Has there ever been a more formidable and disciplined armed corp in the history of humanity than that of WW2 Japan?
>having the guts to face china, uk, france and the united states at the same time
>fighting every battle like it's the only battle that matters
>willingfully sacrificing their own lives for the destruction of the empire's enemies
>only surrendered because nukes
>>1367582
Yes the German army
>>1367585
>WWII German Army
>good
Agree. They should have had attacked the US again after Pearl Harbor. They did nothing against the US for too long.
天皇陛下万歳!
>france
>>1367624
>what is french indochina
IJA is a bit meme-tier. As far as Asian infantry of that era goes, I'd pick a platoon of Communist Chinese guerillas over IJA soldiers any day. Better tactics, similar morale, although less technogically advanced. However, the IJA was heartbreakingly outclassed by the US Army and failed to change tactics until completely on the defensive.
>>1367610
Nagumo please go.
Some of you might believe that the Japanese suicided because of muh empera grory but that's bullshit, the truth is that the Japanese would commit sudoku as soon as the landing marines dropped their pants and showed Tojo their big white cocks. The result was that the Japanese would feel so ashmed for having dicks so smaller that they would immediatly kill themselves out of said dishonor, and that's how the US won the war.
>>1367582
This post makes me want to play HoI4 as Japan more.
But the last time I did Germany got beat by France so it was just me against the Soviets and Allies who declared war on me.
I still held my own though.
>>1367636
Chinks were to Japs what Japs were to Americans, cannon fodder.
>>1367666
>No fleet carriers were ever sunk by kamikazes
Feels good man.
But which carrier is that one in your gif?
>>1367582
Nope. Alexander's Macedonians were the most disciplined and formidable army ever fielded. I'd like to see the Kwangtung army fight its way on foot from Greece all the way to India without loosing a battle.
>>1367766
It's either the Enterprise or the Wasp.
>>1367741
I said Communist Chinese guerillas, not Kuomintang troops. Please comprehend a post before commenting.
>>1367797
50 cents have been deposited in your account.
>>1367806
Are you fucking dense? What I posted has nothing to do with contemporary China. Thanks for helping to lower the quality of discourse on /his/, you ginormous faggot.
No person who enjoys history should ever impose their contemporary cultural biases onto the past. You probably don't like it when BLM or leftists do it, don't do it yourself.
>>1367582
pound for pound they were certainly among of the best physically trained soldiers.
>>1367582
If they were so good, why did they get btfoed by Australian farmers in new Guinea?
>>1367766
>But which carrier is that one in your gif?
not that anon but I think its the Bunker Hill.
>>1367781
?
that's an Essex class carrier....also Wasp was sunk before wide-spreads kamakazis.
>>1367831
lol...what? just about every major power in ww2 had better physically trained troops.
>>1367860
There's an Essex-class version of Wasp.
>>1367582
"And if you dare to lose, whippings will be liberally handed out until discipline improves. Because you are all scummy peasant stock."
>>1367582
They were certainly among the most formidable, but they were certainly not among the best controlled and disciplined.
>>1367918
The British in SE Asia considered the Japanese soldier to be 1st rate but served in a 3rd rate army which is accurate as fuck. Japanese equipment was a joke, their tactics were decades behind the times, and their officers were too obsessed with decisive engagements instead of actually understanding economics, supply, and other crucial factors. There are actual memoirs of Japanese naval and army commanders that felt greater willpower and endurance would overcome economic and logistic disparity. WTF is up with East Asians and this type of thinking? I notice Chinese and Koreans are similar in this regard.
>>1367806
ONE
>>1367780
I don't know man the golden horde under Genghis and Subutai was one hell of a storm.
>>1367870
I would say the had some of the best hand to hand skills of any army at the time. excellent bayonet fighters.
Of course that was not that helpful in an era of machine guns and air support
>>1367582
>rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape rape
>>1368172
Subotai and Ghengis were both military geniuses in their own right, but I still don't think anybody except Alexander ever commanded such loyalty from their men. They followed him to the edge of the world and swept aside everyone that tried to stop them. Also, its impossible to deny the huge impact of the Hellenic culture they left in their wake.
>>1367676
>>1367582
>formidable
>disciplined
>Japanese
>>1368188
>excellent bayonet fighters
Mostly because nobody else even trained their soldiers in it.
And even then they were constantly raped by Gurkhas in Burma when they wanted to fight them hand-to-hand.
>>1368218
gurkas were pretty fierce from what little Ive read, but I was comparing the Japanese to other developed nations.
Fighting like a fanatical fucking insect is not how you win a war. Retreats and withdrawals are sometimes necessary but the Japs can't accept that, they gotta die to defend a piece of rock even if it provides no tactical advantage.
>>1368202
>loyalty
You're aware they revolted to get him to stop marching, right?
