There seems to be this widespread pluralistic ignorance regarding liberal arts majors where (mostly) STEM majors aggressively vilify liberal arts as "useless", "worthless", and so on.
How and when did this false sense of superiority originate from which give STEM majors a license to vilify things they (refuse) to understand and appreciate?
The internet allows anyone to learn everything about anything for free
Therefore, the only legitimate reason to go to college in the modern age is to earn a marketable degree
Liberal arts degrees have the market value of the paper they're printed on
As a STEM autist myself it seems to combination of general sperging about non-objective studies and the pissing contests that uni students seem to love getting into. Other majors, other degrees, other universities...
I see it most from engineering students who seem to lack interest and only be in it for the money, constantly bunging on about muh starting salary to reaffirm their otherwise dull and meaningless choice.
no profit in philosophy
Especially since half the people on this board believe they are more intelligent philosophers and historians that people that actually have a degree in it (and they're probably right).
>>321648
Philosophy makes a ton of money tho
>>320769
As someone not from the US, why are they called 'liberal arts' degrees?
Why the 'liberal' part? What even qualifies as liberal arts? All humanities?
>>321673
Prove this to me.
>>321674
anything that's not math or art based.
>>320769
Because the humanities are easy and not only produce nothing tangible, but in terms of modern humanities, they pump out pretentious opinionated garbage like sociology and soft "sciences". STEM fields actually produce something tangible and applicable to advancement of humanity AND career. Not to mention studying STEM is much more intensive than anything in the humanities. When your professors can only produce professors to teach more professors, it's no wonder people see them as having no worth. It's incestuous in that way.
The hatred of the humanities comes from the unwarranted sense of self importance that the humanities have in the modern age. I'm not denying that the humanities have their uses and value, but humanitiesfags act like the world fucking owes them when it's the scientists and the engineers who are building civilization and pioneering scientific discovery. The humanitiesfag smugness doesn't help them either.
>>320769
Knowledge of history and critical thinking are essential skills of any enlightened human being. STEM degrees and education don't provide this.
Not all humanities are equal though, History and to some extent Philosophy are much more relevant than sociology or anything with "Studies" in the title.
>In an incredibly short time, we have been turned into a nation without heroes, without pride in our past or knowledge of either our past triumphs or our past follies and disasters. We are like an amnesia patient, waking up in the hospital ward, with both past and future great blank spaces stretching behind and before us, doomed to repeat mistakes we do not even know we have already made. - Peter Hitchens
>>321727
The very concepts our civilization rests on were created by philosophers. Of course your philistine mind doesn't recognize anything "intangible".
>>321727
>advancement of humanity
>>321753
The hearth of the home and men created civilization, not philosophers. Of course the philosophers love to take credit for it.
Because leftists hijacked it.
>>321765
Yea, the common people came up with individual rights, constitutions, separation of powers, democracy, and economic theory.
>>321762
Yes, things like curing diseases and other problems to man are advancing humanity. What's you're point other than being smug and posting a reaction image?
This image really.
We have an entire generous of autistic, logical-positivists, that can't understand the value of anything slightly theoretical or abstract.
They will also never admit that the scientific method they love so much a result of philosophy. Or that the very nature of how science studies is being changed by philosophers.
>>321787
*your
>>320769
>"useless", "worthless", and so on
They are. You should study them, as a hobby, or just for the sake of it.
>>321789
Misunderstands scientists the way STEMs misunderstand humanities.
We know that we don't know anything. We just try to work with what works for us. Its just a different idea.
>>320769
It always was, for one thing. Gentlemen were expected to have a wide breadth of knowledge, like studying the classics, but that was in addition to being useful. If you tried to tell your parents that you weren't working to study and then that you were studying theater, or that you wanted to become a writer, or whatever, you would be laughed at mercilessly.
The vilification only came later when people have tried to retcon liberal arts as being worthy unto themselves. Or maybe when communism ruined half the world.
>>321779
>Yea, the common people came up with individual rights
You mean like the magna carta? Do you think that was a college paper?
>>321744
> anything with "Studies" in the title
So Security Studies is irrelevant? Counter-terrorism is pretty relevant desu
Experts in science and engineering are valuable for big business, but understanding the political and economic climate and having an idea of whats ethical, having desires independent from moving through the ranks of a company, etc,. is all ultimately bad for business and therefore bad for the interests of the status quo.
Liberal Arts, literature and philosophy, is mocked because it's been sabatoged by this new practice of pushing everyone into college. Liberal arts traditionally is where intellectuals learned to be critical of society through study, but because it is now the go-to for the average high school graduate it has been reduced to giving the illusion of social critique because they can only present what's paletable to some kid who isn't invested in the material at all besides meeting the requirements to graduate. In that environment the people actually invested and inspired aren't going to stand out. As long as it's delegitimized and has such pathetically low standards, no class of intellectuals will come out of western universities, for these reasons.
