>you will never have a qt chinese revolutionary gf whose idealism and vision for a better world is beautiful, innocent and pure, while you both are sadly unaware of the incoming horrors of Maoism and are powerless to stop it
why even live
>>1393444
I know that feel and it saddens me greatly.
When's the new naively idealistic revolution gonna happen, folks? I need to escape this prison of nihilism.
>settling for some skinny bitch with a false understanding of leftism
>not settling for chulitas cubanas
>you will never go on LRRPs with Force Recon and call in Arc Lite runs on VC columns that had no idea you were even there
>>1393452
>that face
>that old fashioned rifle
fuck this gay earth
I don't care about how horrific Maoism became, i would fight a revolution with this qt
>>1393466
![woman-guard-wwii-monument[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/AeHi2iq.jpg "woman-guard-wwii-monument[1].jpg")
>>1393466
>>1393444
>settling for copy cat chinks and spcis
>not going for the original cute communist Russian gf
This is the worst thread I've ever come across on /his/
>>1393452
>When's the new naively idealistic revolution gonna happen, folks?
I've been wondering a lot about this myself. Last semester I took a course on the novel Doctor Zhivago, and doing so I learned a lot about the Russian Revolution and its causes. You hear about the thinkers and poets in the days before the Revolution, wondering and hoping about the revolutionary new world that they could hope to make. Many of them were genocidal maniacs, sure, but they were true idealists.
It made me realize how cynical and uninspired the modern world is. Sure, people often have vague notions of humanity and social good, but the idea of an animating ideology that could inspire people to sell away their soul or life is completely unthinkable to us.
Perhaps it's good that we aren't caught up in these ideas since most of them turned out badly, but I can't help but feel that there is a vast gulf between the world today and that of only a century ago, one that is hardly thought of, and cannot be truly comprehended.
>>1393472
>tfw
>>1393444
This is such a top feel for me
>tfw no thick revolutionary chinese gf
![Slavoj-Zizek-Portrait-Session[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pvWHeDV.jpg "Slavoj-Zizek-Portrait-Session[1].jpg")
>>1393504
Zizek talks about how when Marx stated that philosophers try to interpret the world and that the point is to change it, in response we tried too hard and attempted to change it too much too fast in the 20th century...the point now, perhaps, should be to keep interpreting it.
why do girls from communist countries like cuba, russia, china and eastern europe have such nice perky bodies, smooth skin and qt faces? yet have the shittiest personalities?
![Demick-The-Interview-1200-630-31104409[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/78BlR8q.jpg "Demick-The-Interview-1200-630-31104409[1].jpg")
>>1393444
>you will never have a North Korean spy mistress gf who hates the totalitarian regime she works for like in The Interview
>>1393492
Well. Welcome to /his/, enjoy your stay. You're in for a wild ride in the coming weeks, but soon we'll learn the depths that this board can sink together.
>>1393527
>pointing his AK directly at that lady
I guess this chink never took his weapon safety course. I wonder what his trigger discipline is like.
>beautiful, innocent, and pure
>culture destroying iconoclasts who gleefully persecuted artists and intellectuals
This wasn't a hidden horror of Maoism either. It's in the fucking book.
>>1393519
>the point now, perhaps, should be to keep interpreting it.
I feel like that's just an excuse to sit around and mouth off about whatever you like while the world rolls on behind you. It's capitulation to the status quo
>>1393557
>norks needing weapon safety
Fuck up outta here, pussy ass capitalist pigdog.
>>1393561
Another way of looking at it would be to interpret it better so as to avoid shit like Stalinism.
>>1393527
>getting honeydicked by some North Korean spy
>>1393559
hush anon
dont ruin it
its too tender ;_;
>>1393545
Lots.
Right-click - Search Google..
