Is there a value in practicing asceticism even if you're an atheist?
>Asceticism (/əˈsɛtJsJzəm/; from the Greek: ἄσkησις áskesis, "exercise" or "training") is a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from worldly pleasures, often for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals (Wikipedia)
Interestingly, a minimalism movement/aesthetic have grown out of rising capitalism. Is that a sign asceticism has or will have a place in modern society? An alternative lifestyle focusing on the higher things of life such as philosophical questions. Naturally a hipster minimalist facade is not ascetic but perhaps it's a wind in that direction at least.
Personally I've been attracted to asceticism for years and I'm not entirely sure why, maybe it's just masochism, but it does feel less hypocritical and more cleansing.
Stoicism has nothing to do with belief in gods. So sure.
>>1351126
>Stoicism
What has this got to do with anything
>>1351117
>atheism
>pursuing spiritual goals
>>1351117
I tried this for 11 years before I gave up.
Everything about you is built for sex down to the genetic level. Your sense of pleasure is to encourage sex (the greatest release of serotonin is during sex). Forming social bonds and communities is to propagate sex and the protection of children. Your brain releases chemicals that literally brain washes you into being willing to starve to death if it means feeding your children (aka love).
It is a mistake that I've also made myself, thinking that trying to fight your literal DNA will lead to something greater. It drives your ego, the idea that your able to resist and focus on "real, important" things like expanding your mind and psychological issues while these retards are praising getting drunk and having 6 children. It's bad though.
It is like resisting hunger or feeling pain. Yes, you can do it with enough willpower, which this process does increase exponentially(one of the few good things) But your body is going to fight you every step of the way, and it's never going to stop fighting you. Your never going to get to a point where you were celibate for 10 years and your brain goes "alright, you win" and deletes your sex drive. It just keeps piling on and you will become hyper sensitive to people even touching you. Your body will induce depression that will lead you to some kind of mental disorder or obsession or suicide. There is a reason people literally go insane when kept in solitary confinement or stranded alone.
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>>1351117
>>1351240
Part 2/2
All that said, you don't need to avoid "worldly pleasures" to discover things about the mind. In fact the two tracks go with each other. Just accept what you basically are as a biological being. Your body has its own desires (food, sex, comfort) that directly influence your "mind". It is not a separate entity that you can ignore with no repercussions. If you don't think so, just don't eat for a day and tell me what you think about the most.
I hope that made sense, I'm half asleep. Just don't do it man. I've done it for a decade and it led to me going to sleep at night thinking about the knife on my dresser making the pain stop. I don't want others to make the same mistake.
>>1351117
Mein gott, pure ideology
The recent architectural/cultural trends are all about minimalism, modesty and self-restraint, yet its only the rich who can actually afford to indulge in non-indulgence
It's poor people who are actually less superficial in this instance: they love all that cheap, gaudy kitch materialism and 'worldly' pleasures which the elites are now starting to turn their noses up at.
>>1351117
>naturally you arent ascetic if i dislike your beard and shirt
Every time.
>>1351240
Everything about you is built for chasing down goats in the sun for hours until they collapse from heat and exhaustion.
You manage fine without doing that.
>>1351285
Except for the fact that regular exercise had proven to treat 70-80% of clinical depression cases.... almost like we are built to exercise constantly.
>>1351278
Not everyone is the same. Some people are born with differently formed brains that cause multiple personalities such as sociopaths or down syndrome. On top of that, I believe monks are a religious order who are raised from childhood iirc. Take a child and indoctrinate him in a system and have him live on a mountain surrounded only by others of that system, is it hard to see them following it regardless of their feelings? I know plenty of Christians who had mental breakdowns because they were resisting being gay but honestly thought they would burn in hell, so never did it. That's without living secluded.
>>1351278
>>1351315
Then you have adult applicants in some cases, for mookhood. There are all kinds of reasons why someone would want to escape to seclusion. Maybe they hate the unnatural way our society's live (work in concrete boxes, sleep in boxes, but the new iPhone) or they had a bad string of relationships with shallow people and never had a fulfilling connection so they think attaining "inner peace" will give them what their looking for. I couldn't say without looking at them case by case.
>>1351315
Regular exercise is to chasing goats in the sun barefoot like masturbation is to raiding other bands to steal and rape their women.
You don't need to go all primal, you can just get a good substitute.
And as far as sex is concerned, your body takes you for a wet dream once every few weeks if you keep your discipline up and don't touch yourself. Biology just won't let you abstain from that gear check.