The division between STEM and humanities is, for those whose interests are served by the preservation of the status quo, the solution to a big problem: how do we educate the first world masses enough that they are able to design and operate our machinery and systems, without making them conscious that these systems are ultimately serving only the elites and not the average person. As long as respectable higher education only involves narrow technical prowess, and the humanities are scoffed at as pseudo-intellectualism, this problem is solved.
>>321815
>individual rights
>You mean like the magna carta?
STEM at its finest ladies and gentlemen.
Because of this LEL EVERYONE NEEDS COLLEGE meme we lowered requirements for admission. 200 years ago the knowledge of Latin / Greek was a requirement to study law or history and nowadays a history major can be a bigger mongoloid than someone who just reads wikipedia articles in his spare time.
>>321819
I doubt anyone would consider "Security Studies" as part of the Humanities.
>>321832
Would you consider political degrees as part of the Humanities?
If so, then Security Studies counts as a humanity because it's a sub-field of International Relations.
Love these threads to be honest
>>321839
Political science and international relations are considered social sciences where I'm from.
>>321826
Here's the full quote for you, retard:
>Yea, the common people came up with individual rights, constitutions, separation of powers, democracy, and economic theory.
Individual rights are organic developments of society built on top of other organic developments of society. It's not like someone went to a liberal arts class and then just conjured up individual rights one day.
What would you call the Magna Carta? Do you not classify it as a constitution? Do you think only the development of individual rights by common people is important, and not other societal rights? Do you only consider dirt-specked peasants to be common people?
>try to use rhetoric to dismiss someone from conversation
>get btfo'd by someone who knows what they're talking about
Liberal arts thinking they're more important than they are, everybody.
Also,
>implying I'm STEM
>>321830
>200 years ago the knowledge of Latin / Greek was a requirement
You're talking about a different age where info sources were different from today, you're fucking dense.
>>321876
The Magna Carta is technically a peace treaty, they just keked the king in it a la a limiting constitution.
>It's not like someone went to a liberal arts class and then just conjured up individual rights one day.
I never said this.
It was the philosophers who outlined, defined, and showed proofs for the rights of individuals.
>>321883
How can someone be, say, a Bible scholar if he doesn't understand classical languages?
In modern era we literally have "theologians" who only read the KJV.
>>321919
The post I was replying to did if you read the quote again. Obviously common people came up with some of those things, unless you don't believe in things like the magna carta or Hammurabi's code of laws or whatever.
here are the two posts before mine again:
>>321765
>The hearth of the home and men created civilization, not philosophers. Of course the philosophers love to take credit for it.
>>321779
>Yea, the common people came up with individual rights, constitutions, separation of powers, democracy, and economic theory.
It should be especially obvious to a philosopher. If philosophers created civilization, then what created philosophers? Unless you believe in some as yet unrecorded philosophers creating civilization I'd have to go with it being the other way around.
>>321976
>If philosophers created civilization, then what created philosophers?
Now you're attacking a strawman and just being silly. Philosophers created ideas that form our contemporary civilization. They didn't start all of civilization itself.
>>321986
>philosopher sitting near the hearth of his cozy european home
>creates western civilization
Who would you say started our civilization? When do you think it began? I'm not even sure what you disagree with here if you consider the magna carta important.
>>321933
You're kinda moving the goalpost, you or whatever anon said Latin and Greek used to be requirements to major history or law and now, you' re talking about specialists of a specific field above the average history major that obviously requires classical languages. I don't really know but then what about people of other specific fields, all of them require Latin and Greek, for example, to study and do research about prehistoric ages?
Basically, when university stopped being a choice and started being a requirement, it became about employment rather than expanding the mind. STEM degrees became the most important because they produced jobs.
I'm just surprised about the number of people who don't know about the trivium and quadrivium, at least the concept.
>>322052
>Who would you say started our civilization? When do you think it began?
This is a bit vague. I suppose you mean Western Civilization? Well most would say the Greeks way back when.
>>322077
Do you think Greek civilization sprang forth out of the mind of a Greek philosohper?
>>322087
No.
I said "the Greeks". Were all Greeks philosophers?
STEM vs Humanities fights tend to spring from universities, where the current progressive trend is at its strongest. STEM people percieve themselves as doing "real work" like contributing to medical research while getting yelled at by humanities people for advancing the hegemonic Eurocentrist "cure-based" view of treatment, despite how many minorities go into STEM. It doesn't help the fact that whenever STEM people ask what useful things the humanities people have done lately, they dispute the definition of "useful" rather than give any examples. That's probably partly why whenever humanities students say they're getting a degree in preparation for something else like law school, STEM students back off because they understand the utility.
>>322103
I presume at least some of them were common men with their hearths and their homes
>Computer science students who will go on to write code to make better advertisements on the internet talking about how they're more meaningful and productive
all my keks
>>321779
probably common people would've been pretty keen on individual rights and democracy if anyone asked them
>>322137
Yea, well, we couldn't have had home without engineering and shit. Thanks STEM majors.