>you will never take a female VC prisoner, and then hand them over to ARVN forces knowing that they'll be raped and tortured
![953d7039fc2905f21cc4e301c2fe12d1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ewlxUlW.jpg "953d7039fc2905f21cc4e301c2fe12d1[1].jpg")
>you will never fight beside her and protect her
>>1393444
>you will never be a rustic but literate country girl who brings messages of love back and forth between a nationalist girl and a communist boy
>you will never question your sexuality through your passionate writings and lovemaking by proxy
>you will never be a Chinese American girl in California who tries to impress her visiting (and rather grumpy)
>you will never try to do ballet for her only to be screamed at and scolded
>you will never learn from baba that grandma had her feet bound as a young girl, and the trauma still lingers
>you will never be a cute Manchu girl who gets horribly abused by her Chinese husband
>you will never find solace in the arms of Japanese soldier
>you will never flee to America together postwar
>>1393504
>It made me realize how cynical and uninspired the modern world is. Sure, people often have vague notions of humanity and social good, but the idea of an animating ideology that could inspire people to sell away their soul or life is completely unthinkable to us.
This is what the Great War did to the West. You now realize just the magnitude of the tragedy that it was.
>>1393561
>I feel like that's just an excuse to sit around and mouth off about whatever you like while the world rolls on behind you. It's capitulation to the status quo
>I feel like...
You realize this statement is your interpretation, the very thing you are trying to criticize, right?
Obviously someone COULD use it as an excuse to merely comment on and not participate in the world around them, but so what? They aren't going to contribute to a powerful social movement if that comes along either. Better that the folks who actually DO want to do something meaningful are careful about how they interpret the world than that we make sure lazy people have one less excuse to be lazy, IMO.
>>1393444
>>1393466
>false understanding of leftism
>implying Uncle Fidel isn't a big fan of Mao and his antirevisionist application of Marxism to the condition of China
To the reeducation camp
>dumb autistic chinaboo samefagging his own thread
>pedastalizes scroungy greasy pathological lying chinese women
>>1393444
Mao literally did nothing wrong though.
![cd4081f59434f4c5e66676baeb958a26[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iHQjMGr.jpg "cd4081f59434f4c5e66676baeb958a26[1].jpg")
>>1393444
>Stop looking at me like that, idiot! We're on duty!
>Come on, the lieutenant said we have to protect this road for the supply line.
>It's important Anon, focus! The people's revolution needs us!
>What are you, a dirty nationalist?
>Don't worry, we'll have some time to relax once our shift is done (◠‿◠)
>>1393444
I don't hate Asians... but I can't look at one without knowing that they would walk pass a dieing toddler without breaking stride .i
>>1393444
Trips checked.
I'm OK with that. From what I've read of Maoism, it wasn't much fun.
>>1393761
For a few people. For most it was great and a vast improvement.
![culturalrev_execute[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6G4L1jm.jpg "culturalrev_execute[1].jpg")
>>1393793
>a few people
I wouldn't call tens of millions starved and killed "a few"
>>1393829
Technically that's only a fraction of the population, and in Chinese history isn't that bad. Also tens of millions is cold-war mythology. Also under Mao the Chinese population increased, saw increased life expectancy, calorie intake, and actually got the first access to modern medicine and education for most people. So yeah they did okay, three years of famine notwithstanding.
BTW tell me what's happening in that picture. Who they are, where that is, when it was, all the details.
>>1393845
>fraction of the population
That still doesn't make tens of millions of people "a few."
>cold-war mythology
Land reform from 1947-52 resulted in the deaths of 800,000 (Mao's estimate) to 2 million landlords and land-owning peasants. The Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries campaign resulted in the executions of at least 712,000 (official figure) but most 3rd party estimates are in the millions. The anti-rightist campaign killed around 550,000. The Chinese government claims that at least 15 million were killed in the Great Leap Forward, most historians claim it caused between 20 and 30 million deaths. The cultural revolution killed 500,000 - 2 million.
>Chinese population increased
It was increasing before he came into power too, and the rate of growth dramatically slowed during the GLF. The fact that he didn't manage to kill off an entire generation through incompetence doesn't mean his rule was good for the country.
>increased life expectancy, calorie intake, and actually got the first access to modern medicine and education for most people.
I would hope that Mao's China had a greater life expectancy and calorie intake than WWII and civil war China, if not it would have been an even more shameful indictment of command economies and collectivization. Modern medicine merely required him to not prevent the adoption of it. While his education reforms drastically increased literacy they also prevented the population from reading materials that contradicted the ideals of Mao and the Communist Party. They also intentionally burned entire libraries and huge troves of art and artifacts. While Mao's predecessors committed similar acts his were unprecedented in scale.
