Jews were a huge part of the Bolshevik movement, they had a huge influential in the course of the October Revolution and the Russian Civil War. Later, during Stalin's era, they were some of his most willing executioners, Jews like Lazar Kaganovich and Genrikh Yagoda had a huge part in the Soviet famine of 1932-1933, specially the Ukrainian famine that came to be called the Holodomor. And though their power in the Soviet Union declined after the Great Purge, they were influential in the newly established communist regimes of Eastern Europe after World War II. Hungary, Poland and Romania, all had Jewish leaders during their most repressive, Stalinist period.
My question is, how do Jews react to that? Germans, for example, are told to feel guilty for the crimes of Nazi Germany, just as White Americans are expected to apologize and pay reparations for slavery. Europeans, overall, are still held accountable for the crimes of colonialism. So how do Jews get away with their involvment in one of the most murderous regimes of the XXth century? How can there be no guilt, no apology, not a single Jewish person who has come forward and said: "hey, maybe we did bad things in Ukraine, we should feel bad"?
>>372984
something along the lines of "its ok that they did this because people were mean to them :("
>>372984
The Soviets as a whole were pretty shitty, so I'm sure people look at it more as being the acts of an organization, rather than an enthicity.
>>372984
> Soviet Union benefits Jews
> Soviet Union benefits Jews in the party
This is not the same thing.
>>372984
>In the 1920s, of the 417 members of the Central Executive Committee, the party Central Committee, the Presidium of the Executive of the Soviets of the USSR and the Russian Republic, the People's Commissars, 6% were ethnic Jews.
>According to the 1922 party census, there were 19,564 Jewish Bolsheviks, comprising 5.21% of the total.
There were practically no Jews left in any senior government positions by 1940 in the USSR.
"but muh jooish conspiracy!!"
Fucking off back to /pol/
>>373049
I never said anything about "Jewish conspiracy", I admitted that after the Great Purge, Jews lost a lot of influence in the Soviet government.
My point is more about how Jews see their own role in the creation, establishment and governance of the Soviet Union. We cannot underestimate it when so many influential Bolsheviks were Jews, and how much of their Bolshevism was influenced by their ideas of social justice which are derived from secular Jewish culture (for the same reasons, all the leaders of the German Revolution in 1918 were Jews too).
>>373049
jews had everything to do with the rise of communism nerd
>>372984
>jews are evil capitalist pigs >:(((
>jews are evil gommunist scum :DD
So much historical revisionism it's comical, Jews of the Don, Kuba, Ukraine and Black Sea were also killed in pogroms, and also made up the same number of the White Russians
The fact you continuously attribute certain acts by a cherry picked few and apply them to an entire group shows how utterly retarded you are, so I won't be surprised if you aren't able to read this, fucking stormblers
>>373089
>>jews are evil capitalist pigs >:(((
>>jews are evil gommunist scum :DD
Implying there is a difference
>>373028
The claim was closer to
>Party Jews exercised a lot of influence within the Party
>>373049
Stalin purged them in the 30s, this is a well known fact.
Picrelated is an ethnic makeup of NKVD leadership.
Blue - Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians
Pink - Jews
Green - Poles, Latvians, Germans
Gray - Georgians, Armenians, Azeris
>>373089
>and also made up the same number of the White Russians
Tell me the name of a single Jewish member of the White Russian movement.
>>373102
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Alekseyev
Are you this fucking retarded
>>373070
>mfw reading about the Munich Soviet Republic
>>373070
Again, they made up 6% or less of the party and the ruling elite, a tiny fraction.
Now if you want to talk about why Jews are socialists, especially back in the day, there are a few reasons:
1. As Jews began entering academia since they were not allowed to previously, socialist ideals began to spread. Naturally, they overwhelmingly joined that side.
2. Persecution of Jews caused more secular Jews who were disconnected from their Jewish values to envision an entirely equal society free from this persecution. Religious Jews didn't follow this trend because it would mean the abandonment of their religion, which secular Jews didn't care much for.
3. Conservatism was associated with the Tsar of Russia and the Catholic Church, both involved in oppressing Jews.
>>373099
That's what I am talking about. During the most repressive periods of the Soviet Union (the early 1930s), Jews were hugely overrepresented in the state security apparatus, and had a huge involvement in the reppression of kulaks, Ukrainian nationalists, Balmachi Muslims etc.
It was the same in Eastern Europe after World War II, the secret police was traditionally staffed with Jews because they could be trusted to be loyal to the Soviet Union, and to not develop any sympathies with the anti-communist guerrillas like the Cursed soldiers of Poland and agrarian nationalists in Hungary. When Stalinism ended, Jews were purged (the Slansky trial being the classic example) and the countries more or less returned to "normality".
Any other ethnicity with such a close relatonship with totalitarianism across decades would have been scrutinized.
>>373108
Since when was Alekseyev Jewish?
Completely disregarding the fact that his name is obscenely non-Jewish, but even the article you posted doesn't mention anything about him being a Jew.
>>373102
>"HAHA there are no people starving in Africa!"
>Yes there are
>"OH YEAH? well name ONE!"
>>373120
Jews were being purged from the NKVD by 1936.
>>373124
Can you name one?
>>373102
>http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14908.html
an entire book
>Jews were both victims and executioners, and while they were among the founders of the Soviet state, they also played an important role in the establishment of the anti-Bolshevik factions. He offers a far more nuanced picture of the policies of the White leadership toward the Jews than has been previously available, exploring such issues as the role of prominent Jewish politicians in the establishment of the White movement of southern Russia
>>373144
Starvin' Marvin
>>373102
Why would you have any when the Whites were initiating pogroms at the very start of the civil war? Why would you join a movement openly hostile to you and your people? Especially seeing as they were fighting to preserve a society that also shared this hostility?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev_Pogroms_(1919)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire
>>373138
He's mentioning Slansky who was a Czechoslovak communist. While Stalin did purge the Jews in the 30s, the Jews outside of USSR did their best to install socialism in their countries.
>>373158
>JEWS WERE EQUALLY REPRESENTED AMONG WHITES
>no, they were not
>CAN YOU BLAME THEM? THE WHITES WERE MEAN TO THEM
Not the guy you're arguing with btw, but it's comical how you completely changed your argument.
>>373158
Much of what we know about the pogroms comes from Western propaganda, they were not so widespread, neither were they supported by the Tsarist movement. It was mostly peasants tired of being swindled by moneylenders burning some property, sometimes with people inside.
Of course, the White movement did actually organize pogroms, but that was understandable, since Jews were so clearly identified with the Bolshevik movement.
>>373166
"The Jews"
Except this is not true. There was no unified political ideology of Jews. Plenty of Jews were on the right, and even some like Howard Stern were fascists (although he became a Bolshevist later on).
Were Jews overrepresented among Socialists? Probably, but not by a lot. Nevertheless, they are overrepresented in essentially every ideology except fascism.
Think of libertarianism for example, the opposite of national Bolshevism. Rand, Rothbard, Kokesh, Schiff, Friedman, von Mises, and Stossel are all Jewish libertarians.
Global Kabbalist control, that's how.
>>373181
Literally at least 50 000 Jews were killed in Pogroms during the Russian Revolution, with some estimates as high as 250 000.
>>373200
>Howard Stern
>mentioning a fucking burgerlord media personality in a discussion about early to mid 20th century Russia and Eastern Europe
Can you please fuck off Amerilard?
And nobody said that all Jews in existence were communists, just that the disproportional number of communists were Jews.
>>373097
yagoda got wacked though
>>373200
the italian fascist party had a disproportionate amount of jews actually
>>373285
not him, but can you provide a source?
>>372984
Because you're a retard.
>There were Jewish Bolsheviks
>ergo Jews did all the horrible things the Bolsheviks did
Let's see where we can go with this.
>There were Catholic Nazis
>ergo Catholics did all the terrible things the Nazis did
>There were [minority] [political movement members]
>ergo they were responsible for all the terrible things [political movement] did
>>373346
>there were Nazi Germans
>ergo Germans did all the terrible things that Nazis did
>>373285
I can really only think of one or two to be honest. It is true that antisemitism was seen as more of "germanic" characteristic though, at least in the early days of fascism.
>>373344
from Stanley Payne, The History of Fascism, 1914-1945
>>373138
you fucking idiot. would you answer his questions rather than deflect them as if what he were saying wasn't totally legitimate?
>>373362
>"Nazism was to Germans what Bolshevism was to Jews"
I think a better question is why Jews are always overrepresnted in movements which seek to invert pre-existing systems of morals and values? Whether this be in Tsarist Russia, The Roman Empire, 60's USA.
>>373553
Pretty much yeah.
>>373580
Tikkun Olam.
>>373362
But the guilt of WW2 and the Holocaust is completely placed on the German people. Hell, icalling people Nazis is a tactic used by the Left to browbeat Germans into accepting refugees and non-white migrants.
>>373584
"Repair the world" by making it worse for everyone and imposing Jewish morals onto non-Jews. This is exactly why Jews are almost universally dispised and distrusted.
>>373589
I know, which is hilarious. It's weird that Germans have to atone for the crimes of nazism for eternity (statistical majority of Germans were not nazis by the way, NSDAP didn't even get 45% in the elections), while the involvement of Jews in communist and bolshevik movements is ridiculously marginalized.
And I'm not from /pol/ in case someone tries pulling that card.
