was he really a bad guy?
>>1357413
morality is a spook
>>1357413
Yea
>>1357413
Georgians are all bad guys.
http://marxism.halkcephesi.net/Grover%20Furr/stalin_1.htm
http://marxism.halkcephesi.net/Ludo%20Martens/
Not even remotely interested in a debate here but I'll drop these links for those who question the typical view society has bombarded them with.
Killed 60 million people.
But this is /his/ so nah lad he's cool, wasn't really his fault those people died and honestly it wasn't even real Communism that he enacted, so we can't really demonize Communism or Marxism really lad.
>>1357531
>russians
>people
pick 1
> buttblasted Nazi scum still buttblasted
>>1357413
Did nothing wrong.
This man, among others, is responsible for the Holodomor.
>>1357413
>>1357413
he did some good and some bad
>>1357616
What movie?
>>1357413
Better than Trotsky, which isnt really saying much, but still.
>>1357462
>The greatest story never told: Commie boogaloo 2
>>1357421
This (I guess)
There should be no "bad guys" in history. Not him, not Hitler, not Truman.
>>1357413
He was very troubled, paranoid, and delusional, but personally he was quite likable.
>>1357413
Well he bitch slapped Hitler, so that was all g.
>>1357763
Pretty much this
Anyone who removes jews is a bretty cool guy in my book
>>1357413
nah, he saved the world from nazism
Im looking forward to volume II of this new biography
I was hoping it would come out this summer, but it probably wont be available until next year
>>1357413
An extraordinarily bad guy and all-round petty, paranoid human being
After Stalin´s speeches, the first person to stop clapping and sit down would get arrested, tortured and gulag-ed.
He would even feign impatience and motion people to sit down just to fuck with them.
>>1360482
>Implying it wasn't communism the world needed to be saved from
>>1357413
best commie man
>>1357754
Stalingrad (1993)
>>1360726
> b a r b a r i c
>>1357575
You're a horrible genocide apologist.
100 million people in Europe, russia, and central asia died because of him. Killed more jews than hitler.
invaded Finland.
invaded poland.
Committed zero genocides, so that automatically makes him better than Churchill and Hitler.
>>1358935
Why would you prefer him to Trotsky?
He was more regressive on trans rights.
>>1362227
muh kokhlodomor
>>1362449
*khokhlodomor
>>1357413
He was a mass murdering militant atheist tyrant. The only person who was more evil than Stalin was Mao Zedong who also a militant atheist tyrant.
>>1360737
communism didn't perpetrate the holocaust and start ww2
>>1362512
>dat pop culture-tier knowledge
Yes.
Communism/Marxism/Socialism is cancerous and terrible.
>>1362206
>100 million people in Europe, russia, and central asia died because of him. Killed more jews than hitler.
Reminder to everyone in this thread that R.J. Rummel was a neo-conservative loonie.
http://rudyrummel.blogspot.ca/
>>1357413
No.
Stalin did literally nothing wrong. Trots, reactionaries (as if there's a difference) and other counter-revolutionaries get the fuck out.
>>1362206
>o i laffin
Thank you anon, this is the funniest thing I've heard all week.
>>1360889
In order to be a genocide apologist there must first be a genocide.
>>1363260
Holocaust didn't happen and Operation Barbarossa was, according to some, a preemptive strike.
he was a bad boy
>>1363526
Epic, simply epic.
>>1357413
Yeah. He was so fucking paranoid he murdered anyone who might have jeopardize his rule. The only thing he really trusted was the neutrality pact he had with Hitler. He trusted him so much that when spies alerted him about the coming German invasion he first dismissed them and then have the spies executed for spreading misinformation.
>>1363293
Annexing countries is a thing.
>>1363540
>>What is the Holodomor?
Gross neglect, often over exaggerated by Westerners, the result of a failed plan, shit tier execution, and not really a deliberate attempt to kill any group in particular. Still a few million dead regardless.
>>What are the mass executions and gulags?
Not genocide by definition?
