Why has this been allowed?
I'm looking at you, Fritz.
Eat shit Ivan.
Powerful people dividing up lands
Ruse devised by the German General Staff. They weren't even trying to hide it ffs.
USSR and Russia extending their territory by incorporating it into Ukraine.
It's somewhat ironic how Ukrainians dislike Russians but Russia essentially created modern day Ukraine.
>>269837
>Ruse devised by the German General Staff and Austrians (who else)
Fixed
>>269824
A group of people who speak a common language, share a common history and culture, and are (somewhat) willing to defend their area with an organized political and military structure.
Is there some epic mayms I am missing?
>>269824
Ukis are based. I know most people here have severe autism that won't allow them to see things that require them to think even a little bit.
>>269845
>common language
Indistinguishable from Russian
>share a common history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus'
>and culture
Russian
>>269850
>indistinguishable
OK, so we can't have Ireland, Switzerland, Belgium, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Moldova, Cyprus or Montenegro existing no, can we?
>>269850
>not knowing who Mazepa is
>Not knowing what the Commonwealth was
>no realizing Ruthenia was its own thing
You stupid fucking shit.
>>269850
Kievan Rus =/= Russia
Kievan Rus was a state that modern Ukraine, Russia and Belarus claim their heritage from. After centuries they developed their own cultural distinctions. Russia is huge, you would have to be an autist to think that the people in Ukraine didn't develop their own version of the same culture that they shared previously, they identified with their homeland and wanted to be ruled from Kiev, not St. Petersburg or Moscow.
>>269845
The Gross Germania autism meme, only the Russian version
>>269858
its people who know meme history, the same people who think only Serbia and Greece should exist on the Balkans because >>>>le epic kebeb remover, people who make maps where they just blob several countries together into a "German federation" "New Viking Scandinavia" e.t.c. Similar cultures and lots of borders disturb their autism.
>>269876
>Kebeb remover
Yeah, OK. That only served to radicalize the very non-radical Balkans Muslims. Worst decision possible. I mean shit, Kosovo instated mandatory 25-year prison sentences for people who join ISIS, the Balkans was never a religious melting pot, it was a nationalist one.
>blob several countries
At one point a shitload of /pol/ threads were exactly like that. Funny thing is they HATE the EU but they wank to weird nationalist/confederate fantasy lands like that. It's funny how they always bring up 1984 but fail to realize how they themselves doublethink.
>>269899
>Yeah, OK. That only served to radicalize the very non-radical Balkans Muslims.
Muslims weren't radical because of communism, before that, when the muslims were in charge they shat on everyone not muslim.
> I mean shit, Kosovo instated mandatory 25-year prison sentences for people who join ISIS, the Balkans was never a religious melting pot, it was a nationalist one.
Kosovo is a US military base, a huge number of ISIS volunteers are from Kosovo. Kosovar Albanians have a 16th century mentality, they are all about honor killings, marrying virgins and having 17 kids with their sisters.
In the Balkans, religion was the cause of nationalism. First it was an orthodox struggle agains the muslims. When national churches were created it moved from religion to nation, but it was stilly largely religious. Then when the mulsims were gone, there was no need for a religious struggle. So a nationalist struggle ensued about "lost homelands" and ethnic territories.
>At one point a shitload of /pol/ threads were exactly like that. Funny thing is they HATE the EU but they wank to weird nationalist/confederate fantasy lands like that. It's funny how they always bring up 1984 but fail to realize how they themselves doublethink.
There is no sense in talking about /pol/tards. They are just /pol/tards
>>269906
>a huge number of ISIS volunteers are from Kosovo
Stats please
> Kosovar Albanians have a 16th century mentality, they are all about honor killings, marrying virgins
I might be wrong on this, but gjakmarrja is not specific to Kosovo. What I mean is they don't hold it as much as they do in the more mountainous regions of Albania
>having 17 kids with their sisters.
Settle down Cletus, this ain't Alabama
>In the Balkans, religion was the cause of nationalism.
Bullshit
>First it was an orthodox struggle agains the muslims. When national churches were created it moved from religion to nation, but it was stilly largely religious.
