Do you think history would forgive Hitler like it did to Napoleon,Genghis Khan and so much more conquerors?
>>281547
No.
Probably not.
For one, he was a complete windowlicker.
you're whitewashing history if you think hitler is just a 'conqueror'
No but the next generations won't care that much about him.
>>281551
>>281556
>Genghis Khan killed 40 million people which is around 10% of the global population.
But the reason we see him as a hero today is because he won the war and Hitler instead loss.
Hitler killed six million innocent jews, the other two did not.
>>281547
Probably not, the industrialized, intentional mass-murder of civilians was a pretty dumb thing to do, if he was going for "great legacy".
Then again by some theories that kinda just got out of hand.
Anyway, the next generation will be too occupied liking memes on snapchat to give a shit about the guy their great-grandfather might have fought for/against like, a million years ago, gramps.
They've practically already forgiven Genghis and Alexander.
They'll all be associated with their indirect contributions like the above.
>>281573
We see him as a hero?
Mongolia certainly does.
After that, it's 50% "oh yeah, that's the guy who murdered all of those people, what a dick" and 50% "it's kind of cool how good that guy was at murdering large numbers of people."
I'm in the second camp.
>>281569
>some lonely dude who fails class
>suddenly rise to become the Fuhrer
oh come on,that is interesting story for the future people.It's the story from zero to hero of Hitler story might make him more liked in the future.
>>281580
>their indirect contributions
Well yeah but there wasn't a "germanization of Europe", unlike with Alexander's hellenisation. So what would this contribution be? Rockets?
History will not. Besides just killing Jews, Hitler did not many any lasting impacts on the world, like Napoleon with his laws, and Genghis Khan with his uniting the tribes and fucking up a good portion of the world, like the Middle East.
>>281595
Tons of people do that.
Some of these people actually won the wars they were involved in.
Even Stalin and Lenin were more impressive, and they were huge dicks.
He'll have the same reputation as Vlad Tepes. Probably a bit worse.
>>281547
I think he will, but give it a few centuries.
Genghis Khan was more widespread and can easily be considered the more brutal conqueror (especially considering he personally commanded and committed much of the acts), but people don't really give a moral fuck about him.
>>281573
What, Genghis is literally "rape and murder for fun" the person. Guy's basically a Champion of Khorne, nobody thinks of him as a hero.
>>281620
Mongolia sees him as a hero.
>>281612
could you imagine how angry people in the 12th century would have been if they read this article
http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/jan/26/genghis-khan-eco-warrior
>>281625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmo3fKeveo
>>281599
Rockets, medicine, technology in general. Also great at turning a country around.
If you don't believe me, remember, Genghis's policy was the whole village pledged loyalty or every man died.
>>281625
Well he is the only reason most people give a shit about Mongolia. When I was going to school we studied him like he was a wanton hurricane. There was no idolization or defense of what he did.
>>281631
>"Why Genghis Khan was good for the planet?"
kek
>one day, Hitler will be 'reappraised' as a tragic hero
>university students will write theses arguing he deserves credit for the Space Race or some bullshit
>"sure, he killed a lot of people, but didn't everybody back then?"
>>281643
>technology in general
Like what?
>>281547
>Napoleon
maybe frogs do, but scholars are of course very critical of him
>Genghis Khan
I think he's almost universally seen as an asshole.
>>281573
Nobody really sees genghis khan as a hero. It's more that nobody really cares anymore. And the main reason for that is that it was so far in the past that it is completely out of the collective memory of society. The further away in distance or time you are from something, the less real it feels and the less people care.
>>281547
Napoleon had nothing to be forgiven
He conquered mostly in self-defense and didnt genocide anyone
Ghengis probably conduced countless big scale massacre, but it's so ancient no one cares
Hitler genocided 6 millions chosen people
He wont be forgiven until islam dominates the West
>>281647
Ernst Jünger wrote of war as a sort of natural disaster, a horrible, but in no way avoidable occurrence where one just has to do one's best to get through it and hope to be alive when it's passed.
I think of Genghis in much the same way. There's a reason people literally believed God sent him as a scourge for their sins.
>>281672
>He conquered mostly in self-defense
Berthier pls
>>281675
What the fuck is with horse archers being considered the Scourge of God? It happened with Attila, too.
>>281599
He sort of directed the west into 100% entrenched democracy.
If it weren't for all his countries crazy-retarded conquests and killings fascism could very well still be considered a legitimate ideology and communism would have definitely played a different role.
>>281681
It's true though
Out of the seven wars he fought, only two were started by him
>>281683
Seems like horse archery is one of those things you need to live and breathe to be any good at. Enter the steppe peoples, who rode a horse before they knew what sex was. Running down the soft, agricultural men who haven't got a chance of being that skilled in war.
>>281683
>weird guy from far off comes to our good Christian country
>kills, rapes, burns and pillages his way through
>besieges cities
>just so happens to have his own men die of a mysterious plague
>lets see how those guys inside the city like my corpses lol
>enter Black Death
Guy was all murder and rape, all the time. And surely every little Christian girl found SOMETHING she had thought of earlier that makes punishment from God admissible.