>>373603
tThe /pol/ card is a shitty Leftist ad-hominem anyway.
>>373603
Because a higher percentage of Germans were Nazis then Jews were Bolsheviks.
I think browbeating anyone, German or Jewish, for past transgressions of their ancestors is wrong though.
I've always found it weird that the same people who trip over themselves to excuse the crimes of groups of the Nazis on grounds of them just fighting some sort of Jewish conspiracy are completely incapable of grasping that Jews had a larger presence in radical movements (such as the attempted Communist revolution in Germany) because they were treated like crap by a lot of European nations. Anti-semitism far fucking precedes Communism.
>>373829
>I've always found it weird that the same people who
straw man incoming
>>372984
Jews tend to be a huge part of politics everywhere though.
I've been reading about the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks as of late. Bolsheviks gained control of russia. Bolsheviks meaning the Majority. When these Bolsheviks came to the U.S. the U.S. ran propaganda called Majority 12. Which echoes red fear.
Have any of you heard about the Auschwitz nurse? That supposedly damaged auschwitz demographics by counting all circumcised men as jewish? Idk if this legend is true. As for an answer around your question I think i skimmed a little but not so much that you can't infer.
>>374264
>When these Bolsheviks came to the U.S.
You mean like, the people who had just taken over Russia...left? For the US? What kind of nonsense is that?
>>373228
He might be referring to Avraham Stern whose militant Zionist group, Lehi, were terrorists and bank robbers who sought an alliance with the Axis during WWII to help kick the British out of Palestine
As for OP, I don't know how the Jewish community themselves react to it (particularly with the difference between secular Jews and religious Jews, and how the USSR blocked Jews from going to Israel)
But it seems odd to expect them to be held accountable/apologize when they only formed part of the Bolsheviks
You don't see specifically Prussians coming out to atone for what the Nazis did
Because the USSR did nothing wrong.
>>373346
But Catholics are told to feel guilty for the crimes of Nazism even though they weren't that relevant in the movement as Jews were in Bolshevism.
>>375090
>Catholics are told to feel guilty for the crimes of Nazism
That is complete nonsense and you know it. Catholic germans are particularly proud of the resistance of clergy, and no non-german catholic feels any kind of guilt, or is even expected to.
>>372984
>The Nazis were bad
>The Nazis were German
>my ancestors came from Germany to the US in the 1840s
On behalf of the German people, I would like to apologize for waging aggressive warfare that caused the deaths of 55 million people in World War II
Happy OP?
>>372984
I´ll take "shit that never happened" for 500 John.
>>372984
>Germans, for example, are told to feel guilty for the crimes of Nazi Germany, just as White Americans are expected to apologize and pay reparations for slavery. Europeans, overall, are still held accountable for the crimes of colonialism
Not by anybody sane. Sure, there are people who hold these views, but they get shot down upon entering the public arena.
>>373876
not a strawman actually.
>>373829
>le they deserved it meme
>>375443
Actually it is a strawman. I don't see anything ITT claiming to be a nazi fanboy, yet you literally used that shit in an argument.
That's silly. "The Jews" aren't a nation. You can't assign collective blame to an ethnic/religious group because some individuals were involved here or there... just absurd really, I have no idea what point you're trying to convey here. It's like saying Muslims in SEA have to take the blame for Syrian suicide bombers. Lmao.
>>375463
>you can only identify nazi fanboys once they proclaim their identity themselves
That's how disguised nazi fanboys wish it would work, consider yourself detected.
So Jews in France or the USA or Brazil or whatever need to feel guilty because some Jews somewhere on the other side of the world were high ranking officials in an evil regime about a century ago? This makes perfect sense!
>>374264
>the U.S. ran propaganda called Majority 12
Is this the origin of the Majestic-12 group that pops up in conspiracy theories?
>>375487
If they identify primarily as Jews, which most of them do, then yes of course, just like everyone else is expected to.
>>375494
So, are Irish people in Boston responsible for the IRA (ok, that's a bad example as they actually gave them money)? Are turkish Kurds responsible if Iranian kurds blow shit up? And most importantly, am I, as a german, not only responsible for WW2, in which my granddads fought, but also for american slavery?
>>375463
I am this Anon>>375443 , not this one>>373829
> I don't see anything ITT claiming to be a nazi fanboy
well, you are certainly right that there is no hardcore stormfagging going around, as in
>trip over themselves to excuse the crimes of groups of the Nazis
To be fair he didn´t say that anybody ITT said that.
But don´t you think that the whole "the germans have to eternaly apologize whilst the jews, who are responsible for soviet totalitarianism, don´t admit their responsibility" is at least tacitly suggesting that the whole boshevism thing was a jewish conspiracy?
>>375514
Irish, Kurds, and Germans are collectively responsible for those things respectively (not sure how you get Germans being responsible for American slavery but ok). If you choose to identify as part of one of those groups, you choose to share the responsibility.
>>375494
That makes absolutely zero sense and I'm tempted to unironically call you an anti-semite... but I'll settle for retard since you seem to believe /pol/'s paranoia about white people today being forced to shoulder guilt for whatever atrocities their ancestors comitted.
>>375522
>you choose to identify as a citizen/ethicgroup
That's convenient. I identify as a trans-American, where's my citizenship?
>>373049
There were hundreds of thousands of people in the communist party, obviously most of them held no power whatsoever...
The proportion off jews in the upper reaches of the party was much higher.
>>373113
>Again, they made up 6% or less of the party
Correct
> and the ruling elite
WRONG
>>373222
I heard it was 6 million
>>373580
Read "the culture of critique"
>>375522
Not the Anon you replied to, but I think, that when talking about collective guilt, it is important to keep in mind that there are several ways in which this can be justified:
1.- By affiliation: If you adhere to something that structurally leads to something. If you are a white supremacist in Sweden you can be held acountable for Apartheid in South Africa, even if you are not part of the group that enacted and benefited from it, because it is reasonable to assume that you would have done the same if you had the oportunity. This guilt is of course, "merely" moral.
2.-By membership: If you are part of the group that implemented something, benefited from it and did not resist it.
You can make the case that the germans are responsible in both ways:
1.-It has been argued, that the "ideology of germanness" was causaly related to the eiminatory Antisemitism, Niebelugentreue and Lebensraum philosophy. You can argue about wether this is true, but a convincing argument can be made of it.
2.- It is undeniable that the Germans in Germany brought the Nazis to power, where with very few exceptions loyal to the end and benefitted from the resulting plunder.
You can´t make this arguments for jews and Bolshevism:
1.- Judaism contains no direct link towards the emergence of Bolshevism
2.-There where Jews on all sides of the political spectrum, significant numbers opposed, fought or where victimized by the Bolshevics.
>>375562
>1.- Judaism contains no direct link towards the emergence of Bolshevism
This is a fallacy. Nobody claims that judaism caused bolshevism. People claim that jews caused bolshevism. It's a very big mistake to confuse the ethnic identity of jews with their religious identity. Judaism didn't cause bolshevism, yes, just like protestantism didn't cause nazism.
>2.-There where Jews on all sides of the political spectrum, significant numbers opposed, fought or where victimized by the Bolshevics.
And I'm sure there were many full blooded aryan germans who opposed the nazi regime.
>>375570
>Nobody claims that judaism caused bolshevism. People claim that jews caused bolshevism. It's a very big mistake to confuse the ethnic identity of jews with their religious identity. Judaism didn't cause bolshevism, yes, just like protestantism didn't cause nazism.
My point exactly, friend
>And I'm sure there were many full blooded aryan germans who opposed the nazi regime.
Active resistance to the regime ocurred nly in neglectable numbers. Germany and Austria where the only contrys in Europe that didn´t have a significant resistance to fascism/nazism.
>>375578
>My point exactly, friend
But Jews DID play a prominent role in the appearance of bolshevism, a role so prominent it's a valid to question whether bolshevism would have arisen in Russia had it not had a significant jewish minority.
>Active resistance to the regime ocurred nly in neglectable numbers
The same could be said about jewish resistance to bolshevism.
>>375586
>But Jews DID play a prominent role in the appearance of bolshevism, a role so prominent it's a valid to question whether bolshevism would have arisen in Russia had it not had a significant jewish minority.
May I remind you that we are argueing about wether jews should collectively be held acountable for boshevism? Your Point seems to divert the argument quite a bit.
>The same could be said about jewish resistance to bolshevism.
Well, the Maschnowschtschina comes to mind. Or the Kronberg sailors rebellion.
>>375586
>The same could be said about jewish resistance to bolshevism
It really can't, if you look globally at people who self-identified as jews. As other anons have pointed out, some of the most anti-communist ideologies where spearheaded by jews. If collective complicity applies, then so does collective resistance.
>>375602
>May I remind you that we are argueing about wether jews should collectively be held acountable for boshevism?
Imo the idea that anyone should be held accountable for the sins of their ancestors is stupid. I believe that jews should be held accountable for bolshevism to the same degree as germans are held accountable for nazism.
>Maschnowschtschina
What's that. Google gives 0 results.
>Or the Kronberg sailors rebellion.
I think you mean Kronstadt? The Kronstadt rebellion was notoriously marred with antisemitism. They proclaimed that the bolsheviks had been subverted by jews. When Kalinin came in to negotiate he was met with cries of "go home dirty jew", although he himself wasn't jewish kek.