>>322145
If liberal arts students can get that utopian revolution they've been promising for a century going, they get to be smug when it happens. In the meantime, everyone has rent to play, so we'll do whatever is profitable and convenient.
>>322159
>thank you based english philosophers, for keking the king into a peace treaty
The sword is mightier than the sword, I always say
You're going to have to disagree with something if you want to display your disapproval here guy. Until then, thanks for agreeing with me and that other anon, I guess
>>322336
>The sword is mightier than the sword, I always say
Yea, your other statements are always of a similar degree of stupidity. Gimme somethin' to disagree with. Come on.
>>322357
>The hearth of the home and men created civilization, not philosophers. Of course the philosophers love to take credit for it.
>philosopher sitting near the hearth of his cozy european home
>creates western civilization
>I said "the Greeks". Were all Greeks philosophers?
Have you even made a statement?
>Magna Carta wasn't about individual rights, loooooooooool retard
>It was a peace treaty, not a constitution.
>The Greeks created our civilization, but I can't type any more without making the strawman argument I accused you of presenting earlier
What do you even disagree with here? You don't think the hearth of home and men created civilization, and you want to take credit for it?
>The sword is mightier than the sword, I always say
Yeah, it's a joke about the English philosophers who came up with the Magna Carta not actually being philosophers.
>>322385
>You don't think the hearth of home and men created civilization, and you want to take credit for it?
I don't think that. I'm saying that modern western civilization is built on ideas created, promoted, and or outlined by philosophers.
>>320769
Like every other degree, liberal arts degree lost their value over the course of the post-WW2 era. What makes the value of a degree is its selectiveness. Having a master meant you were the shit back in ye olde days, but now college/uni education is extremely accessible, simple as that.
Engineers still make good because the demand for them in industry grew with he democratization of higher education, but it's not all STEM. A degree in astrophysics is about as valuable without connections as a degree in any liberal art.
The truth is there isn't a need for that many intellectuals. There can be only so many epistemic ruptures every century, and nobody is gonna read all the thousands of publications in a field every year.
>>322409
>philosopher sitting near the hearth of his cozy european home
>creates western civilization
>>322474
>anon sitting at his computer
>contributes to society
Oh wait.
>>321825
the answer is right here and no one gives a fuck
>>322501
>philosophy student deftly avoids ever saying anything
>goes to sleep feeling like he won an argument
>secretly agrees with the person he was talking to
>>322541
You misrepresented my point from the beginning.
>>322409
>deadbeat crackhead gives birth to a genius and takes credit for all his accomplishments later in life
This is basically the current situation with philosoniggers and STEM. It's like saying geologists are physicists because they study rocks and shit and that's physical.
People realize this and rightfully pronounce philosophy dead, because it's useless.
>>322549
You mocked a guy for saying philosophers try to take credit for building civilization, then kept trying to take credit for philosophers for building civilization.
>>321779
>Yea, the common people came up with individual rights, constitutions, separation of powers, democracy, and economic theory.
How is this a misrepresentation? Do you think the Magna Carta was a college paper? Do you think Greek philosophers built their cities and customs and laws? Where do you think Greek democracy came from? Do you think philosophers started minting coins? Do you think Hammurabi just decided to give the world the rule of law one day?
I tried asking you these before, but you haven't said anything. I would just assume you're being pedantic about what "building" civilization means except for the fact that you mocked some guy for trying to say that common people did anything like that when they quite obviously have. I mean, show me a philosopher and I'll show you a civilization he's refining his ideas from.
>>321883
That isn't the point. The point is 200 years ago you couldn't study the humanities and be a retard because you had to know Latin / Greek which would filter you out. Nowadays the barrier to entrance is basically non-existent and lo and behold the humanities is full of retards.
>>322570
Of course the common man created civilization and is a force in its direction. But I am saying that you should not ignore the philosopher. He inspires the revolutionaries and lawmakers.
>>321689
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZ_R-IrmI0
>>320769
Because the average humanities student is an idiot when compared to the average STEM student.
Well at least where I live, since here the requirements for both are wildly different (humanities has the entry requirements of a daycare and STEM actually requires that you study and apply yourself).
This is why I quit history.
>>320769
Liberal arts are threatening to the establishment. They don't want people to think too much about society and cause trouble. It's better to have STEM worker drones with no knowledge of history or philosophy or anything that causes them to think outside of their narrow field.
Well here most philosophy majors are virulent assholes that consider themselves as the pinnacle of human achivement and sophistication and consider STEM people to be lowly monkeys that are merely good at memorizing how to operate machinery. I had to attend a party full of these people once, it was horrible. I left as soon as I could to go shitface myself with Jäger with some buddies under a bridge.