>>281681
not him but Napoleon doesn't want a war.It's the eternal Anglo keep on bugging Napoleon with the blockade and fear mongering the people of europe that all monarch will be remove if Napoleon stays in power.
All problems can go back to the Eternal Anglo
>>281684
Yeah, I'll agree he had a profound effect on ethics and political philosophy.
>>281702
>m-mon General didn't do nothing
>>281547
Yes. The new population of Europe, don't like Jews very much. He will become quite celebrated
>>281574
>innocent
>>281702
Gutten tag, Hans
I see you have left /int/ to shitpost about anglos on /his/ too.
Still butthurt about Dresden?
>>281659
Mongol empire was well-policed and promoted trade, thus allowed for technology to spread a lot faster, as well as ideas
>>281547
Yes, in the future historians with more neutral viewpoints of our times will claim he was a great man and an extraordinary genius.
>>281728
We were talking about Hitler.
>>281683
Because to combat horse archers with antique technology you need to face them on your own terms with equally skilled and well-equipped forces and doing so was largely impossible at the time. They were utterly alien to the west in both motivation and means and so there wasn't a hard counter available besides taking them out of their element - but that was easier said than done because if they smelled a trap they'd just go raid someone else while the would-be trappers played catch-up. You really couldn't ask for a better method of warfare at the time.
>>281726
>assuming I hate the Anglo because of personal reasons
just look at history and you can tell how much the Anglo doesn't want a strong European power in the continent.Even today they try to implement that foreign policy on EU.
>destroying Napoleon who wants to unite Europe
>destroying Hitler who wants to unite Europe
>support muslim country like Ottomon empire
>>281738
Oh. I'm sorry. But due to the intense warfare of WW2, you had to innovate in order to one-up your enemy. So as a direct consequence of Hitler, technology prospered. He didn't do it himself but WW2 created the avenue for many kinds of research. Even in the medical field since the invaluable knowledge collected by the Germans on their experiments on the volunteer soldiers and then the various people that were under Germany that gave a vast pool of test subjects.
I dunno.
>>281595
He's the hero of /r9k/ if you think about it.
Pre WW1:
>homeless
>tfw no gf
>considered weird and a loner
Then some magical stuff happens during the war that allows him to become the Fuhrer, as well as get a gf.
>>281683
Mobility. Steppe people seem to just come out of nowhere.
Also, several of them were spooky skeletons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtIOphn53k4
>>281547
ask the chinese if they forgive Ghengis
>>281761
>get gf
>she's not into your fetish
>get new gf
>shoots herself
>tfw
>>281675
Ernst Junger was a psychopath. He's in the minority when it comes to viewing past war experiences.
>>281773
>Ernst Jünger was a psychopath
What makes you say that? He hardly comes across as unfeeling in his writings, nor does he "enjoy" war as such.
>>281773
It isn't actually that uncommon for people to enjoy combat.
>>281771
Even when he was Fuhrer and had the chance to have a harem like chad thundercock, he was still a gentleman and remained faithful to whatever girl he was seeing. The girls he dated weren't even 10/10. He was modest, and a romantic when he could of had a harem of 1000s of German girls.
>>281789
I like to think he was just a robot through and through and no matter how much power, fame, and money he had, he was a huge weirdo and girls smelled it from a mile away.
>a-at least I still have you, Heinrich-san ;_;
>>281789
What a punkbitch.
>>281781
He couldn't write what he REALLY felt in his writings. Had to tame it down. But his views of war were pretty fucked up. His experiences would have left most men with lifelong PTSD, but he saw it as a way of becoming a man.
>>281797
He could cut loose when he wanted to, unlike robots.
>>281789
That's not true at all. You're still buying into Hitler's propaganda.
>>281797
He was a robot til the end. He was able to give charismatic speeches with the help of meth, but that was it. Accounts of personal meetings with Hitler gave the impression that he was shy, meek, and likely autistic. That's part of the reason why he hid his private life so much. I mean just look at that picture of him in WW1. Does that look like an alpha with leadership material?
>>281800
>He couldn't write what he REALLY felt in his writings
How do you figure?
>his views of war were pretty fucked up
Odd, to the modern reader, surely, but I wouldn't call them fucked up.
Besides, have you read his other stuff? He was obviously a very feeling, sensible person, even in his novels, take Gläserne Bienen for example, that feeling of alienation, the closeness to nature, the sense of belonging and also longing for companionship in a "strange" world, that's intensely human.
>>281784
Junger WW1 experience was very far from the whole triumphant "roll all over the nazis" american soldier experience.
>>281816
>my moustache itches
>I think I got Grabenfuß
>why can't I hold the dog for once
>I don't want to sit next to Hans, his grandfather's a Jew
>fuck I hate Jews
>I'm cold
>>281811
Hitler had problems with girls his entire life. Before the first world war, he would have his friend stalk his crush and report to him what she did throughout the day. He never had a gf until he was in the nazi party, and was considered very shy and beta. There is a lot of evidence that points to Hitler being autistic.
>>281816
>He was able to give charismatic speeches with the help of meth
Calling bullshit on that if you don't provide a source.
>I mean just look at that picture of him in WW1. Does that look like an alpha with leadership material?
