When will atheism overtake christianity? Do you think we'll live to see the day that atheists outnumber the religious?
>>383882
>Do you think we'll live to see the day that atheists outnumber the religious?
If you live in a civilized, developed country: yes.
If you live in Africa: No
>>383882
*tips fedora*
>>383896
>that insecurity
50-100 years.
Although I think atheism is only a trasionary phase. There's very good reason to think humans are hard-coded to seek spiritualism. Maybe the legacy of the growing secular movement will be to rescue spiritualism from religion and superstition.
>>383882
Probably desu. It kind of worries me how high tensions might get in the intermediate period though.
>>383913
Being atheist doesn't mean you can't be spiritual.
It means you don't believe in god. Spiritualism is not synonymous with god.
>>383913
When people talk about a spiritual “experience” they point to the combined sensation of awe, inner peace, and enlightenment, which culminates in a reverence for life and nature, and a sincere self-reflection about these things and oneself. I live a spiritual life, because I live a self-examined life of the mind, I care deeply about my beliefs, I care more about my ideals and human happiness than about material things, and I experience awe, inner peace, and enlightenment when I fathom human minds and the natural world.
Meditation as a secular path to spiritual enlightenment is perhaps unequaled, and ought to be mastered by all. It does have beneficial effects on health and self-understanding. But the most common path to godless spirituality is through an appreciation of science: by truly taking in the awe of nature and her complexity, many a scientist has had a spiritual awakening that had nothing to do with God, but everything to do with profound reverence and amazement in the face of tremendous beauty, fearsome power, and the unimaginable depth and complexity of space and time. It sparks the realization of how tiny and insignificant we are, yet how wonderful we are despite this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w2M50_Xdk
See the Nordic countries, where people are 66% are, strictly speaking, atheist
>>384562
I messed that one up... 66% of people are atheist.
In any country that has a decent education system, yes.
>>383882
>Implying everyone won't be Muslim
>spirituality without religion
Can someone explain this to me? What does that look like?
>>384619
Spirituality can mean either mean the deep thinking and self searching that gets you up in the morning or some magically crystal hippy bullshit.
>>384634
See, but deep thinking and self-searching fall undo philosophy, while magical crystal hippy bullshit is just nonsense mysticism.
>>384660
>undo
*under
>>384660
You don't need to read the books of a bunch of dead people to search for soul searching. I'm pretty dismissive of philosophy at times but I doubt even philosophy enthusiasts would qualify that as philosophy. What do philosophy enthusiasts have if not their beloved books?
>>384677
Philosophy isn't just about reading books. You can do philosophy yourself without having read a single philosophical work. All it requires is a brain.
>>384619
At it's core spiritualism is a feeling that there is something greater in the world than their literal form. Essentially the spirit world and the 'real' world are supposed to be inseperatly linked, to the point where they are actually the same thing.
For instance a statue is to the spiritually dead just stone that's been chiseled and painted, to the spirtual it represents something. Thus to be spiritual you need to see everything in the world as having a "greater" meaning. This general has to fall back on some sort of philosophy. Hegel's concept of the World-spirit is an example so is Nietzsche's Zarathustra book.
As Jung points out though man needs symbols for his spiritualism which leads to rituals and metaphorical imagery.
Another point. Why is there so much fucking occultism and new age crap everywhere? Because people are spiritually starving. Not just the atheist but a lot of the Christians too, the old ideas don't sate them anymore. The world actually has a huge spiritual crisis right now.
>>384619
white girls who like incense and wind chimes.
>>384742
Ok, but I'm not sure Nietzsche is a good example of any sort of spirituality since he was very much against the idea of "the true world" and meaning coming from somewhere other than immediate reality.
>>383882
No, religion evolves with humanity.
Also not following any religion doesn't equate to atheism. We live in a society that runs 24/7, the working class has to adapt to whatever hours employers need them so people don't find the time to go to church and gradually fall away because they're not part of the community anymore.
I find a lot of people who strongly associate with being atheist always insist that humanity will gradually become atheist. It's no different than the Islamist who truly believes everyone will come to Islam. It's unbased fanciful thinking.
