Discussion about the history of Satanism.
Is modern Satanism just a watered down mix of egoism and contrarianism with Satan slapped on the front for extra edge points?
>>327252
ego/hedonism, yes
I would like to know of the history as well, before it became the edge lords wet dream.
>>327281
It has always been an edgelord thing
Satanism is denial of God or direct opposition to God.
Also, it exalts material indulgence and sense pleasure which are maya and fake impermanent material world things and does not liberate the soul.
>>327252
>Is modern Satanism just a watered down mix of egoism and contrarianism with Satan slapped on the front for extra edge points?
That's because LaVeyan satanism has become the representative for it.
There are actual real theistic satanist though. Like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_the_Black_Light
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles
>>327317
sounds like edgelordism tbqhf
>>327252
In some cases; other folks do try to integrate the grimoire tradition.
>>327281
>>327288
That's a questionable assertion. I don't know that many grimoires at all used Satan, though there's a long standing tradition of attributing the entities of the Lemegeton as demons from the pit, though their invokations reference Christ, YHVH, and before that it was all Greek oriented material rather than Christian, I imagine the switch was to fly under the radar.
So you guys probably know LaVey, Aquino broke away from him and asserted a literal prince of darkness, under the banner of the Egyptian Set. I respect the guy, he's well educated and qualified and generally knows what he's on about with the material.
I've got his "Church of Satan" book over in the occult thread under the LHP file that chronicles the split between him and LaVey and the founding of the Church of Satan, etc.
After that the next group to really come into prominence was David Myatt's O9A, and there are a few records of correspondence between Long (Myatt's pseudonym, though Myatt wasn't the only one using it) and Aquino. Myatt's a 'true believer' too, or at least was at the time, he went on to a lot of different things. O9A advocates human sacrifice, etc., under the guise of culling.
Everything splits. Now we have multiple inheritors to all of the above along with new cats on down the line to Koetting.
For a taste of what most people in history were wigged out about as "Satanism" but is really just the grimoire tradition in and around Lemegeton, the grimoires folder is also in the library over in the occultism thread.
>>327246
Is there any historical precedent for true theistic satanism, or was that just baseless fearmongering by witch hunters?
>>327337
this tbrqfh (to be really quite fucking honest)
None edgelord satanism when?
>>327299
We are trying to have a history discussion here, shut up with your cult propaganda.
Anyway I think until the 1900s no one literally worshipped Satan but it's something religious institutions accused each other of to descredit each other. You could accuse mainstream Christians of worshipping Satan under the false name of "God the father" and explain how your group has it correct, medevil Gnostic did this. Luther accused the Catholics of being Satanists. And the Catholics accused Pagans of being Satanists.
Basically Satanism is a boogieman made up by religious people to strawman the opposition but idiots like this poster think it's a real thing. It also gets confusing because Catholics would take the names of spirits and Gods from other religions and say they were actually demons.
Lavey Satanism is basically borrowing some Nietzsche's ideas with halloween shock value. It is highly egotistical but it's done in a very well made way, sort of like Stirnenian egoism. It's actually a pretty based religion once you get past the stupid halloween gimmicks.
Theistic Satanism which literally worships Satan does exist but it's highly unorganized, there is no official documents, church, or way to get in contact with them. There's a lot of rumors that Order of the 9 Angels does literal human sacrifice and runs a criminal ring. But it could all be bullshit rumors.
>>327345
Tiny.
Closest we get is this, Grimorium Verum, 1700's, Rome:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimorium_Verum
It's the origin of pic related. And again, in the library. Moreover, there's another whose name escapes me but has a page with all sorts of signatures from supposed high ranking demons.
>>327246
OPs pic is a painting from a schizo who rip'd himself before LaVeyan Satanism
>>327372
Not a grimoire, single document:
>Unknown. "Devil's pact, allegedly signed by Father Urbain Grandier of Loudun, countersigned by Lucifer, Beelzebub, Satan, Elimi, Leviathan, Astaroth, and Baalbarith." c. 1634.
It started in Alexandria when the story of Christ was catching traction and the Gnostic Jews formed a perverted version with their dark materials.
>>327397
This is also how Islam started fyi
>>327358
Pretty accurate statement.
Satan is the illusive energy and also exaltation of material objects as if they hold absolute value.
If you can recognize God in your soul then you won't suffer in the material world.
A lot more to it than just that.
Actually God the Father is the God of Jesus, so if their is any false god it is in OT as Yhwh and Elohim.