He was a political genius by any measure. Within one year of getting into power he destroys everyone who opposes him and becomes absolute dictator and the people loved him for it. He had some serious skill in the political arena.
>>281823
To add to that, I'm >>281820, I recently read that book of that US sniper guy who got shot by a friend of his recently, I found his casual descriptions of gunning down towelheads and being all giddy about it a lot creepier than anything I've ever read by Jünger.
Jünger's writings, to me, always had soul, pathos. There was a sort of mutual respect and honour for the enemy there, if you will. Completely missing in most modern accounts of war I've seen.
>>281803
>tfw you just know the Red Army got a taste of those nubile bodies
delicious
>>281803
What is this image from? I've been dying to know for years.
>>281803
>nude-german-girls-hitler-youth.jpg
>not "Der VerFührer.jpg"
One job senpai
>>281850
Not him, but I'm sure it's some modern internet fake/composite.
I mean, color photos were super ultra rare, and look different than modern stuff.
>>281838
Then why was he never promoted to corporal? His regiment was constantly losing men, yet he kept getting passed for promotion due to lack of leadership ability. This is fucking corporal, not even an officer rank, yet he can't do it. He could give prepared speeches but that's it. Everything else he had to have help with politically. At his heart he was still the loner homeless bohemian. You don't radically change your personality like that. He was 25 years old when WW1 broke out.
Fuck you captcha and your god damn street signs!
>>281872
Confusing political genius with leadership qualities in the field. Are you even trying?
>>281547
heavens mandate nigga
>>281883
If you can't even make corporal you clearly lack the social skills to navigate the political scene. On paper some of his ideas worked, but in practice Hitler was beta as fuck.
These street sign captchas are really starting to piss me off. Do they make them more difficult and confusing the more you post or something?
>>281903
Yes, it's Google's personal agenda to stop you from shitposting Anon.
Or Hiroshima wants to make you buy a pass so he can use your Visa to buy Korean prostitutes and blow.
>>281903
>lack the social skills to navigate the political scene.
Social skills are not that neccesary, politics is an profession full of autists anyway. He navigated the political scene very well. Just look how he outplayed Heugenberg, von Papen, the SA leadership and other troublemakers. All within a year, that is not the hallmark of some beta fuck.
>>281872
Hitler was apparently good enough at his low-ranking job to survive the war. The messages he carried probably saved soldiers' lives.
Meanwhile Churchill was abysmal at his high-ranking WWI desk job which got thousands of men killed.
By the logic of not being good at what you're doing before becoming a leader translating into not being a good leader, Churchill should have been worse than Hitler and Mussolini.
>>281903
Political skills are more about being cunning, ruthless and proactive. Social skillz are only that important for middle-management.
>>281666
Satan trips is right. I don't think of Genghis as a "hero" by any means, but I can recognize his immense contribution to history and think it's interesting how powerful a single man became.
Also, it's a little inspiring that he (allegedly) came up from a herder of only 5 horses to the Flail of God.
No one says Alexander was a shitty conqueror, but keep in mind he was literally handed one of the most advanced armies of the time and a plan to kick Persia in the dick from his father.
>>281923
Ok lets assume you're right. But why for the first 29 years of his life was he such a beta fuck? What gave him the ability to radically transform like that?
I'm gonna stop posting because I'm tired and these captchas are pissing me off. But just consider what I said. It's quite the feat don't you think? If you studied his early life you would not expect that out of Hitler.
>>281635
thats pretty fucking neat.
>>281672
i wouldnt say self defence, but he didnt do genocide.
also its about 12 million in the holocaust, 6 million jews, 6 million others like gypsies, gays, lefties, rhineland bastards, poles, slavs and Jehovah witnesses and some asocials.
>forgive
No, but history about Nazi Germany will change overtime, just like all other history.
It's too close to our own time to be portrayed in a different way than it already has.
>>281936
Difference is he had a cause, before WWI he was a loser who indeed you wouldn't expect a lot from. Because the Germans lost WWI he became determined to restore Germany to it's rightful place.
Anyway good night.
>>281547
Genocide didn't exist as an idea during Khans, and napoleons times, even though they were probably guilty as Hitler in that sense.
So its overlooked.
>>281756
>Even in the medical field since the invaluable knowledge collected by the Germans on their experiments on the volunteer soldiers and then the various people that were under Germany that gave a vast pool of test subjects.
to be honest fambam, we briefly talked about this in my Bioethics course once and the professor said there were dubious benefits to the "tests" run by Mengele.
>>281658
>>"sure, he killed a lot of people, but didn't everybody back then?"
That's not a bad description of early to mid 20th century Europe
>>281620
It's semi-canon that Genghis was elevated to a Daemon Prince of Khorne named Doombreed
>>281601
World War II reshaped Europe and ended the thousands of years old tradition of conquest as a means of gaining power.
>>281635
Fuck, I can imagine Mongols raiding my town.
>>281635
mongolian throat singing is GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Dxs6vW6YQ
>>282149
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el93MIxAf-c
I don't think Gengis Khan was evil. Most of his slaughtering was retribution. For example the Khwarzmians or however you pronounce it he had originally simply tried to open trade with them but they repeatedly executed his ambassadors hence the invasion and brutality. Also everyone did it at the time, you had to look tough to survive it was just that Khan conquered so many places that his kill list snowballed. If a king of England had conquered as much as he did they would have looked just as bloody.