Also, he had to put down a coup.
>>1368306
I know, but for the sake of this discussion I'm implying that they were loyal and highly disciplined up until his campaigns came to an end and they returned to Babylon.
>>1367582
>fighting every battle like it's the only battle that matters
Did more bad than good in the long run.
>willingfully sacrificing their own lives for the destruction of the empire's enemies
Drugs and brutal pressure.
>only surrendered because nukes
Kek no, Japan was already flattened to the ground before the nukes. This is an American fairy tale.
>>1368057
>WTF is up with East Asians and this type of thinking? I notice Chinese and Koreans are similar in this regard.
Tradition. While Western nations underwent many modern wars (for the time) including WW1 that led them to adopt the rational and materialist assessment of warfare suited to modern conditions, East Asians didn't have anything comparable and so developed different lines of thought based on traditional models.
>>1367582
>having the guts to face china
m8 heavy machine guns could penetrate most Chinese tanks
The Chinese army was really shitty
The British in Indo-China/Singapore were just stupidly racist and let their guard down
>>1368057
>memes, the post
>>1369074
>m8 heavy machine guns could penetrate most Chinese tanks
"Chinese" tanks were Soviet and US-made. Stop posting if you know nothing about the topic.
>Japan
>Disciplined
Nothing can beat Rome
>>1369372
If that was true Rome (not the city) would still exist today :^)
>>1369074
>m8 heavy machine guns could penetrate most Chinese tanks
Chinese tanks were German-made. Later changed to US and Soviet-made.
Stop being such a drooling retard and study some real history.
>>1367831
>pound for pound
Not particularly difficult when your average soldier weighs about as much a 12 year old girl.
>>1368057
>There are actual memoirs of Japanese naval and army commanders that felt greater willpower and endurance would overcome economic and logistic disparity
Kek. The French, Brits and Germans had this mindset right up till WW1. Hard to keep believeing 'Furor Teutonicus' or 'Elan vital' will win you battles when machineguns and artillery are involved.
>>1368172
The Golden Horde didn't exist when Genghis was alive pal. It's like saying 'the seleucid empire under Alexander'. If you're gonna start mongolposting at least learn your memes well.
Prussia.
>>1367773
Russia without Hitler would still be a fuck-up.
>If we go fast enough, we won't need supply lines!
>>1367582
>>only surrendered because nukes
Uhhh
>>1367629
>what is a colonial possession defended by like 20 guys with hardened baguettes that was given up after a token resistance
>>1367797
You mean the infamous Communist Chinese guerillas who accomplished literally nothing? Yeah I'd say they are probably the toppest of the top infantry for sure.
>Japanese
>"good"
Their military equipment/technology and their tactics were very outdated, their logistics were never good and their supply lines were always stretched thin (even when they were 'winning'), and they very easily lost against formidable powers such as the U.S. and the Soviets, and they never seriously attempted to invade Australia due to their technological edge. They only were able to win against fragmented and warlord-infested China, technologically incompetent Korea, and other small-time Asian powers.
>>1371202
>They only were able to win against fragmented and warlord-infested China, technologically incompetent Korea, and other small-time Asian powers.
They didn't win against China, they were bogged down while achieving local tactical victories.
They never fought Korea or any other small-time Asian power as none existed. They did "fight" the Thais long enough for the Thais to be able to pretend that they resisted.
You are really bad at history.
>>1367588
>Germany army automatically refers to WWII
>glosses over WWI German Army
>glosses over 1870 Prussian Army
>>1371150
It's true though. Look at the war in the Pacific.
Pelileu. Midway. Guadacanal. Philippines. Okinawa. Manchuria. They had lost everything and still did not surrender. And believe it or not, they were highly confident they would destroying ABCDE + USSR powers by bringing the fight to the Japanese mainland.
>>1367582
>having the guts to face china, uk, france and the united states at the same time
>uk and france
Lmao
Sure were fearsome enemies
>>1371164
(Citation needed)
>>1371571
>a professional army hardened by battles against china beating colonial garrison
WEW
>>1371213
Weeb logic basically.NEVER FORGET the Franco Prussian war!
>>1367703
Japan is the weakest major in HoI4, it might be the only major alongside France where its actually somewhat difficult to win.
>>1369917
My nigga
>>1371617
Is HOI4 shit?
>>1371666
yes
Nope that honour falls to the post Marian reform Roman Legion.
I think Japanese troops can be considered hardened and generally badass, but they suffered horribly due to training that emphasized spiritual and moral fanaticism over marksmanship and tactics. Troops willing to mass charge into machine guns show their bravery, but also their deficiency. One of the most disciplined armies in history? Easily. One of the most skilled? Definitely not.
