>408335
Brazilians have only existed since the founding of Brazil.
People who have sex with the same sex have existed since humanity was first a species.
>>408329
1. Tacitus
2. because their society was weakened by feminization
>>408340
>Bisexual is not a political position, it is a sexual preference.
Sorry, this is an LGBT thread. Such simplistic and bigoted definitions won't fly.
>>408315
Ok, first of all, I'm neither gay nor japanese.
Second, so, you want to save Japan by what, stopping the media from being too nice to gay people, and you do not considerer this mean? If I told someone who has been nice to you that he should stop that, that would certainly be mean. If you hadn't already proven yourself to someone people shouldn't be nice to, that is, given your mean attitude.
>>408309
Opening the borders is undesirable as it leads to more problems than the alternative, i.e. Japanese people making more babies. Being ethnically homogenous as the Japanese are is an asset. Ethnic diversity of communities increases crime rates, hurts civic life, and so on.
>>408350
Gay does not automatically equal unmasculine. The world is not without tough hypermasculine gay men who can kick ass in a fight or that you would be physically intimidated by.
>>408323
Instead of trying to talk people into reproducing, which definitely isn't how things are supposed to work, these nations could also open their borders until they're back on replacement levels.
>>408373
and anime tiddies
>>408331
>You have any proof for that claim
Common, sense, before they collapse, they'll open their borders, so they don't collapse. Maybe I'm underestimating the japanese tendency for sudoku, though.
>>408372
You guys think too much in terms of either-or. Japan and other countries SHOULD do everything they can do increase their domestic rates because homogeneity and self-sufficiency is preferable to the alternatives. Mass immigration should be last resort, but not out of the question. But once they start approaching 15-25% foreigners, shit will hit the fan, as it does in Europe now.
>>408010
>could historically get away with being at least semi-openly /lgbt/
No. They couldn't.
"LGBT" is a conception developed very late before the 25 year rule by politically active lesbians. It is anachronistic when applied to past human sexual practices.
This is EXACTLY the same kind of whiggish anachronistic shit and the rest of >>>/pol/ tries to pull on /his/. Fuck off back to your friends on /pol/
>>408350
>tacitus
Eh, dramatized accounts of foreign peoples, that were used as good and bad moral examples for romans, that was his entire shtick really. The romans conquered way too quickly to have been able to weaken the celts by fucking their wives and then waiting for it to weaken their morale, this whole story is pretty silly desu.
>>408368
Interesting how homophobia goes so amazingly well with racism. Now putting all this aside, do you really believe that gay acceptance has played any sgnificant part in japanese demographics? Because this guy here >>408373
tells a more plausible story.
>>408357
I know I come off as a gay lyncher but I really don't care beyond its promotion, just like I'd be offended by the promotion Bachelorhood and Single Parenthood without necessarily wanting to hunt them down. LGBT, in itself without any extraordinary promotion, isn't even close to the core problem. I also like trap porn.
>>408407
Your threshold for "acceptance" is interesting.
>>408031
It works itself out. If homosexuality is a genetic thing, homosexuals coming out the closet and not breeding will reduce its prevalence. If it isn't, it's simply part of human culture.
Practically speaking, buttfucking is a disease vector. But then again so is regular fucking.
>>408416
Well I've asked that before, do you think that a genuinely straight person can become gay by sufficient promotion?
Also
>I also like trap porn.
isn't being homophobic while having gay tendencies a meme at this point?
>>408407
>muh racism buzzword boogeyman
Studies conducted by liberal Harvard professors demonstrate ethnic diversity is detrimental to the civic health of a community
I for one don't claim that gay acceptance plays part in the japanese demographic problem, because the japs don't accept gays to begin with. Which is a good thing as the last thing they need is a political movement advocating for normalisation of another hedonistic lifestyle and shunning the traditional family.
>>408425
I don't even really know what my threshold for acceptance is, but I guess it's something along the lines of "treating them as perfectly normal people who are doing nothing wrong" unless they are actually doing something wrong.
>>408416
That last sentence is the equivalent of saying you're not racist against black people because you once said a few words to an African exchange student
>>408433
Fuck off back to >>>/tumblr/ if you want to shame people into accepting your faggotry by calling them "homophobic." Nobody here gives a shit if your special snowflake feelings are hurt.
>>408433
When there are examples of kids being pushed into transgender crap before even hitting puberty, then yes I do think it has some influence (not significant in terms of demographics of course). I find it strange that nothing but deviant sexuality seems to be inherited in this world.
>isn't being homophobic while having gay tendencies a meme at this point?
Phobia is just what you tell yourself to sleep at night
>>408449
Fags aren't normal, they are defective freaks of nature. Thus they should be treated as such: We should research ways to treat and fix their condition, not shrug and accept it.
>>408444
>Studies conducted by liberal Harvard professors demonstrate ethnic diversity is detrimental to the civic health of a community
Be that as it may, I doubt that policies that enforce ethnic homogenity would have a better effect.
>the last thing they need is a political movement advocating for normalisation of another hedonistic lifestyle and shunning the traditional family.
I sincerely doubt it could do any significant additional damage.
>>408476
With the right treatment, they too can become fully contributing members of equal worth. Their potential shouldn't go wasted due to their deficiencies.
>>408464
People who are literally scared of too much gayness destroying society are the most appropriate target for the term homphobia I can imagine.
>>408470
>think of the children
The children are fine, mostly. I'm more worried about their constant access to the internet, which may provide them with content that is infinitely worse than telling them that being trans is okay. Which it is, in my book.
>>408476
Last time I looked, we were living in a society that doesn't make people's right to live as they see fit on wether or not some anon considered them normal enough for not wanting to fix tjem. I actually like it that way, we should fix people who are a danger to others and leabe the rest be. Weird notion, I know.
>>408342
>They're relevant as long as kids are forced to write essays about why gays are so great
You're referring to middle school and highschool right, because I haven't seen any sign of this.
If it's college, well, who cares what people in "those" classes are doing?
Maddie, go back to /pol/ you ugly man dyke.
>>408495
It doesn't, but you can feed your mental delusions.
>>408801
Fuck off back to your hugbox you degenerate faggot
>>408902
LOOK MOM I DID IT AGAIN >:^)
>>408407
>homophobia goes so amazingly well with racism
Fuck off back to tumblr.
I'm gay and immigrants are homophobic and shit
>>408345
People who have sex with the same sex aren't the same thing as fags. Fags are a made up sexual identity that was created as a political stance by cultural marxists. People having sex with the same sex has existed in many cultures but it was mostly just wanting to get yo dick wet.
>>408407
Fuck off faggot, back to tumblr
>>409451
Having sex with the same sex exists and historically has existed under a few definitions
/his/ is not /pol/. What's with the damned teenage homophobes in this thread?
>>408168
In Nuer society, which is patrilineal, barren women are considered men and free to take wives. Fertile women are basically "loaned" so other men of other families can continue their lines, but women, assuming they live long enough, will later take the social roles of fathers and continue their own lines.