>>320769
Until both areas truly look into the historical progression of both areas and the relations between the two, how they built off of each other or clashed with each other and how we got to where we are today with a mutual respect from both sides (of the brain) there isn't going to be any progress.
>>321976
Did the man who invented college go to college?
>>324030
Liberal arts aren't threatening the establishment, their practicers are mostly confined on universities and they are only listened by outsiders if they say something they want to hear.
>>321744
>History and to some extent Philosophy are much more relevant than sociology
Depends on what you mean by sociology, but I'd say that holds true to discourse research and other relativistic bullshit. I don't have anything against knowledge not being useful right on the bat, it took a century for Boolean algebra to become useful, but knowledge that isn't generaliseable at all only has value as a historical quirk.
I'm a social science student and I'm kinda worried that at least in my program you can ignore quantitative analysis save a few mandatory courses. When people who have weak mathematical background are presented an option to focus on stuff that awfully resembles literature analysis from high school as an alternative to studying statistics, you end up with a lot of people who think the use of language holds so much power in human behavior that replacing gendered pronouns with a neutral one will make them ignore genders.
>>320769
The Reaganoids blamed college students for losing the Vietnam war when it was actually North Vietnamese AAA.
>>322505
Except the actual answer does not include some sort of pathetic allusion to a conspiracy theory...
>>324147
Typical STEM.
>>321825
reccing a screencap of this
>>324727
Are you seriously saying people working towards their own interests is a conspiracy theory? Are you naive enough to believe that the people on top of society are more enlightened than the average person?
There's no conspiracy. People do what they think will benefit them. People with a lot of power can do this more effectively.
White collar conceptualists arguing with white collar conceptualists arguing with white collar appliers of concepts.
People thinking their abstract theoretical physics concepts that lightly influence the direction of hard developments are better than someone else's abstract theoretical sociological/philosophical concepts that lightly influence the direction of public policy, then calling their big brothers in the Drafting department to declare humanities to be devoid of utility, despite that being a philosophy.
The fact is, the more abstract you get, the less classically "productive" you are. Nobody in STEM or Humanities are as important as the people who work on maintaining public infrastructure via a 2 year apprenticeship certificate.
Both of us, STEM and Humanities, are at the top of the pyramid of utility, and our bickering just highlights how bourgeois we actually are. Everyone has a role to play in making a society run, regardless of if a field is overcrowded or not materially productive, even though I don't think either STEM or Humanities aren't actually productive. We both are, but it's not as obvious to casual observers as the greater and more visible impact of a construction worker.
>>324927
Good post.
>>320769
One point is that the humanities are not marketable. In a day when college is so expensive, it seems insulting that someone would go just to get an almost useless degree. There is also the SJW culture that permeates the humanities these days. This culture is a cancer, and allows no room for discourse or controversy, something that the humanities is supposed to welcome. In many regards, their sense of superiority is not false.
>>320769
It's not hatred, it's elitism. STEM students are superior to the ones studying anything else the same way special forces in any military are superior to regular soldiers. They train harder and thus grow faster and higher than the rest below.
>>322630
Most people aren't going to make it to this level, there are more profitable stem jobs than liberal arts jobs.
>>321825
So much this. University has become High School: $100,000 in debt addition.
>Liberal art major
>Calling people ignorant
You literally KNOW SHIT about anything due.
You are studying useless worthless shit,you need to learn how to deal with that fact.
>>320769
look at any liberal arts college protest.
Thats why there a laughing stock and the butt of jokes
>>321825
Meh. There are plenty of humanity departments that are very valuable to capitalism, namely sociology and social psychology. Some graduates of those fields integrate perfectly well into the system in roles where they are in charge of producing the doctrine of capitalism, i.e. management theory.
>>324927
>Nobody in STEM or Humanities are as important as the people who work on maintaining public infrastructure via a 2 year apprenticeship certificate.
>the people who design and build public infrastructure are less important than the people who maintain public infrastructure
>>324999
>Good post.
Sorry but that's a shit post. Maybe if by STEM he just meant S or if he's one of the language purists who thinks M doesn't ever mean medicine, which would be hilarious on its own.
Pure rhetoric, either samefagging or you should be ashamed you fell for it desu
>>325555
Jealousy: We STEM majors are jealous that you guys get more free time and don't have to work as hard. And humanities majors are jealous that they aren't taken seriously by society, and can't get good jobs.
Oddly enough the only place I've ever encountered STEM elitism is on 4chan and le reddit.
>>324927
Holy shit humanities detected.
How can you even write something like that and not see the difference. Almost anyone can be a construction worker and maintain infrastructure. Just like almost anyone can be a pussy arts major... although I agree the former is much more useful.
Not just anyone can be a doctor or engineer.
The only reason a field is overcrowded is because nobody needs it. There's no prerequisite for being a humanities major other than being an average high school student with a loan or ideally a trust fund hipster.
Thinking about society in your pajamas doesn't put you at the top of the utility pyramid.