As for Napoleon nobody ever thought he was evil even when he was alive. He had great respect from his enemies. Hitler now is a different beast, he was actually trying to exterminate anyone who wasn't white which is most of the planet. Nothing to do with the war effort he just wanted to kill people.
>>281633
He didn't get rejected because he was bad, he was rejected because he painted mostly buildings and they were looking for abstract expressionism. They recommended architecture, but he decided against it, since he didn't have enough schooling for it. Likely the reason he went for art school first.
>>281574
>"""six million"""
>"""innocent"""
>>281754
Brit here and it's true, a united continent is our worst nightmare because we know we will be swallowed up. We have fought it for so long but now it's finally over as the EU has got their tentacles around us.
>>281936
you seem determined to prove that Hitler was an autist just like yourself. Sorry friend Hitler was an on-the-ball guy, he was not a beta therefore he is not proof that betas can succeed. Sorry.
>>281936
I don't know, he served in the first world war, was wounded and still went back into the field while wounded, got a medal and then became the leader of Germany, how's that "beta"?
Napoleon and Hitler at least had some ideals. Call them insane, twisted, psychopathic, whatever, but they clearly had a moral system and were doing shit for what they considered to be the greater good.
Genghis Khan on the other hand was nothing but a rape machine.
Probably but more than likely people just won't care
No one forgives ghengis khan, or napoleon. Just no. Fuck you nazis
>>281631
those who would be angry were either dead or grateful they chose peaceful subjugation
>>281850
>Then why was he never promoted to corporal?
>Why was a non-connected non-aristocrat never promoted to Officer during WW1?
Wanna know how I know that you know nothing about the era that you're talking about?
Hitler was a big proponent of "democratizing" the Wehrmacht in so far as merit-based promotions went. I find it very unlikely that his experiences in WW1 didn't have something to do with that.
>You don't radically change your personality like that. He was 25 years old when WW1 broke out.
>One of the most traumatic wars in all of human history wouldn't change a person's personality.
Just stop please.
Also, where is your source for Hitler being on meth prior to WW2 breaking out? I know it's a meme to say this, but honestly reddit might be more your speed.
>>281547
Not that I can imagine, but I don't think Napoleon is forgiven, just forgotten.
>>282249
Well everyone used the old starve out but it's important to note that mongolian armies weren't made entirely out of horse archers or anything. They are pretty bad at holding locations.
Someone's been listening to based Dan Carlin
>>282156
>"""actually trying to exterminate everyone that wasn't white"""
>>282156
Retribution for what? Not wanting to get conquered?
>>281574
come on friend, dont believe the jewish lies
do some research
>>282210
Genghis Khan had also an ideal - unite the whole world under the mongol banner.
And unlike Napolean and Hitler, he and his sons came pretty close to that.
>>281789
fuck off elliot
>>282249
>How well did the Mongols do in siege combat then?
Meh. IIRC they brought some Chinese engineers in tow as they went westward and as such they were able to perform siege warfare of a certain fashion but it certainly wasn't their strong suit.
>Did they just starve everyone?
That's pretty much the objective of any siege, anon.
>>281666
Well I can't agree with you guys really. Certainly he isn't idolized as a hero, but more or like he's thought of as a badass, cool crazy guy. I've heard that lots of people in Russia used to do DNA tests to check if they have his DNA in their blood. That was sort of a trend. I think general population do like him.
Meanwhile Hitler is mostly recognized as that one evil man who killed jews
>>282354
you can want whatever you want but if you put up a fight your options get worse
>>282156
>the Khwarzmians or however you pronounce it he had originally simply tried to open trade with them but they repeatedly executed his ambassadors hence the invasion and brutality
assholes vs assholes
>>282156
>Hitler now is a different beast, he was actually trying to exterminate anyone who wasn't white which is most of the planet
Cool meme
>>282514
Vedic Aryans are... Aryan.
>>282527
what?
>>281573
>we see him as a hero
no
Hitler was openly fuelled by resentiment unlike the others.
>>281547
History isn't a fucking entity, it has no capacity for forgiveness or the opposite.
>>282158
He was rejected because he fucking sucked at painting buildings.
>>282311
In that episode, he mentions how he had a Chinese history professor or something, who read his glorification of the Mongol conquests, and his professor said to him something along the lines of "Those countless millions were my countrymen." It really depends on what perspective you look at these conquerors.
>>282514
>Cool meme
Sure it's a meme. It's not as if Hitler himself dedicated hundreds of speeches alluding to the idea.
>comparing Napoleon to Hitler
>>281547
no. maybe if he didnt kill all those jews. plus he wasnt exactly a grand strategist either.
>>281620
>Guy's basically a Champion of Khorne, nobody thinks of him as a hero.
>Champion of Khorne
>Not considering such as a hero
Anon, are you Slaaneshi worshipper by any chance?
>>283426
Well, my favorite board before this one was /aco/ so...
>>282156
>he was actually trying to exterminate anyone who wasn't white
Why in the fuck is there so much bait on this board, fuck off to /pol/ or reddit or wherever you came from.
