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You are currently reading a thread in /his/ - History & Humanities

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How many Roman Empires were there and when did the last one fall?
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There was one and will always only be one. Every one that came after were just faggots that couldn't let go.
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>>1320664
>How many Roman Empire were there
Only one, the Roman Empire. (27 AD - 1453 AD)

>Wheh did the last one fall
May 29, 1453.
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There was one, administered by two different governments. One of these collapsed in the 5th century, the other in the 15th century
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>>1320692
>May 29, 1453

>>1311453
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>>1320664
Five:
Roman Empire (collapsed 476)
Eastern Roman Empire (collapsed 1453)
Russian Empire (official collapse 1917, status as Roman Empire revoked 1815)
British Empire (status as Roman Empire revoked 1945)
United States of America (current)
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>>1320692
Absolutely correct.
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>>1320814
How do you justify the last two?
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>>1320664

Only one.
476
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>>1320812
That guy has an almost childlike understanding of art history, it'd be cute if I didn't think people would take him seriously.
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>>1320817
Not same anon, but I consider them branches of the Roman Empire due to being based on the same fundamentals (the Greeks).
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>>1320849
He also thinks that quislings prove that Christianity was hated by the common people. I'm betting 'Halfway through undergrad, at the point where he's acing the intro courses and has not yet been sat down in a tutorial and schooled on how little he knows.'
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>>1320849
Perhaps, but I linked his post only because his post number ended in 1453 and he was talking about the fall of the ERE.
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>>1320814
The Spanish empire have more claim than the later two. At least they spoke some Latin based language.
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>>1320959
By that logic, the Byzantines don't qualify as Roman successors either, because they used Medieval Greek as the language of adminstration from Heraclius in 629 and Greek was also the lingua franca.
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>>1320984
>By that logic, the Byzantines don't qualify as Roman successors either

Well, they don't.
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>>1320889
>>1320849
Guys? His argument is actually fairly sound, the endless internecine warfare and strife that monotheism brought to europe made europe weaker then it should have been.
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>>1320992
>Spanish Empire qualifies as successor
>Byzantines don't
topkek
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why does no one mentions the best empire?
holy roman empire
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>>1320812
It's retarded, he took all that time to write some retarded shit.. it's sad.
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>>1321021
>
>
>
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>>1321021
>why does no one mentions the best empire?
>holy roman empire
of the German Nation
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>>1320814
>no ottoman
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>>1320832
>im retarded
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The true heir is the Republic of Chile
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>>1321162
>to be the "Roman Empire," you don't need to control the city of Rome or any lands in Italy, be actual Romans, speak Latin, or share the same culture
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>>1320664
two - Roman Empire (27BC - 1806 AD)
and Eastern wannabe Roman Empire (330 – 1453)
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>>1321328
>1806 AD
wut
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>>1321217
No, but you do need to be the premier economic, cultural, and military superpower of the Western World, and since, by definition, Islam cannot be considered Western, this leaves a huge gap in the periodization of Roman Imperium. Therefore I must conclude that "The Third Rome" i.e. Moscow, must take the place of Rome in the interim between the fall of Constantinople and the hegemony of the British Empire. I would count Spain if not for the fact that they have never been considered a successor of Rome by anybody; the HRE has greater claim than they do, despite Spain's world importance from 1492 to 1715. It's easier to just say the Caesars/Czars are Rome.
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>>1321217
>implying the city of Rome was relevant to the overall empire after the Crisis of the 3rd Century

>implying Italy was important to the overall empire in any way besides simply hosting the home base

>implying you had to be born in Rome to be a citizen of Rome

>implying Latin was the lingua franca of the whole empire, and not just the Western half, with Greek never losing dominance in the East

>implying there was one homogenous culture in the whole of the Roman domains
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>>1320664
1 original Roman Empire
1 fake "Holy" "Roman" "Empire"
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>>1321341
What about France? They were pretty important between 1453 and the mid-18th century when Britain really took off.
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>>1322158
And arguably the beacon of European culture in that time period, together with Italy's city states.
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285

From then, you had Western Rome and Eastern Rome.
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It never fell. The Papacy still exists.
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>>1322200
It's really cool to think of the Old See as the only living remnant of Rome. You could say the same of the Patriarchate but only to an extent because it was never sovereign within the Ottoman Empire, the way the Vatican was (Papal States etc.)
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>>1321333
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>>1322306
The Pope could crown a new Roman Emperor. It's his right to do so.
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>>1321021
The WHAT?!
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>>1322160
>>1322158
Incorrect, France's greatest apex was during the 12th and 13th centuries during the pre-Renaissance "Twelfth Century Renaissance."
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>>1320692
27 AD - 1204 AD
The Empire of Nicaea is not my bresident.
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>>1322482
The Protestants would shit themselves so hard.
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>>1321021
>>1321328
>>1322318
>
>
>
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>>1322306
Not after Vatican 2 ruined everything forever.
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>>1322725
Maybe culturally, but France was Europe's most important power between the 15th and 19th century.
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>>1322775
>pope mends schism
>declares Putin kaezar
will never happen tho
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>>1323159
>Putin
>worthy
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>>1321021
>:)
>:)
>:)
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>>1321217
You're so fucking stupid it hurts man
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>>1322482
Is it? Where could I read about this?
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>>1321341
>No, but you do need to be the premier economic, cultural, and military superpower of the Western World, and since, by definition, Islam cannot be considered Western, this leaves a huge gap in the periodization of Roman Imperium.
Since Turkey and Russia aren't part of the Western World, and in fact "Western" versus "eastern" is defined by the fracture of the Roman Empire, the Byzantines and Russians cannot be considered Western. This leaves a huge gap in the Periodization of the Roman Imperium.
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>>1323904
I always assumed the West was the Hellenic heritage, and encompassed the ME along with all Europe.
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>>1322759
Oh please, that was just another civil war. By your logic the Roman empire ended in 68 when Galba overthrew Nero
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>>1320664