I don't know the exact provenance of the picture, I googled "cultural revolution executions," and it came up with a description claiming that they are landlords being killed during the land reform program. Not that it would really matter to you if I did know the details.
>>1393526
they dont have the fast food culture of the us but live in countries with bad infrastructure, shoddy consumer items, and all around 2nd world level of living.
II>>1393452
Nihilism isn't prison, its the ultimate freedom.
You can choose whichever goals, ambitions and meaning you want from life.
Mao was probably the worst ruler in all of Chinese history. If he had been an Emperor under China's Imperial system, he would have been said to have lost the mandate of heaven after all the artificial disasters that occurred which were directly attributable to his abysmal government. It amazes me that he has apologists.
>>1394081
>You can choose whichever goals, ambitions and meaning you want from life.
Yet at the back of your mind, there will always be that tiny nagging voice reminding you that it's all just bullshit. That doesn't sound like ultimate freedom to me.
>>1393751
Your dialogue started fine but the ending was bad. You see qt anime girls never say vulgar shit like
>Don't worry, we'll have some time to relax once our shift is done (◠‿◠)
In fact they seldom admit to reciprocate the protagonist's feelings towards them, they reserve this only to very stressful moments of the plot, and in a very child-like matter.
>>1393490
Holy... Almost makes being a commie cuck worth it
>>1393444
Red guards weren't qt in the slightest
Source: My grandparents from my mothers' side were 'struggle-session'd' by red guards. And my grandfather from my father's side was killed by red guards.
>>1393444
>Horrors of Maoism
Oh the humanity.
The bourgeoisie, nationalists and their shitty culture are getting their just deserts. How horrific.
>>1394371
>Source: My grandparents from my mothers' side were 'struggle-session'd' by red guards. And my grandfather from my father's side was killed by red guards.
Epic.
>>1394399
These kinds of posts are satire... right?
>>1394404
No. Mao unironically nothing wrong.
Except not purging Deng when they had the chance.
>>1394404
I fear not
Geez I love chinese chicks.
>ywn be a nationalist spy left behind on the mainland.
>ywn defend your qt qipao wearing waifu from vulgar filthy commies who make her dress in dull lifeless uniforms and smash the ancestral tablets.
>ywn save her in the nick of time after they find the library in her house full of forbidden classical literature where you would pass the time together perusing the Chinese classics, where you first saw her blush when both your eyes stopped on a copy of the Jin Ping Mei.
>ywn hijack a fishing boat at gunpoint to escape across the strait to Taiwan with her even though you know you will be punished under military discipline upon arrival for compromising your mission early.
>ywn have a comfy happy family with her as Taiwan's economy takes off in the 60s and 70s while the mainland becomes a living hell.
boy this looks fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsDWYX5-5EQ
Ransacking museums, temples, and historic sites. Smashing every piece of porcelain and burning every buddha. Truly a movement we should all look up to.
>>1393452
Oh, my revolutionary girl.
Let us crush capitalist imperialism together!!
>>1394557
Yes.
Fuck old Chinese culture.
>>1394308
>usa and western europe the birthplace and cradle of cucked by brown people movement
>calls commies cucks
Retard
>>1393526
Because communism = propaganda, that's what you can witness with this topic
>>1393503
This
>>1393466
thicc
>>1393504
>It made me realize how cynical and uninspired the modern world is. Sure, people often have vague notions of humanity and social good, but the idea of an animating ideology that could inspire people to sell away their soul or life is completely unthinkable to us.
Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St. Paul
Give me Christ
Or give me Hiroshima
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaxvBsyigM
>ywn be a Basque Catholic fighting for the Nationalists in Spain
>ywn leave your village with all your friends and relatives to fight communism
>ywn promise your pure and chaste catholic gf that you will return to marry her in the Church
>ywn rebuild the churches communists destroyed with your own blood
>>1393466
I would pay so much money to get beaten up by these girls
>>1394557
You know that /his/torians are all communist hacks when they praise a movement that led to countless destruction of historical documents and monuments.
Communism is a cancer.