>>384780
>I find a lot of people who strongly associate with being atheist always insist that humanity will gradually become atheist. It's no different than the Islamist who truly believes everyone will come to Islam. It's unbased fanciful thinking.
The difference is that we can actually observe a trend of atheism rapidly growing.
>>384779
This is true. However you need to realize there are multiple ways to interpret the inspiration of the spirit and real world.
The way everyone is familiar is what Nietzsche directly attacks in Twilight of the Idols. The two worlds are separate. Heaven is not on earth, neither are angels or anything spiritual. It's in a distinctly separate world. Platoism and Christianity are examples. It's ultimatly a type of spirtual cancer, "divine" is how the subconscious marks things that are importaint. If nothing 'real' is divine than the religion is nihilistic. This is why Nietzsche called Christianity a nihilistic religion.
On the opposite end is pantheism where the spirit world and the 'real world' are actually the same thing. Alternatively the spirits physically live on earth.
Between that there is a host of concepts like panentheism, where the spirit world and the real world are inseparably linked. The spirit is like a thread that weaves everything together. You could easily interpret Nietzsche's own philosophy to be this when he says that everything in the universe is just an expression of the Will to Power. Hegel's World Spirit also fits.
Panentheism and Pantheism are ultimately the only healthy types of spiritualism, everything else separates man too much from the divine, which is to say it separates him from meaning. Spiritually dead atheists would be part of this degeneracy. Simply people have an emotional need for this stuff, there's good reason to think we are even programmed for it (religion as an evolutionary advantage, Jung's collective unconscious theory, etc) and no amount of Vulcan rationalizing is going to get rid of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
There's also a path for Panetheism within Orthodoxy and Kabbalisitic Judaism.
>>384879
The other interpretation of the will to power, and the one I believe to be more correct, is that it is a psychological force, not a metaphysical sort of anything.
>>383927
>But the most common path to godless spirituality is through an appreciation of science: by truly taking in the awe of nature and her complexity
Yeah, that's because someone smart designed it dumbfuck
>>384963
Who designed the designer?
>>384879
Interesting, thank you
>>383882
>When will atheism overtake christianity?
when we get another fascist/socialist movement that persecutes christians
>>384612
This desu
>>388811
cannot wait
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/global-study-atheists-decline-only-18-world-population-2020
Thank God Atheism is self defeating. Nobody will mate with the arrogant faggots.
Also, they are all scietnifically illiterate.
Reading pop-science doesn't make you smart retards.
Also, Dawkins is literally a meme scientists who only has about 10 papers on bumble bee digging patterns to his name.
You guys are fucking morons. I take that back. You guys are just morons because nobody is fucking you guys. 1.8% baby. Can't wait.
>>390868
>literally a meme scientist
gr8 b8
you can thank atheism that 'god' is self-defeating
>>390868
i fuck and come in my girlfriend all the time. also most every one i know is an atheist and they almost universally have seemingly healthy sex lives. i find it troubling that you are so bitter and concerned about other people's fucking habits. must be that you are a sad, pathetic person! lol!
>>390912
see the articel
>>390868
For a science fag you sure are retarded about it.
Your fitness is 0. Your population is dying out. The Catholics aren't. And by the way...they are actually nice people.
>>390910
He's a "meme scientist" because he coined the term 'meme.'
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from this video. Am I supposed to hate her because she looks like a girl gamer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Tp4ENcSvFc
>>390868
Why is that Chrsitfags always look at the world population instead of the population of their own country?
Yes Christianity is raising: in Africa and China.
However if you are part of North America or Europe it's dropping at a rate of 1-3% per year and trends show the rate is only rising. The atheists do not even need to have children for this to happen, all the new atheists are former Christians.
>>390955
>only europeans matter
>only young people matter
You're a little racist faggot aren't you?
>>390947
No literally look up his bibliography. He's a bumble bee scientist turned book writer. He has about 10 papers. So does Sam Harris, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, and other meme faggots.
The video is some dumb bitch who is a 'science communicator' like those faggots. All equally as retarded at science.
