Does God have free will?
Only if he wants to have it.
If god can create everything he should be theoretically capable of creating a rock so heavy not even he could lift it up
But if he could not lift it up it also means that he's not omnipotent and not the ultimate master of the universe
So either he can't create the rock in the first place or he can create it but then can't lift it up afterwards because what he just created was too heavy
Judeo-christfags have never been able to resolve this dilemma kek
Free will is a meaningless term.
>>1311794
What if you just consider "all powerful" as in "able to do literally anything that's relevant"?
If the only way his power can be challenged is by his own actions, he still needs to make that action.
>>1311789
He can do what he wants, but can he want what he wants?
>trying to add human qualities to an alien and incomprehensible being
>>1311815
Well, that way you solve logical problems but God would be just kind of strongest guy here.
>>1311864
Free will is an abstract concept without any agreement whether humans have it or not, it is not a "human quality".
It's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether a hypothesised super-entity has it.
>>1311794
I think Christians already accept a god that can violate the laws of logic since he is 3 but 1 and at one point was fully divine and fully man.
So he could make the stone and pick it up. Doesn't make a lick of sense but he's god and already doesn't.
>>1311758
Yes, of course. Does God retreat into His sovereignty in order to allow us to express the sovereignty He has given us? Yes, of course.
>>1311794
It's not a dilemma. It's nonsense.
Nonsense is still nonsense even if you use the word "God" in it.
>>1311794
>Spouts just one theodicy solely based on the arguments of Aquino (not on the Bible)
>Thinks he's somehow worth hearing.
>>1311893
>It's nonsense.
That's because it is about omnipotence, a nonsense concept, as shown by the dilemma.
>>1311903
He is right. Omnipotence is illogical conception. It have no place in any kind of serious discussion. If God exist he isn't omnipotent.
>>1311903
No, it's just nonsense.
Omnipotence allows a person to do everything that requires power.
All things that require power.
A paradox is not a thing, and no amount of power can make a paradox real.
How about this for a test of power?
Can He speak the entire universe into existence in 6 days?
(yes)
Can He walk out of His grave three days after He is executed?
(yes)
Can He kill 185,000 soldiers in the blind of an eye?
(yes)
Can He drown the entire world?
(yes)
Need I go on?
>>1311889
> he is 3 but 1
I guess Nescafe violates laws of logic too, comrade Fedora?
>>1311794
Maximal good thesis is neato. Check it out
>>1311910
Creating rock that you can't lift requires power. Go into the mountains or mines and try to make one.
>>1311910
Well if you could actually address the philosophical issue rather than listing things that never happened and have no relevance that would be an excellent start.
You don't need omnipotence to do any of those things, in fact having to take 6 days to make a Universe and then needing a rest is a good indication you're not omnipotent.
>>1311911
C'mon senpai
>>1311910
> Need I go on?
Yes. You listed what? Four things? While claiming that God can do fucking anything? It is like saying that you are omniscient because you know a thing or a two. Why should we believe such claims?
>>1311794
>Judeo-christfags have never been able to resolve this dilemma kek
>dilemma
lol your new is showing summerfag, God could create a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it ONE MOMENT and yet be able to lift it perfectly well ANOTHER MOMENT.
You're not thinking with the fourth dimension (time) or adding it to the theoretical problem, like the simpleton you are.
Fucking apply yourself before you wreck yourself.
>>1311911
You know that's Arianism, right? Now you'll try to give me the water-steam-ice metaphor, but that's Modalism and heretical too.
>Christians unwittingly committing century-old heresies
>yet fedoras are the ones who misunderstand judeo-christian dogma
K...find me a glass of H2O that is liquid, steam and ice simultaneously, in the same place. Then we'll talk about the logic of the trinity.
>>1311935
> You're not thinking with the fourth dimension
How about doing both things at once?
Too hard for divine omnipotent being?
>>1311945
What about you, you from the past and you from the future time-traveling metaphor?
>>1311948
>both things at once?
Time is an illusion friend, everything ''is'' and ''isn't'' at once.
>>1311945
> H2O that is liquid, steam and ice simultaneously
What is triple point?
If man was created in the image of God, then yes. God does indeed have free will.
>>1311794
>r/atheism spook retard detected
>>1311817
(if I understand what you're asking)
If it's good, of course.