>>1394928
Have you ever been to Taiwan, where old Chinese culture was preserved? It's really beautiful. Why are you so racist against Chinese culture? What a hateful little man.
>>1393561
That's exactly what Marxism is all about. The communist state is guaranteed, there's nothing you can do to change that.
Start a revolution or sit around. The end result will be the same if you're deluded enough to believe in Marxism.
>>1393444
> you'll never have rl Claire Underwood as your wife
Ughhhhh
>>1395434
I disagree, personally I dig glorious proletarian culture more.
>>1393526
You get to see only the hot ones.
>>1394020
>(official figure)
Which "official figure"? The various anti-communist "experts" that have never done field research like Chang? Or the Deng government that ideologically needed to inflate numbers to appease foreign liberals and justify full implementation of capitalism? The body of Western liberals that can never agree what the body count was and find some excuse to increase the number by millions every year?
>The cultural revolution killed 500,000 - 2 million
>500,000 - 2 million
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhnsC2V4_0w
>It was increasing before he came into power too
Not at the rate that collectivization made possible. Hell, one of the criticisms of collectivization by foreign "experts" was that population increase (along with privileging the poor over the land lords) was a problem. As a matter of fact, population increase is directly related to the activity of collectivization with its massively more efficient use of land not only not dividing it up into slivers for whole families to use, but increasing the irrigated land in China by double figures. It's literally ONLY because of Maoist land reform that billions DIDN'T die since feudal agricultural would have never met the needs of even a modest pre-revolutionary population increase (which is par for the course for China, whose history "is a history of famine," though let's not forget that after the Three Bad Years China wasn't subjected to famine).
You might want to conflate this with "holocaust denial" but there's actual evidence for that. No shit tons of people died during the revolutionary period and many of them did die from famine or from persecution but both of those weren't nearly as common as is "reported".
>I don't know the exact provenance of the picture, I googled "cultural revolution executions,"
Well it does matter to have details. Like that detail, for example. If you knew anything about landlords you'd agree they deserved to be killed. Recall Mark Twain's comment on two terrors.
>>1395434
Are you accusing Chinese of racism against themselves? Were Europeans racist against European when they destroyed their own pagan cultural artifacts after adopting Christianity?
>>1395684
No but an edgy western leftist advocating the destruction of China's cultural heritage sure is. And yes Mao definitely had issues with a deep-seated self hatred and internalized racism against Chinese, due to failing at getting into university which he blamed on Confucianism.
>>1395759
>edgy western rightist resorting to diagnosing psychosis
pottery
>>1395783
>Rightist
>Because I don't believe in genocide.
Whatever, I've been to China and Taiwan and you certainly haven't. Go ahead and keep idolizing a horrible period in history which even CCP members I've met think was an awful mistake. Or go to Taiwan and burn a museum down if you hate traditional Chinese culture that much.
>>1394557
Just about nothing in this world pisses me off more than the cultural revolution.
I want to fucking nuke the bastards as punishment, damn the collateral damage. They deserve it.
>>1395812
>>1395818
>It's an Americunts get upset about some broken shit they never cared about to begin with episode
>I will never know what it's like to be this inauthentic
Feels good actually. Try crying about the shit your granddaddies broke before you go crying about someone else taking their "culture" into their own hands.
>>1395912
Tell me, why are you on a history board if you hate history?
Why don't you just go to /leftypol/?
>>1395944
I like history quite a bit. I also think it's interesting when people take history into their hands and make history of their own. You know, like what happens in all societies. Ever.
Why are you on a history board if you hate that history is an organic development of peoples that is always changing?
Why don't you go to /reddit/ or some place to have a good cry about it.
>>1395992
I somehow doubt you approve of the German people organizing in Freikorps to resist a communist takeover as "making history of their own".
You are just a communist who is ok with massive destruction of historical documents as long as it serves your ideology.