Casualty rates among Japanese infantry were tremendous due to a fundamental failure to train individual soldiers to fight practically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Tenaru
Towards the end, tactics changed, but by then the disparity in equipment, artillery, and air power was too great and even skilled Japanese troops couldn't ever hope to win.
>>1367582
>Has there ever been a more formidable and disciplined armed corp in the history of humanity than that of WW2 Japan?
I'd say the army that defeated them was
>>1371589
>weeb
Literally what do Weebs have to do with Franco Prussian war? Throwing about /b/ labels just because they are new to you doesn't make you cool, sempai
>>1369845
Yeah and you'd think the Japanese would've learned those lessons but instead they were still in the mentality of a pre-WWI army by 1941. The Soviets buttraped them twice with tanks, artillery, and planes. Japanese tanks were a joke.
>>1372114
>materialists
>perverts
>reckless young men
>immoral
>so scared by the idea of having to invade rising sun land they had to bomb it with nukes
>butthurt about pearl harbor to this day
>"formidable"
>"disciplined"
Please.
>>1372201
>formidable
>slaughtered in retarded frontal assaults on machine guns and artillery, army equipment suited for a war that happened a score in the past
>disciplined
>infamous for brutal and perverse abuse of POWs and civilians, officers prone to killing themselves instead of getting their shit together
>>1372289
>cucked the dutch and portuguese out of their own knowledges after 200 years of trade and commerce
>completely destroyed russia, the largest country of its time
>raped korea and china so dry that koreans were completely annexed and 1/4 of the soooo mighty china became japanese puppets
>the other 3/4s fell into civil war
>cucked ABCDE powers from their colonies
>destroyed US pacific fleet in just a few hours
>turned into the most aesthetic empire ever, with a beautiful flag and sexy borders
/his/, please do tell me about the campaing in China. How bad was it for the Japs to fight Chinese guerillas? What could have they done to achieve better results in China?
>>1371571
DELETE THIS
>>1367780
>Alexander's Macedonians were the most disciplined and formidable army ever fielded
>rebels when it reached the Ganges and saw the Nanda army on the other banks and fled.
>was held up by the persians in Passegedae.
>>1372305
>"destroyed" US fleet proceeds to tear the japanese fleet a new one
>>1367773
I think you should compare the industrial capacities/outputs for the relevant nations (and, furthermore, sides) in WWII.
The Eastern Front was an impossible conflict that Germany needed to enter into. In order to win before they crumbled under the weight of their own effort, they needed to go fast. But in order to go fast, they had to make logistical sacrifices. But, obviously, there were good long-term reasons for the war with the USSR.
So Germany was really up a shit creek without a paddle, so to speak. The only winning move was not to play in the first place (which, obviously, wasn't really an option with Hitler's economic policy). So basically they were always fucked.
>>1367582
>formidable
>disciplined
>IJA
u wot m8
This is the same army that, without consulting their own government
>assasinated a national leader
>invaded a neighboring country and installed a protectorate
>got involved in 1,000 border incidents with the Soviets ranging from a couple of assholes stealing fish from fishing lines to full-blown battles
>continuously provoked border incidents with China until they unleashed a major war
>completely lacked armor capable of holding up against anything that wasn't peasant rabble
>actually, seriously expected spotter balloons to be viable in a 1940's battlefield
>routinely launched suicide attacks
It's a testament to the incompetence of their enemies that they made it as far as they did.
Top fucking kek
Japan during WWII was almost as bad as Italy
>>1367741
Pseuds if you want to be respected go to /pol/, otherwise jump in front of a train
>>1367773
Not true, the Luftwaffe got stopped by the Brits, and the Kriegsmarine also got btfo by the Norwegians
>>1372331
From what I understand I don't think they really could have done much better. China was a logistics nightmare with all of those pesky mountain ranges so they grabbed all of the ports and important cities along rivers but had nowhere near enough men to supress the guerillas over the rest.
I guess they could have made concessions to end it diplomatically but I'm not even sure if that was possible given what politically messy situation both China and Japan were in.
>>1372331
They didn't use enough chemical weapons against Chinese civilians. They should have killed them all. Bombard fucking civilians to death.
Guerilla warfare works as long as the enemy gives a shit about your civilians, and that clearly wasn't the case of any part of the Japanese Empire, specially it's military. If guerillas fear you more than you fear them then the guerilla won't fight.
Among the enlisted, yes. It was a result of their draconian training. Their officer class was painfully incompetent. From the brass to the field officers few of them had the balls to step up and say what was needed. We can't fight without food, water, and ammunition. The average grunt would fight and die without those things, but they'd never do it as well as if they'd actually had them. More soldiers died of hunger and diseases than by enemy bullets and bombs because pretty much from the start everyone was starving and out of ammunition. Japan never had the logistics to win the war it started.
>>1374248
Japan would've lost even if it had good logistics.