If it's bad, who are we to say he would want it? Who are we to imply that he's as blind as we are? I mean we're talking about God. I'm sure he knows a rotten piece from a good piece.
>>1311952
The same logic doesn't apply, because an individual's ego is a process arising from physical states. That's like taking a snapshot of a man running, then taking another of the man standing, then asking me where the "running" went.
>>1311961
It's not liquid, steam, and ice simultaneously, it's none of them in the process of almost becoming one of them. When the conditions change the states become distinct, and separate, which is absolutely heretical.
>>1311915
God made everything in the universe by speaking it into existence.
Every mountain there is.
That's not the question. The (insipid) question is "Can God God make X but not be able to pick up X?"
It's the condition that makes what God can do, making rocks ex nihilo, into a paradox of not being able to move that which He made; that cannot happen no matter how much power is plugged into the equation.
It's a stupid question.
>>1311921
Do it then. We'll judge you by the universe you create in 6 days.
>>1311933
Because you would desire to cease being a fool and reconcile with your maker while you yet can.
>>1311974
And now you are touching on one of the many issues that show God could not have free will.
If God is perfectly good, how can he make any decision that is not perfect and good?
>>1311945
One God manifested Himself as three persons; relational within Himself, and desiring to have a relationship with us.
It's really not complicated.
Father is God.
Son is God.
Spirit is God.
There is One God.
Because God has more dimensions than you, and more than you can perceive, you are a Flatlander insisting that my cube only looks like a series of six squares to you, even though I know full well it is one cube.
>>1311961
#rekt
>>1311989
/thread
A rock would need to infinitely large to defeat an unlimited amount of lifting power.
Asking this question is the same as asking if God can Sin. It is a contradiction. God cannot make a contradiction as He is perfect and is never wrong.
>>1311976
You're a disingenuous idiot. You asked the man to show you a triple point and he did.
Liar.
>>1311996
Exactly. I can give you a laundry list of things God cannot do.
And none of them are for a lack of power.
>>1311983
I'm not claiming to omnipotent.
If you can't grasp that a literal account of the creation story in Genesis is not compatible with an omnipotent God then you're lagging behind theologians from almost two millenia ago and if your only response is "you do it" then you are just a very silly person.
>>1311982
> It's a stupid question
How it is stupid? People can made a things that they can't move. See the Great Pyramids. What here is so illogical for you?! You can't imply that God somehow lacking and can't do what human perfectly able to do.
>>1311989
>3 things that are god
>but there is one god
This cannot be understood logically. You can say he operates in some higher level of reality or whatever but by our logic, it's a contradiction.
Which is why I made the initial point. God doesn't adhere to our laws of logic, so in whatever mystical way he's able to create a rock so heavy he can't lift, but he can lift it.
>>1312017
>How is it stupid.
Because you are.
The question, could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it? The quick answer is "No." But the explanation is far more important to understand than the answer.
This question is based on a popular misunderstanding about the definitions of words like "almighty" or "omnipotent." These terms do not mean that God can do anything. Rather, they describe the amount of God's power. Power is the ability to effect change - to make something happen. God (being unlimited) has unlimited power, and the Bible affirms this (Job 11:7-11, 37:23; 2 Corinthians 6:18; Revelation 4:8; etc.). Therefore, God can do whatever is possible to be done. God cannot, however, do that which is actually impossible. This is because true impossibility is not based on the amount of power one has, it is based on what is really possible. The truly impossible is not made possible by adding more power. Therefore, unless context indicates otherwise (e.g. Matthew 19:26 where man's ability is being shown in contrast to God's), impossibility means the same thing whether or not God is involved.
So, the first part of the question is based on a false idea - that God being almighty means that He can do anything. In fact, the Bible itself lists things God cannot do - like lie or deny Himself (Hebrews 6:18; 2 Timothy 2:13; Titus 1:2). The reason He cannot do these things is because of His nature and the nature of reality itself. God cannot do what is not actually possible to be done, like creating a two-sided triangle, or a married bachelor. Just because words can be strung together this way does not make the impossible possible - these things are contradictions, they are truly impossible in reality.
>>1311986
God doesn't make me, I was born from my parents.
>>1311997
Excuse me? I'M disingenuous??? I'm not the one making logical backflips with extradimensional reasoning here, buddy. Water that hasn't been compressed sufficiently isn't solid, if it hasn't been heated sufficiently it isn't vapor. It's not solid-vapor-liquid, it's H2O with potential to be each of the three, separately, based on environmental conditions. That's Modalism.
