Were the crusades justified?
They didn't win so there's no justification. Cause isn't the reason people go to war. It's ultimately the outcome that inspires people.
They were perversions of two religions, run by power hungry radicals in both camps.
Hell, more than two religions if you break up Christianity to East and West. You had power hungry politicians in both Christian churches. Plus you have secular power grabs like how Venice was a huge city of influence.
>>1342115
Well, it was in response to the attacks by the Seljuks of Rum and Unaffiliated Slavers.
it was initially a defensive measure. That much is true.
Then it got to just attacking any Muslim nation who was in the immediate proximity.
Hell, The Fatimids initially even offered to help the Crusaders fight back the Sunni Turks. Then the Crusaders attacked them.
>>1342115
Of course it was. Those God damn levantines deserved it for what the Turks in Anatolia did.
As did the Jews, Muslims and heretics living in the Jerusalem that hadn't been Christian for centuries.
And don't even get me started on what those Ummayyads did hundreds of years before this all went down.
Of course, Muhammad was a warlord and his followers were vile rapists and pillagers. They destroyed the Persia Empire and a great deal of Byzantine Empire.
Then the Turks came and made it all worse.
>>1342115
>posting inaccurate /pol/ memegraphics
Sure it's justified if you're a Christian, defending the Holy Land from barbarians.
But as someone who isn't religious at all, it just seems like war for the sake of cultural delusions.
>>1342143
Persians like Sheikh Tabari, an-Nisai and Bukhari loved Muhammad and shaped the foundations of Islam
Not to mention Salman the Persian, a Companion of Muhammad from nearly the beginning
So clearly the Persians weren't as buttmad as you (and the rest of the diaspora) are about something that happened 1400 yrs ago
Also plenty of God's prophets could be described as 'warlords' by those with the strange inclination to do so. All that bein said I don't like most of the so-called Caliphs or their behavior, but there are exceptions as in all things
>>1342156
Dude? Pisslam is part of the same abrahamic monotheist poison that Christardation comes from, as far as me and many other people here are concerned the world will be made a better place when the last preacher is strangled with the guts of the last imam.
>>1342143
Yes, they weren't religiously tolerant like the Sassanids and Byzanti...Oh.
>>1342159
Enjoy hell abomination
>>1342159
Now that's what I call Völkisch.
>>1342159
If that's true, then what makes you different from that imam calling for the death of x y and z? More people like you actually listen to them.
>>1342161
>I'm not talking about God's prophet's. I'm talking about Muhammad.
If you condemn the actions of a man who called himself the Prophet of God 1400 years ago, you are a hypocrite if you adore another man who did more of the same 2400 years ago.
>>1342115
The only thing an act needs to be justified is the energy necessary to carry it out. That energy must necessarily be more than the momentum against it.
Of course the crusades were justified. The only crusades which weren't justified were the ones which were never important enough to actually be done.
All things that are either allowed to happen or which force themselves into existence are permissible.
>>1342166
Fuck off back to the desert.
As a call to defend Christians in Christian lands against raids, rapes, and pillaging by Muslims, yes, absolutely.
The same exact thingsame are happening today to Christians by Mohammedians.
>>1342161
yes, yes, It's a cult of death founded by a mean old murderpedorapistbestializer who did such horrible things like consummate his marriage with a bride who hit puberty, as all premodern societies have done, Kill spies, kill people on the battlefield, execute people for treason and tax people.
Truly sticks out like a sore thumb in the history of conquerors.
>>1342179
>9
>puberty
Not in any capacity. It was a ploy to secure the title of the true Rome more than anything else.
>>1342171
Deep.
>>1342174
>Military Invasion
>Immigration of a people the sum of which is less than 1% of the population of Europe.
No problem there.
>>1342171
We'd undoubtedly be better off without human beings running around thinking they have a divine warrant for their actions - whether that be hacking some poor blokes head off, oppressing women or meddling in science
stop asking about the crusades /pol/
we don't need this thread 5 times a day
>>1342115
The ones against the Moors/Arabs in Europe were. The rest were just them chimping out and muh holy lands.
>>1342181
Aisha's age was exaggerated post-mortem to advertise her as Muhammad's only pure wife, i.e. She was so young she HAD to be a Virgin
In reality their married was most likely consummated at 15
With that said, Mary, mother of Christ was 12 when she married Joseph--so those in glass houses etc
>>1342188
>Christians getting raped, murdered and driven our of the middle east, to include Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and Iraq.
>Muslims raping in Europe, being covered up and facilitated by European governments. Encouraged.
>Not a problem.
Not so fast, /leftypol/
>>1342174
>http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/christians-displaced-support-by-najaf.html
Most of the persecution in that region is against both Shi'a and Christians--the former being Muslims themselves
The problem isn't Islam, and the fact Christians and Shi'a still exist in the area is indicative of that (if the situation was this bad throughout history they all would've fled by now to Armenia or somewhere), it's Salafism, a radical interpretation of Islam pushed by the likes of Saudi Arabia and carried out by the likes of ISIS and al-Qaeda
>>1342192
Thoughts occupy the physical realm in your brain. Actions occupy the physical realm outside your brain. There is not switch or difference in natural law between the two areas. If it would be undoubtedly better for humans to not have certain humans
>running around thinking they have a divine warrant for their actions
then why were they allowed to do it? Where did it happen at all?
You are implicitly saying that you are better than those people, because your views on human interaction are superior. However, your thoughts on these matters never go beyond your head, and the thoughts of the people who did those things clearly did. They changed the history of the human race. I am inclined to think they are better than you until you prove otherwise, and it follows that their
>running around thinking they have a divine warrant for their actions
was also better for the human race than your ideas. Or are you some kind of super genius who knows better than all the minds put together of the societies you are talking about?
>>1342197
The Mother of God, the Holy Virgin Mary was that, a virgin, for long after marrying Joseph.
Aisha has no such place to even compare, in any way, to Her.
>>1342209
>Religious people cannot defend their actions through argument only violence
And if they argue with one of another religion, no one can win because both parties are talking utter rubbish to each other, in approximately equal quantities.
So if they must clash, they must fight instead of arguing. That, way they get what their faith has taught them to believe they need most: a clear winner. Clear because the loser is dead now.
It was a workable system, a long time ago. Not any more. Religion is the culprit. It is the bane of reason and of much potential happiness.
>>1342172
You WILL burn
>>1342230
I apologize if I offended you--it was furthest from my intentions. I was merely drawing parallels to their age when they were married, I didn't mean to compare them beyond that.
>>1342241
Right alongside Mohammed.