OOOO, so that's why Orthodox Bulgaria wants a shitload of lands from their pesky heathen pagan neighbors Romania, Greece, Macedonia and Serbia. That must be it
>Then when the mulsims were gone, there was no need for a religious struggle. So a nationalist struggle ensued about "lost homelands" and ethnic territories.
You have made no correlation between this and your previous point. Discarded.
>There is no sense in talking about /pol/tards. They are just /pol/tards
On this we agree
>>269824
A better question would be: Why does Belarus exist?
most people there speak russian as a first language
Source: I've been in Belarus multiple times(and am half belarussian)
>>269941
>OOOO, so that's why Orthodox Bulgaria wants a shitload of lands from their pesky heathen pagan neighbors Romania, Greece, Macedonia and Serbia. That must be it
What? I told you specifically that religious struggle became a nationalist struggle. Im from the Balkans, every countries national revival started as a religious revival first, and became a nationalist revival later. Bulgaria wants lands that they claim were inhabited by Bulgarians, this goes with what i said about religious nationalism becoming ethnic nationalism.
>Settle down Cletus, this ain't Alabama
Alabama has nothing on Kosovo. Ablanians are the most inbred people on the Balkans.
>>269906
As a Serb in Bosnia I can agree with you at least 90%.
>>270069
>Serb in Bosnia
Holy shit mayne, you have a hard life. I'm just a mongrel Serb and I had to take a lot of a shit as a kid during the NATO bombardments.
>>270095
I guess I had it good actually. Living in a peaceful homogenous part that didn't see much combat. The town was liberated in like 4 days. But! People did look at me sideways in Austria when I mentioned I was a Serb... I guess it's worse in the "West".
![424-6-2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9XDP14w.jpg "424-6-2[1].jpg")
>>269839
>Russia essentially created modern day Ukraine
>mfw a Muscovite claims uniting Ukraine near me
>>269824
Read something like Brzeziński. The US-strategy is completely transparent: Support democratic movements in former Sowjet sattelites and crush it in your own client states.
Nato is expanding, Ukraine and Georgia are the next ones targeted. I suppose you all know what happpened 1990 between Gorbatschov and Bush and what were the conditions of a united Germany.
I understand that Ukrainians want more political freedom and wealth by joining the EU. But Russia's response is more than understandable. It's not like Putin is some maniac, his decisions on Crimea were very sober and predictable. Ukraine should remain neutral to preserve the peace in the region, but of course we don't want that.
The same thing happened 1954. The US declined the Stalin-note which called for a neutral, reunited Germany because they were sure they'd get the Eastern part soon anyway.
>>269839
Ukraine was independent from the Soviet Union in its conception.
>>271071
The entire thread is pure autism. Continue dropping the deep historical understanding you acquired from Wikipedia, clown
>>271058
>Support democratic movements in former Sowjet sattelites and crush it in your own client states.
Because Russia and the USSR didn't do exactly the same shit in the last 100 years, right.
>>269824
This looks like an outdated map.
>>271058
>Ukraine should remain neutral to preserve the peace in the region, but of course we don't want that
Russia does not want that. Russia without Ukraine, as Brzezinski himself said too , it not an empire, it's nothing. Russia can lose Central Asia, even Belarus, but Ukraine is where you kill it for good. Also it just so happens that Ukrainians got tired of Russians exploiting them in essentially a colonial way.
Don't try to put some NATO expansion nonsense together with that.
>>271327
>Don't try to put some NATO expansion nonsense together with that.
I hope you are trolling. The truth is in the middle; and although Russia is extorting Ukraine for decades, half of Ukraine still is ethnically Russian.
The conflict was present from the middle ages. And the religious/ethnical factor is very heavy in that zone.
Also, you don't have to be an expert on slav cultures or ex-soviet politics to recognize that the whole Kiev charade was done with western money. Sure; the frozen conflict was thawed by time - but it was ignited with IMF money and social media propaganda.
>>269876
A tendency you also see a lot of in grand strategy games forums where people seem to constantly talk about how to improve the AI so that it expands with "prettier" borders, even though most historical borders could not in any way be said to be pretty, or at least not in the way that they use the term.
And also in fantasy maps, where normally every distinct culture gets its own state and usually a very unique form of government which is not in any way similar to the government of its neighbours.
>>271346
>half of Ukraine still is ethnically Russian
77.8% of Ukrainians according to 2001 census, probably way more now. Language is different, example: Swedish language in Finland historically.