Basically, the kronstadt sailors weren't jewish.
>>375604
>It really can't, if you look globally at people who self-identified as jews. As other anons have pointed out, some of the most anti-communist ideologies where spearheaded by jews.
And some of the most anti-nazi resistance organization were spearheaded by ethnic germans. This doesn't change the fact that jews were a major driving force behind late 19th century an early 20th century revolutionary movements.
>If collective complicity applies, then so does collective resistance.
It's a question of proportion, I guess.
>>375586
>But the Tsar DID play a prominent role in the appearance of bolshevism, a role so prominent it's a valid to question whether bolshevism would have arisen in Russia had it not had been ruled by the Tsar.
>>375620
Well I don't think anyone denies that.
>>375619
>It's a question of proportion, I guess
Exactly, and while german resistance was negligible, jewish anti-communism was super effective, so effective indeed that it could be argued, similarly to your own counterfactual, that the influence of jewish libertarians on the policies of the Reagan administration were instrumental for the downfall of the soviet union.
soviets were antisemites themselfs
they identified as communists, many of them happened to be from jewish roots since they often came from educated/trading families, more likely to be touched by communist ideology
this is because how eastern yuropean society worked out (administration and trading were too dirty for the upper class which was the nobility, read up on it if you will, a century long process)
the whole thread is filled with uneducated poltards, knowing nothing about the nature of communism and what lead to it
>>375634
>jewish anti-communism was super effective
[citation needed]
What jewish anti-communism??
And I'm talking about revolutionary russia here, so no need to quote Milton Friedman.
>that the influence of jewish libertarians on the policies of the Reagan administration were instrumental for the downfall of the soviet union.
Absolutely. But american jews in the 1980s were a whole different beast from central and eastern european jews in the 1900s.
So yeah, waiting for proof of this jewish "anti-communist" resistance in revolutionary russia.
>>375619
>Imo the idea that anyone should be held accountable for the sins of their ancestors is stupid. I believe that jews should be held accountable for bolshevism to the same degree as germans are held accountable for nazism.
In that respect may I refer to>>375562
I don´t blame you for finding it stupid, but you have to admit, that when it comes to blaming the ancestors a convincing case can be made for the jermans and nazism. This is not so for jews and bolshevism.
>Maschnowschtschina
>What's that. Google gives 0 results.
typo, sorry. Machnowschtschina
Basically an anarchist ukranian Army. Implemented a death penalty for antisemitism.
>I think you mean Kronstadt?
yeah, sorry boout that. Kronstadt.
>The Kronstadt rebellion was notoriously marred with antisemitism. They proclaimed that the bolsheviks had been subverted by jews. When Kalinin came in to negotiate he was met with cries of "go home dirty jew", although he himself wasn't jewish kek.
huh, surprises me a lot. I vaguely recall recall reading that the Kronstadt rebellion was supported by the Bund. Anyhow, the Bund is a pretty good example of a explicitly jewish organization that largely oposed the october revolution.
>>375643
>So yeah, waiting for proof of this jewish "anti-communist" resistance in revolutionary russia
Several examples have been mentioned already, I'd like to add to them that, afaik, the menshevik faction, i.e. the democratic socialists, had an even higher jewish percentage than the bolsheviks, and they weren't too happy about the bolshevik takeover, either.
Another thing, since you're so ready to assign responsibility according to self-identification: those bolshevik jews didn't self-identify as such, they were explicitly opposed to their own jewish identity.
In the thirties Trotzky, now exiled, commented that this might have been a mistake, since it didn't save them one bit from persecution.
>>375654
>I don´t blame you for finding it stupid, but you have to admit, that when it comes to blaming the ancestors a convincing case can be made for the jermans and nazism. This is not so for jews and bolshevism.
I don't agree. A similar case can be made for germans and jews concerning nazism and bolshevism, respectively.
Why do you think germans are any more guilty for nazism than jews are guilty for bolshevism?
>Basically an anarchist ukranian Army. Implemented a death penalty for antisemitism.
But the Makhnovists weren't jewish at all. In fact, many detachments of Makhno's army committed pogroms. I don't see what you're trying to prove.
>Anyhow, the Bund is a pretty good example of a explicitly jewish organization that largely oposed the october revolution.
I'm sure many mostly german political parties opposed the rise to power of Hitler.
You seem to be a self-hating german.
>>375663
>Several examples have been mentioned already
Such as?
>I'd like to add to them that, afaik, the menshevik faction, i.e. the democratic socialists, had an even higher jewish percentage than the bolsheviks, and they weren't too happy about the bolshevik takeover, either
That's true, jews were also highly represented amongst social democrats. But that doesn't really help your case, because you're admitting that jews were very present in russian revolutionary movements.
>Another thing, since you're so ready to assign responsibility according to self-identification:
That's not true. I'm not in favor of self-identification. I'm against the claim that being jewish is a religious status. Being jewish is an ethnicity. A jew is a jew, whether he's an atheist communist or an orthodox rabbi.
>>375646
First of all, all of germany was involved in nazism, not some german minority in some other country. Second, the involved germans were involved with affirmation of their german identity, trying to further set themselves apart from non-germans in the allgermanic volksgemeinschaft.
>>375676
>, all of germany was involved in nazism
Jesus, is that what they teach you in german public schools?
No, not all germany was involved in nazism. The NSDAP had 1/3rd of the votes, not 100% of the votes.
>>372984
Because they weren't the only ones taking part of in it I guess?
Though granted, there were a disproportionate amount of pro-communist Jews around. I always assumed this was a natural result of being the traditional butt-boy of the nativist right. Communism wasn't exactly a "Jewish" political system after all, the repression of religion was fully extended towards Jews as much as any other religion.
This thread is literally /pol/-tier.
Why do you have to post it here, instead of on /pol/?
>Why do you think germans are any more guilty for nazism than jews are guilty for bolshevism?
I´ve tried to resume this in this post. >>375666Please be so kind to stat why jews are just as responsible for boshevism as germans for nazism
>But the Makhnovists weren't jewish at all. In fact, many detachments of Makhno's army committed pogroms. I don't see what you're trying to prove.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno#Allegations_of_antisemitism
hope this helps.
>I'm sure many mostly german political parties opposed the rise to power of Hitler.
And after the 1st of may 33 none of them did shit.
>You seem to be a self-hating german.
Lets be big kids and refrain from the ad hominemineminism, shall we?
>>375690
Because he's a /pol/tard and they love to evangelize. Jesus fucking christ. How's your first day on 4chan going?
>>375681
I said involved, not that everyone voted for the Nazis. Think about what I might have meant by that before you post again.
>>375697
>/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected.
>>375692
>Please be so kind to stat why jews are just as responsible for boshevism as germans for nazism
Because some jews spearheaded the bolshevik party, just like some germans spearheaded the nazi party.
>hope this helps.
A lot of propaganda has been written by Nestor Makhno, but even if we accept that he was against antisemitism, it does not change the fact that makhno and makhnovists weren't jewish. So Makhnovism isn't an anti-communist jewish movement.
>Lets be big kids and refrain from the ad hominemineminism, shall we?
But I'm right, aren't I?
I'm not german nor jewish so I don't really have a stake in this game, but I do find this fascinating.
>>375698
You honestly believe that 100% of the german population was involved in nazi politics?
>>375672
>Such as?
>>375602
>>373385
>>373147
>jews were very present in russian revolutionary movements
True, but would this give them particular responsibility for one of those movements over the others?
>A jew is a jew, whether he's an atheist communist or an orthodox rabbi.
Even if he doesn't self-identify as a jew? Why would any jew feel responsible for the deeds of someone who didn't care for being jewish in any sense of the word? The nazis matter to germans who care about being germna, because the nazis were germnas who cared about being german. This is why they have a sense of responsibility.
You know who's obliged to feel bad about bolshevism? Anyone who wants to establish a classless utopia, that's who.
>>375723
A lot of propaganda has been written by Nestor Makhno, but even if we accept that he was against antisemitism, it does not change the fact that makhno and makhnovists weren't jewish. So Makhnovism isn't an anti-communist jewish movement.
" Anarchist Paul Avrich writes, "Maknno's alleged anti-Semitism...Charges of Jew-baiting and of anti-Jewish pogroms have come from every quarter, left, right, and center. Without exception, however, they are based on hearsay, rumor, or intentional slander, and remain undocumented and unproved."[5] Avrich notes that a considerable number of Jews took part in the Makhnovist anarchist movement. Some, like Vsevolod Mikhailovich Eikhenbaum, also known as "Voline",[25][26] and Baron Aron were intellectuals who served on the Cultural-Educational Commission, wrote his manifestos, and edited his journals, but the great majority fought in the ranks of the Anarchist Black Army, either in special detachments of Jewish artillery and infantry, or else within the regular anarchist army brigades alongside peasants and workers of Ukrainian, Russian, and other ethnic origins. Together they formed a significant part of Makhno's anarchist army.[25][26] Significantly, during the Russian civil war, the Merkaz or Central Committee of the Zionist Organization in Russia regularly reported on many armed groups committing pogroms against Jews in Russia, including the Whites, the Russian Ukrainian 'Green' nationalist Nikifor Grigoriev (later shot by Black Army troops on Makhno's orders) as well as Red Army forces, but did not accuse Makhno or the anarchist Black Army of directing pogroms or other attacks against Russian Jews."