>>1393466
unga wunga
>>1393510
kek
>wanting a communist gf
have fun using gender neutral pronouns your whole life
![Wuzhi_Mountain_Zhang_Da_Zhong[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9km5DVP.jpg "Wuzhi_Mountain_Zhang_Da_Zhong[1].jpg")
>You will never go on patrol with her
>You will never scout and report on nationalist scum with her
>You will never accompany her in her boundless optimism and idealism for the future
>>1396014
>Freikorps
>organized to do anything but overthrow a liberal constitutional republic
This is a very silly post. You should like to learn about pre-Nazi Germany and pre-Civil War China precisely because they are monumental episodes of people reacting to their own intolerable situations and both were intolerable, though the Chinese peasantry and workers understood their conditions much better than the disenfranchised Imperialist-minded German middle-class and did not, in fact, commit the gruesome, REAL crimes against humanity the Germans did. You may disapprove of both (though it's clear you don't know why you do) but any proper analysis should lead to some kind of sympathy as to why these things happened, which leads directly into this next part:
>as it serves your ideology
YOU are the one having a hissy fit about what other people do with their artifacts. YOU are ass-blasted about it because of YOUR ideology granting you the right to condemn people for doing exactly the same thing that your own people have done to themselves and countless others! Incredible.
![hb_1979.5_av5[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2ZWRU61.jpg "hb_1979.5_av5[1].jpg")
>>1395580
>>1394928
Yes the real shame is that any classical paintings, lacquerware, literature, architecture, and sculpture survived the pyres. Propaganda posters, commieblocks, and mass-produced concrete statues are clearly a superior form of art because they embody the ideals of the people and don't require any fancy education to understand. And how else can you bring about positive change without destroying thousands of years worth of material culture in one go?
>>1396491
I unironically agree.
![Le_Jardin_chinois_(detail)_by_François_Boucher[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/04l80yX.jpg "Le_Jardin_chinois_(detail)_by_François_Boucher[1].jpg")
>>1395912
>never cared about to begin with episode
Yea it's not like traditional Chinese culture has been fetishized by the western world ever since Europeans learned that it existed. It'd be pretty awkward if things like the tea ceremony, silk paintings, furniture, picturesque art, landscape gardening, and porcelain were valued by foreigners and just spontaneously destroyed for no good reason. I'm glad that things like Confucius' philosophy weren't appreciated and didn't form the backbone of physiocracy and influence the invention of economics as a field of study.
>you will never reduce Anon's waifu to something strongly resembling black licorice
Even Kim Il-Sung thought the Cultural Revolution was an act of "unbelievable idiocy."
>>1396548
1) Was talking about you. Unless YOU are Han living in China it has literally nothing to do with you and you are only pretending that you care about it.
2) What you're describing is largely a fiction. You want Orientalist love for China and its culture? There are any number of fancy paintings of Turkish palace life and the finesses of the "the Orient". How about Mary Shelley's lovely dotage about "the lazy Chinese" in her classical Frankenstein? Yes Confucius was a curious interest for a few 18th century intellectuals. Except it wasn't until the 20th century that the average person knew anything about Confucius, and still not even 1% of Westerners have ever read his work.
3) Confucianism was shit for everyone but 1% of the Chinese population, didn't help anyone. In fact, traditional Chinese religion and philosophy is responsible for keeping Chinese in a highly inefficient and oppressive pre-modern civilization with such wonderful contributions as foot-binding, class system, geomancy based burials.
>BUT I DON'T LIKE CHINESE PEOPLE CHANGING THEIR CULTURE IT'S MOST IMPORTANT THAT THEY APPEASE ME WHAAA
If only I could go back in time and tell them to destroy more kek
>>1396563
>you and your wife and her lasses will never send the """""""""greatest""""""""" """""""""army"""""""" """""""""""""""""ever"""""""""""""" packing with their tiny imperialist """""""""""""""dicks"""""""""""""""" between their legs
>>1396626
Anon, there is no need to be angry. We're having a polite discussion about our feelings.
>mfw Project Pheonix
>>1396631
I agree anon, you don't have to be angry. :^)
>>1396637
Now you're getting in the spirit of things.
>>1396613
Yeah that's why Taiwan is an awful land of foot-bound female slaves under brutal-
Oh wait it's a first world country that only the richest parts of the mainland are barely catching up to in living standards.
