What did the Romans think of facial hair and body hair in general? What did they think about tattoos and such?
>>1335536
All Roman Legionnaires shaved and kept their hair short, and presumably banned tattoos as well.
Only when they started hiring foederati did beards became allowed again
>>1335546
The foederati, who are they? I know very little about the Romans and the empire.
>>1335536
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXvi1MS_0jI
Romans were not immune to fashion. Sometimes facial hair was fashionable, sometimes it was not. On body hair, Julius Caesar consistently depilated himself, but I seriously doubt the soldiers had time and will to bother with that too much.
Tattoos were barbaric.
>>1335546
>Only when they started hiring foederati did beards became allowed again
[citation needed]
>>1335574
> but I seriously doubt the soldiers had time and will to bother with that too much.
Confirmed for knowing shit about hand to hand combat.
If you have a beard or long hair that allows the enemy something to grab onto, giving you a serious disadvantage
>>1335556
The foederati were people in a military alliance with Rome. In early roman history that meant certain italic and gaul tribes whose alliance didn't follow military subjugation, but the other anon was talking of late empire, so it meant mostly germanic tribes allowed to settle in the empire in exchange for military service.
>>1335582
TOP KEK.
That hardly matters for anything larger scale than a bar brawl. If you have a sword and a shield you're not gonna bother trying to grab your opponent's hair. Hell it's not even considered a worthwhile tactics in modern hand to hand combat, you open yourself up a lot to inflict minimal damage and obstruction.
The reason many armies were against beards is simply hygiene (and in some cases homogeneity for discipline and esprit de corps' sake): long beards, like long hair, is just yet another place for dirt & parasite to gather.
>>1335582
>be fighting in formation
>throw your shield/weapon to grab a dudes beard
>guy cuts your hand before you can even reach the beard
>in case you're lucky enough to grab the beard of the individual you're probably out of formation and get killed by his companions
Beards were more of a Greek thing. But many Romans sported them as well.
>>1335582
No one will grab onto a beard unless it's a very long one. Beard is not that impractical in combat.
>>1335594
Noone is gonna grab any hair even if they're very long, because at that point one would just tie them tight and tuck them into their clothes.
>>1335598
Not to mention the dangers of grabbing in armed combat. If you're so close to him you can grab his hair you better be before an already defeated enemy.
>>1335582
Idiot
>>1335598
Long hair is simply impractical when it comes to wearing helmets. It feels comfier under a helmet with short hair.
>>1335582
I WILL DROP MY SWORD TO GRAB YOUR BEARD AND PULL IT
AHA
*gets stabbed*
I bet you think plumes on helmets were only ceremonial too
>>1335536
In general these things were taboo, with occasional exceptions.
However there was a sort of yuppie aristocracy movement that wore goatees around the time Julius Caesar was in his 20s/30s.
Caesar himself sported one for a while, and older Romans held their noses at this. I've having trouble finding a source for this, so I might be wrong.
>>1335618
Yes well, it's not like your helmet is the only place to put your hair in. Just tie it in a queue and chuck it down your back in your collar.
>>1335618
You get used to it when, you know, you had long hair for all your life.
>>1335590
>>1335592
>>1335594
>>1335615
>>1335626
Not him, but you're all idiots.
In an ancient battle it was very probable to loose your weapon and/or shield or to break them. Obviously nobody is going to drop them to grab beards, but once you've lost one of them and are required to stand in your position for the sake of your life and that of your comrades (or even if you can't back up because of the formation you're in -> phalanx, testudo, etc.) you would fucking love to be clean-shaven while fighting one of those Germanic beards.
>>1335682
Yes but for cultural reasons, not because it's comfier under the helmet or to avoid the enemy from grabbing a handful.
>>1335709
the guy in the rank behind you would pass you his weapon, pikemen in particular were trained to do this
>>1335709
You seem to lack the concept of range buddy. If you're fighting a man armed with anything longer than a knife, you're not gonna grab anything beyond his arm, if even that, because to do so you need to get past his weapon while being wholly helpless. Good fucking luck with that.
>>1335716
I'm not the guy y'all were originally talking to but I did want to correct the idea that most roman men wore their hair long.
And I can see long hair being a hindrance under a helmet tbqh.
Football helmets, k pots, and ACHs all feel much more comfortable with short hair.
Especially if you're practicing or marching in any sort of heat.
>>1335709
This post is autistic
>>1335751
Well my experience with helmets is limited to motorcycle ones, but I never find there to be a real comfort difference. You'd be surprised by how little do hair bother you in the heat, they're more trouble for the neck (in which case just tie them) than they are for the head itself.
>>1335770
>You'd be surprised by how little do hair bother you in the heat, they're more trouble for the neck (in which case just tie them) than they are for the head itself.
Aren't motorcycle helmets ridiculously padded though?
I mean correct me if I'm wrong.
That said my experience is with american football helmets and modern military helmets, neither of which bear much resemblance to anything worn in rome back then.
I wonder if there are any early roman republic reenactors on the board who could pipe in.
>>1335795
>Aren't motorcycle helmets ridiculously padded though?