Also
>Gulags
>A thing
There never were any gulags. At all. There was the GULag agency, but somehow I doubt you're educated enough to know that.
>>1363293
>If he had killed millions of people, the population of the USSR would've fallen, not grown.
I have heard Neo-Nazis on /pol/ use this exact argument with Hitler and the Holocaust.
He was better than Lenin at least.
>>1363565
>It wasn't deliberate, it was accidental collectivization, food requisition, keeping people from leaving and other accidental government decisions! And it was just a few millions.
>Executing and imprisoning millions of people in deplorable conditions for being enemies of the state is not a genocide.
>I'll ignore that gulag is used to refer to the facility itself to not have to give an argument.
You're a disgusting cynical communist.
Communists defend this.
Soulless reds.
He was a big guy.
>>1363617
What's happening in this pic?
>>1363565
>slithering, weasely bullshit arguments and blatant historical revisionism
you shall not tempt me, bait spirit
>>1363623
Looks like a bunch of dudes at work.
How awful.
>>1363540
>>What is the Holodomor?
A natural disaster that fascist Hohols love to cry about.
>>What are the mass executions and gulags?
Welp, guess the US is genocidal too since it practices the death penalty and forced penal labour.
>>1363526
go to bed Jorg
>>1363623
It's a gulag picture. I posted as a representation of the imprisonment of millions of enemies of the state by the USSR.
>>1363630
>Hohol
Not the guy you were arguing with, but I've seen that term a lot and I'm wondering what it means. I know that it vaguely means "Ukrainian" but explain more.
>>1363642
It's a pejorative term for Ukrainians derived from a stereotypical Ukrainian name.
>>1363647
>Food requisition, forced collectivization and people allocation among other government actions are not a natural disaster.
But those happened all over the USSR and didn't cause any so-called """"""""""""genocides"""""""""""".
>>1363594
>>It wasn't deliberate, it was accidental collectivization, food requisition, keeping people from leaving and other accidental government decisions! And it was just a few millions.
It wasn't though
>>Executing and imprisoning millions of people in deplorable conditions for being enemies of the state is not a genocide.
That didn't happen and that isn't genocide by definition.
>>I'll ignore that gulag is used to refer to the facility itself to not have to give an argument.
>I'll use incorrect terms with and from incorrect information to make a factually incorrect point.
And my point was that you don't know what you're talking about, hence why you used an incorrect term.
>You're a disgusting cynical communist.
>mfw my grandmother lived in a 'gulag' (as you like to call them) for a decade
>mfw Stalin had my grandfather knowingly and wrongly killed for being a Polish spy
>mfw I moved to the US to get the fuck away from the USSR
>mfw someone on a north korean ministry of tree bark eating forum calls me a commie
>>1363625
>Pointing out incorrect usage of various terms is a bullshit argument
>Pointing out facts is revisionism
>>1363621
For Hitler.
y'all motherfuckers need the immortal dialectical science of the vanguard party
>>1363647
Jörg Baberowski, German Nazi apologist who cried and ran off to his safe space when people started calling him out on his historical revisionism.
>>1363665
Pics of USSR passport?
>>1357413
Stalin did a lot of great things and a lot of horrible things. Defining somebody as good or bad is childish. However, Stalin's government purges and attacks against the Ukrainian populace were very destructive and can't be justified.
>>1363565
>>1363665
>>1363507
>>1363761
You don't actually get to keep it (or the internal passport) if you leave. You do however get this 'passport' to show that you chose to leave and not come back, but are still a citizen.
>>1363787
I'd say I'm a one/two if anything. People really do think that Stalin was worse than he actually was, and people tend to exaggerate what he did, but he was still fucking godawful.
>>1363815
You are a level 7.
You're in total denial.
Total fucking Vatnik.
>>1363854
kek
>>1363293
What is pre-jewish media sexual reproduction.
1 million peasant adults in 4 million total pop.
Have 1 million kids every 5 years.
in 20 years, because more turn into adulthood every year, and death to birth rate is 1.1 (generously low) you have just under 9 million projected at end of period.