>>390868
At least we can all be happy about this http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/finally-more-young-americans-accept-evolution-over-creationism
>>390934
i am not sure why i should care whether my position is popular or not. truth is not a democratic process after all. as well, not having babies does not mean not fucking.
not to say that that particular article is incorrect, but that is a shit source, family.
>>390967
1. His point was that the expansion of religiosity isn't happening in a setting where it would matter to you. It's radical islam in north africa, or mormon missionary work.
In fact, the kind of religions that are growing are more likely to produce the kind of believers that will cukc you by 2020.
2. I can tell you are really mad at your friends who follow the "I Love Science" facebook page.
>>390967
>You're a little racist faggot aren't you?
I think you are missing his point. Everywhere in the dveloped world people aren't having that many children. It is poor people in the undeveloped world that are a) more religious and b) having lots of children.
>He's a bumble bee scientist
This is just pure philistinism. Studying insects is a very worthwhile scientific pursuit. A scientist writing a paper on bees is nothing that anyone who isn't a complete idiot would attack them for, they are a fascinating species and a vital part of the ecosystem.
>>390967
Ever read the selfish gene and extended phenotype?
>>390967
3. Science is done incrementally. The amount of specialization it takes to discover something new in biology essentially guarantees that one's discovery will seem myopic to 13-year olds like you.
>>390975
yeah because someone's belief about what happened 6,000-4.5 billion years ago really matters at all.
>>390991
lol I dont have friends that like that nor do i know what it is. I just know the type of faggots you guys are. "OMG WE CURED AIDS AGAIN SWEET' "OMG NO MORE DRILLS AT THE DENTIST" " TESLA LOL SWEET"
You clowns act superior to religious people but you are just as stupid and most of you shit heads have no training in science nor does it have any meaning or use when discussing philosophy.
>>390998
Sounds to me like if we killed atheism the west would have kids again desu senpai.
And Studying insects is worthwhile sure. Don't disagree. But doesn't make you an expert on religion or philosophy, or well anything other than insects.
>>391002
No but I have a degree in biology and I'm well aware that that book is considered to have no valid use other than to 'communicate' concepts that were discovered by other people. Also fuck off. You havn't read that shit either. Why would you? Its out of date anyway.
>>391004
Whatever the fuck that means.
Here's a treat for you:
>Tyson told Sagan he expected to get his Ph.D. in two months from the University of Texas but Tyson was either lying or mistaken. Tyson failed to get a Ph.D. at the University of Texas and his dissertation committee was dissolved, essentially flunking him out.
>We will turn to Tyson’s failed attempt to get a Ph.D. later but for now we have to ask why was Tyson misleading Sagan in the 1986 letter? It’s hard to believe that Tyson was caught unaware about not being able to get his Ph.D. in two months.
>Sagan didn’t reply until February 1987 and then only to forward on Tyson’s materials to an agent.
>Tyson, in turn, in a subsequent letter, admits he published with Columbia University Press but left out that he was forced out at the University of Texas.
>>391056
>yeah because someone's belief about what happened 6,000-4.5 billion years ago really matters at all.
So delusions are just as valid as reality, i'll have to remember that for the next time someone tells me the earth isn't the centre of the universe
>Also fuck off. You havn't read that shit either
I'm an ecologist, how about you fuck off, I actually have a copy of selfish gene that I bought before Dawkins became a meme
>>391056
>Sounds to me like if we killed atheism the west would have kids again desu senpai.
That's because you're stupid.
If we became poor and uneducated again we would have more children.
>>391056
You are well within the autism spectrum, my friend. look at you just rage away on the internet.
Pop science irritates me too - mostly I'm bothered by media sources taking small scientific discovers out of context and sensationalizing them.
In the end, I don't think it matters to many atheists what the trends of religiosity are. I have no optimism for the human race.
>>391070
lol why would you own it and flaunt it online? I don't believe you teebeeh. Link some papers you did bro. Otherwise you are probably some undergraduate.
>>391072
>only stupid people have children
K dude.
>>391076
>implying i'm raging and not laughing at you chuckle heads and your arrogance.
I don't have any optimism either. Pretty much sure we are witnessing the slow fall of rome. Though unlike you i blame atheism and liberalism.
but thats not to discuss on /his/.
