When will the Nation State become obsolete, and what will replace it?
>>377610
Supranational unions, perhaps. The EU is a good example of the sorts of federations that might develop.
>>377610
>>377610
the UN is trying its best to keep the nation state a thing, and either world socialist republic or the resurgence of empires
>>377635
Where would a world socialist republic, or even empires stem from? The ideologies supporting both of those sorts of institutions have mostly been eradicated.
>>377610
trade unions.
nation states will never end though.
>>377610
The nation state became irrelevant in 1945. We've been living under a global corporate plutocracy since then and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
>>377635
>the resurgence of empires
please this
or federated city states
>>377610
Superstates obviously.
>>377610
What is most probable is that nation states are going to fragment into citystates. There are so many people, tribes, city states that want to secede or are already autonomous regions.
>>377683
imperialism is well and truly not a thing of the past, the only thing thats making empires not reform is the UN, and socialism is socialism, its always going to have appeal to those who live in developing nations, particularly textiles heavy countries
>>377725
1984 makes so little sense.
Nobody gains anything from the state in which society is structured.
The higher ups in dictatorships have a really good life.
The higher ups in 1984 have a barely decent life.
Within 150 years.
Neo-medievalism.
>>377610
Most of the Powers That Be aren't nation states at all
>Russia
>USA
>China
>UK
>Fine, India.
>>377687
>nation states will never end though.
Bold statement considering they only exist from French revolution onwards. We had literally thousands of years perfectly existing without nation states.
>>377752
socialism is probably going to remain a thing so long as industrial society exists without some sorts of post-scarcity development. what is most likely dead for the most part, however, is the soviet style of socialism.
Soon and expert networks
>>377768
It wasn't meant to be a "realistic" portrayal. It was simply a vehicle to examine the nature of Totalitarianism. Big Brother for instance is a kind of distillation of all the cults of personality like Stalin, Hitler, and others like them, It's why he is just "Big Brother" and not given an actual name.
Corporate plutocracy.
Any form of democracy is bad, it should be an authoritarian dictatorship of some form but it should be done in a way that so that the leader is always good
I say an Elective from an Oligarchy of Philosopher/Business-Kings
>>377610
In the year 3535
Galactic techno-empires run by hyperadvanced AI with godlike powers.
>>377893
Even potential future powers like India, Brazil, Nigeria, Indonesia, etc. aren't singular nation-states.
>>377635
The UN actively prevents nation-states from forming. They want to keep the current borders intact at all costs.
>>377610
Countries will either break apart into smaller and smaller parts untill they form city states with loose confederations based on region and culture, or super states will be formed through the consolodation of loose unions already in existence ( MENA, EU, etc) untill eventually war breaks out and we see devastation on scales unimaginable and the majority of the world falls under a single government.
>>379176
Oh yea forgot to add its also very likely rampant corporatism will devolve into neo fuedalism.
>>377610
Corporations will act to remove any effective barriers between nations. See: every trade agreement ever. Once economic barriers are down, globalisation will gradually smooth over any unique regional social/ethnic traits.
>>379198
You're thinking of corporatocracy, not corporatism.
>>377725
I always wondered if the theory Britain is actually not part of Oceania and just a communist dictatorship alone and the rest is purely propaganda is true.
>>377622
Works great doesn't it...... compared to nation states.
>>377893
I would say they are nation states. All have a dominant culture with some satellite cultures in their domains but are for all intents are purposes nation states.
>>379238
Regrettably, this is the correct answer.
Corporate state.
I for one look forward to live in the Apple States of America
>>377622
The EU is a catastrophic failure and is unpopular in many of its constituents.
Nothing short of a change in human nature will change the nation state. A melding of ideas and race might bring it about but that is outside of the realm of possibility. An expansion into space and the formation of large federations isn't improbable, but the nation state will still probably exist.
Also I don't see nation states becoming obsolete on Earth. They are beneficial for their citizens and serve a good purpose.
>>379665
>Nothing short of a change in human nature will change the nation state.
Considering the vast majority of human existence has been before the formation of nation-states, I don't think so Tim
>>379673
>implying that humanity hasn't been divided into tribes for the majority of human existence
Humans have always divided themselves along culture and/or blood. The tribe is a proto-nation state and the precursor to it.
>>379704
>humans naturally form into groups
>which is why this specific group I like is the correct version, but any other type of group is wrong and won't happen
>because reasons
>>377610
>>377898
and those thousands of years were spent without the modern technological advancements that we enjoy today, and without a world as interconnected in both social, and economic terms as today.
>>377635
Empires would come in the form of corporations
>>379087
The other two I can understand, but
>nigeria
>indonesia
literally what
>>379889
Both have potential in terms of massive populations, growing markets, and lots of natural resources.
>>379238
Cultural differences will get in the way first.
>>379406
Well, the war is in Goldstein's book right? That was all propaganda.
>>377768
>The higher ups in 1984 have a barely decent life.
Happiness doesn't come from your possessions, but your possessions relative to what everyone else has. If you get 10 ounces of butter a month while everyone else gets 4, you'll feel better than someone who gets a pound of butter while everyone else gets 2.
>>379436
>China
>India
>Russia
>SOME satellite cultures
You really have no idea what you're talking about do you?