The Mystery of the Trinity maintains that phase changes are not necessary for the Father, Son, and Spirit to be God, because they're the same and never different based on mode. It's a paradox, and utter nonsense. If by papist logic the paradox of the trinity is coherent, the paradox of a rock bigger than God must be, too, and as both are nonsense they both ought to be thrown out altogether.
>>1311987
He can, but he doesn't want to.
>>1311794
Well,he created the earth,didn't he?
>>1311996
> It is a contradiction
That means that God can do only what he is able to do... which isn't different from us humans. Isn't it? Therefore his power is limited by a logic where all of the contradictions could exist.
>>1312022
Who would not exist without God. If we go all the way down the chain of causality, at the root we find God. You wouldn't exist without God. Nothing would exist without God.
>>1312001
> laundry list
Isn't enough to claim that God can do anything. What if you miss something that God just can't accomplish no matter what?
>>1311987
I disagree, because the choice exists for Him, he just knows the outcome of said choice. In the bible he's described as light. Light shines on anything, so it may be seen. If what's seen in its entirety is not good...why would the creator of good choose it?
So the option to choose freely exists.
>If God is perfectly good, how can he make any decision that is not perfect and good?
That's the point though, he can't.
And if this leads to a discussion about His punishment, you have to recognize the definition of discipline.
Also if you are going to add the variable of the human in relation to human's creator, which in this context is God, human obviously knows less. Human struggles with control of himself. And struggles with the temptation to harm others like himself.
So God's discipline and punishment, or what you would might want to call "not good"...would it not be justified for something as flawed and short sighted as a "human."
I just realize how I sound like a total ass using the word "human" like this lol, but I'm trying to show the objective perspective because I know I'm flawed. I'm not God, I'm not arrogant enough to claim that I somehow have the higher perspective on this very topic of discussion. Especially when knowing how mankind struggles with simple disciplines, which contribute to my very limited understanding of what it would truly take to be a successful "creator."
>>1312037
There are things He cannot do. I explained this already. Read my post.
>>1312026
We've already dealt with that.
>>1312010
What a completely insane belief.
Speaking a universe into existence is not evidence of omnipotence.
How, exactly?
And why do you think God has to do things the way you tell Him to, again?
>>1312019
There is one threefold God.
This is not as complicated as you make it out to be.
You're a monkey trying to add 1 god plus 1 god plus 1 god and getting 3 gods.
>>1312024
Go to /sci/, come back when you learn what a triple point is.
>>1312037
I don't miss anything by trusting in God.
What you're going to miss by not trusting in God.....welp.
>>1312051
>threefold
Elaborate. 3 Parts? 3 Modes? :^)
If all you've got is that it makes sense but it can't be understood with human reasoning, then we agree.
>>1312021
> God can do whatever is possible to be done
It isn't different from humans, did I omnipotent too because I can do anything that is possible for me, but otherwise can't do a shit? God can create the world, but fails at creation of heavy stones. I can't
create a world, but heavy stone is possible for me. Don't forget, that creating the stones that couldn't be lift by creator is a perfectly possible thing to do for many of us. It isn't some absurd shit like circle without a radius that just can't exist.
>>1312035
> Who would not exist without God.
Some other force would create them. No big deal.
>>1312046
>Speaking a universe into existence is not evidence of omnipotence.
An omnipotent being would have done it in an instant.
>>1312064
Three persons.
>>1312062
You don't need to believe that someone is all-powerful to trust him.
>>1312035
Aquinas pls go.
The concept of "god" is used in his cosmological argument as a logical self-referential point (paradox), and if you're going to use paradoxes anyway you may as well go with the simplest explanation and cut through all the bullshit.
>God existed infinitely, and has always existed.
>"Ok."
>God sprung into being from nothing and created everything from nothing.
>"So something can come from nothing, or exist infinitely without cause?"
>Yes.
>"If so, why does that particular paradox have to be a God that gets mad if I'm not circumcised? Why couldn't the universe come from nothing, or be self-referential in the same way with fewer needless, dubious complexities?"
>HE ROSE FROM THE GRAVE LALALALA MYSTERIOUS WAYS
>>1312077
A thoughtful one would do it as a guide for how we should live.