>>283426
>implying anything but Slaaneshi superiority
COME AND HEAR THE DIRGE OF SLAANESH
WUB WUB WUB WUB
>>281754
>>destroying Hitler who wants to unite Europe
>implying
>>282514
>implying they're not just cannon fodder
>>281726
>Hans
Mehmet
>>282514
>Hitler let them die for him, so he was totally not racist!
>>281547
No, on account of the Jews.
Napoleon didn't practice any kind of mass extermination. Hell, of the seven Wars of Coalition, five were defensive on Napoleon's part.
Genghis Khan, meanwhile, is generally forgiven because he was a barbarian from the steppes. No one expects much of a barbarian from the steppes. We had low expectations for him to begin with in terms of how a person should treat other people. Surprisingly he actually generally met it, though. His small acts of kindness or restraint stand out as a result.
Hitler, on the other hand...
Germany wasn't some backwater frontier. It was the center of Europe. It was a fully industrialized nation that had been industrializing along with the rest of Europe, keeping pace and even surpassing on occasion. It was for centuries the center of philosophy and science. It wasn't like Japan, which went from Medieval technology to becoming a Great Power in less than 100 years, and so was unreasonable to think that they would act any different.
Germany should have *known better*. Hitler should have known better. But he didn't. He reverted to a level of barbarity and cruelty that the rest of Europe had largely left behind, or at least had the decency to acknowledge as barbaric and cruel.
And thus, history will never forgive Hitler.
Additionally, at the end of the day, Napoleon surrendered before too much damage could be done to France, seeing the writing on the wall and understanding that an Emperor's first duty is to protect his people. Sure, he tried to stage a comeback, but again, when he knew he was beaten, he folded.
Hitler honestly wanted the German people to die for failing to win WWII.
>>282818
The term "Aryan" refers to an Indo-European group that originated somewhere in central to west Europe. They entirely migrated to India over the course of a few thousand years.
Hitler argued that there were Aryans who stayed behind in Europe, however, and these Aryans were the German people. However to him, both Vedic Aryans and German Aryans would, in fact, be Aryans: different branches of the same ethnically superior tree.
>>283481
*East Europe, not west. Mea culpa.
>>282158
>they were looking for abstract expressionism
IT DIDN'T EVEN EXIST YOU FUCKING RETARD
I think it depends.
If we ever get a regime with comparable motives - not necessarly "kill all jews" or nazis at all but anything ideologically comparable to nazism - history might emphasize different parts of him.
Our views of historical figures constantly change with the values of the society. Alexander the Great has been getting a bad wrap academically the last few decades since imperialism fell out of fashion, for example.
>>281547
No, because he was shit.
>>281573
Actually it was closer to 17%, but yeah. People don't praise Temujin for spreading literacy or anything like they do for Alexander. They just see him as a fucking badass, because... he was. Hitler's coked-up paranoia, autistic micromanagement and inability to run a stable nation make him a JOKE compared to how ruthlessly meritocratic and practical Ghengis was for his day.
>>282818
>the place where europeans adopted the term aryan from is not aryan
>only iranians and north europeans are aryan
>>281601
>Hitler did not many any lasting impacts on the world
Changed the course of European history as we know.
WWII was one of the most significant events in human history and it is tied into the Cold war another hugely significant event. As a figure central to WWII he will most certainly be remembered, as to how kindly, quite possibly a little more fairly as the past grows more distant and people less connected through the generations and the cultural bias war (muh evil nazis in videogames) dies out as well.
>>281672
>Ghengis probably conduced countless big scale massacre
>probably
It's less disputed than the holocaust numbers.
>>281547
I don't think he'll ever be a hero, but give it a few hundred years and he won't be the villian anymore.
>>281547
Dan, pls stop shilling for hilter apologism.
>>281601
>effectively ended colonialism
>turned european optimism on it's head
>gave rise to the pacifist and antinationalist movements
>by proxy, is causing the downfall of the west
>helped turn the US into one of two big players
>strengthened the CCCP's rule
>caused the german people shame for decades
>became an argument ender for decades to come
>>282177
He was the on ball after WW1. I'm looking for what radically changed a 29 year old who was homeless and no friends prior. I mention the age we usually stop growing at 25 with the prefrontal cortex finally developing. At 25, it was the start at of WW1 and throughout the war he was described he same way as he was prior: loner, aloof, weird.
>>281547
Doubtful, because Hitler never really improved anything In the lands he took over. Also unlike Napoleon, it didn't take the whole european world to defeat him, he lost due to trying to backstab an even more ruthless mother fucker and the rest of the allies only joined in so said ruthless mother fucker cant claim all of the land after the dust settled.
>>281547
No.
>>283294
Please point me in the direction of such.
>>283681
Pretty much. Had he not come to power, or had he not fucked it all up, Europe would probably still be the number 1 power in the world.
>>281547
No, history is written by victors, and the biggest victors of WW2 were the jewish people.
>>281713
wat
>>281547
When were they forgiven?
>>285478
Effectively forgiven. Khan's reputation is primarily as "world's greatest conqueror" and not "butcher of entire civilizations." Napoleon is remembered as arguably the greatest general in history (certainly one of the greatest,) not usually as the guy who tried to pull off "on European neck a Frankish yolk." Although I will say I think comparing Napoleon to Hitler is insulting to Napoleon in numerous ways, not least that France was at least partly acting in self-defense, and didn't try to exterminate entire races.