How is an Empire fundamentally different to a Nation State
>>377702
>W'eve been living under a global corporate plutocracy since then and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
This
>>380542
An empire encompasses multiple nations/tribes/cultures
>All of these fucking plebs
>They don't realize that the nation state fell out of vogue by Bretton Woods
>These fuckers don't know that modern Democratic States are not Nation-States
>Political movements towards the formation of nation-states considered regressive and dangerous by the prevailing international political orthodoxy
>>377610
Non-Territorial Sovereign movements capable of being hyper flexible and having amassed enough power to stand up on its own.
Similar to current expatriate groups who are sufficiently wealthy to dictate what laws they live by basically.
Will wever see significant border changes (as we know them now) again, such as has happened in the last ~2 centuries?
>>377610
I can only tell you what I HOPE will replace the nation state.
>>377904
Even then I don't see it working.
>>377610
THE NETWORK SOCIETY MOTHERFUCKER
IT'S HERE
IT'S ACCURATE
DEAL WITH IT
>>380800
Yes, have what is happening in the middle east?
Ukraine and Russias borders have just changed.
Still plenty of Russian minority groups in the baltics and Finland.
Reforming Syria along its historical borders is fucking retarded.
Independence movements are gaining much more tract in europe.
I mean Yugoslavia only fall apart 20 years ago, the world is by no mans a stable place.
No one is a Fukuyamaist anymore, not even Fukuyama.
We are living at the return of history, not the end of it.
>>377768
>Nobody gains anything from the state in which society is structured.
>The higher ups in dictatorships have a really good life.
>The higher ups in 1984 have a barely decent life.
Have you heard of Stalin era Soviet Union, Mao era China or even modern day North Korea?
>>381222
>Finland
Ex Soviets. Not Russian. Mostly other finnic peoples. Russian speaking minority is ~1%
>>377898
Care to elaborate? Weren't there already countries in europe, just without fervent nationalism?
>>379889
Both aren't dominated by any one ethnicity.
Nigeria was invented by the british
Indonesia by the dutch.
>>377610
When megacorps become even more powerful.
>>379238
>Implying you don't want to be able to travel anywhere in the world without a passport or visa
>>377610
when the ligth shines brother
its been prophesied for aloooong time
do you happen to know the literall meaning of the word apocalypse?
>>377768
welcome to every day life in a perpetual world war.
>When will the Nation State become obsolete, and what will replace it?
Total societal collapse and widespread anarchy.
>>383124
How the fuck am I from /pol/, all I said was that the vast majority of human history was spent outside of a nation-state, so it's stupid to assume they're some natural product of "human nature"
How plausible is this?
>>383923
>Huge chunk of Australia just missing
Made me laugh.
But not likely at all anon, not without some genocides, pretty much every single ethnicity in Africa just hates all the others.
>>379665
>EU
>Failure
O' I am laffin'
>>382364
Not who you respond to but yes
But a 'nation state' implies a country based around a nation, so there's cultural and ethnic connotations
Pre-revolutionary European countries typically didn't have that
They were based on monarchs and geographic constraints
>>377610
Macrocorporations. Business, companies and brands. All of them with private armies. With the state and the land losing any spiritual and unpragmatic value, everything will be able to be bought and the privatization of everything will follow.
Land, services and eventually people will be property of groups of rich oligarchs akin to the feudal lords of the past. Prepare yourself to be a modern knight for the kingdom of Walmart.
The states of the world federal government, I hope.
>>384016
Didn't basically all homogenous countries have a point where they heavily suppressed or outright murdered the other native minorities in their territory?
>>379238
While I agree that this is what will happen to the nation, but what effect will these changes have on the state? There has to be some governing force between the corporations, that is what the state does now.
>>377610
There aren't a whole lot of actual nation-states to begin with.
If there were, there'd probably be around 3000 countries on Earth.
Transnationalism seems to actually be instigating a drive for more nation-states, like Catalonia, Scotland, Azawad, etc.
>>377898
>the french revolution
try the treaty of Westphalia, bud
>>384068
But anon, companies with private armies already happened during european colonisation. They were the British and Dutch East India and West India Companies.
The members of those companies and armies have to speak a language. Why wouldn't the territory controlled by those armies eventually become nation states?
>>377725
Lol Darwin. What a shit hole.
Just city states all over the world, with a global peacekeeping operation, and if any one place starts thinking about annexing territory, all the other cities retaliate to prevent it from happening.
Global free trade.
Imagine the GDP
>>377610
Christ, Russia is big.
>>388887
It is, but that projection distorts it to make it look bigger than it actually is.
>>377702
I prefer to see the emergence of corporate plutocracy as less of the destruction of the state, but more of a continuation of a long history of aristocratic states such as medieval feudalism. The state didn't die, it reverted back to its more traditional form, with businesses becoming a strange combination of nobility and church. The interesting question is the balance of power between corporations and state, how similar or different is it from Church and state. In traditional Europe Church and State had a reciprocal relationship. Church made it the responsibility of states to protect churches and kings needed the church for divine legitimacy. I would love to see some research done on such a comparison.
>>388887
Don't take that picture as evidence though, that projection fucks up with sizes to preserve shapes.
Greenland is not the size of Africa nor is Iceland as big as Spain.
>>377768
>The higher ups in 1984 have a barely decent life.
I'm pretty sure that one guy that trapped Winston Smith in that dragnet had a pretty fucking good life and he was just upper management.