And good luck finding a Han Chinese who things the cultural revolution was a good thing lol. Actually I would pay money to see you drop your spaghetti trying to talk to some real Chinese people about how cool destroying their culture was. Turns out modern Chinese people are very proud of their culture and rightfully so. Btw I didn't know brainwashed teenagers who grew up learning only Mao and then were used by him in a power grab against more reasonable CCP members were "the people and workers" but whatever gets you off I guess.
>>1396613
>highly inefficient and oppressive pre-modern civilization
So...Maoism then?
>>1396653
>Yeah that's why Taiwan is
We're talking about the past, kid. Chinese culture was never you special snowflake Oriental paradise and the vast majority of Chinese persons agree that it wasn't since they themselves chose to change it, I'm sorry to say.
>And good luck finding a Han Chinese who things the cultural revolution was a good thing lol
Well it's a good thing that something called the Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution happened and that literally hundreds and hundreds of millions of Chinese took part in it. :^) And lots still do, despite Dengist reversal and the attempts to rehabilitate traditional culture (or in addition to it). But this, again, is the privilege of the Chinese, and not yours.
>y-y-you're j-j-just edg-g-gy
>literally the kid regurgitating mindless propaganda with no respect for history and its actors accusing anyone of being "brainwashed"
>>1396661
>>1395669
>>1396653
Read Mobo Gao. Chinese literally did not give a shit about "culture" since it never benefited them.
>>1396691
>be a Maoist in China
>get dragged off by the MSS
>be a Maoist in America
>get laughed at
Do you enjoy being a loser?
![main_mao[1][1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FZk4QUT.jpg "main_mao[1][1].jpg")
>>1395669
You're going to have to be a little more specific than "Chang" when talking about Chinese people, dude.
>needed to inflate numbers to appease foreign liberals and justify full implementation of capitalism?
Then why did he go with the lowest popularly accepted scholarly estimate? And for fuck's sake even LENIN passed capitalist economic reforms in the wake of mass famine, but I guess he was just trying to appease the liberals, huh?
>The body of Western liberals that can never agree what the body count was and find some excuse to increase the number by millions every year?
Because the mass deaths during the great leap forward were the result of a concatenation of factors which makes it hard to decide which ones were the direct result of Mao's policies.
>It's literally ONLY because of Maoist land reform that billions DIDN'T die since feudal agricultural would have never met the needs of even a modest pre-revolutionary population increase
>billions
lmao and you're calling me out on MY statistics? The population of China was around 600 million at the time of the Cultural Revolution, how would a more "primitive" economic structure have resulted in the death of at least 1.4 billion more people than existed in China?
Mao knew nothing of agriculture but forced the countryside to engage in shitty practices like collectivization, close planting and deep plowing (thanks Lysenko), and killing the sparrows.
Given that the regions which recorded the most grain production were the ones hit hardest by the famine (http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/pyared/papers/famines.pdf), that China's grain exports doubled between 1958 and 1959, and that they continued to be a net grain exporter between 1958-60 (7 million tons of grain, which coincidentally is enough to feed 16 million people with 2000 calories per day for 2 years) I think we have plenty of evidence that Mao's policies directly contributed to the famine.
Fuck you you deluded ideological piece of shit.
Music for the thread?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FMH-OgDqnM
>>1396613
>it has literally nothing to do with you and you are only pretending that you care about it.
My parents collect Chinese antiques and I plan on visiting China some day. It saddens me that I wont be able to visit so much of China's historical architecture that has been and continues to be destroyed to make way for soulless concrete and glass rectangles.
>>1396717
I really hope you know which Chang is being talked about.
>Then why did he go with the lowest popularly accepted scholarly estimate?
Because he needed a number that would justify moving beyond the Mao era and that was the "reasonable" conclusion, which since then has skyrocketed because we can just make up all the bodies we need on page.
>comparing Lenin to Deng
Not sure about that fampai
>how would a more "primitive" economic structure have resulted in the death of at least 1.4 billion more people than existed in China?
Take the same famine but have one group have to deal with it with the landlord peasant system of farming and another group the revolutionary system of farming and the former results, as it ALWAYS has in Chinese history, mass starvation, where as we know that the latter resulted simply in hunger. Hunger of billions and billions ;^) Since the famine was mostly naturally caused and only supplemented by death of sparrows and grain export (the latter of which was necessary because of the sino-soviet split) the worst famine in recent history would've been unable to cope with primitive practices. Without those latter two no one would even be talking about it. Well, liberals would have a harder time of actually selling it anyway.