>>282090
You mean WWI. WWII was just a rematch by sore losers.
>>285497
I have a suspicion that the great amount of revisionism surrounding Genghis Khan is a result of deliberate anti-european bias in academia.
I doubt Genghis's legacy would've been so favorably reevaluated had he been european.
>>281941
>also its about 12 million in the holocaust, 6 million jews, 6 million others like gypsies, gays, lefties, rhineland bastards, poles, slavs and Jehovah witnesses and some asocials.
Prove this please.
>>285497
>a Frankish yolk
10/10
>>285512
>I have a suspicion that the great amount of revisionism surrounding Genghis Khan is a result of deliberate anti-european bias in academia.
Which is funny because when you ask Asians about it they have no good things to say either.
>>283470
Other interesting parallels:
Russians burned Moscow to stop Napoleon from conquering them.
Genghis burned cities that refused to surrender to him.
Hitler wanted to burn Paris when Germany started getting its ass kicked.
>>285512
Westerners have been massive Mongolaboos since Marco Polo at least, or more likely as soon as news of a great eastern army razing muslim cities reached Europe.
Genghis Khan was the Assad of his time.
No you retards
>>281547
No, because he didnt do fucking anything useful.
>>285517
>Prove this please.
Have we really fallen so down the rabbit hole that people forget that the Holocaust was not aimed at Jews, but at "undesirables," of which Jews were only one group? Or am I being taken on a ruse cruise?
>>283481
God, I hate what the Nazis did with "Aryan." When people talk about Germans being Aryans my blood just fucking boils. I try to explain that only the Indo-Europeans to the east of the Caspian have any claim to the name "Arya," but no, it's like the damn Swastika now. People just flip their shit whenever they see one, even if it's used in its traditional positive context.
>>281569
Probably to a degree once we're removed enough from those generations. He'll always be seen as one of the "bad guys", though.
>the year is 2800
>mankind is living on other planets
>kids in school still have to read about big bad Hitler and the 6 gorillion
>>281547
Not if Isreal has anything to do with it.
I m not big fan of comparing these personalities from history. Especially not Napoleon and Hitler. Napoleon is a progressive force in history. Hitler ...
>>287642
>the state of israel is forcing a view of history on the rest of the world
They can't even force it on their immediate neighbours.
I don't know what kind of retard you are, but you have been detected.
>>281921
shit posting again aren't ya?
>>282830
>no
Right.
>>281547
>Do you think history would forgive Hitler like it did to Napoleon
America was on the side of Napoleon. Hence 6 million Jews didn't die in the Revolution, only Christians were murdered en masse, which is good for Jews and Americans.
>>281789
>harem like chad thundercock
toppest kek
>>281831
Pretty weird desu,he can speak in public with thousand of peoples and yet a typical /r9k/
>>281929
Churchill also fought at the front, in the trenches, after Gallipoli.
>>288319
That's just Mongolia because without Genghis they have
>No relevance
>Noculture
Germany was relevant before Hitler, and after, so it's not the same.
>>281547
No, because Napoleon was competent, whereas Hitler was incompetent.
>>288342
So what? That doesn't mean there won't be a statue of him standing around in Germany in a 1000 years.
As the distance between the morality of his actions as dictator increases, people's ambivalence towards those actions also increase.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but there it is. Americans also praise their Founding Fathers even though they literally owned people as property, and that's only barely 200 years ago.
>>288359
calling other people faggots for not liking the opposite sex
oy vey
>>288344
>Napoleon
His campaign into the East in 1798 was one of total incompetence.
He also made rash decisions which led to wholesale destruction of his forces on many occasions.
>>288365
>not liking the opposite sex
Animals need to reproduce early, you would have man like a beast.
>>288247
Not him, but he does have a somewhat valid point. Israel is never going to forget Hitler.
>>288367
That is quite true. Strategically, he made numerous errors. However, at the tactical level, at the level of salvaging a battle, he was almost always extremely skilled.
>>288472
Neither will people forget Napoleon or Genghis Khan, they'll just stop caring that much after a couple more generations.
the huge difference between genghis and hitler is mongols used raping and pillaging as a mean to subdue ppl
no systematic killings, no plans, no experiences
hitler and the nazis conquered and then turned ppl into ashes, lame
napoleon has nothing to do with the other 2
just how stupid and undeducated you need to be to even come up with this question?
Nobody who makes war should ever be forgiven. That's just my two cents. There's enough savagery already in the world, no need for two abstract concepts like states to squabble over each other and then settle it by sending young men into a human meat grinder.
>>281547
Well for starters he didn't really conquer shit as much as just walk in pretty much undefended land, as soon as he got resistance Hitler was stopped.
I don't know why the holocaust is only tied to him specifically but he will never be as much as looked up to by future aspiring generals or something, he just was fast enough in the beginning and then lost, Napoleon was strategic mastermind and a great leader he's leagues above Hitler
>>281872
Go to settings and select legacy captcha, gives you the numbers back, I recently learned this, makes 4chan fun again.