Some Catholics are satanists because they don't follow the Spirit of the vows and only care for the process of confession and church going, they don't have faith, they only care for appearances.
No church holds Jesus exclusive.
>>327397
>Gnostic Jews
Does such a thing exist? I'm going to need a source on that.
>>327351
>None edgelord satanism when?
That's not possible.
>>327246
Satan is a metaphor for the Catholic Church
Prove me wrong
>>327497
You're a faggot
Prove me wrong
>>327503
Im not a bundle of sticks
That wasn't that hard
>>327518
Liar. I can hear your sticks hitting the keyboard from where I stand. Which must mean that you're not just a faggot, but a huge one.
>>327246
It is all based on practices of black magic that the Jews picked up from Egypt when they were enslaved there. They would often worship the gods of the Egyptians. They found commonalities between Egyptian deities and Canaanite deities, and picked up some of the practices from there. Then, they picked up some practices from Babylonian religion. The worship of Baal, Moloch, and Remphan (which is a repurposing and renaming of an Egyptian god that is synonymous with Saturn which has Satanic context) is something that has always been throughout Jewish history. Baal, whose name is also Bael and Beelzebub is of chief importance because it was a god that was derived from the god Hadad which is a Semitic version of Zeus who is the son of Saturn. Baal, Hadad, Zeus, and Jupiter are one in the same - the chief demon who we call Satan. Moloch seems to be a lesser agent, subordinate to Baelzebub. Moloch and Thoth are one in the same, and he is the god of knowledge. Moloch is more of a name denoting rank rather than anything else. Moloch/Thoth is the archdemon messenger who intercedes on behalf of Baelzebub to his devoted and disseminates information to those ignorant of his demonic nature.
The practice of these deities was prevalent throughout the Jewish homeland. It infiltrated a Rabbinic sect known as the Pharisees in the time period that constitutes the gap between the Old and New Testaments. The Pharisees were given, by Moloch/Thoth the oral teachings that would be written down after the death of Jesus and called the Babylonian Talmud. So, upon the rejection of Jesus, the Pharisees created a new religion based on the worship of Baelzebub through the teachings of the Moloch Thoth.
>>327411
No one cares about your bullshit religious reasoning
This is a history board not theism
>>327573
holy shit. Literally everything in your post is unsourced LIES.
We are trying to discuss history here and you are making a fucking rant about how the Jews worship Satan and Jesus saves us from the Hebrew Devil!!
>>327596
Instead of crying about it, why don't you try to prove me wrong? You are correct that it is not sourced, as I don't have time to put together a bibliography for a 4chan post. But if you wish to cling to your feelings rather than history, you're free to go ahead.
Do you think I arrived at those conclusions over night? I used to be a full Neocon Zionist type, and still I have nothing against the Jews. I have nothing against Israel. I used to have nothing against Judaism as a religion, until I uncovered some of these startling facts. I read the Talmud and I read about the origins of it, and I learned that modern Orthodox Judaism sees the Torah as little more than fables and the Talmud as the doctrinal backbone of Judaism. Following the Talmud back in time, back to its prehistory, when it was the oral Talmud, you see that the people who held these oral teachings were the Pharisees. The Pharisees were a faction of Rabbis that were given the oral Talmud when they were led to the base of a mountain by "angels" who gave them the revelations and didn't let them talk to God directly. Going back in time, still, through Jewish history, you see an alternate set of practices and beliefs who's presence is detectable in Jewish mysticism. These alternate set of beliefs and practices were acquired in the lands that the Israelites stayed.
>>327632
And which materials in the mystical Hekhalot and Merkava mysticism have you identified as having these 'alternate practices' outside of Hebrew elaboration?
>>327641
Oh shit, everybody run, Thoth is here. There is a tripfag on /x/ that goes by Thoth and I won't argue with him, and I won't argue with you. I don't argue with demons or those who give themselves the same names as demons.
All I will do is rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God. It is Jesus Christ who died on the cross for my sins, and you cannot make me stumble in my faith, for He protects me.
Abandoning thread. I'm not going to fall into your occult shit. I will not be tricked by you.
>>327632
You opened your first message with "black magic" your next post is about "talking to angels"
This is insanity. Than you are saying you don't need have the burden of proof when you are saying Egyptian black-magic is totally a real thing? LOL
In a historical discussion we don't care who's God is realy and who's isn't we care about what people beleived and did. This is why /pol/'s christ-fags can never discuss history, anything that doesn't fit into the narratation that the Jews are evil and Jesus is lord makes them foam at the mouth.