I don't know what your standards for "ridiculously" are, but with modern ones, as long as you're moving heat is not a factor in any way. Air flow tech has reached the point where internal temperature is a non issue.
>>1335709
No, absolutely not, a beard being grabbable would have to be a very long and thick beard and it would only really be possible to grab it in a wrestling match. Most warriors or soldiers carried a back up weapon as well. Anyone who tries to grab a beard is going to get stabbed.
>>1335751
>I did want to correct the idea that most roman men wore their hair long.
Fair enough, but I don't think that idea ever existed, so there's not really much to correct.
>>1335582
>If you have a beard or long hair that allows the enemy something to grab onto, giving you a serious disadvantage
If you try to grab someone's hair in a shield wall, you get killed by the guy next to him
>>1335629
is that Caligula?
>>1337294
Caracalla.
GRAB MUH BEARD MATE
>>1335582
I'd like to point out that no one has noticed that this guy contradicted a point stating "soldiers kept their head hair and facial hair short or shaved but didn't have time to depilate their entire body like aristocrats" with "kek the enemy will grab the beard."
GRAB
MY
BEARD
IIRC Scipio Africanus was the first major Roman statesman to be invariably clean-shaven, supposedly in imitation of Alexander the Great.
>>1337580
I thought Alex had pretty sweet sideburns
>be italian
>shave everything every 48 hours or go into autistic fits of fury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJSWy2o_1I
*beard tugging intensifies*
>>1337534
Kek it's true.
>be roman legionary
>barbarshits attack
>go into formation
>ohfuck I forgot to shave today
>now I'm dead
>>1336323
Most soldiers would like to think "If he is close enough to grab my beard, then he is nearly dead already."
>>1337809
Censorship laws.
>>1335629
>>1337294
>>1337450
I cant tell you much about tattoos, but I have to imagine they were fine with them.
Roman legionaries in the late period were branded on the hand with "the military mark". Basically the military tattoo of the day.
Overall it probably depends on the time period, but I would have a hard time believing that a roman soldier would be refused service because he had a tattoo.
>>1335536
A centurion with a Spandau, that's what Rome needed to turn back the Germanic hordes!
>>1337914
>berber
>black
what?
Romans were normally clean-shaven, maybe sporting some light facial hair. A full beard was associated with Greece and philosophers so it didn't always gel well with more conservative Romans. In fact Greek clothing and customs were downright scandalous in some contexts, such as speaking Greek in the senate or wearing a pallium during official functions instead of the Toga.
While Greece was very well respected for its culture and learning it was seen as "un-Roman" by many, perhaps most prominently Cato the Elder.
>>1335536
Varied massively over time. Early on, Romans equated beards with the Greeks and so were clean shaven. Later, after they'd conquered Greece, beards became fashionable, and even later, when barbarians had effectively taken over the legions, long hair and beards in the Germanic style were the norm.
I'm surprised to see that no one's mentioned that the fashion of going completely clean shaven across the Roman army and empire came about from kind of copying the style from the famous general Scipio Africanus during the second punic war. From what I've read it became particularly widespread and I imagine culturally expected from soldiers after his victory at Zama. I'm not suggesting that no one ever grew beards either
>>1338467
WUZ
>>1338557
KANGZ
>>1337919
>I would have a hard time believing that a roman soldier would be refused service because he had a tattoo.
Depending on the time period, especially the early republic days. I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if he was refused, even laughed at.
>>1335536
>beards
Seen as Greek degenerate faggotry
>>1338569
But the Romans loved Greeks, degeneracy and faggotry
>>1337914
you trying to tell me ice cube was a kang
>>1335536
To Romans, tattoos were always a violation of one's body, mind and spirit. A shadow from a set of beliefs and preconceptions from the days of fighting pagans.
>>1335536
why the barbarians have a machine gun
that's now how I remember it
>>1335582
Kek. Sure you grap with your hand the beard of your opponent. One move and your hand is cut.
Damn what's wrong today. First this dude who says longbows go trough heavy medival armor and "knights" are the slow unit and some other rpg class shit. And now you. Are you the same guy ? Kek
As far as I know, they had to completely shave all their body and have short hair.
Sadly, now a man who shaves his legs fe.example is considered a bit homo like the skirts.
>>1342654
Longbows can't melt steel plates.
>>1343385
SHEIT
>>1338624
no they didn't
>>1335536
Roman civilization lasted over two thousand years, and arguably up to over three thousand. You'd be hard-pressed to say any generalizing trend for it. Sometimes beards were in fashion, other times they were not.
>>1342790
>Syphilis
That's a new world disease anon, there is zero possibility Scipio had it.
I always figured it was sanitary thing, long hair and a beard probably gets very dirty and smelly on campaign since you wouldn't be able to thoroughly wash.
Hadrian had a beard to honor his master (Epictetus).
>half of the posts in this thread are about grabbing legionaries hair and beards by barbarians
>>1335546
I could never do this as a black man. My hair grows in coarse and curly and its literal torture when it grows in. First it stick in the skin coming up then when its semi-long the jagged ends poke my on top of the scalp instead. 0/10 would not reccomend.
