Is nationalism fundamentally unchristian? Considering it grew out of very secular ideology?
Also, is communism (as we generally understand the term today, that is, as what grew out of secular ideology) fundamentally unchristian for the same reason? As opposed to communitarianism, for instance, which has a precedence in the NT.
>>379252
Christianity is inherently universalist, so there will be substantial tension with nationalism.
Communism has been cjaracterized by Marx as a final form of chmristianity that has stripped off faith and become fully practical.
>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28
>>379317
Not sure how that relates to communism.
>>379252
You can seperate ideas by many different aspects.
From the "charity" point of view, the teachings of Jesus Christ are close to Communism.
From the "tradition" point of view, Christianity as an institution is close to Nationalism.
>>379340
It relates to nationalism, which is what the thread is about
>>379354
Ah, well, yes. That is quite true.
>>379348
>From the "charity" point of view, the teachings of Jesus Christ are close to Communism.
Don't you think it's closer to communitarianism?
>From the "tradition" point of view, Christianity as an institution is close to Nationalism.
Uh, how? Nationalism isn't traditionalist, it's modernist.
>>379252
faith transcends both nationalism and other idealisms, while not being completely separate from it. speaking as a nonchristan i would say that nationalism is unchristian, as it puts the state above the person and often above any Christian institutions. the final Utopian communism is close to what jesus talked about and his values of living a holy life (camels and needles and all that)
>>379510
Is central planning really something Jesus cared about?
>>379252
Nationalism isn't inherently un-Christian.
Believing that one nation is superior to another is un-Christian, since the bible teaches that all are equal.
>>379317
I agree so much that I think we should Nationalize it.
>>379688
But didn't nationalism basically come out of the French Revolution and British capitalism?
>>379548
Central planning is only a means to the end of communal ownership.
>>379713
Seems like a regression
>>379738
Not from a christian point of view.
>>379750
How is central economic planning desirable from a Christian perspective?
>>379817
Yeah, but since that's demonstrably false, I'm not sure what your point is.
>>379837
What is demonstrably false?
>>379847
I mean fief economics have never produced communal ownership, and there's not reason to believe they ever would anymore than private enterprise.
>>379859
>fief economics
Who was talking of fief economics?
>>379884
Central planning economics are identical with fief economics, it's just on a macro scale.
>>379898
Lol, no. A plannikg authority isn't ehen a necessary component of fief economics.
Also, this is besides the point, as central planning isn't an essential part of the communist attemt to establisg commonalmownership, it is just one strategy for getting there. Wether this works or not is completely irrelevant to the question of how communist goals relate to christianity.
>>379923
The authority of fief economics definitely decides who gets how much food.
Central planning and anarchism are the only two significant iterations of communism as a modernist ideology.
Whether it works kind of matters, since you propose it is a Christian goal based entirely on it accomplishing something else.
>that OP image
da fuck
Well, Catholic Christianity has taught that the Church's authority supersedes the authority of any national government, particularly when it comes to dictates of behavior.
This came to a head in the Middle Ages with the Dictatus Papae.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatus_papae
>>380405
It's from a movie based on the writings of Marquis de Sade.
>>379252
Christianity is not concerned with nations, period.
>>380411
Is that actually Canon, though?
>>379252
I think it is; if it isn't then nationalism has no redeeming qualities.
Having internal communities whose ties within supersede the ties without is what leads to shit like terrorism. Fuck diaspora, fuck race, and since no one gives a fuck that Jesus said to love your neighbor and obey laws, one cannot have a decent society without nationalism. By that I mean, global identity is impossible and national identity is.
>>380519
Er, I'd actually say modern terrorism is very much a product of nationalism.
>>380540
Bullshit, nigga. Why a Frenchman gonna keel Frenchmen? Because his religious/ethnic identity is more important to him than the heritage into which he should integrate. Failure to assimilate into a culture into which one was born shows that secondary communities within one's national identity are more important.
Nationalism prevents internal community supposing the nation is a nation and not a loose confederation of unlike people like former Balkan states.
>>380570
Terrorists organizations start in countries where they're integrated in. They might launch attacks outside of it, but "failure to integrate" doesn't have anything to do with terrorism, and nationalism is often very ethnic. The Roman Empire was not ethnic, for instance, Greeks called themselves Roman, but Turkey was very nationalist, hence the Greeks did not think of themselves as Turks and were consequently genocided.
>>380580
>Greeks called themselves Roman
That's what I'm saying. I don't see your point. Once we make distinctions like "Beurs," "Nonhispanic white," "Muslim," &c. we are deliberately consenting to internal strife.
>>380616
Ah, but Greeks also looked down on Romans who spoke Latin.
>>380622
There's a big difference between looking down on a language and considering oneself a different community. I look down on my fellow Americans who can only speak the official language, too, but we're still all Americans (not African-Americans, Polish-Americans, &c. and anyone who disagrees is a cunt who I don't want living in the same country as me).
Jesus is LORD.
>>380702
>Yes goyim, reject your roots
>We're all equals, white countries for every children of god
>Jesus was a jew, doesn't that make us special, please remember we're special
>>380707
Must suck being from the House of the Cargo Mule.
>>380684
You both still speak a common language.
>>379252
What is this pic from?
>>380616
>"Beurs,"
Frenchfag detected
>but we're still all Americans
Will you stop lying?
>>379252
Based upon the tensions between nationalism and Christianity I would say that nationalism competes with Christianity.
Communism is incompatible with Christianity for a number of reasons, its strict materialism being a large element.
>>380684
>There's a big difference between looking down on a language and considering oneself a different community.
It wasn't as big a difference in the olden days.
>>381699
>We're all equals, white countries for every children of god
I love it how Stormfags say "african for africans" and "asia for asians", but when it comes to Europeans they say "white countries". Hmmm.
>>380411
>>380480
If there is a conflict between the dogma or doctrines of the Church and secular law you are to side with the Church, yes.
An example was the law that was going to force American Catholic parishes to pay for abortion, etc. The USCCB, not a very conservative group, issued a letter to all American Catholics that stated 'we will not, we cannot, obey this law'.
>>381764
what's your point?
>>379252
No.
No. Here in Ireland, the Nationalist movement was tied intrinsically to Catholicism.
>>382006
>the Nationalist movement was tied intrinsically to Catholicism
you wot m8?
>>382047
He was an exception, and there were others like him. For example a Jewish man who fought against the Brits.But during the Revolutionary period and the 50+ years afterwards, it was all about dat Catholocism
>>381737
Some porno.
>>382051
The United Irishmen were predominantly protestant and they literally founded Irish nationalism. The Irish cultural nationalism of the Romantic period was fuelled by protestants and protestants were very much a part of the early 20th century nationalist movement. Protestants and irish nationalism are pretty much inseparable. dev was just a cunt
>>381764
cus it includes North America which we colonized before everyone else due to busting our asses to innovate.