The fact that most of you idiots still go out of your way to quibble about which field is more useful tells me all that I need to know.
Study what pertains to your interests, and keep in mind that it has to lead to a profession at some point in time. Honestly, all that matters in the end is if you reach serenity with life and all of its conundrums. If you don't, no matter where you are and what you've learned, you'll be a butt-hurt faggot for eternity.
Universities used to be exclusive places. Only the brightest could go and study, and degrees were rigorous across the board. They were all considered respectable, for the most part.
Then a divergence occurred with the wide-scale watering down of degrees, entrance standards, etc. to allow in huge new inflows of students. Liberal arts were the chief offender in watering down their course-work, introducing pants on head retarded new "degrees" that had no academic merit, and generally flooding the market with new grads with no palpable skills or ability past "write a rote 2,000 word essay on a thoughtless topic".
STEM is the better of what is essentially two evils confronting the modern world of "everyone needs to go to college and get a degree" and "everyone deserves a degree". The degrees are generally more difficult, rigorous, and there is more of a market for it.
>>321727
/HIS/ BTFO
T
F
O
>>321021
>constantly bunging on about muh starting salary
FUCKING THIS
Its hilarious when an IT major tries to brag about salaries working for Google or Microsoft when he will end up like 99% of all IT majors at a shit help desk job fixing Macbooks for the very same people he mocked for not being STEM. Also if you are a total sperg like many STEM types, being able to interview well and sell yourself matters more than having a degree in your feild. They feel they are entitled to a high paying job for having a piece of paper when they have no marketable skills.
The sciences hardly engages these types beyond "I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE" facebook posts and pop science. When it comes to engineering, there is a very real meme among students that all problems (poverty, starvation, climate change) can be solved by engineers and "science", thus not requiring students to understand the complex social reasons behind these problems.
Thing is, engineers are not geared to solve problems like this. For example, the engineering approach to fixing industrial food systems is more automation and a machine that literally soaks the food in chemicals to technically solve the issue of infectious diseases. No where in the engineers checklist and calculations do they asses the stability or sustainability of the industrial food system, which if they paid any attention to the world outside of their bubble, is the root of the problem. So engineers will go on making big bucks at Purdue selling bullshit machines that handwave 3% more literal bullshit away to skirt the EPA regs and claim "the system just works". God it sounds like I just watched food inc which I did but that was years ago.
t. Environmental Science major
>>326861
>Not just anyone can be a doctor or engineer.
STEMfags actually believe this.
>>326730
They also get more pussy
>>326737
Reddit jerks themselves raw to Neil DeGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan while congratulating themselves for being le enlightened atheists. Nothing brings out the smug in a redditor more than the sciences or engineering.
>>326737
Because you either live in a humanity hugbox or never leave your basement
>>326988
There are Programmers and IT majors right now who think they deserve to be called STEM.
They LITERALLY believe they will have a job with Microsoft when in reality they will end up dying alone financially ruined like moot.
>>327026
I thought it was because I interacted with normal human beings instead of 4chan basement dwellers.
It stems from the complex almost every intellectual has
Mainly being stupidly retarded about anything not related to their field
>>320769
In this century, everyone is able to go to the university and have a degree. The lower classes have always been more pragmatical in their decisions than the upper well established ones, liberal arts being something typical of the elites. This hasn't changed, but now we allow lower classes to be engineers, doctors, etc. and of course they're not gonna choose the field that "doesn't give money". They've probably been raised by worker-class parents who had to actively look for what gave money to survive and pay the STEM faggot his studies.
>>327129
>liberal arts being something typical of the elites. This hasn't changed
>>321815
IMO This is definitely it.
What are the most or will be among the most oversaturated fields?
Humanitiesfag here (history major fag).
I firmly believe that the humanities have lost value due to recent developments in STEM and the humanities. Specifically, STEM puts food on the table relative to humanities and is behind a lot of key developments. Ultimately, STEM has gained a lot of prestige and for good reason.
In contrast, humanities has lost most of its prestige, as it has devolved into culture wars and politics in my opinion. Moreover, humanities is not all that selective.
Also, I see the argument that humanities teach critical thinking. I find that argument laughable and baseless. Students must either parrot their professors beliefs or get failing grades. That does not create critical thinkers, just parrots.
>>327462
I think it is because less people going into the humanities do it with the intention of being intellectuals than before.
>>327462
>argues with Professor about book being read in class
>Professor actually concedes defeat
>got one of the highest scores in that class
From what I've noticed people who hate on humanity majors are usually bland republicans who get their opinion from conservative sources who got their degree in humanities. Seriously people who have this weird disdain for humanities are some of the most illiterate people I've ever met when it comes to current events, history, popular culture and even science/technology.
As for STEM majors my experience in college is that they were all friendless losers incapable of being funny or having conversations, besides the occasional really smart normal dude. STEM majors constantly go on about humanities majors are poor and won't ever get a job while bragging about how much they're "in demand." It's laughably pathetic!