Right now we are discussing meme science.
Also:
>>391070
first off you couldn't rpove the Solar system is heliocentric anyway you just take it on faith.
Second: you are just as pigheaded as the geo-centrists were towards copernicus. You hate and mock anyone who's view fall outside of scientific consensus.
>>391056
It sounds like your whole arguement is based around finding people who are promoters and trying to insult them.
Even if all 4 of the atheist horse men, da grass man, and Carl Sagan were found to be complete frauds who's entire careers were based on fake research it wouldn't put a single dent in the rise of atheism. I'm probably twice your age so I'll tell you this. Atheism was rising before it had any celebrities. Even before Richard Dawkins wrote the God delusion Christianity was losing numbers every year. In fact this has been going on for decades but it really picked up in the 80s.
In short you can kick and scream all you want but your mother isn't going to come and stop it.
As for the point about children. In general atheists tend to have higher income levels and Christians tend to have lower ones. So the amount of children they have has nothing to do with their religion. Higher income people are well known to have fewer children. This has been the case for years but atheism has been rising North America and Europe in spite of it. It's just wishful thinking to beleive that suddenly there will be no more atheists because of birth rates. Most of the younger atheists come from Christian households. Children are not going to always accept the religion of their parents. I've known so many young kids that came from super religious households than they learn really basic science facts in school and start to question their religion because they learn everything happens by natural ways.
> Link some papers you did bro
Its not like the point of 4chan in anonymity
Fair enough though I was simplifying, I'm working on publishing a paper currently, and I'm starting a PhD next year
It's not like he existed before publishing the god delusion right? Probably the back and forward with Stephen Jay Gould would have been the highest profile aspect.
>pic related
>>391105
Romans never had so much fun as when Rome started to fall. Liberalism and Atheism are the rewards we get to reap. Stop raging at anons on the internet and go be a little hedonist.
>>391105
>only stupid people have children
You really are an imbecile if you thought that was what I wrote.
>>391112
Sagan is legit high tier scientist. I wouldn't insult him.
I just think its hilarious that so many youth are being duped by sophists. None of their arguments are good.
>>391127
Thought so. I finish my doctorate next may. (i'm not lying like NDT did to sagan =^]). You'll join us on the other side of doing more real science where you get annoyed that these guys are heralded as smart when you are already 1/10 the scientist they are and you havent even started your phd.
>>391133
no
>>391139
>only poor and uneducated people have children
k dude. btw you are probably poor and uneducated if i had to guess.
>>391171
ok more pakistani sluts for me. enjoy slave mentality.
>>391177
lol im married. I get laid all the time.
I'd rather not live such a superficial existence like you clowns even if my religion is wrong desu.
Atheism is all about justifying a masturbatory and slefish lifestyle. Pretty degenerate.
You'll understand one day.
>>391127
also what school did you choose to the phd?
>>391199
>also what school did you choose to the phd?
I'm Australian and Urban Ecology
>>391171
>only poor and uneducated people have children
So essentially you can't distinguish between the concepts of more or less and none or some and think they mean exactly the same thing.
No wonder you believe in fairies.
>>391199
I remember when I was christian and I remember when I was married. my ex kinda looked like christ-chan
try out the pakistani babes some time, don't let your wife find out.
>>391227
rofl why pakis?
Aryan qts only.
Go get your ex-wife back and have a family dude. Way better than drinking and having sex with pakis.
>>391222
You are just insinuating that poor people and uneducated peopel don't matter.
Education seems to make people think that Richard Dawkins disproved god so its clearly not correlating with intelligence.
>>391171
Atheism is not caused by the orators. If Dawkins and the other promoters never existed Christianity would still be dropping, just at a slower rate. The only reason Dawkins book is successful is because there is an audience for it, that is there were already millions of Christians or Muslims who were on the edge and just needed a tiny bit more of a push before they completely dropped it. Dawkins and Harris are not the one's guiding atheism they are just flag-bearers.
The actual reason for secularism goes back hundreds of years. More and more of the world was being explained by natural methods and so God started playing a less active part in people's view of the world. When Darwin came on the scene God was completly removed from the entire history of earth.