>The conflict was present from the middle ages.
Which fucking conflict? Civilization vs steppe? Ukrainians colonized steppes by the end of 18th century.
>And the religious/ethnical factor is very heavy in that zone.
It's not Balkans nigger.
>Also, you don't have to be an expert on slav cultures or ex-soviet politics to recognize that the whole Kiev charade was done with western money. Sure; the frozen conflict was thawed by time - but it was ignited with IMF money and social media propaganda.
Ingles, por favor.
Russia is a dying empire -> Russian wants to save itself -> Russia tries to cling to Ukraine in different ways -> Even open conflict does not succeed.
>>271058
>I suppose you all know what happpened 1990 between Gorbatschov and Bush and what were the conditions of a united Germany.
I honestly hope you're not bringing up the supposed treaty about NATO not expanding to the East, because that's a horseshit myth invented by Gorbachev in order to save his face and parroted by Russian propaganda machine ad nauseam.
The fact is no such treaty has ever been signed, highlighted by the fact Russians were never able to present a fucking copy of it.
And even IF it was signed, it would directly violate the international law as George Bush and James Baker weren't NATO representatives and couldn't legally bind other sovereign countries into signing or not signing treaties.
>>271346
>half of Ukraine still is ethnically Russian
It's not, it's actually less than 20% and probably even less with Crimea now being Russian.
The fact they speak Russian language doesn't mean dick if they still identify as Ukrainians, just like English-speaking negroes in Uganda are not English people.
>>271346
>Also, you don't have to be an expert on slav cultures or ex-soviet politics to recognize that the whole Kiev charade was done with western money. Sure; the frozen conflict was thawed by time - but it was ignited with IMF money and social media propaganda.
Jesus fucking Christ
Who started shooting people at Maidan square again?
If Yanukovich didn't chimp out it could be handled gracefully
>>271645
He'll just post slingshots, air rifles and other impro weapons now.
Ukrainian nationalists have been resisting Russian rule for how long now? I think they should be allowed to have their own country.
What do you guys think of Rusyns?
>>271693
They are nice
Interesting language and folklore, pretty girls
>>271693
They should either fuck off from Slovakia or declare independence.
>>271716
What? There is no fundamental difference between them and Eastern Slovaks, except Rusyns are Orthodox
>>271726
Greek catholic actually.
>>271693
I don't understand where the fuck they came from.
Rusyny was an ancient name for Ukrainians, used for the longest in Austria-Hungary and then Zakarpattia. Then some say there's a separate ethnicity called like that or some shit.
>>271726
They're a traitorous Russian fifth column in the country, see Vasil Bilak and those retards are still building him monuments 50 years after he sold out his home country. The fact they're also barely above Gypsies and haven't seen a flushing toilet until 30 years ago only contributes to their undesirability.
>Eastern Slovaks
Yeah, Slovakized Rusyns. Those should fuck off too for that matter. Everything east of Poprad should be just ceded to the Ukraine, they'll handle those faggots good.
>>271744
They are pre-ukranians that didn't want to change their names into Ukranian. Ukranians wanted to separate them selfs from Russians and Rusyn in their own language sounds the same as russian. Rusyns disagreed with the name and decided to be still called "rusnaci".
>>271753
You know that our country of 5.3 million has half a million of Gypsies and a similar sized population of Hungarians, right?
Our capital city is a provincial backwater compared to the capitals of all neighbouring countries
Yes, Easterners have a different temperament than us, but excluding them from the nation would be unfortunate
We are fucking lucky to have an independent country of our own
>>271831
>has half a million of Gypsies
Yeah and 70% of them live in the east lmao. Just throw that place into the trash, it's beyond useless.
>we are lucky to have a country
I don't know what's lucky about having that mismanaged shitheap. It should have never seceded from the monarchy.
>>271857
Hungarian part of the Monarchy was a poor agrarian shithole and the Upper Hungary after the 18th century was a shithole of a shithole. There was no universal suffrage until 1918 ffs. Russia tier
Since dissolution of Czechoslovakia our GDP per capita has jumped to the level almost comparable to Czechia
I don't like nationalism, corruption and conservativism either, but this scenario is the best for us
>>271925
Upper Hungary was the richest part of Hungary thanks to the massive mining industry. Notable exception being Budapest which became a capitalist's wet dream with all kind of insane development and adventurous building projects.
