Is Islam just a Christian heresy?
>>1356946
No, it's a Jewish heresy's heresy.
>>1356946
It was seen as such in the middle ages, at least by some. But I don't think that a religion that doesn't consider Jesus Christ to be God can be called christian, not even heretically christian.
Judaism + christianity + zoroastrism = Islam
>>1356946
Muhammad was probably originally an Ebionite.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites
Ebionites (Greek: Ἐβιωναῖοι Ebionaioi, derived from Hebrew אביונים ebyonim, ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones"), is a patristic term referring to a Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era.[1] They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity[2] and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites.[3] They used only one of the Jewish Gospels, revered James the Just, and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law.[4] Their name suggests that they placed a special value on voluntary poverty.
>Some scholars argue that the Ebionites survived much longer and identify them with a sect encountered by the historian Abd al-Jabbar ibn Ahmad around the year 1000.[32]
There is another possible reference to Ebionite communities, existing some time around the 11th century, in northwestern Arabia, in Sefer Ha'masaot, the "Book of the Travels" of Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela, a rabbi from Spain. These communities were located in two cities: Tayma and "Tilmas",[33] possibly Sa`dah in Yemen.
The 12th-century Muslim historian Muhammad al-Shahrastani mentions Jews living in nearby Medina and Hejaz who accepted Jesus as a prophetic figure and followed traditional Judaism, rejecting mainstream Christian views.[34] Some scholars argue that they contributed to the development of the Islamic view of Jesus due to exchanges of Ebionite remnants with the first Muslims.[13][35]
>>1356946
Yep
Bahira-Sergius, the monk created islam after he was expelled of Alexandria, and Muhammad was also influenced by Waraqah a christian priest.
>>1356971
Jewish polytheism + Zoroastrianism + nationalistic war cult = Judaism
>>1357013
>Implying Zoroastrianism had an influence.
You quite literally can't make the argument without applying different standards of critical reading to Zoroastrian holy texts as you do to Jewish holy texts, which makes the entire thing speculation at best.
>>1356946
Yes.
>>1357028
Zoroastrianism was a warrior/militant religion
The whole yihad thing comes from there
>>1356946
Christianity is a heresy of Islam
>>1357042
And the Yohwah cult was also that of a war god.
But that's not quite what I'm getting at. The earliest extant copy of a Zoroastrian holy text dates to the 12th century AD. The earliest mention of a Zoroastrian holy text, (not actually a copy) dates to the second century AD.
Using either of them to determine what the beliefs of Zorastrians circa 600 B.C. when their influence upon Judaism supposedly happened is shaky at best. The theory also completely leaves out any influence on either or both religions from other extant polytheistic Persian/Babylonian religions floating around at the time. Given that the similarities between the two are most pronounced in things like angelology/demonolgy and not in cases like what the nature of God/Ahura Mazda is like, could very well point to some other influence on both.
>>1356990
>Muhammad was probably originally an Ebionite.
srsly? that would be interesting, do you have sources on this?
>>1356946
the other way around fuckboy
>>1357142
No unfortunately, but as you can see by the map, they were highly prevalent on the Arabian peninsula, (Muhammad's birthplace) and Muslims share roughly the same views on Jesus, kosher, covenant as the Ebionites did.
>>1356946
I heard that the Christian belief about Islam, is that Muhammad did receive a divine message, but he interpreted it wrong, thus starting a whole new religion
>>1357332
There are Christians that agree on Mohammed having recieved a divine message, in order to take the Arabs ("the children of Ismael") out of the age of idolatry and make them monotheistic. They also state that [God will give] these children of Ismael will play an important role at the End of Days, but do not specify which role exactly.
Nope. At its most basic and most inclusive definition, Christianity is the belief that Jesus is Messiah. Muslims regard Jesus as a penultimate Messiah, so I'd say they lie just outside the most broad definition of Christian. Therefore, questions of orthodoxy vs. heresy do not apply. It is not a Christian belief claim.
christianity is just jewish herecy
>>1357622
Not really. Jews are still waiting on the Messiah. Christianity is just the realization of Jewish prophecy and a new convenant with God, making everyone "His chosen" rather than just the Israelites.
Mohammad was a merchant who travelled a lot and traded with a variety of people. He got in touch with Christianity and Judaism, so Islam is tightly connected to these religions. I would say he wanted power so he created Islam and converted people and made a mess.
>>1357689
Jewish conceptions of Messianity are that the Messiah is human, a perfect king of the Davidic line.
Claiming that the Messiah is an incarnation of God (or indeed, God taking any human form) is pretty serious heresy as far as Judaism is concerned.
>>1356946
Jewish heresy.
>>1356955
>But I don't think that a religion that doesn't consider Jesus Christ to be God can be called christian, not even heretically christian.
Nigga one of the biggest early "heresies" of Christianity flat out denied Christ's divinity.
>>1356950
That's Christianity
>>1360790
Christianity is just a jewish heresy, not a jewish heresy's heresy.
>>1357042
>He hasn't read the Avesta
Zoroastrianism isn't militant, i mean look at the Parsis do they like jihadists or crusaders ?
>>1356946
yep. Mohammad taught Jesus was the Messiah and is also the Word of God incarnate.