>>285512
Like we don't glorify Rome.
>>281547
nope cuz systematic genocide>war extermination
also, Napo was closer to the middle age barbarian-yurop-era, people think it's normal by then, Hitler did it fucking XX century, they even have to invent the word "genocide" for what he did
You should stop answering to these bait threads. We're clearly being raided by /pol/. Look at the catalog. It's like 60% Hitler.
>>289845
>they even have to invent the word "genocide" for what he did
lolwat? that term was invented to describe the Armenian genocide.
>>281547
Conquerors are forgiven by their own countries but not by history. In 200 years there will be statues of Hitler all over Germany and Austria, and the rest of the world will see him just as an important historical figure. Historians will tell the laymen about the awful things he did, but by and large people won't care.
>>291279
>but by and large people won't care.
Likely because the atrocities of the 21st century will greatly overshadow those of the 20th in both scale and brutality. So we will only look at them through the prism of far worse crimes. And thus as Napoleon's 'oppressive regime' looks comically ineffective when compared with modern fascism so will we view Hitler through the same lens.
>>288358
>Americans also praise their Founding Fathers even though they literally owned people as property, and that's only barely 200 years ago.
Burger here, our Founders tended to be remorseful about it, though. And freed their slaves after death, at least in the case of Washington.
Nobody but Speer ever regretted what they did amongst the Reich leaders.
>>283426
>>283444
Disguisting.
>>283444
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGRsDe3iRw
>>281666
Pretty much this.
>>281789
>Chlodwig Sturmpiken
>>291310
Except Napoleon's regime was among the less oppressive of his time
Can't be said fot Hitler
>>283538
This. Temujin was a once in a generation Genius who was able to take the poorest people on earth and lash them together into a something resembling a modern military and intelligence network with s function in state that managed to break all of the rules and get away with it.
Hitler fell for the world's first post modern philosophy, constructed based upon ideals rather than knowledge and despite its fearsome military might, it was a basket case.
>>281771
it was about to make me cry. i probably will cry desu.
>>288340
you forgot to add the beaches, streets, hills and never surrender part anon
>kek
>>281595
>It's the story from zero to hero of Hitler story might make him more liked in the future.
I think so too.
Right now, Hitler is too demonized to look at him in a neutral light, but in the future things will be different.
The idea of a literal nobody and failure rising to the top of a country and waging one of the most destructive wars in the history of mankind is definitely appealing.
>>285344
Not really. The US were already going to take over after WW1.
>>281840
Junger was an intellectual though. A highly intelligent man with a humanist education. He could put things into words. Even Brecht respected him. There is no comparison with that sniper guy.
>>282158
Is that pic implying Hitler was the one who united Germany?
>>292745
To be fair: Hitler created a Greater Germany. And he did so for nationalist reasons.
Bismarck's Germany emerged from political pragmatism. It wasn't a true German nation state.
>>291253
> Genocide has become an official term used in international relations. The word "genocide" was not in use before 1944. Before this was established, Winston Churchill referred to it as a crime with no name. In that year, a Polish-Jewish lawyer named Raphael Lemkin, described the policies of systematic murder founded by the Nazis as genocide. The word genocide is the combination of the Greek word "geno" (meaning tribe or race) and “caedere” (the Latin word for to kill). The word is defined as a specific set of violent crimes that are committed against a certain group with the attempt to remove the entire group from existence or to destroy them.
> The word “genocide” was later included as a descriptive term to the process of indictment, but not yet as a formal legal term
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007043
>>291310
I totally agree with your logic but
>Likely because the atrocities of the 21st century will greatly overshadow those of the 20th
this is not going to happen
>>281547
I feel like he will never be forgiven given the fact that we have such a vast amount of information about what he did and how he did it. Also the fact that it was the systematic extermination of a race, and not just the by-product of conquest, no fucking way will he be forgiven.
>>292757
Nice mental gymnastics lad
>>292822
How exactly am I wrong?
>>292805
And yet the "rock solid" information continues to fluctuate. Until recently it was well understood that every single camp was a death camp. Now, as it turns out, only the Soviet held camps were.
But yes, Hitler has had an enormous impact on culture and is the de facto villain. For now. Historian channel is making a show detailing Hitler's escape from Germany to Argentina where he tries to continue murdering Jews. Eventually people are simply going to stop giving a shit about the Holocaust. What makes it worse than any other genocide or mass murder?
He might not be forgiven but calling someone "Literally Hitler" will certainly at some point be the equivalent of calling someone "Literally Saladin" or "Literally Genghis Khan".
>>292890
Not to mention that Hitler is mostly demonized in the western world. In the Arabic world he's seen very differently and in Asia he's mostly regarded a dictator like many others, with no such strong feelings like in the west. If the western influence diminishes, then the view of Hitler will also be affected by it.
>>282158
I think admissions was just corrupt as fuck. It's well known that the art industry is rife with money laundering. With the state Germany was in during those years I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia just dropped any and all subtlety.
>>293679
>boring, bland, rudimentary work with questionable perspective
vs
>vibrant, intriguing, expressive, original stuff
>>281547
No, because an ideological system is currently in power and looks to be for the forseeable future that benefits greatly from the villianizaion of Hitler and the nationalist right, or rather that needs to villainize Hitler and his ilk to prevent a meaningful opposition to them from becoming socially acceptable.