If money was what you really wanted you would become some sort of business major, but 98% or STEM majors are way too autistic and sad for that. Face it the reason you're STEM is because in order to get a good job with humanities or business you have to be able to talk to people. And
>In demand
Pretty much every one of you guys can't find a job because your degrees are insanely specialized. You have to go to school for 8 years and go 100,000s of $ in debt.
My degree was Political Science and I can do whatever I want with it, and guess what being some Econ majors science lackey isn't among it. Currently living a very comfortable lifestyle with a flexible schedule and plenty of room to grow.
People who hate on humanities majors are delusional in any case. I remember while still in school volunteering at the YMCA. The lady who worked at the desk full time asked me what my major was and I replied honestly. She very condescendingly replied "and what are you possibly gonna do with that?" While I should have insulted her for being in her mid 40s and working a counter job I refrained and now everytime I work out I can rejoice that she works 50+ hours a week minimum wage like a slave just like you STEMs do.
>>327266
Law
Psicology
Whatever american women study
IT - Computer science
I think the getting a job thing is a bit of a moot point. That depends far more on your University than on your major. An english major from Harvard will fuck almost any engineer in the job market. And an MBA from Stanford will fuck both.
Btw what do you guys think of business majors?
Rank them: Finance, Economics, Accounting, Management
And the reason people hate on liberal arts is because there no bar and no standard for that degree. Anyone can get a liberal arts major, so what's there to be proud of? Are you proud of passing the 10th grade?
>>322135
what's wrong with a cure based form of treatment and what makes it strictly eurocentrist?
>>328077
You aren't eliminating the circumstances and conditions that lead to diseases being prevalent in some places as opposed to others.
For instance, the overuse of antibiotics has lead to antibiotic resistant strains that cannot be "cured" with more medicine. With the way pharmaceutical industries are, this benefits the company more than the patient, as they can artificially limit access to medicine due to resistance fears.
Cancer research is another area that falls for the cure based way of thinking, since cancer in general is never one disease or strain and thus curing it is impossible. Every case requires a new cure and tons of money.
Lastly, is the issue of geography, where some areas face problems more than others - disease is a side effect of poor infrastructure and poor public health.
A cure based approach is putting a band aid on one type of disease instead of fighting the conditions that are responsible for disease being a problem in the first place. We see this issue with agriculture and environmental policy, where a "technically correct" solution fixes a side effect of the whole system being faulty. Engineers tend to be more atomists with their thinking, while sciences and humanities lean to more holistic analysis.
Basically, trying to fix every little thing thats wrong with your car instead of realizing its a junker and that there are other cars (IE ways of thinking about stuff) than the one you insist on driving.
>>328074
A liberal arts degree from any respected institution is gonna get somewhere on the the job market simply because of name recognition. I think the problem is with people going to no name schools, or worse, community colleges and getting liberal arts degrees and not pursuing higher degrees or double majoring. Like you said, a liberal arts degree from a reknown school stanford or Harvard can stand on its own, but if its from bumfuck CC, you should consider getting another degree or have fun being a barista for the rest of your life.
Business majors are cool and very important, except for marketing, their lives depend on consumerism and protecting consumerism by duping idiots into buying into the system.
>>328074
Finance, Accounting and Management are for drones who want to be mid-ranked execs and do the thingy all day and get cash for it.
Economics is the thinking man choice. Risky, but the potential intellectual and financial rewards are out of this world.
>>327462
>The humanities are useless because they don't make as much money as STEM concentrations
Ok buster. And just because you went to a shit-tier community college and got a D on your poorly written paper does not mean that all humanities professors reject arguments that aren't their own.
Economics>Finance/Accounting>Marketing>Management>All other biz majors
The top two require decent application of math especially finance, and there's much more opportunity to build a professional career rather than being a codemonkey or jobless philosopher.
It's the underrated discipline while STEM gets more saturated.
t. Finance/International Business double major
>>322423
Underrated post
>>328074
>Business majors
Fucking God-tier. Especially for a good school. You learn something useful and reasonably technical, but also learn how to talk to people. There's no autistic finance majors.
>all the butthurt humanities majors ITT
Absolutely hilarious, yeah I'm sure it's some vast conspiracy by the man to convince everyone your degrees are bullshit, I'm sure.
Also btw that whole "philosohpy gave you your science so give us respect!" argument is exactly the same argument religious people will use just with religion in place of philosophy, just thought you might like to know that
>>328775
Epic post!
>>325555
Nice quads.
But now time for some reality.
You are worthless as well. Unless you are providing groundbreaking work in science that is helping humanity, which is probably less than 1% of all STEMfags (and that's is being extremely fucking generous) or health care worker, you are just about as worthless as the philosophy major with a doctorate that works at Starbucks.