At the same time whenever God would leave the scene something would need to replace God. So we got humanism in the Renaissance: we went from a God to a Man centered universe. This lead to a lot of Enlightenment thinkers introducing new philosophy to replace the out-dated God-centered philosophy. We also started getting the idea that the old religious people were superstitious. From Spinoza onward thinking depended less on God. By the time we got to Hume tradtional religion had completely left philosophy.
>>391241
>You are just insinuating that poor people and uneducated peopel don't matter.
Don't you get tired of humiliating yourself with bizarre strawman arguments?
>>391241
I'm telling you, buddy, I've tried both. If you really want to know why atheists' population MAY decline - even though I doubt that fact...
(I followed your link earlier [CNS news wtf is that?] and their link to the study was broken - who would have guessed?)
... it's because kids are a hassle. So every time a screaming kid wakes you up in the middle of the night, think of me sleeping soundly with a different paki babe each time.
Now I have to go get my sheets from the dryer so I can go to bed.
>>391272
>>391263
> In 2010, censuses and surveys indicate, there were about 1.1 billion atheists, agnostics and people who do not identify with any particular religion. By 2050, the unaffiliated population is expected to exceed 1.2 billion.
Source: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
What's going to happen in the west when half the people are muslim and the other half atheist?
This can't end well.
>>391361
Islam isn't going to be that big in the West. It's mostly only growing in places like Africa (so is Christianity, it's just because of the high birth rate there)
>>391291
In reference to agnostics, the data show they constituted 14.7% of the world’s population in 1970 but declined to 9.8% of the population in 2010; they are projected to fall further by 2020, to make up 8.9% of the population. (See ChristianityinitsGlobalContext(1).pdf)
“From the point of view of 1970-2010, there has been a global religious resurgence, and it seems likely to continue into the future,” reports the study.
Commenting on the study, Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, said that much of the decrease for atheists “is attributable to the demise of that atheistic genocidal wonderland called Communism: the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 led to a spike in religious affiliation, both in Russia and in Eastern Europe,” as the study documents, and “China is also in the throes of a religious revival.”
“Two religions, Christianity and Islam, dominate religious demographics and seem poised to continue that dominance in the future,” reads the study. “In 1970 those two religions represented 48.8% of the global population, and by 2020 they will likely represent 57.2%.”
God damn you guys are pathetic. Just use google. It takes 3 seconds. Seriusly you guys are pathetic.
All the science and liberalism in the world existed in eastern europe and now they are all turning to religion.
Its because there is no intelligent reason to be an atheist due to science.
>>391291
later dude. good luck with the research. Youll have some fun. See you at church with your kids one day man. We're waiting.
>>383905
>shitty meme
>using the scientific method to discuss spiritual and theological matters
bad meme todd
>>391375
You might want to look at that thing again.
Worldwide religion is rising. In Europe in it's sinking. Do you know what biggest growth of religion is in Europe? Immigrants! Only when you import the scientifically illiterate 3rd worlders can you get the religion back but in a generation or two these people too will drop their faith.
DEUS VULT
>>391378
oh god, why do they draw her so creepy looking?
>>391427
>French scholars say, evangelicalism is likely the fastest-growing religion in France – defying all stereotypes about Europe’s most secular nation...
>On March 17, 2014, the news website Deutsche Well reported that evangelical Christianity has doubled in Germany in the last 10 years.
This is likely due to eastern germany and former communists states coming home to christianity.
>Muslim birthrates are plunging both in Europe and the Muslim world. Already, Iran, Tunisia, Turkey, Azerbaijan and several other Muslim countries have replacement-level fertility or below. In the UK, Bangladeshi and Pakistani fertility has halved in a generation and is now under 3 children per woman. This means their long-term growth will begin to tail off. The other part of the equation is the rise of non-Muslim immigrant groups (African and West Indian Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and other Eastern faiths) who are also increasing and therefore making Europe more plural and, in the process, rendering it harder for Muslims to increase their share of the population.