>>375723
>You honestly believe that 100% of the german population was involved in nazi politics?
Politics do not happen in a vacuum, you know? Keeping your head down is a form of involvement.
>>375739
>Keeping your head down is a form of involvement.
So all Muslims are terrorists then?
>>375723
>Because some jews spearheaded the bolshevik party, just like some germans spearheaded the nazi party.
a)Virtually all of them where self identified germans. Not all Boshevics where jews, neither where all of their leaders.
b) Nazism is incoceiveable without the idea of "germanness"
c)This >>375739
d) Again, no significant resistance of large numbers of germans.
e) please try to either refute/amplificate or engage my distiction of forms of collective guilt I stated in>>375562
>>375754
Not him, but that's different imo.
However if Muslims voted in a theocrat that suspended democracy, and instituted sharia law in a Western country, then yes, they would be accountable.
Not that this will happen.
>>375754
>So all Muslims are terrorists then?
No, just like their involvement didn't make all germans nazis.
Non-terrorist muslims may be complicit by silence or ideological defence, or they may resist terrorism by words and deeds.
>>375754
Not to mention that virtually everywhere, where islamists have risen in arms other muslims have actively and violently risen in arms to opose them.
>>375783
Since jews didn't rise up in arms to oppose bolshevism, could we deduce that all jews were complicit in bolshevism?
I mean the double standard really appalling to me.
>>375818
Mmmh, this is interesting.
Makhno's army was still a leftist revolutionary movement though. It doesn't really apply.
I'm looking for pro-tzarist jews.
>>375808
also:
if a is true then b true ≠if a is not true b is not true
do you even logic? ;)
>>375829
Why would they be?
Every statistical analysis of IQ in the world shows that Jews are the smartest people on the planet, and I doubt the smartest people on the planet would be monarchists. Especially not in a country where they were hunted by said monarchy.
>>372984
Jews are a cultural group of people, often with little in common with each other. A german jew probably has more in common with other germans than he has with a jew from russia, finland or Serbia.
So the reason "Jews" get away with it is because there's no realy tangible body of people to point your finger at. There is no "Jewish hive mind" which most of these theories seem to suggest.
This is excluding Israel of course, but you can't say nobody is smacktalking Israel these days.
>>375829
Please don´t change the argument. We are talking about jews oposing the bolsheviks. It doesn´t relly make sense that jews actively got involved with arguably the most violently antisemitic fraction in the russian cicil war, now does it?
The Bund did largely support the bourgoeais goverment of February 17 though.
>>373113
>as Jews began to join academia socialist ideals began to spread
>>375868
>>>/pol
>>375839
They'd probably support a jewish king though.
>>375861
>Please don´t change the argument.
I'm not. We're talking about jewish involvement in the russian revolution. I'm expanding the subject, not changing it.
Yes, there were jews among makhnovists and menscheviks. But that doesn't really show that jews weren't disproportionately involved in revolutionary politics. If anything, it strenghtens that argument.
>It doesn´t relly make sense that jews actively got involved with arguably the most violently antisemitic fraction in the russian cicil war, now does it?
Right, I think it's quite natural for jews to have been overwhemingly revolutionary. But there's no point in hiding that basic fact : that they were overwhemingly revolutionary.
>>375873
>They'd probably support a jewish king though.
Very doubtful, considering Israel is not a monarchy.
>>375873
>that they were overwhemingly revolutionary
No one has denied that, but this doesn't create any equivalence between the german responsibility for the third reich and some assumed jewish responsibility for the bolshiviks, which was the topic of the thread, c.f. OP.
>>375873
>I'm not. We're talking about jewish involvement in the russian revolution.
Are we? I was under the impression we where arguing wather the jews could be collectively held acountable for bolshevist crimes...
>I'm expanding the subject, not changing it.
Convenient that you do so when you stopped replying to the arguments that seem to have disproven your original arguments
>Right, I think it's quite natural for jews to have been overwhemingly revolutionary. But there's no point in hiding that basic fact : that they were overwhemingly revolutionary.
So was pretty much every other group in the former Empire, except the Kosaks, the aristocracy and perhaps the rural russian peasantry and the Germans. I´m not shure about the last two though.
>>375890
>, but this doesn't create any equivalence between the german responsibility for the third reich and some assumed jewish responsibility for the bolshiviks, which was the topic of the thread
But it does! Even if some jews were in revolutionary factions which ended up being opposed to the bolsheviks (such as the makhnovists) it doesn't detract from the fact that it's that revolutionary agitation which caused the power vacuum after the toppling of the Tsar which in caused the bolsheviks (within which jews played a prominent role) gained power.
The degree of jewish support of anti-tsarist movements was probably greater than the degree of german support of the NSDAP.
>>375901
>Are we? I was under the impression we where arguing wather the jews could be collectively held acountable for bolshevist crimes...
I already told you that I don't think so. Now we're arguing whether it's any different from holding germans accountable for the crimes of nazis.
>Convenient that you do so when you stopped replying to the arguments that seem to have disproven your original arguments
You did provide a counter example which changed my opinion. I wasn't aware that Makhno had jewish supporters. So to account for this new information, I changed my position. What should I do, ignore it and continue to stubbornly support the same position? Is this how you argue?
>So was pretty much every other group in the former Empire
Oh really? I know there were many ethnic minorities among the bolsheviks, but do you have anything to prove their level of involvement to be the same as the level of involvement of jews?
And by the way, why do you refuse to answer my question about your nationality? Are you german or no?
>>375982
>'t detract from the fact that it's that revolutionary agitation which caused the power vacuum after the toppling of the Tsar which in caused the bolsheviks
By the same logic youncould blame the holocaust on the people who drafted the treaty of versailles, or on the bankers responsible for the 1928 crash.
The blame for bolshevik atrocities lies squarely with those who committed them, and to a lesser defree with those who sat idly by, but not with those who created the situation that allowed the bolsheviks to take over against their will, this is pretty retarded.
Also, you've painted yourself into a corner now: if the social revolutionaries are to blame for the bolshevik takeover, then even greater blame falls on the germans who engineered said takeover.
In other words, your jewish guilt comes at a cost of doubling the german guilt.
>>375982
>I already told you that I don't think so. Now we're arguing whether it's any different from holding germans accountable for the crimes of nazis.
>>375562
>>375562
>>375562
>>375562
!
>You did provide a counter example which changed my opinion. I wasn't aware that Makhno had jewish supporters. So to account for this new information, I changed my position.
Jews where overwhelmingly antitsarist. Nobody denies that. What is there to argue about?
>What should I do, ignore it and continue to stubbornly support the same position? Is this how you argue?
Sometimes.
>Oh really? I know there were many ethnic minorities among the bolsheviks, but do you have anything to prove their level of involvement to be the same as the level of involvement of jews?
There, you did it again. You just said that the bolshevics theme is threw, now you return to it. Do you always argue like that?
>And by the way, why do you refuse to answer my question about your nationality? Are you german or no?
Because it is fucking irrelevant for the discussion mate. If it makes you happy: I´ve been living in Berlin for 7 years. I am not german. I am mexican.
>>376011
>By the same logic youncould blame the holocaust on the people who drafted the treaty of versailles, or on the bankers responsible for the 1928 crash.
Agreed.
Which is why attributing blame to some group for a historical event, such as attributing blame for the holocaust on the german people, is completely absurd.
If you read closely, I never claimed that the jews were responsible for bolshevism. I said they were as responsible for bolshevism as germans were responsible for nazism.
>>376049
>Which is why attributing blame to some group for a historical event, such as attributing blame for the holocaust on the german people, is completely absurd
No it isn't, as the holocaust was commited on german initiative, under german leadership and with only minimal resistance from the german people. This is not to say that any one individual german has x amount of guilt, but that germans as a nation, an ideal collective, are tainted with this guilt, and the relation of the kndividual german to his nation mist either reflect this, or be deemed irresponsible. The only way around this would be a complete rejection of the concept of a german nation by all germans, which can hardly be what you're arguing for.
>>376077
>but that germans as a nation, an ideal collective, are tainted with this guilt
If that is the case, then jews are tainted with the guilt of bolshevism.
You can't apply one rule for one group and another rule for another group.
>>376155
>>376155
>the holocaust was commited on german initiative, under german leadership and with only minimal resistance from the german people.
is true. Therefore:
>but that germans as a nation, an ideal collective, are tainted with this guilt
is true,
>the bolshevist atrocities were commited on jewish initiative, under jewish leadership and with only minimal resistance from the jewish people.
is not True. Therefore:
>but that jews as a nation, an ideal collective, are tainted with this guilt
is not true.
>>376155
No, because the bolshiviks weren't jewish to the same degree as the nazis were german, and met quite a bit of jewish resistance. Also, the crimes were not commited in the name of a collective jewish identity or nation, so the relationship between the individual jew and whatever their relation to judaism, jewry, the jews, zionism, Israel, all those facets of jewish identity may be, remains unaffected.
ITT: keks justify the genocide of Germans and the destruction of Germany because their ancestors lived in Nazi Germany or something
>>376184
>genocide of Germans and the destruction of Germany
Are literally binging up the white genocide meme? That's so 2012, and it hasn't become any less retarded since then.
>>376184
>keks justify the genocide of Germans and the destruction of Germany
Where does that happen?
Also: Which genocide?
inb4:
>muh asiatic hordes
>>376172
>is not True.
But it's true.