The only thing you did superior to that dipshit was repetition, which just shows you have great memory skills and are above average, aka not a retard.
t. trust fund baby
>>328935
Oh forgot to mention work ethic. Kids with liberal arts degree have shit work ethics. I have shit one too, but it doesn't matter in my case.
But I do at least appreciate the amazing work ethic STEM kiddies have. However, MOST of you will not end up with 100k+ salaries and probably never will. So enjoy life Walter White, and please don't get mad when your wife c.u.cks you for me.
>>320769
>STEM majors aggressively vilify liberal arts as "useless", "worthless", and so on
>the S and M fields fall under liberal arts
>>328775
THIS THIS THIS
+9001
>>326979
While I appreciate your point; the notion that problems will be solved without science is just as laughable.
A quick example of this is found with the developments in wind power, which is now more cost efficient than gas or coal power plants when built from scratch. The same week that this figure was reported my government (australia) announced that it was cutting all public funding to wind power research for reasonably arbitrary reasons.
Without the science, you would never have even managed to approach a potential solution to this issue; without the emotional appeal of the arts it's impossible to explain why this should continue to proceed and as a result it's been effectively canned in my country in favour of the coal mining magnates.
Both sides compliment each other, and both sides appear to be under the impression that they are under attack by the other. (We recently had an arts majority union suggesting the defunding of IT to prevent the loss of arts staff members; in the end they cut science and engineering staff instead because the union actively didn't give a shit about them, this has caused quite a bit of bad blood)
I'm an engineering major and it's true a lot of engineering majors think that liberal arts are like invalid. I don't think that desu I was thinking about changing my major to music. I like mechanical engineering but I hate solidworks.
>>321779
Zaleucus was a shepherd, Lycurgus was a general, Jesus was a laborer. The men of the American revolution were yeoman farmers and those of the French revolution were petit bourgeois.
You bet your fag ass the common people created civilization.
>>320769
You've got a lot of good answers already explaining why STEM *is* superior, but something nobody seems to have mentioned yet is the massive prestige loss of the humanities associated with adoption of post-modernist ideas. At one time the humanities were repsected rightly or wrongly as the culture bearers of Europe, but then the 68 generation commandeered them to just shit on our culture and heritage nonstop and push retarded relativism everywhere and so obviously now people see the humanities as a zoo for shit-flinging monkeys.
Imagine if there was some guy prattling on about physics, getting every single fact wrong and disagreeing with every consensus while offering no feasible alternative, and when actual scientists call him out on it he says "Oh, I'm not a physicist, so it's not my fault if I get something wrong. Physics isn't really worth studying anyway, you can learn everything you need to know about it from the Internet haha". But millions of people listen to this person and start espousing his ideas that no actual physicist agrees with.
That's what historians have to put up with nowadays.
I only go to university for JSTOR access.
f-free journal publication!
Is Nassim Haramein a scientist?
>>326589
In practical terms, yes.
If we stopped innovating tomorrow, the only "cost" would be in that things wouldn't get better. Maintaining what we have would still be important, though, or else we'd actually start declining.
>>326861
>Almost anyone can be a construction worker
Much like almost anyone can learn the means to build or maintain anything, that doesn't make people who specialize in it less productive or less valuable.
Your whole post presumes "difficulty = utility = marketability" when they're three different things, and is ignorant of the fact that every law and policy that makes-up society is influenced by humanities work, in philosophical and sociological contexts.
People don't accomplish things without the society around them allowing their accomplishments to be made, hence why humanities are important from an administrative perspective in the same way STEM is important from a practical perspective.
>>321727
>implying there aren't smug cunts in STEM that deny any use or value in humanities
>implying humanities are inherently smug and smug cunts on both sides don't make more smug cunts on the opposite side by starting the smug cunt cycle
>>332290
>If we stopped innovating tomorrow, the only "cost" would be in that things wouldn't get better. Maintaining what we have would still be important, though, or else we'd actually start declining.
100% wrong.
>bridge's structural integrity weakens over time because of the elements
>just repave it
>earthquake in california
>don't worry guys I swept the floors
>fire in an office building
>hvac guys say it's a-okay
>building collapse because you had hvac guys as the most specialist engineers available
>we'll just have our construction workers build a new one
>building collapse because you had construction workers design a building
If we stopped innovating tomororw and just "maintained" what we had, we'd end up with nothing in 50 or 100 years. Even well maintained things will fall to shit or are ruined by accidents, crime, negligence, or natural disasters.
Proper maintenance of high technology requires STEM, not just trade school labor. Aircrafts nowadays practically last forever because they're continually being rebuilt, but how do you think that's accomplished? It's not just some laborers putting new parts on, they have to investigate and analyze where things are breaking and why and then figure out fixes for them, what materials to use, and where to acquire them from.
What you're saying can only make sense if you take as axiomatic the idea that you can just pause time today. It's asinine. You're literally describing the dark ages.