Work six days, take off the seventh.
A productive God would do it as an example.
Seed, time and harvest six years in a row, and let the land lay fallow the seventh.
A ruling God would do so as an indication of the things to come.
Six thousand years men try to rule over men, Jesus rules for the seventh.
Saying layers within layers within layers is not giving God near enough credit for the perfection He made.
You judge the creation by the broken, cursed, and dying world you were born on, not the world God made "in the beginning".
>>1312084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
BAD ANALOGY PATRICK
>>1312086
You need to believe that not trusting Him to say what He will do, and then do it, when no power in heaven or earth can stop Him, is madness.
>>1312084
>St. Patrick compared The Trinity to three leaves on a single clover.
Bottom line if you try to lay this out in symbolic logic you get a degenerate equation. It doesn't and can't ever make sense. I'm not saying your god is stupid or doesn't exist, just that he clearly operates beyond the bounds of traditional logic.
>>1312035
> If we go all the way down the chain of causality, at the root we find God
Would it mean that God is responsible for everything and therefore sinners shouldn't suffering in hell because God is a first cause of every sin.
>>1311794
I am not religious, but I don't see how these kinds of proofs are a disproof of a god. An omnipotent god principally works outside the realms of logic. He invented logic.
>>1312103
Why are you applying human qualities to God?
He's not some bloke down the pub.
>>1312113
Everyone in hell is there for Unbelief.
All of their sins against God were forgiven at the cross.
>>1312123
What I told you is revealed in the bible to the ones who love God, and are called according to His purposes.
He is not like us.
We are made in His image.
>>1312109
> no power in heaven or earth can stop Him
Yes, but there can exist power from outside world that is known to God that just couldn't be stopped by him. Read the anon here. >>1312021
If there exist some powerful force beyond all of the known world that would be impossible to oppose... God is fucked, because oppose such power would be a contradiction.
>>1312104
We can't understand it anyway. . .
>>1312066
ANYTHING THAT IS POSSIBLE.
Can you fly? Can you create something from nothing? Can you read minds? Gosh, sure is summer in here.
>>1312074
>The existence of one all powerful force is hard enough for people to come to grips with.
>Let me just add more to try and refute your point because I do not possess the intellectual capacity to do it genuinely.
Go back.
>>1312093
>God existed infinitely
>God sprung up into existence at some point
Go away.
>>1312134
You daft fuck.
We are saying God cannot sin.
Not that there exists some SuperGod who is going to kill God and save you wicked faggots from what you deserve; an eternity on fire.
>>1312129
Interesting assertions.
They aren't any closer to showing that an omnipotent God is a bit pooped and needs a rest after making just one universe.
>>1312103
The problem here is that. Why even trying to be a guide if you can literally implant necessary things into a people brains... Of course, he could be just like you said, messing with everything for strange reason. But you can never be sure. Everyone can claim that they are all-powerful, but doesn't really trying and we can never know if this is a lie, kind of genuine statement, pure insanity or everything at once.
>>1312126
God is also a first cause of unbelief.
>>1312159
The bible did not say God was tired.
It said He rested on the seventh, His work being done.
I told you that He rested on the seventh as a nod to us that we need to rest on the seventh.
Apparently everything went an infinite distance over your monkey brained head.
>>1312162
You buy a Real doll and every time you press her left thumb she says "I love you!".
How many times would you press her left thumb?
How many times until you realized how empty and hollow it was?
(Any more times than "zero" is pathetic)
>>1312166
Satan is.
"Did God really say that? No....."
You can follow your spiritual father to hell if you choose; I'm following my spiritual father to heaven.
Kicker is that I'm no better a person than you are.
Maybe worse!
>>1312146
> Can you fly?
What is airplanes?
> Can you create something from nothing?
Logically impossible.
> Can you read minds?
Logically impossible.
>>1312146
> The existence of one all powerful force is hard enough for people to come to grips with.
There is no rule that there exist only one force. If there is one could be a second or a third, maybe your list is shared effort, that you attribute to one God for some bizarre reason.
>>1312167
>Apparently everything went an infinite distance over your monkey brained head.
There's no need to get quite so upset that a God needing six days to make a universe then taking a snooze is obviously incompatible with an omnipotent God.
>>1312174
> Satan is.