Many bolshevik leaders were jewish, the secret police in particular was heavily jewish. Jewish resistance was indeed minimal.
I fail to see how jews don't satisfy the criteria. Do you have any example of jews rising up in support of the tsar against the revolutionaries which I'm not aware of?
>>376181
>Also, the crimes were not commited in the name of a collective jewish identity or nation
Well obviously, communism is internationalist.
If I understand well, the reason why germans are collectively guilty of nazi crimes is because nazis claimed to represent germany. Since the jewish bolsheviks didn't claim to represent jewry, jews are not to be held collectively guilty for bolshevik crimes. Am I understanding correctly?
>>376216
>Am I understanding correctly?
Almost.
The nazis didn't just claim to represent the german nation, they claimed so believeaby.
Even if the bolsheviks had proclaimed themselves representatives of the jewish people, nobody would have bought that as both religious and zionist institutions had a much better claim to that.
The relation of identity and crime is almost inverted when you compare both cases: jewish bolsheviks were people who had abandoned their jewish identity for a universalist project, so the lesson for the jews is, if anything, to not reject their identity, but embrace it, lest they become monsters.
German nazis, on the other hand, had rejected all universal projects in the name of the identitarian Volksgemeinschaft, so the german lesson is a lesson of universalism over identity.
This is neither complicated, nor is it a double standard.
>>376216
>jews rising up in support of the tsar
How is that a reasonable demand for vindication?
>>376241
>, they claimed so believeaby.
Why? Most germans didn't vote them in. There were plenty of german anti-nazis.
>>376262
Because you're claiming that the jewish bolsheviks (and other assorted jewish revolutionaries) were met with active jewish resistance.
I just want examples.
>>376264
>Most germans didn't vote them in.
This is true of virtually all governments with a legitimate claim of representation.
>There were plenty of german anti-nazis.
Not really.
>>376216
Nazis: 100% selfidentified german leadership.
Bolshevics:>>373099
Nazism: 100% German ideology
Bolshevism: Not a jewish ideology
Nazism: no significant oposition by germans
Bolshevism: Significant oposition by jews, you said so yourselve>>375982
>I fail to see how jews don't satisfy the criteria. Do you have any example of jews rising up in support of the tsar against the revolutionaries which I'm not aware of?
What has the tsar to do with anything. As stated before, nobody denies that the jews overwhelmingly rejected the tsar. The civil war was nt a 2 party afair you know...
Either you are stupid (You always bring the same points up, even if they have been refuted) or you´re trollin, I´m outta here, it´s sleepytime anyhows.
>>376267
>and other assorted jewish revolutionaries
That's the point, the other jewish revolutionaries ended up resisting, and eventually getting crushed by the bolsheviks.
I would agree that russian jews have some sort of collective responsibility for removing one of the worst despots at the time from power. This however does not make them collectively responsibility for the despotism that putsched itself to power after that, and most obviously not in the same way responsible as the germans are for the peaceful takeover, and subsequent crimes, of the nazi regime.
>>375732
I wasn't saying any of that, I was just showing that Jews were also part of far right wing movements. they were all over the political spectrum, most of them being hard working middle class people, at least in western europe
>>376364
I don't think I was replying to you, just citing you.
>>376281
>Nazism: 100% German ideology
Define "german ideology".
>>376281
>Either you are stupid
I'm just showing the contradictions in your claim.
Anyways, good night. I guess it must be comforting to live through life with such simplistic views
>le ebil nazis
>le dindu nuffin jews
>>376397
>Makhnovists were not pro-tzarist
This is irrelevant, they were anti bolshevik, thus negating your claim to jewish responsibility for the bolshebiks.
>The nazi takeover was far from peaceful
No one needed to be beaten or killed for Hitler to become chancellor. The nazis were violent, but that's just what they did, not what they needed to do to take power.
>itt: Jews aren't behind judeo bolshevism
Come the fuck on /his/, get real.
>>376428
>This is irrelevant,
It's not irrelevent! It's central to the point!
If you're going to disregard basic logic as irrelevant then I guess we don't have much to discuss.
>No one needed to be beaten or killed for Hitler to become chancellor
What do you think happened to the SA?
>>376442
>judeo bolshevism
if you frame everything using a word invented a nazi propaganda of course your going to see jews everywhere
>>376498 Why do you insist on the tsarist thing?
fyi:
The Tsar was not overthrown by the bolsheviks.
After the february revolution there where Jews on all relevant sides: Liberals, Bolsheviks, Menshevics, Social Revolutionaries, Social Democrats, Restaurationists, Anarchists... Tsarists virtually ceased to exist as a relevant political force after the February revolution. The nly tsarists where some aristocratic emigrees. The White Army was not tsarist, it was reactionary, they mainly tried to implement a military dictatorship on all the former Empire. Of course there are no jewish Tsarists. There were no Tsarists at all, you Idiot!
>>376498
>It's central to the point!
What point? Are you claiing that unless you're a tsarist, you're responsible for the Holodomor? This is absolutely retarded.
>What do you think happened to the SA?
Nazi infighting, basically. Not so much violence to consolidate nazi rule, but violence to consolidate Hitler's position as chief nazi.
>>376555
>Why do you insist on the tsarist thing?
Because it's central to your thesis that the russian revolution and the subsequent bolshevik takeover cannot be ascribed to jews.
>>376570
>What point?
See above.
>Are you claiing that unless you're a tsarist, you're responsible for the Holodomor?
Unless you're a tsarist, you share the guilt for the russian revolution and bolshevik takeover.
Anyways I'm done with this thread, you're impossible to argue with.
>>376586
>you're impossible to argue with
Indeed, because you keep insisting on:
>Because it's central to your thesis that the russian revolution and the subsequent bolshevik takeover cannot be ascribed to jews
I for one have already stated that the role of the jews in the russian revolution canot be denied, nor can anyone hold this against them (whereas you can obviously hold the support for Hitler against the germans). Your claim, however, is that all those jews in all those rival revolutionary factions bear some responsibility for the deeds of one of those factions, a faction that denied the other factions' legitimacy. Which is utter bullshit.
>>373070
The jews were the camp Guards though so they were always comfy
>>373113
They were the Camp Guards
>>376586
>Unless you're a tsarist, you share the guilt for the russian revolution and bolshevik takeover
All of Russia except a few policemen, army officers and Kosaks are to blame for Bolshevism then.
Also:
>Muh treachurous jews didn´t support the regime that spent the last few hundered years opressing them, that lost all support by march seventeen and whose representates where eliminated in June 18 in the war that wen´t from May 1918 to 1921. Virtually nobody else supported them neither, but the jews are the only ones I blame for it...
>>375602
>Maschnowschtschina
>wschtsch
Jesus Christ, German is a horrid language
>>373049
I agree with you but this whole bullshit "go back to /pol/ if you disagree with me" attitude is fucking cancer and you should feel bad for spouting that bullshit.
>>377509
Go back to /pol/ is not a cancerous attitude, it's chemotherapy.
>>377533
it's fostering board xenophobia and an all round lower level of dialogue because it encourages people to fling insults rather than engage on an honest level
if you're an SJW type then that's fine but if you're going to be allowed to post here then the stormfags should too. Most users of 4chan view you both as equally cancerous.
>>377560
if someone claims there is a jewish conspiracy you should ask them for evidence, and if they post some you should attempt to debunk it. if they don't provide evidence, then you can mock them.
>>377533
We need to purge the marxists from this board in the same fashion then.
>>377668
this, /his/ will only be good once all the biased shills from both sides fuck off
>>377570
but but this is what happened...
>>377560
Understanding the Jewish role in history is vital, theres no wide conspiracy, this is simply how leftist Jews act because they're very political and ideologically left
Leftist Jews have an affinity for egalitarianism and they tried implementing this with Bolshevism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM
>>377862
>this is simply how leftist Jews act because they're very political and ideologically left
whoah? Leftist jews where left? fo real now? whoa!
Yet does that mean that bolshevism was jewish? or that beeing a jew automatically makes you a bolshevist? That.is.the.point.
>80-85% of Bolsheviks where jews
Read the thread, plenty of evidence that that is a myth.
>Jews tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians out of ethnic hatred
what is projection?
Again, do your fucking homework, post real sources. If you post the unfundamented opinion of someone else it does not serve as a foundation for your argument. This whole thread is about people desperatly trying to blame bolshewism on the jews. Yes there where lots of jewish bolshevics, especially at the beginning, mostly because the bolshevics where one of the fractions that was less prone to pogroms than many other groups (bolshevics still perpetrated antijewish pogros though and later on went full antisemitic purge mode). Lot´s of jews also actively oposed the bolsheviks and they where present in pretty much every faction. Nobody hasprovided contrary evidence. Supporting evidence has been suplied time and time again. Yet, the same bullshit theses are posted time and time again and source material has never been provided ITT.
It´s tiresome.
>>378034
They have their own branch of it actually
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/newleft.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_left
>Read the thread, plenty of evidence that that is a myth.
Alright I'll read that in a second
>Yes there where lots of jewish bolshevics, especially at the beginning
It 'was' a Jewish movement
>went full antisemitic purge mode
Zionists wanted to emigrate which is traitorous so they were killed, Jews were the only Zionists so they were the ones killed
>>377570
That just derails threads though. There is no reason why we should have to refute the same point thousands of times when we are trying to have a serious discussion about things.