Kill one million.
Still have double the peasants.
Gee whiz history is hard. It makes you do things beyond having an opinion.
>>1363565
>There never were any gulags. At all. There was the GULag agency
if you can't win a real argument, just redefine words until you're right
>>1363787
Definite level 3.
The glory of the DPRK must never perish from this Earth.
>>1363787
> tankie
> Stalinist who likes Khruschev
This describes Western knowledge of USSR perfectly.
>>1363787
I'm a Trot but I agree with 2 and 3. Holodohoax was literally propaganda by Ukrainian Nazis who pinned the famine on Stalin.
The DPRK is about as deformed as a so-called workers' state can be, but US "liberation" would be 1000x worse.
>>1363526
Oh fuck off
Why do you think not a single peer-reviewed document exists proving the falsity of the Holocaust?
More importantly, where the fuck did my great uncle go? You think the rich Jews paid 6 million poor Jews to disappear and never see their families again?
>>1364851
All jews profit off the holocaust
>>1364880
Not the ones who were murdered
>>1365210
>invasion
What fuck are you talking about? /his/ has been heavily socialist since the beginning
>>1365220
>heavily socialist
>>1364898
Treason is a crime. To be Jewish is to commit treason.
>>1363743
>Stalin's reign begins in 1923
that's wrong senpai
>>1363973
>Disregarding the rest of the post
>Thinking an addendum is an argument
>Thinking that pointing out Gulags weren't a thing is redefining words
>Literally using a made up word that means nothing and doesn't make sense is perfectly valid and if I get corrected I'll just yell 'u no wat i mean' until he gives up.
>Being this retarded
Okay then.
Americans who praise America for being "founded free of any sort of forced labor or genocide" but condemn the USSR for being founded on forced labor and genocide always crack me up.
>>1365991
The difference is almost 150 years Tankie
>>1366042
Who said I had love for the USSR or the USA? I hate either.
Time doesn't matter, hypocrisy only matters. Time is just a symbol in this argument, both committed the same. Former presidents are just as diabolical as Stalin, ends justify the means.
>>1365991
>"founded free of any sort of forced labor or genocide"
I have literally never heard this. That's fucking retarded. I have heard about 'every man is equal', 'principles of freedom and liberty', etc etc, but never that.
>>1366042
>Slavery lasted until the 1860's
>Indian Wars lasted until 1924
America wasn't founded free of forced labor or genocide, and those actions lasted longer than the USSR existed. The time difference is irrelevant regardless because the people who apparently say the above are still wrong and retarded.
>>1366054
>Former presidents are just as diabolical as Stalin, ends justify the means.
Yeah, I'm going to need some evidence or examples of that, and don't give a single awful thing a president did. I want to see exactly how former presidents were 'just as diabolical as Stalin'.
>>1366096
>Yeah, I'm going to need some evidence or examples of that
Here's two examples
Justification of Slavery = Justification of Gulag
Trail of Tears = Mass Starvation
>>1366146
I-What? I asked for examples of presidents being or doing things as bad as Stalin, you gave me a shitty thing that's said, and a shitty thing that was done. Justifying something is different than creating/massively expanding the institution of it, and the Trail of Tears killed like 3000 people, mostly from disease and exposure, which is different than the couple million in Ukraine.
Show me a president on the same level of bad as Stalin. Show me a US President that did: Gulag, summary executions, purges, famine, a deliberate personality cult, NKVD, general human rights abuses, regular assassination of enemies, etc
>>1366224
>I-What? I asked for examples of presidents being or doing things as bad as Stalin
I gave you clear examples. Reliance on slave labor as policy for building infrastructure is the same as reliance on gulag labor as policy for building infrastructure.
Starving out the native population while managing resources to go for the industrial and colonial classes is the same as managing resources to to the industrial and Non-Siberian classes.
The Trail of Tears and starvation has direct parallel to the Siberians being starved.
The USSR and USA, are largely, similar in beginning, only given drastic change of ideology.
>>1366237
Literally none of that is accurate and you're disregarding everything else I posted. I'm going with one of three things here.