That said, Muslim membership retention and in-group marriage is exceptionally high (over 90 per cent) and they are a much younger population than the host society. So they are on course for steady growth. My colleagues and I expect their fertility to fall to host levels by 2030, but they will still make up 5-15 per cent of most West European countries by 2050 and 10-25 per cent by 2100. This is a major change from the 2-6 per cent levels of today
Scary desu senpai. 1/10 is a really high number.
>>383913
>Although I think atheism is only a trasionary phase.
>There's very good reason to think humans are hard-coded to seek spiritualism.
Spiritualism is not necessarily incompatible with atheism, even if the most prominent atheists today are metaphysical materialists. Although just for the record: how do you explain the existence of atheist materialists at all if we're "hard-coded" for spiritualism? What would being "hard-coded" actually mean, biologically, and why couldn't it change with evolution or be repressed from phenotypic expression, or just not present in some individuals? There are supposedly genetic correlates with political and religious beliefs but these are questions that need answering before we can make educated guesses.
>>390934
God bless you.
>>391461
>French scholars say, evangelicalism is likely the fastest-growing religion in France – defying all stereotypes about Europe’s most secular natio
I did a quick search on this quote. First resulst are.
*Christian Science website
*Conservapedia
*An anti-evolution website
Could you have picked a more biased and less respectable source?
>>391105
This image is some creepy Purge shit. I really question the intellect of people who act like everyone in the 1950s went around dressed like they were in Citizen Kane.
>>391475
>French scholars say
>scholars say
Those nameless experts strike again!
>>390934
>Your population is dying out. The Catholics aren't
Yes, because kids in Catholic families never grow up to be non-religious. Kek.
>>390868
Dawkins is a legit scientist, just a shitty philosopher.
What type of Christians are forming in Africa? Isn't it mostly Mormons and Catholics?
>>391528
Anglicans i believe. But its a really weird flavor. Not orthodox at all (lower case). Weird like spirit voodoo twist on it.
>>391543
Source?
>>391412
>Thinks religion somehow gets a pass on having to adhere to logical inquiry because 'muh feelings tho'
If it can't hold up to people asking questions, then what's the point of defending it? What makes religion such a special snowflake?
>>391481
What were they dressed like?
>>392156
It's a hold over attitude from back when no one questioned religion. A few hundred years ago if it didn't get you killed or jailed it would at least get you ostracized.
Even as early back as the 1600s and 1700s talking against religion was dangerous. Spinoza did it and there were attempts on his life. Hume had to keep the fact that he was an atheist until his death bed.
In short religion has gotten spoiled. They are not used to people asking these questions so a lot of them really don't have answers. This is especially true of Protestants, the Calvinist doctrine just says anyone who is against the religion must be secretly being influenced by Satan. The Catholics are a little better but a lot of their ideas are out-dated. The Orthodox have the best approach and actually acknolwedge that religion is a matter of faith so it's not something they can prove. Have you noticed that they are the group that is the least likely to get mad?
>>392186
>>391475
>>391281
>>391112
>>383882
hedonism is the human nature and will therefore always prevail. any doctrine which is not explicit hedonism will be mocked as ascetic or fantasy, precisely because the hedonists think that it is ridiculous to regulate the desires and pleasures and ridiculous to stop regulating pains.
>>392206
>it is ridiculous to regulate the desires and pleasures and ridiculous to stop regulating pains.
wut?
t.agnostic atheist
>>392206
Well, I mean, that's certainly a good thing. Sure, it could potentially be taken to an extreme, but hedonism in and of itself isn't bad. I think we SHOULD be striving towards a civilization that is pro-minding your own business and pro-doing what you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.
>>392231
>>392231
Ah, yea i'd agree, if we're going to excluding some aspects of human nature, that seem to be suggested by genetics even. Apart from in principle but there would have to be some exceptions. such as the perception of what's bad and what's good is limited by 'perception' (not sure if this the best for it word), as in some consequences aren't predictable
>>383887
Just think, in 3 years "none" will be the single largest category of religion in America.
>>383882
>Do you think we'll live to see the day that atheists outnumber the religious?
You already live in that world.
Also Christianity is just a meme on 4chan.
Do you seriously think that all these basement dweller neckbeard betas are faithful Christians?
>>393485
Wat. What country you in, m8?