>>378061
Your image is retarded because you are blaming 6 million Jews for the actions of 6 Jews who didn't practice Judaism.
>>377862
Solzhenitsyn was right.
>An intelligent Russian is almost always a Jew or someone with Jewish blood in his veins.
t. Lenin
He wasn't fully Jewish, but identified with the Jewish part of his ancestry and hated Russians to death.
>>378086
As it turns out leftist Jews don't practice Judaism
>Jews overwhelmingly and sometimes exclusively led the progressive communist movements
>But they don't represent all Jews
>>378061
>They have their own branch of it actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_left
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_socialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_socialism
>?
>It 'was' a Jewish movement
readthethreadreadthethreadreadthethread
>Zionists wanted to emigrate which is traitorous so they were killed, Jews were the only Zionists so they were the ones killed
Stalin has been accused of resorting to antisemitism in some of his arguments against Trotsky, who was of Jewish heritage. Those who knew Stalin, such as Khrushchev, suggest that Stalin had long harbored negative sentiments toward Jews that had manifested themselves before the 1917 Revolution.[20] As early as 1907, Stalin wrote a letter differentiating between a "Jewish faction" and a "true Russian faction" in Bolshevism.[20][21] Stalin's secretary Boris Bazhanov stated that Stalin made crude antisemitic outbursts even before Lenin's death.[20][22] It's also possible that Stalin's attitudes towards Trotsky, a Russian Jew, may have influenced his views of Jews in general. Stalin adopted antisemitic policies which were reinforced with his anti-Westernism.[23][note 1] Since antisemitism was associated with Nazi Germany and was officially condemned by the Soviet system, the Soviet Union and other communist states used the cover-term "anti-Zionism" for their antisemitic policies. Antisemitism, as historian, Orientalist and anthropologist Raphael Patai and geneticist Jennifer Patai Wing put it in their book The Myth of the Jewish Race, was "couched in the language of opposition to Zionism".[24]
again, do at least some research.
>>378097
>but identified with the Jewish part of his ancestry and hated Russians to death.
Stop puling stuff out of your ass.
>>378131
>Russians are stupid unless they have Jewish blood
He himself said that.
>>378142
>Russians are stupid unless they have Jewish blood
>He himself said that.
Yeah. awesome source bro.
>>378109
Jew's have the "New Left", I shouldn't have linked "Jewish Left" but specifically I want to draw attention to the "New Left"
>"It had no consistent doctrine and embraced various ideologies, from the Maoist interpretation of Marxism to outright anarchism. The Jewish aspect of the movement was twofold: a disproportionate participation of Jews in the leadership and sometimes also in the ranks ..."
Take for example the Black Right's movement, just for simplicities' sake wikipedia also has a "See also: African-American–Jewish relations". They're disproportionately involved in this "New Left" to the extent that it's hardly comparable to the other races especially considering how small of a population Jews are in the Western world.
>2.2% of the U.S Pop.
>15% of Senators
>7.5% of the House of Reps
>13/15 are Democrat, 1 (Bernie) is Independent Socialist, and 1 (Lieberman) is Independent Democrat
>31/33 Reps are Democrat, 2 Republican
>9% of Congress and rising throughout the years
>38% of the Supreme court, all pull SCOTUS to the left
>>378142
I am tired of this sort of unfundamented bullshit. Have fun in the eco chamber.
>>375546
>every argument against my outlandish claims are conspiracies
>>375546
>>378175
It's not incorrect that he "heard it was 6 million"
That number had a period of high recurrence which I'll follow up with showing (one picture per post limit...)
>>378186
It's shitty .jpg's but nonetheless.
>>373580
Jews believe they have an obligation to change the world according to their own visions of the future. The problem with this, is that the vision of the future justify any measure at changing the world, no matter how great the atrocity. That was the mentality behind dekulakization, which is an uniquely Jewish crime, more than any other committed by the Soviet Union. Kulaks were targeted because Jews hated them, just like they have always hated small rural landowners (see how they also hate rednecks in the United States). Dekulakization killed millions of people in the name of a future utopia that never came, but because they still cling to a dream of a perfect future, they still see themselves as justified in taking any actions that can direct the world towards it, and never take responsability for their crimes.
>>378166
OK, so the New Left is related how exactly to Bolshevism? Except for, you know, it´s thorough critique of it?
Ever bothered checking other countries than the US? Also, are you really trying to convince me that the fucking US Democrats are Left wing? I´ll give you Sanders, who is a moderate socialist, but he has also just recently become a democrat.
Also: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/newleft.html nice source brah...
What does "African-American–Jewish relations" have to do with Russian Bolshevists?
>That is what this thread is about
>>378191
The big one with sources for each news article, note the date on them as well
The 6 million number is rather significant in their religious prophecies known as "TaShaVu"
>>378167
>>378155
Albert S. Lindemann: Anti-Semitism Before the Holocaust, page 81
Chris E. Stout: The Psychology of Terrorism: A public understanding, page 89
Jonas E. Alexis: Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism: A History of Conflict Between Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism from the Early Church to Our Modern Time, page 353
Robert Service: Lenin: A Biography, page 29
Have fun.
>>373829
Or maybe they were treated like crap because they had such a large presence in radical movements?
German and Hungarian Jews were assimilated, they didn't suffer from widespread anti-semitism. Actual anti-semites in Germany and Hungary before WWI were as marginal as anti-semites in contemporary America.
It was the huge Jewish participation in revolutionary movements at the end of war, which Germans and Hungarians saw as treason, that motivated the rise of anti-semitism. They were not wrong, imagine if you live your entire life with a neighbor who just seens like a normal American, and one day your country is defeated at a war, the government collapses and instead of helping rebuilding it, he joins a revolutionary movement formed by his ethnic cousins which aims to take absolute power in the name of a foreign ideology which has just murdered hundreds of thousands in another country.
What would you really think about such people? Of course, that doesn't justify murdering them, most Jews didn't take part in the German Revolution or the Hungarian Red Terror, but enough did, and enough did nothing to stop it, to create the climate where anti-semitism could grow.
>>378199
The New Left is clearly along the same line as Bolshevism, Communism, Egalitarianism, Proletariat rights, Civil Rights, Black and Minority rights etc...
And in modern times the "New Left" is fixated upon the Black Lives Matter movement and Syrian refugees. I don't want to derail and make the discussion about this but providing it for supplementary information
If the Jewish virtual library source is invalid could you elaborate on that, perhaps I could oblige with a better one if that's the case.
>What does "African-American–Jewish relations" have to do with Russian Bolshevists?
I brought it up as more supplementary and contextual information to show the "Jewish Left" and how with all of this considered, Jews and Bolshevism are deeply ingrained and this is historically significant
I'll post a quotation from Winston Churchill as more supplementary information as well.
>>378199
>>378237
ttp://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/WSCwrote1920.html
By the Rt. Hon. Winston S. Churchill.
>Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.
>In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish efforts rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide revolutionary conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster has ably shown, a definite recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworlds of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of the enormous empire. There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creating of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistic Jews.
>>378226
>German Jews didn´t suffer from widespread antisemitism
-_-
>>378256
>before WW1
Hi Mr. Illiterate Retard.
>>378202
To finalize the information of the recurring "6 million" number of the 1890's to 1930's (before the 1940's)
Perhaps this explains the number, by which I am directly insinuating that unless these news sources have credible information supporting the precise figure, that they chose the number "6 million" for a specific reason which has a deep meaning to them.
>>378251
Churchill is a filthy nazi Hitler fanboy who should go back to /pol/.
>>378206
>Albert S. Lindemann: Anti-Semitism Before the Holocaust, page 81
except that it doesn´t say that. It´s fucking online. man, this is annoying.
>>378256
That's Weimar Republic, Antisemitism and the National Socialists weren't until at least a few years later when the party was founded (they didn't have a rise to power until 1925 however)
>>378268
Are you schizo per chance?
>>378256
Not before the events of the German Revolution.
And the problem with this thread is that it fails to recognize the huge divide that exists within the Jewish community. Religious, and even non-religious Zionist Jews, are not the same political "tribe" as secular Jewish intellectuals. Winston Churchill identified this divide almost 100 years ago, and that's still relevant, specially as we see secular Jews in the West turning to anti-Zionism, which confuses most people.
Religious Jews and Zionist Jews are not accountable to the crimes of Bolshevism, they had no part in it and were actually some of it's victims. But Secular Jews are responsible and they should admit that some of the policies they defended in the past led to huge suffering and destruction in large parts of the world. Many American Jews are descendants of Russian Jews who left the Soviet Union once it didn't catered to their interests anymore, instead of promoting Russophobia in the Western media, they should apologize to the Russian people.
>>378266
Ehm, yeah, before WWI.
Ever heard about the international antijewish Congres or Fritsch or Böckel? There were no Pogroms but lots of antisemitism in the 2. Reich.
>>378278
Are you blind or just retarded?
>>378325
That's some irrelevant political movements, not widespread anti-semitism. That's like saying American Jews suffer from anti-semitism because of /pol/ (or Pat Buchanan).
>>378325
Could you substantiate through some means the "lots of antisemitism"
The 'Jew-denial' posters seem to have alt+f4'd once evidence started getting posted. Apologies for the need to post so many but that's what it takes to discuss this.
>>378237
So in conclusion you brought up lots of "suplementary information". What do you have to say about the actual subject?