>roman empire
>an empire administrated from rome

Last one was during WW2. Italy's government was centered in Rome, and they controlled some African countries.
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>>1320664
I don't remember how it goes but I'll try my best to follow the legacy of Rome.
>Roman Republic ends in 27 BC and the Roman Empire begins
>Roman Empire splits in two 284 AD
>WRE falls in 476 AD
>ERE lives on
>HRE is formed in 962 AD
>Byzantine Emperor sells title to Spain
>Russian king marries relative of last Byzantine Emperor
>ERE falls 1453(worst day of my life)
>Mehmet II makes claim as Roman Emperor
>Claim dies with him
>The last Byzantine strongholds fall in 1461(Trepizond) and 1475(Theodoro)
>HRE is now >>> and sucks so we don't count it
>Now is a good time to mention the Pope
>Papal States are an actual thing
>Claim to Roman Empire
>claim dismissed due to wrong government form
>Between Spain and Russia
>Napoleon comes into France and makes a claim
>Napoleon kicks ass but stops kicking ass and loses claim
>Napoleon III tries another claim and loses in the Franco-Prussian war
>Germany makes claim
>Loses this claim after WWI
>Spain loses claim finally after their civil war
>Russia loses claim after their revolution
>Finland is the only part of Russia that never goes commie
>Finland is the true successor to the Roman Empire

Sorry if some of it is off, I did it all from memory
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>>1320959
The Spanish Empire is a great successor, considering it rose almost exactly at the same time the ERE collapsed, and pretty much pioneered colonization.
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>>1320664
There's only one and it ended with the fall of Constantinople, but if you just want to have fun talking about successors:

Greek City-States -> Athenian Empire -> Macedonian Empire -> Roman Empire -> Split (WRE and ERE)
WRE -> Carolingian Empire -> HRE -> Habsburg Dynasty* -> Spanish Empire -> French Empire* -> British Empire* -> American Empire
ERE -> Ottoman Empire* -> Turkey
(ERE offshoot) Russian Empire -> USSR -> Russian Empire

*Points of contention:
-Germanic tribes brought down the WRE in much the same way the Ottomans brought down the ERE. Anatolia was as much an actual part of the ERE as Gaul was a part of the WRE, and Islam got popularized within the Anatolian grounds of the ERE. I find hypocritical to say the Ottoman doesn't count "because it's foreign/because it's Muslim" when the only reason Germanic tribes aren't foreign is that from the point of view of us in the West, they're as much our forefathers as the Romans that came before them. Get over your hate boner for Turkey.
-I'm not counting other WRE offshoots (the Visigoths, the Ostrogoths, the Lombards, etc.) along with the Franks because they become dead ends.
-I'm counting the French Empire as a successor to the Spanish Empire because it becomes a French satellite state.
-I'm counting the British Empire as a successor to the French Empire and the Habsburg Empire as a successor to the HRE because both become the winning rivals in their respective conflicts for influence.
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>>1326719
>Macedonian Empire -> Roman Empire
Pretty sure the Roman Republic existed before they conquered Macedon, they weren't a successor realm to Macedon.
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>>1324550
An outsider coming in and literally shattering the empire isn't a civil war.
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>>1326814
Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
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>>1326719
Slight correction:
HRE -> Split (Habsburg and 2nd Reich)
2nd Reich (German Empire) -> 3rd Reich -> German Federation -> EU -> United States of Europe
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>>1323904
Are you telling me Constantinople isn't the second Rome? That Moscow (whose royalty had heritable claims to the throne of Constantinople) was not the third?
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>>1327235
>WE WUZ TSAR
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>>1324143
Everything is, of course, a gradient with blurry ill-defined lines.

"The West" can be Western Europe, Western Europe + former colonies (which may or may not include populations with mixed heritage), all of Europe (including Russia and/or Turkey and/or the Caucasus nations), Europe + Near East, Europe + everything East of India and North of the Sahara, etc.

There's no clear definition and in most cases it depends on context. Anyone who says there's only one clear-cut answer has a naïve understanding of the world.
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>>1321021
the what what what
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