>There was no universal suffrage until 1918
Only nobles and burghers could vote. You're saying that like it's a bad thing.
>>271949
>Upper Hungary was the richest part of Hungary thanks to the massive mining industry.
That was the case only until the end of 18th century. Then the royal capital was moved from Pressburg to Budapest and industrial heartland of Hungary was shifted to Transylvania
I would acknowledge your position against universal suffrage if Hungarian administrion was somewhat effective and clean. It wasn't
Germans at least knew what is a good government, but alas we were stuck with Hungarians
>>271992
Well honestly anything is better than democracy.
>>272025
Economy proves you wrong
>>271992
There's a difference between resource based industry and manufacturing, you know. The poorest part of the country was actually Carpathian Ruthenia, always has been.
>>272049
Elaborate. If you equate democracy with capitalism you might proceed with evacuating yourself to the nearest trash can.
>>272053
>There's a difference between resource based industry and manufacturing, you know.
There definitely is and the former declined in importance
Forgive me that I'm not comparing once the richest part of Hungary to Carpathian Ruthenia
>>272062
The most prosperous countries with efficient and the least corrupt governments are democracies with the exception of Singapore
>>272049
>>272109
Well, you are one edgy kid
>>272117
>not liking our lord and savior Petr Cibulka (PBUH)
>>271753
>f Poprad should be just ceded to the Ukraine, they'll handle those faggots good.
As a hungarian, I support the dismemberment of Slovakia ;)
>>271925
>>271857
>>271992
I think the best way would had been if me make some kind of "Ukranian Great Britain", a Union within Hungarians, Slovakians, Russins and maybe the Chechs.
During the Monarchy its true than Hungary had a lot of poor land, but mostly becasue it had like 200 years of cathcing up to do.
Today, being sovereign may look like benefical from natsionalist and maybe economic standpoint, but as WW2 proved, these little countries have no way of defending themselves and are exploitable by the real powers, hell even today with the migrant shit, V4 was needed to have a stable viewpoint against it.
>>273328
>Ukranian Great Britain
I mean "Carphatian Great Britain", damn I'm tired.
>>272107
>exception of Singapore
Singapore still counts as a democracy. It is more authoritarian than others but you don't see things like mass jailing/political violence against the opposition which occurs in other authoritarian democracies.
>>271382
>that's a horseshit myth invented by Gorbachev in order to save his face and parroted by Russian propaganda machine ad nauseam.
>The fact is no such treaty has ever been signed, highlighted by the fact Russians were never able to present a fucking copy of it.
Apparently Gorbachev was told that in some private off-record conversation. The only problem was that it was a private opinion of whoever he was then talking with.
>>271645
>Jesus fucking Christ
>Who started shooting people at Maidan square again?
>If Yanukovich didn't chimp out it could be handled gracefully
It's even better. Maidan was initially small and boring. It was dying out and people were loosing interest. By late November 2013 only a few freezing students were left. It was only a matter of time when they too become bored and go home. And then suddenly on November 30th the Police entered Maidan and savagely beat the students. For absolutely no reason. It was the spark that ignited the massive Euromaidan.
Yanukovych was abroad when the beating happened. No one knows for sure, but it seems that mid-ranking officials of his clique wanted to give their boss a present upon returning home.
To be honest friend, I think the USSR should have never fallen.
>>271327
>Don't try to put some NATO expansion nonsense together with that.
I honestly don't see why the two are mutually exclusive.
>>269850
Their languages is completely different. Canadian Ukrianians who were not part of the Soviet occupation have a very hard time understanding Russian.
>>271058
The NATO expanding east myth is a probably the lie that sticks most with Russians today. Even Russia was offered membership yet no one talks about this but because of its attached cold war ideology being virtually the same it still thinks that Europe and the West is its enemy.
>>271346
>everyone in Ukraine is all happy and dandy
>Americans invest measly 5 billion (over the stretch of 20 years at that)
>suddenly civil war
You gotta be a retard to actually believe that. It's undeniable that the West definitely contributed to the shitstorm but only a mongoloid would believe they actually caused it.
>>273301
Hop on board.