Also, not wanting to deviate, but seriously, this?
>The New Left is clearly along the same line as Bolshevism, Communism, Egalitarianism, Proletariat rights, Civil Rights, Black and Minority rights etc...
"The New Right is clearly along the same line as Neoliberalism, Fascism, islamic fundamentalism, ecological conservativism, Libertarianism, Shareholder rights etc..." would be just as ridiculous a statement. The fact that they are all right wing ideologies does not mean that they are along the same lines.
>>378362
I´ll try to find an online source. Please be patient.
>>375852
I'm glad you posted this so I don't have to.
>>373102
There was a bunch of baptised jews in the white movement. On the other hands jews weren't allowed into the white army at least not into Dinikin's one.
>>378374
>What do you have to say about the actual subject?
The first sentence of the thread
>>Jews were a huge part of the Bolshevik movement, they had a huge influential in the course of the October Revolution and the Russian Civil War.
This is important for history and you seem to be ignorant on this particular matter.
>>The New Left is clearly along the same line as ...
It's my belief that Communism/Bolshevism was to inspire the Proletariat and working class to revolution and to embrace egalitarian and socialist policies in the hopes of a better society (in the minds of those pursuing the ideology)
>"The New Right is clearly along the same line as Neoliberalism, Fascism, islamic fundamentalism ...
You're making a false equation unless you want to substantiate that with evidence. You seem to be attempting to argue that this information is superfluous and unimportant but it has yet to be proven such and the information of over-representation of Jews in "progressive" movements is voluminous
>>378374
Not him, but all those things can be traced to a single root: the French revolution.
On the the other hand, libertarianism, islamic fundamentalism and fascism don't have a shared origin.
I don't believe that modern peoples should be guilty for ancestral crimes.
Germans, Jews, anybody.
It is fucking dumb and the calling card for people who cover their racism with "oh we are the oppressed people" to excuse their beliefs.
>>373120
That's the thing. As soon as Stalin went full on repressive the jews were purged from the inner circle of the party.
You might be a bit too far into conspiracy land if you want the Jews to apologize for Stalin.
>>378362
>>378382
I am still searching for an online source in english. meanwhile, let me explain in detail what I ment:
Basically from the beginning of the formation of german national consciousness antisemitism was on the rise in germany. Many germans, especially Student´s favoured a "völkische" Bild of "germaness". The term völkisch is hard to translate. It has a strong ethnic conotation and the conection of a people to it´s soil is fundamental. This was necesary, because the germans where an extremely heterogenous group in almost all aspects (linguistic, religious, cultural, economic) and this was the lowest common denominator. The jews were seen as not having the conection to the soil the germans had. With the rise of industrialization many romantics started to blame the "oportunistic jews without connection to the soil" for tthe negative aspects conected to it. The revolution of 1848 basically started with the Burning of selected books, notably several works advocating for the emancipation of jews or against antisemitism. There were several pogroms of patriotic germans against jews. After the foundation of the 2. Reich antisemitism was spreading, especially to the working classes, lot´s of jewish asociations where founded in this time, cause lot´s of german asociations (turnerbünde, Schützenvereine, political partys) prohibited access of jews. Antisemitism was subsequently racialized, by germans in austria and the reich, based on the völkisch Theories. This racialization of antisemitism was what made the nazi form of modern racial antisemitism possible.
>>374264
>Have any of you heard about the Auschwitz nurse? That supposedly damaged auschwitz demographics by counting all circumcised men as jewish?
Who else would be circumcised at that time?
>>378405
>Not him, but all those things can be traced to a single root: the French revolution.
so can Neoliberalism, ecological conservativism, Libertarianism, Shareholder rights
Fascism, islamic fundamentalism can be seen as a reaction to it. I don´t see your point.
>>378493
What do you mean by neoliberalism? Friedman's monetarist policies? It seems to me like it's a buzzword marxists love throwing around.
>>372984
They may have been Jewish by ancestry but supporting Bolshevism would mean they did not identify with the Jewish faith or people. Supporting an ideology that would suppress religion and desire to destroy nationalism would be against any desire coming from Judaism. They were commies who were born in a Jewish family not Jewish Communist.
>>378471
I understand what you're saying about the rise of anti-semitism of the time period, but I can't find anything showing a severe backlash against Jews such as a pogrom in Germany before Kristalnacht. They were in occurrence in Russia and other parts of Europe.
To get more specific on how this relates to the German Revolution of 1918, I don't think this was done for Jewish-relation's purposes but for the communist agenda of proletariat usurpation and uprising.
Also I don't think the Jews were scapegoated as being not heterogeneous with the native populace, but because of their perceived over-representation in key areas of society such as media and perhaps finance (as is tradition).
And I think the major dominant factor of antisemitism in the 1920's was from the society's perception of the Weimar Republic's degeneracy amplified by the National Socialist party drawing attention to that aspect and etcetera.
>>378404
>Jews were a huge part of the Bolshevik movement, they had a huge influential in the course of the October Revolution and the Russian Civil War.
I do not deny this.
The rest of the post is the problem.
>It's my belief that Communism/Bolshevism was to inspire the Proletariat and working class to revolution and to embrace egalitarian and socialist policies in the hopes of a better society (in the minds of those pursuing the ideology)
Guess who deconstructed the terminology of Proletariate and working class? Ever read Horkheimer, Foucault, Adorno?
>You seem to be attempting to argue that this information is superfluous and unimportant
I am trying to convey that the ideologies you cited are incredibly dissimilar. Except that most of them are labeled as "left" by some people they have literally nothing in common. I don´t get your point. And I still don´t get why we are talking about these movements at all.
>>378511
The point of my post was to throw around random terminology and claiming that they were "along the same lines" on acount of beeing labeled as right wing.
>>378548
I understand what you're saying about the rise of anti-semitism of the time period, but I can't find anything showing a severe backlash against Jews such as a pogrom in Germany before Kristalnacht. They were in occurrence in Russia and other parts of Europe.
Yeah, to claim that eastern style Antisemitism existed in Germany during the 2.reich would be madness. We seem to have had a bit of a misunderstanding.
>>378579
Again I'm not the guy that threw those words around originally, but you could clearly see their shared pattern.
>identitarian group thinking (blacks vs whites, men vs women, proletariat vs capitalists)
>oppression ideology where the supposedly oppressed ones are always somehow the virtuous party
>theories about historical inevitability
>ad hominem: the ideology ("You are white, you can't say shit about black people")
>>378574
Horkheimer seems to be perfectly in line with communism/marxism/egalitarianism and working-class usurpation of the status quo
If he "deconstructed" the marxist terminology then it doesn't appear he was against it.
Adorno is same as above, but Foucault seems to be unrelated in what I read off wikipedia, I don't see how he's relevant in this regard.
>I am trying to convey that the ideologies you cited are incredibly dissimilar
This is fucking absurd, we really can't continue discussing this when we're not even in the same plane of existence and we'll never compromise. I see you as being inconceivably ignorant and you I'm sure likewise.
Picture is essentially my conclusion, no it's not a conspiracy. It's a belief in biological predispositions with significant cultural and environmental influence which is the "leftist jewish" essence and generally the various forms of leftism have a significant Jewish component which strives for egalitarianism and the likes.
>>378614
>>identitarian group thinking (blacks vs whites, men vs women, proletariat vs capitalists)
If you rephrase and call it antagonism I might actually agree that this is true for most examples he cited. Not for a large chunck of the civil rights movement though.
>>oppression ideology where the supposedly oppressed ones are always somehow the virtuous party
Def. not true for New Left, Communism (in the marxian sense)
>>theories about historical inevitability
only Bolshevism and Communism
>>ad hominem: the ideology ("You are white, you can't say shit about black people")
Only true about Bolshevism, some segment of minority rights
Glad we talked about it.
>>378634
>"leftist jewish" essence
Breh...
Also, have you ever read anything by Horkheimer or Adorno, or are you just talking out of your ass?
>>378707
I don't indulge myself in cultural marxism
>>378634
>It's a belief in biological predispositions with significant cultural and environmental influence which is the "leftist jewish" essence and generally the various forms of leftism have a significant Jewish component which strives for egalitarianism and the likes.
It is not a conspiracy. But still they all wanna destroy white people caus of " biological predispositions with significant cultural and environmental influence". Got it. It´s the first time that i have argued with a racial antisemite that denied the tendency of the jewish race to conspire. You guys seem to be evolving.
>>378664
>Freeman and slave, patrician and plebeian, lord and serf, guildmaster and journeyman, in a word, oppressor and oppressed, stood in constant opposition to one another, carried on an uninterrupted, now hidden, now open fight, that each time ended, either in the revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes.
>Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms, and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.
Direct quotes from Marx.
>only Bolshevism and Communism
Not at all. The entire IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR meme stems from this Hegelo-Marxian nonsense the modern leftists like to employ. That some societal change (be it gay rights, abortion rights, insert whatever you wish) is inevitable and it's pointless to resist it.
>>378719
Inmother words, everything you say about 'cultural marxism' is entirely unsubstantiated, and either conjecture on your own part, or reurgitated bits of hearsay. Thanks for clearing this up, I guess.
>>378725
They don't conspire on the large scale, there is no grand overarching conspiracy.
But they have a tendency (more than average to a significant degree) to engage in nepotism which places their kinfolk in good positions. They're more likely to be in the media and finances than gentiles and their behavior can be probabilistically predicted.