Nigger I don't care if Satan himself wrote the Torah, the New Testament, the Quaran, the Vedas, and than took a dump in your mouth.
There is basically zero historical evidence that Satan was ever worshiped until the 1900s. Every mention of Satan worship has been a witch-hunt used to describe a rival faction. This a tradition losers like you keep alive. Ever heard of the Satanic Panic in the 80s? Basically a bunch of loser Christians go around accusing anyone they don't like of being Satanists. It was a huge scam that allowed bullshit-artists to sell a ton of books about how 'spot Satanists'.
Like I said until the 1900s there have been no Satan worshippers in a formal sense. Lavey Satanism was the first thing and Satan is only a metaphor in that. Several other forms of Satanism spun off from that. We also got Alster Crowley who believed in worshipping several different entities, Satan being one of them, but his cult never lasted beyound his life-time.
>>327662
Autism like this actually exists?
>>327692
I dunno man whoever put together Grimorium Verum seemed pretty goddamn formal, but I'll agree Lucifer was not the end all-be all of the text and certainly didn't carry any sort of cult or association along with it, remaining mostly in obscurity until Waite's Black and Ceremonial Magic referenced it, which was indeed like 1909/1911.
>>327692
>Thelema never lasted beyond Crowley's life-time
Oh boy.
>Like I said until the 1900s there have been no Satan worshippers in a formal sense.
This is like saying that because nobody was a Protestant until the Reformation (except for Hus and pals) that means that Christ was never worshiped until the Reformation.
Satan worship has been around for a long time, the idea of him has just developed over that time into the idea of Satan that we have today. His name used to be Beelzebub, and before that Baal. The deity itself evolved over time, as all religions do, but the deity is the same deity. Even the Baphomet statue that is now used as the symbol of Satan by his followers is a product of a man who renamed himself Levi who was a practitioner of occult, Jewish mysticism.
When Christians study their own religion, they forget about a whole other hemisphere of their religion that encompasses Satan/Baphomet/Baelzebub. He is real and he is a part of my religion. I believe in Satan. I just don't follow the teachings of Satan. There are those who believe in God and follow the teachings of Satan. My religion is the Jewish religion, just the Messianic continuation of the older faith. All of this is intertwined and interconnected. So before you go calling me a butthurt Christian /pol/lack, why don't you get a better grasp of the facts?
>>327734
>Baal
Baal is a title. It's not a name. It's given to a fucking rain God and later the Christian God.
No Baal worshipers in Babylon thought their deity had anything to do with the Jewish entity. You are proving my point. If a Christian is scared of another religion he will accuse them of being Satan worshippers. You are scared of the Jews so you call them Satan worshippers. You are also making blatant lies about how ancient cultures perceived themself in history.
>I believe in Satan.
That explains it, we have an idiot here. Just be sure to check under your bed.
>>327849
>LOL if you believe in GOD your argument is invalid
>le reddit face
>>327734
>>327692
Also, Thelema lasted at least until now, I'm a practitioner, and all of his orders are still active.
Moreover, if you can point me to a document of his that's an instruction on the worship of Satan, I'd like to see it. He makes vague reference to it but there's no actual instruction like there is tons of other material. He pops up in a couple orations and formulae, but is never seemingly venerated like Babalon, Nuit, Hadit, Ra-Hoor-Khuit, Adonai, etc., etc., etc.
>>327913
Oh, I assumed he believed in a literal Satan.
Do Thelematics believe there are anthropomorphized spirits that they can interact with? Or are things like Nuit, Hadit, etc. supposed to be abstract representations of forces? If so are they synonymous with the forces are are they just an avatar of that aspect of nature?
>>327534
Mabey you are the faggot
I mean it makes sense you can hear the sticks slapping the keyboard meanwhile I'm not even using a keyboard
You where a faggot and you dident even know it
That story could make the next blockbuster imo
A faggots struggle to realise he was nothing but a bundleof sticks
>>327849
DUDE WIKIPEDIA LMAO
all that is very up for debate, there is nothing proven in any regard to the shit you ironically claim as gospel
>>327983
You are the one going from the historical norm. If you have evidence that the Babalyions believed that the Jewish concept of Satan was the same thing as their rain God why don't you present it?
At this point you are basically ancient aliens tier.
>>327575
history and humanities
read the sticky history is far from the only thing we discuss here