>>321727
>pretentious opinionated garbage
>unwarranted sense of self importance
>smugness
Like the kind you exhibit in your post?
>>332916
Because none of the 30 year veterans of construction have picked up any on-the-job knowledge of how to properly maintain anything.
>>333800
>the people who design and build public infrastructure are less important than the people who maintain public infrastructure because the people who maintain public infrastructure will know how to design public infrastructure after 30 years of pouring cement
Because STEMweenies have nothing to brag about besides "muh salary" and "le stem is hard, librul arts is not"
The main reason most STEM students in uni haven't killed themselves is because they have to constantly reaffirm themselves that they'll be making more money if they manage to pass, and after thinking this so many times they eventually spout off online.
STEM is important, but not necessarily "better." I know people with English degrees that make a hell of a lot more money than some people with various Engineering degrees.
>>329405
I sincerely doubt that he believes that problems can be solved without science. In fact, his entire point is that they require science to be solved. It just so happens that this includes the social sciences. I've found that it's extremely useful to take at least a single course in cultural anthroplogy, to help in seeing issues more objectively and beyond your own personal perspective, and maybe some philosophy courses. I have yet to take any, but it sounds interesting trying to be honest with oneself and consistent in one's beliefs, etc.
Anyway, yeah, social sciences are sciences too. Science of how humans work is pretty essential. Anthropologists are absolutely neccessary, along with economists and such. For all the disparagment that "SJW"'s get, that's precisely why we need the social sciences, so marginalized voices can be heard, allowing us to gain a wider perspective on the world and the issues society faces..
I'm only a sophmore, but I've found that the concept of marginal utility has helped frame the way I think about the whole issue. Many different skills and roles are required to solve issues, not just one. You require knowledge of the humanities and STEM fields, and you need academics and electricians to run the whole economy. Countless different specializations each contribute. A scientist may not build anything, but the knowledge he provides still has monetary value. For example, a health paper could impact human behavior in such a way that medical costs are decreased, or a sociology report could aid understanding of an issue, which influences policy which then leads to a decrease in suffering and various costs associated with social issues. Etc.
>>322183
/THREAD
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>>334643
>For all the disparagment that "SJW"'s get, that's precisely why we need the social sciences, so marginalized voices can be heard, allowing us to gain a wider perspective on the world and the issues society faces..
Worth reminding everyone that we disparage SJWs not because social issues aren't important, but because the SJWs are shits. Furthermore, they're hyper-cynical shits that conveniently hijack other people's causes for their own self-interests.
>>334074
>the people who design infrastructure build the infrastructure
>there aren't scores of people with engineering degrees that would be clueless if expected to actually interact with the devices and structures they design productively
>>322068
>I'm just surprised about the number of people who don't know about the trivium and quadrivium, at least the concept.
Knigga my tutoring business it based on that shit.
>Plus "Gifted" children or, as I like to call it, "charge 2xDivorcee-mommy & never@home-daddy lots of money so I can teach your quasi-autistic child important social-skills & encourage their interest in painting when you wanted to force her to do Law because "You want a good job don't you honey? You don't want to be like them? [gestures to my staff]"
I did Arts in History & English.
Then I did a technical college degree in Project Management and Theatre/Film Production (namely Producing).
Academic Inflation is very real, & it's sad.
I've employed STEM graduates in the past but they all seem so... Despondent.
>>334643
>so marginalized voices can be heard, allowing us to gain a wider perspective on the world and the issues society faces..
This is not why the liberal arts and social sciences exist. They exist to dispassionately analyses various social phenomena. Weather this helps marginalized groups or not is far from the point
>>335700
>Theatre/Film Production (namely Producing
Sorry, Animation Producing.
>Cum on me bro
>>321021
>non-objective studies
I'm fucking triggered. Postmodernism has infiltrated every facet of education, including STEM.
Pomo is a fucking meme and it needs to be purged.
>>321779
>individual rights
>constitutions
>separation of powers
>democracy
>economic theory
All of these are literally cancer, and I'm a history major. What have we done? We're the priests of the false gospel of modernity. We have destroyed objective reality and ushered in an era where people question the existence of reality in order to justify behavior that is morally abhorrent.
We are the cancer killing the West.
The humanities are mocked these days because they've been turned into pure fluff at best and platforms for angry demagogues at worst. What used to be a valuable way for people to gain a wider and deeper understanding of humanity and its history is now a vehicle for pumping poison into the minds of young people, indoctrinating them in what to think rather than giving them information and telling them to think for themselves. Anyone who has gone to a major university in the US in the last 5 years knows that the campus culture of professional victimhood and all the hysterical crybaby nonsense about trigger warnings and rape culture and patriarchy that makes campus life so much shittier for people trying to actually learn all comes from the humanities departments. They don't seem to learn anything except how to invent reasons to be outraged.
Autism + Capitalism = STEMism