If you're interested in this sort of "academic" "antisemitism" (I don't hate Jews, it's not an applicable word) then Kevin MacDonald has done seminal work on the subject.
He got tenure at some California College and started writing on his findings of Jews.
Also the other aspect is that of the Jews on the right, the Talmud has rather pernicious aspects in regards to non-jews and they harbor disdain for the destruction of the Second Temple and consequently their religion (until the Talmud arose to create Talmudic Judaism)
>>378762
https://youtu.be/09Ak5Pn-T1Y?t=15 - Cultural Marxism
I find it substantiated, you don't.
That's pretty much the extent of this argument.
>>378767
I don't know if your picture is supposed to be related but Rockefellers are not Jews, they're an American banking family of Anglo-German protestant descent. Now Rotschilds are a different story obviously, but using the Rockefellers as a proof of some Jewish dominance in the financial sector is utter horseshit.
>>378786
Yes, but your source is a youtube video (then again, maybe it's multiple youtube videos?), my sources are the actual texts of 'cultural marxists'.
You claim to know what they're about without having tried to verify what you heard about tgem; you're a paradigmatic case of a dumbass.
>>378790
>Rockefellers are not Jews
Yes that is relevant. It's a matter of probability, and not all of the individuals that ascribe to the notion are all characterized as the same, but overwhelmingly they're Jewish.
If you could watch the first 50 seconds of William Pierce talking about the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjxyRZNBh2M
>It is not necessary for all of the newspaper owners and all of the telivion station owners to be Jews to slavishly follow the party line ...
This is applied that because Jews have a dominance in this area, you don't need an absolute rule of them, but only to a significant degree that they are the seed that spreads the ideology to the rest of the people **who will ultimately have to ascribe to their dogma for it to work**. So yes you're going to have non-jews there, but probabilistically they are a minority just as Jews are, being 2% of the U.S population and 0.2% of the European population
>>378142
He did not know he had jewish blood though, he thought he was a russian
>>378834
It's one, the source isn't *the video* it's what he says and the information presented *in* the video.
It is somewhat long at 15 minutes but it's concise enough for disseminating the underlying information about it.
https://archive.today/YzkIS - Dead Cultural Marxism (Frankfurt School) wikipedia page.
I'm sure you're aware of this "conspiracy theory". But the sexual revolution and other such "liberating" movements of the left are wholly in line with this Jewish movement and their usurpation of the status quo
>>378880
>But the sexual revolution and other such "liberating" movements of the left are wholly in line with this Jewish movement and their usurpation of the status quo
How would you even know that, given that your understanding of what their 'line' is hardly exists at all?
I'm not even going to bother trying to educate you on how and why you're mistaken, because it is fairly obvious that you're not interested in actually understanding anything, you're here to propagate a narrative. So I am going to be a good fellow conspiracy theorist and associate your activities on this board with pic related.
>>378936
>Jews had a dominant hand in pornography
Jews understand the power that sex carries, sexual liberation subverts the morals of society and destabilizes it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/31/world/mideast-turmoil-fighting-israeli-troops-tighten-grip-bush-says-arafat-must-more.html?pagewanted=all
>among numerous indignities Palestinians accused Israeli forces of capturing a television station and using it to broadcast pornography.
>A United States consulate employee who was in Ramallah confirmed that the programs were on the air.
Jews clearly understand subversion, it's the doctrine of their Mossad after all. The evidence and discussion required to fully vet this is not doable so again, as repeated. We will never find a compromise because we're polar opposite.
>Image of some /pol/c
Is the Soviet Union the worst thing to happen in human history?
Is there any way of getting rid of Russia and the scourge of collectivism at this point?
>>379008
None of the things you say have anything to do with the Frankfurt School, you've simply changed the topic to pornography for some reason, which I quite frankly don't care for. If that's going to be your prefered level of discourse,
>Well I'd better not go on /his/ ever then eh. Clearly I am wrong
Exactly.
another /hist/ thread that derailed into random /pol/ shitposting about joowish woorld doomination
>>379046
Russia isn't shit because of the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union happened in Russia because Russia is shit.
>>375732
>Even if he doesn't self-identify as a jew? Why would any jew feel responsible for the deeds of someone who didn't care for being jewish in any sense of the word?
Why are all whites responsible for racism leading to indiscriminate affirmative action? Are you saying there isn't a double standard here? Jews can't be held accountable for anything, while whites are for everything. It has been Jewish intellectuals doing the accounting. Why don't you apply this to post-modern "intellectuals," as well?
Did this all happen on accident? Are you saying the settlement house movement of the early 20th century wasn't subversion? Are you saying the Greenwhich Village "intellectuals" (mostly Jewish) aren't responsible for our cultural decline? Is there any collective guilt for them, or do they completely control who is guilty or not via their media—which is objectively owned by Jews, by the way.
Just a little tidbit for you: the plaque on the Statue of Liberty wasn't always there."Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore." was written by Emma Lazarus and placed in 1903. Israel Zangwill was the one who said America was a "melting pot," as well. You are delusional, and your selective use of history won't work here.
>>379325
>Why are all whites responsible for racism
I never said they were
>leading to indiscriminate affirmative action?
I doubt that that's the reasoning behind it
>while whites are [held responsible] for everything
I for one don't homd anyone responsible for anything because of the colour of their skin.
>Are you saying the settlement house movement of the early 20th century wasn't subversion?
I don't know what that is but it doesn't sound subversive.
>Are you saying the Greenwhich Village "intellectuals" (mostly Jewish) aren't responsible for our cultural decline?
I'd say capitalism has tendencies that are extremely destructive to cultural traditions, without needing a cabal of intellectuals.
>and then some jewess wrote something nice on a statue
How horrifying.
And what relation does any of this have with the soviet purges of the early 30s, am I witnessing some sort of antisemitic tourette seizure?
>>378872
He did know that.
>>379393
[citation needed]
>>379325
Let me add to this and say, look at Israel. That's how Jews really feel about multiculturalism. They say one thing and do another. They open our gates and close theirs.
This was a nineteenth century history book:
>The American, the ideal man, is of the white race, of Northern European background, Protestant, self-made, and if not a farmer at least retaining the virtues of his Yeoman ancestors. As race becomes an increasingly significant way to think about human beings, the English are exalted to a position just below the Americans.... Essentially, racially, they are superior.... Yet the American population is not identical with the English because the American environment sieved the English population. The weak would not come, and only the
pure of heart could survive. The American is a distilled Englishman. (Elson, 1964: page 340)
As you can see WASP dominance was complete. It wasn't until subversive intellectuals took over universities in the 1920s and 30s that this changed.
After World War II ended even the CIA (originally Office of Strategic Services) was corrupted and actively subverting WASP power:
>Convinced of America's liberal cosmopolitan virtue, many American literary intellectuals rallied behind their government's cold war anticommunism. The culmination of this process was the formation ofthe American Committee for
Cultural Freedom (ACCF) in 1951, a highly influential organization backed by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which counted many
New York Intellectuals (especially from the Partisan Review clique) as members (Eric Kaufmann, The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America: page 165).
You are delusional if you think WASP power declined on its own.
>>379479
WASPs and generally Anglos were the ones that promoted Jews from day 1.
Christian zionism, completely unheard of in Europe, can be traced down to the New England Puritans.
Balfour declaration was signed by the Brits.
And then you have the horseshit that is British Israelism. Some Anglos loved Jews so much that they actually started believing that they themselves are Jewish.
>>379479
You're completely on autopilot right now, aren't you? I mean you're literally oblivious to the fact that you've stopped being on topic several posts ago, as you're seemingly posting whichever bit of remembered rethoric comes to mind.
I don't know why I'm still talkinng to you, as you're no longer trying to argue a specific point, but instead trying to establish your silly narrative in tje mlst hamfisted way imaginable.
>here, some book said this
>and then some jew said something to the contrary and people agreed with that
>therefore, the jews are o blame for...uh
...ok, I have no idea what your final accusation really is turning out to be, but I don't think I care, other than for entertainment value.
>>379392
>I'd say capitalism has tendencies that are extremely destructive to cultural traditions, without needing a cabal of intellectuals.
We were never Capitalists. That's just another lie. We were a small yeoman community. We always had Jewish business interests pushing for deregulation and mass immigration as early as the early-nineteenth century. It was just Catholics instead of Mexicans.
>>379504
>WASPs and generally Anglos were the ones that promoted Jews from day 1.
I don't deny that.
>Elite Protestants generally "led" their flock in ideological terms toward a more liberal and egalitarian position on the dominant ethnicity issue. This position of moral leadership is also postulated to have opened up a value gap between clergy and laity. Jeffrey K. Hadden's The Gathering Storm in the Churches, which surveyed thousands of Protestant clergy and laity in the late 1960s, confirmed this gap as a matter of statistical fact. Consider the issue of white Protestant racial attitudes: 33 percent of lay Protestants supported clerical and student involvement in the civil rights issue as against 64 percent of Protestant clergy; 89 percent of lay Protestants attributed blacks' lack of success to blacks themselves, as compared to just
35 percent of clerics (Eric Kaufmann, The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America: page 145).
Jews always subvert the elite, and they never have the support of the masses. The Bolshevik Revolution was the same way. Communism was Jewish, there is no denying that. Look at the Communist Hungarian government, for Christ's sake.