A. You're retarded beyond hope
B. You're a troll
C. You're retarded beyond hope as well as a troll
Whichever it is, I'm going to leave now. You have fun.
>>1366272
>you're disregarding everything else I posted
Fine
>Justifying something is different than creating/massively expanding the institution of it
Like what America did.
>and the Trail of Tears killed like 3000 people, mostly from disease and exposure, which is different than the couple million in Ukraine.
It was an example. We blame starvation of the Siberians entirely on the USSR for mismanaging their resources to put things towards the metropolitan areas, rightly so. They killed many that rebelled. Yet at the same time, we say it was not our fault we did not try to manage resources to the native population, and killed many that rebelled.
The problem here is that you think new nations with ideology first and foremost are founded on principles that don't put ideology first and foremost. America did similar as the Soviet.
>mostly from disease and exposure
Quite literally, adding starvation, the cause of the largest communist genocides.
>Show me a president on the same level of bad as Stalin
The first 16 to 20. Andrew Jackson comes to mind. This is of course, not counting the pre-indepndence colonial era.
>summary executions, purges, famine, a deliberate personality cult
These are all things America has done.
>NKVD, general human rights abuses, regular assassination of enemies, etc
All things America has done.
>Whichever it is, I'm going to leave now. You have fun.
Thanks, happy Fourth of July
>>1366311
>Like what America did.
Which is not a president.
>It was an example.
A bad one
>We blame starvation of the Siberians
What starvation? Are you talking about the famines that affected everyone, even the 'metropolitan' areas? The ones that killed millions of people? The ones that are not at all equivalent to the Trail of Tears?
>Quite literally, adding starvation, the cause of the largest communist genocides.
I have no idea what you're saying here, but let me just say this. 3000 people dying from exposure and disease is entirely different than a few million dying from starvation.
>The first 16 to 20. Andrew Jackson comes to mind.
Are you actually serious? Are you seriously saying that George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, William Hnery Harrison, John Tyler, James Polk, Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, and Abraham Lincoln were ALL as bad as Stalin? Are you fucking retarded?
>These are all things America has done.
America is NOT a president, and no it hasn't. The US never had something equal to the purges, the famines, or the personality cult of Stalin.
>All things America has done.
America is NOT a president, and no it hasn't. The US never had an NKVD equivalent and the same level of human rights abuses and the political assassination of opposition
Having had done something is not at all the same thing as doing it on a regular basis for decades, while under orders from a single man. Yes American presidents have done some of the same things, but never even close to the scale or severity of what Stalin did.
>The problem here is that you think new nations with ideology first and foremost are founded on principles that don't put ideology first and foremost. America did similar as the Soviet.
No the problem here is you're an edgy retard who needs to get out of puberty.
I'm done, you're painfully retarded and I don't see this going anywhere.
>>1363623
White people being treated like common niggers.
>>1357421
your sex life is a spook
>>1363540
>>1363549
>>1363571
>>1363955
Put the bourgeois propaganda down famalam.
>>1363549
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania were annexed after 1939. Ukraine and White Russia were annexed before 1926.
>>1363540
>not trusting historical documents
>>1363571
Except the population of Poland and Germany were actually decimated after the war. As was the Jewish population. Their plight to Israel leaves millions unaccounted for.
>>1363955
>pre-jewish media reproduction
Why did it fall so drastically after World War Two? When millions actually did die?
>>1366096
Well.. Under McKinley maybe as much as 300,000 Filipinos were murdered, under Johnson hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese civilians were killed during bombing campaigns he himself approved. Ronald Reagan supplied criminals in Nicaragua and gave aid to both Iran and Iraq. Jackson defied Supreme Court Orders and forced the Indians on the Trail of Tears.
>>1357413
He killed lots of commies so he was based.
>>1357462
He kinda killed his whole opposition after torturing a member of the opposition until he snitched his mates, like hitler. Literally told members of the "parliament" to gun them down on the spot.
Posting a meme for lightening up the thread, also plus relevance