Created by God and therefore responsibility is on him. Should create him not to be a dick, I believe.
>>1311794
God's logic is not man's logic. Of course, he could do it in a way that would fit the criterias, how he would do that is mystery.
>it's an "anon interprets Genesis as literal truth and not an appendix to the Enuma Elish" episode
>>1312199
> is mystery
With clear solution of God non-existence.
>>1312223
> Fly on your own without invention to help you.
Impossible for human, like for God impossible to create a stone that he can't wield.
>>1311794
God can defy every notion we have of cosmic order and logic and do both but can't keep you from sucking cock
>>1312223
> There only needs to be one.
Gods are beyond you so called needs.
>>1312237
> being that triggered by 1000 years old question
Christians are truly original SJW.
>>1312182
I do not celebrate Ishtar, no. I rail against it. I worship no fertility goddess, no "queen of heaven", no woman at all.
Resurrection Day is Nisan 17.
>>1312196
Heresy is an abomination, and you are a heretic.
You'll find God takes heresy even worse than I do.
>>1312198
You had a chance to not be a dick too.
You blew it, too.
>>1312246
Said the atheist libcuck
>>1312198
No, Lucifer was created by God. God is not responsible for the actions Lucifer took any more than you are responsible for my actions.
>>1312042
>That's the point though, he can't.
I meant that as in, God can't make a decision that is 'not' good.
>>1312271
How troubling for me, that some random, anon on the internet claims to be God himself and speak on his behalf. I guess that's me fucked.
>>1312286
I do claim to speak for God Himself, because I am His adopted son, and know His word.
You are well and truly fucked.
Unless you repent, and get saved, like the rest of us who are no longer well and truly fucked.
>>1312308
And thus ends up the final argument of every American protestant that doesn't mind blaspheming God.
>>1312324
It's not blasphemy. God cannot act in contradiction to His own justice. The time has passed where those who lived righteously will be lead out of Hell by Christ. Since the death of Christ, almost all people of heard of the Bible and its message of redemption. Many choose to ignore it, pass it off as non-sense, etc. We know what happens to those who deny the Lord and Christ. The choice was yours, God doesn't send you to Hell, you send yourself. But it is not too late. You can still be saved.
>>1312346
>it's not blasphemy to claim to be God
Oh. okay!
>>1312277
> God is not responsible
Then he isn't responsible for a parents decision to create me. Why he is my creator again? Only two humans and maybe Jesus was created by God.
>>1312276
> the original cucks being in position to use cuck as insult
>>1312324
I mind very much people blaspheming God.
And nowhere near as much as God minds very much people blaspheming Him.
>>1312308
I can guarantee that he isn't lying. I spoke with the God himself too, we know about who is real deal.
>>1312360
Who claimed to be God?
>>1312377
Literally everything you need to live has been given to you by God, including air.
And a planet.
And water.
And an infinite number of things that are so finely tuned that to not know there is a God is so foolish that God says you are "without excuse".
The cosmological constant is so finely tuned that if it changed 1 part in 10^120 parts, life could not exist.
Keep thinking this universe created itself, and you're going to find that the Creator has very strong opinions on the matter.
>>1312386
Nobody who knows God thinks God can lie.
You lie because your spiritual father is the father of lies; he invented lies and cannot stop lying. Hence, you lie.
>>1312389
Anyone in this thread that claims to know the intricacies of His mind and speak on his behalf. Even the prophets don't claim that so you shouldn't either.
If your "arguments" have degenerated to the level of "I speak on behalf of God" as your's did a long time ago then you are being blasphemous and arrogant.
>>1312274
> Yes, you. Not Him.
Him? Well, his opinion is only one of opinions of a many Gods who decided that other Gods actually needed for a proper balance of power.
He would have to be real to have free will
>>1312396
If you give you dog a food that doesn't mean that you created your dog. Same reasoning works for that case.
>>1312404
According to who? You again? God can never be wrong, nothing God thinks is an opinion.
>>1312403
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
>>1312398
> Nobody who knows God thinks God can lie.
I guarantee for who doesn't know God. I can do it because I know God himself.
>>1312403
You're an idiot.
John 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.
>>1312413
If you created the first two canine kinds out of nothing, then yes, you made that dog.
And you made that dog food.
And you put the dog and the food and the person on a planet that sustains life.
The life you gave to all living things.