>>1351315
you fail to see that your fantasy of external necessity ''''''''''''''''justifying'''''''''''''''''''your actions is your little story about DNA and other retarded fantasies from your faith in scientific realism
>>1351117
What does belief in God (capital G) have to do with spirituality?
>>1351332
Are you going for the asian thing where there is no one god, rather all of us together form god, as there is a little piece of him in every mind?
>>1351339
No, I'm not. I'm saying that belief in God and belief in the metaphysical aren't mutually inclusive.
>>1351329
Are you saying regular exercise is not like regular exercise (persistence hunting)?
Avoiding worldly pleasure while accepting wet dreams as an alternative defeats the whole purpose. You can't non-hypocritcally say your avoiding eating but it's okay because my body will eat for me while I sleep.
>>1351332
>capital G
Shit dude, I can only take you completely serious now, damn. Nice work for clarifying that.
>>1351330
Are you saying the human desire for sex and social structure does not exist? Let me know when you can tie your own shoes so I can clap.
>>1351344
Are you saying sexual stimulation is not like sexual stimulation (masturbation or involuntary arousal and ejaculation)?
Are you saying that social contact is not like social contact (posting on 4chan and communicating with people thusly)?
These are about as related as lifting weights at the gym is to chasing a goat to death.
>>1351136
>What has this got to do with anything
Stoics tend to be ascetic.
>>1351240
reminder that cutting off your penis is literally unlocking the door to red pills
What if I just want to be internally strong?
I lack will and focus (I hardly put my mind into a single thing at once) and I thought maybe a lifestyle chage could help me attain those.
>>1351396
It is doubted that he actually cut his own cock off. Such a procedure is dangerous to perform and survive by yourself in those days. It was likely a rumor circulated about him.
He didn't take MATT 9:12 literally.
>>1351463
You couldn't practice asceticism without a big amount of self-discipline. It's the passive form of self-discipline though so actually in a sense I think laziness can help. Fasting for example is easy in that regard. You just don't eat. Granted, you'll get a headache and feel weak etc, but it's not an active action, you just passively accept it.
>>1351240
What if you practice asceticism, but jerk off?
>>1351240
>tfw haven't masturbated in 6 months
>sex drive is completely gone
Will it go back? If not,I no longer feel the need to do anything related with sex. I was kind of just winging it to see what would happen, but I fear I might have just turned myself asexual.
>>1352492
You might just be depressed.
>>1351126
>I haven't read a single Stoic work
The middle path, anon. I suggest reading pic related.
Read Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, Essay Three
asceticism only got more powerful in atheism
>>1352833
Go fuck yourself.
Middle path is just for pussies and plebs who are too mediocre and too hypocritical to do something full-out. Radicalism is good, be bold in what you decide to do.
>>1352866
Mind giving a tl;dr?
>>1352883
>Given the extraordinary success of the ascetic ideal in imposing itself on our entire culture, what can we look to oppose it? "Where is the counterpart to this closed system of will, goal, and interpretation?" (§23) Nietzsche considers as possible opponents of the ideal: (a) modern science; (b) modern historians; (c) "comedians of the ideal" (§27).
(a) Science is in fact the "most recent and noblest form" of the ascetic ideal. It has no faith in itself, and acts only as a means of self-anesthetization for sufferers (scientists) who do not want to admit they suffer. In apparent opposition to the ascetic ideal, science has succeeded merely in demolishing the ideal's "outworks, sheathing, play of masks, [...] its temporary solidification, lignification, dogmatization" (§25). By dismantling church claims to the theological importance of man, scientists substitute their self-contempt [cynicism] as the ideal of science.
(b) Modern historians, in trying to hold up a mirror to ultimate reality, are not only ascetic but highly nihilistic. As deniers of teleology, their "last crowings" are "To what end?," "In vain!," "Nada!" (§26)
(c) An even worse kind of historian is what Nietzsche calls the "contemplatives": self-satisfied armchair hedonists who have arrogated to themselves the praise of contemplation (Nietzsche gives Ernest Renan as an example). Europe is full of such "comedians of the Christian-moral ideal." In a sense, if anyone is inimical to the ideal it is they, because they at least "arouse mistrust" (§27).
>>1351198
>not understanding the term "often"
>not understanding the term "atheism"
Is asceticism a sign of mental illness?
>>1351315
>I believe monks are a religious order who are raised from childhood iirc
No, that's virtually never the case, at least with Orthodox monks. They all join at adulthood, or late adolescent at the earliest (very unusual).
>>1353247
No, but hedonism is.
I like to call myself an oblate because the term "NEET" carries too many hedonistic connotations.