>>283538
>recovered from the worst case of hyperinflation in history
>produced tanks more advanced than any rival military power
>produced world class scientists
>reunited a disjoint population
>enacted socialist policies that liberals are pushing for today, more than 70 years later
>autobahn
>trains
>made germany a world economic power in less than 10 years after the unjust treaty
>work-backed currency to pull the nation up by its own bootstraps
>inability to run a stable nation
>comparing Hitler to Ghenghis in the first place
>>288358
The founding fathers also freed the people from perpetual debt to the Red Shield and underwent swift growth away from fucking England. Too bad about 1913.
The Founding Fathers are actually under criticism at some American universities, I don't know if you know about that. Students are posting sticky-notes on their statues saying things like "sexist", or "racist".
>>288564
>will literally let himself be enslaved to avoid a fight
christ
>>292791
>he thinks everything will be peaceful
cute
>>292192
Mate, if you want to die for a cause that's fine with me, go do it. When you try to force me to go along with your retarded moralistic crusade is where I draw the line.
>>293679
Hitler's paintings were nice, but what are they trying to convey? That buildings are pretty? There's more to art than simple competence.
>>293705
>thinking his work is unacceptable for entry into first year university
I bet you think STEM students should have mandatory arts electives as well.
>>281547
One emancipated them, the other tried to exterminate them so no.
>>284754
here you go anon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AFhwwgL-94 (right around 50 seconds)
english text: http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic519973.files/Hitler%20speech%20to%20the%20Reichstag%20Jan.%2030%201939.pdf
>>281547
Another 200-300 years and he'll be abother historical character
>>293744
>recovered from the worst case of hyperinflation in history
Germany had already recovered from that
>produced tanks more advanced than any rival military power
so advanced that they couldn't be repaired in the field
>produced world class scientists
only to persecute them, and have them flee the country
>reunited a disjoint population
by getting rid of everyone who was not German enough
>enacted socialist policies that liberals are pushing for today, more than 70 years later
killing the weak for the betterment of society?
>autobahn
for transportation of his troops
>trains
everyone had trains you goose
>made germany a world economic power in less than 10 years after the unjust treaty
by spending uncontrollably through borrowing, and when it came to pay the bills he just annexed or invaded a country and repeated the same process
>work-backed currency to pull the nation up by its own bootstraps
I don't know what you mean
>inability to run a stable nation
you are right he was unable to run a nation, he took one of the more power countries in Europe and in the span of 12 years led it into complete destruction
Not "forgive". We still see Genghis Khat et al as assholes, we've just stopped giving a shit about them. It'll take several generations of course until people would desensitize over all the fucked-up things Hitler and his posse have done.
>>293744
but like... half of those are not true
hyperinflation was tackled by the prenazi government
germany was by no means a world economic power thanks to hitler "less than 10 years" after the treaty (which was by no means unjust)
world class scientists were produced all around the first world, and most of the german ones before the nazi regime
autobahn was once again a prenazi project, in fact, hitler and co. opposed the large scale construction projects originally!
advanced tanks? certainly not in the first three or so years of the war, possibly for a while in the middle of the war, and once again not in the late war
>>294375
Also making Germany into a world economic power after a recession is not that great of an achievement considering Germany had been the most industrialized country in the world for decades, its not like Stalin who actually took a backwards piece of shit country and made it into a world power.
>>281574
No he killed six million. Of which two million were Jews.
>>281547
History never really forgave Genghis and Napoleon outside of places that romanticized them to begin with. Everyone just stopped caring enough to be butthurt about them.
Likewise the best Hitler can hope for is when everyone alive during WW2 and their grandkids have died that he stops being the universal standard for evil.
>>281563
Timur, Babur, and Aurangzeb slaughtered scores of Indians and forced them to convert but they're still seen as heroes in Pakistan.
>>281666
>>281620
>Nobody really sees genghis khan as a hero
>>288342
>Germany was relevant before Hitler, and after, so it's not the same.
Germans are completely irrelevant after Hitler, they are kekolds that honor BBC and build mosques. (they also get get arrested for hate speech)
"German culture" nowadays is worst PC culture on the planet.
They are much worse then a nation of nomads who is not afraid of putting up statues of their greatest leader.
>>293679
>someone actually made this thinking they would prove a point
I'm not even a stormfag, but Hitler is one of my greatest inspirations. I've read a few biographies about him and I can absolutely relate to his life, it's scary how similar he was to me personality-wise.
I'm not standing by the actions he did, but a nobody to the leader of a nation that had the potential to absolutely destroy the world and become the new world power is pretty amazing.
>>283470
This. The fact that modern, civilized tools of industry were used to murder millions was the most shocking part of the war for many.
>>281547
Kids are raised to not like him. With just how PC society is getting, I doubt it'll ever let up.
>>293804
world powers are not going to war never again
the shit now is blown up guerillas with missiles in the other side of the world
people will never think of them as much how they think about what nazis did to the frenchs
>>296712
>le end of history meme
>>281601
>Hitler did not make any lasting impacts on the world