>http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/pyared/papers/famines.pdf
>columbia business school
>cites Ashton &al.
This is an old study that miscalculates and undervalues crop (eg: tubers), which leads to people that were not in China and have no experience as farmers (certainly not peasants) looking at numbers and thinking that millions starved and that crop just magically disappeared. Of course neither are true. See: Hinton Through a Glass Darkly.
>Literally blames "progressive politics"
I wonder who's behind this?
>cites Conquest
;^)
The funny thing is there was barely any central planning to the communes, it was mostly a free association with their own local committees overseeing them.
>>1396698
Why should I read Maoist apologetics?
>you will never train your dogs to rape communist women
Feels bad, man.
>>1397070
Why should communist women even complain about being raped when they make being sexually free a huge aspect of their cause?
>>1396698
>Over a billion people have never given a shit about their own culture.
Have you ever met a real Chinese? I mean I guess being a 21st century Maoist entails some hardcore NEETdom but goddamn dude... Chinese are the Americans of Asia. WE WUZ MIDDLE KINGDOM OF THE WORLD. WE INVENTED EVERYTHING. ALL ASIA COPIED US. And so on. Chinese love Chinese culture.
So that time in the 1960s when a lunatic dictator let brainwashed kids leave school eith no consequences as long as they go around smashing stuff for daddy Mao so that he could do a power grab against the rest of the CCP after fucking everything up in the Great Leap Forward was somehow the only true expression of will of the Chinese people ever?
Before those mean Dengists forced them to develop their economy and stop starving to death?
>>1393466
thank god I left Cubawanana
>>1393490
>spcis
>negro "cuban"
>>1397070
Why do edgy faggots on here love this guy so much?
>>1397145
He's a more obscure, mostly successful dictator.
It soothes the desire to be edgy and love authoritarianism, but these faggots are just a bit too anxious to commit fully to an actual crazy guy.
Park Chung-hee attracts a similar crowd.
>>1397145
Anti-communism.
As you can see this thread, it's socially acceptable to a communist to defend policies that led to the deaths of millions, while it's considered "edgy" to admire a ruler who physically eliminated 3.000 committed guerrilla fighters.
This is kind of unfair and hypocritical, so openly admiring Pinochet is a way to strike back against this injustice.
>>1397055
>Because he needed a number that would justify moving beyond the Mao era and that was the "reasonable" conclusion
Why not go with one of the higher estimates that would have bolstered his case further?
>Take the same famine but have one group have to deal with it with the landlord peasant system of farming and another group the revolutionary system of farming
Wouldn't it be great if there was some sort of alternative to these systems? Perhaps an economic system based on personal freedom and property rights that rewards industriousness with profit?
>Hunger of billions and billions ;^)
It's revealing that you laugh about your own hypothetical number of deaths being off by several orders of magnitude while trying to defame the widely accepted sources I use. Such a gross exaggeration leads me to believe that you're arguing here purely to defend your ideology instead of trying to demonstrate historical truths.
>Since the famine was mostly naturally caused and only supplemented by death of sparrows and grain export
I have not found a single non-Maoist who claims this. Deep plowing is what triggered the dust bowl; I doubt that making it mandatory was only ancillary to the scale of China's famine. The present Chinese government and every historian I've read states that the damage caused by bad weather was tremendously exacerbated by the government's mismanagement.
>grain export (the latter of which was necessary because of the sino-soviet split)
Necessary how? What political prerogatives from grain export were more important than the lives of millions?
>this is an old study
The paper I linked is from 2015 and relies on official Chinese figures and stats. It cites Ashton and Conquest once each and the paper's thesis is not dependent on those citations. Nice try though.
>barely any central planning to the communes
Then why did so many provinces continue sending large amounts of grain to cities while their people were starving? It makes no sense.
>>1397553
only uneducated people could love communism, but look at this thread
![nk[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hJpZ5sL.jpg "nk[1].jpg")