Pull your head out of your ass. You're going to meet God. You can meet Him as Daddy, or you can meet Him as Enemy.
Your call.
>>1312405
> Anon answered your question.
His answer makes no sense. God doesn't created me, yeas he created food and some stuff. But you should remember that creating me wasn't the God choice, but choice of my parents.
>>1311794
God can do all things that are possible. POSSIBLE. Unlifitable rocks are not possible. Why would God lift a rock anyway?
>>1312427
I should say no one knows how God IS working on people/individuals. Every one is different.
>>1312416
> According to who? You again?
According to other Gods who can never be wrong. I got majority on right Gods on my side. You have only one. Thought luck, buddy.
>>1312427
Another idiot is heard from.
Job was 4000 years ago.
The New Covenant was less than 2000 years ago.
Using Job to disprove the relationship between Man and God in the New Covenant is dumber than a bag of rocks.
>>1312425
>>1312436
And your parents to theirs, and theirs to theirs, and a hundred generations back to theirs, and twenty generations back to theirs, Adam and Eve, whom God made with His hands.
No God making Adam and Eve with His hands, no you.
>>1311758
according to Muslim theologians, he doesnt
>>1312435
> You can meet Him as Daddy, or you can meet Him as Enemy.
God is my Friend, not my Father. Anyway, there is need to be fair for who done what. God done a many things, but people done some of them too. They made all other people for example.
>>1312459
If God is not your father, your father is satan and God is not your friend.
>>1312458
They also say that angels do not have free will, since Mohammad talked to an angel.
If angels had free will (and they do), that angel could have lied about who he was (he did) and what the message really was (death).
To cover for the obvious existence of evil spirits and demons, "djinn" were fabricated out of whole cloth.
Djinn are just fallen angels.
>>1312443
> Unliftiable rocks are not possible.
It isn't about creating unliftiable rock that would deny laws of basic mechanics. It is about creating the rock that creator of orkc himself couldn't lift. That perfectly possible and pretty logical.
>>1312416
>>1312425
You'll have to come up with better reasons for that than blaspheming.
Imagine dipping the tip of your penis into boiling water and then imagine that sensation over your whole body, behind your eyes, under your foreskin, in your armpits, your anus, your bowels, the roof of your mouth. Imagine that is what happens for billions of years and then try and imagine an eternity of pain.
That is what you will get for blaspheming The Lord.
>>1312456
Then he made all of sins too if you going by that causal chain is prove that God made something. Therefore people shouldn't be punished. Not even for the lack of faith or any other crime.
>>1312447
There is only one God and His name is the Lord. If you wish to worship false idols, you are welcome to, that is your choice. Just don't complain when you receive your punishment.
>>1312452
>Another idiot is heard from
Seriously? C'mon man...
Are you saying Job's friends, and their attempts to accuse Job of wrong doing is advised to do in the New Covenant? Running around calling people "fucked" as Job's friends were implying about Job?
Not only that, but the whole scripture is applicable today. Laws changed, but not the lessons. So just calm down, a lot of people desperately want to know God and don't even know it's Him they're looking for.
>>1312480
The only blasphemy is see being uttered is coming from you.
>>1312464
Do you heard about another virgin birth to say that God is my father anon? Clearly such huge miracle would be noticed in not time.
>>1312486
What? There are thousands of Gods. They are all powerful and doing good in perfect Harmony. Just accept that fact. Your Lord can't save you from all their rage if you would continue to shit on hundred beings that as powerful as him. Numbers aren't on your side here and only madman wouldn't see this.
>>1311935
But could he create a rock he couldn't lift at any moment? That's the question.
>>1312477
Are you say God would use his own physical strength to lift the rock? If you consider God to be a man with a body I think he should be able make a rock too heavy to lift. But I don't see how that would diminish his power to make and unmake it. Besides Angels in the bible have demonstrated superhuman strength before. It would seem that spiritual energy can make up for a lack of physical strength. That may render the weight of the rock irrelevant.
>>1312491
Says the heretic.
Have you ever heard of Pascal's Wager?
Hint: it only applies to the Catholic Church.
>>1312503
No, not thousands. One. There is only one Lord.
>>1312522
Go ahead and explain how I am a heretic. I will wait.
>>1311758
Free will implies choice, choice as we know it can not exist in a reality devoid of time.
This is an incomplete question as it presupposes a few things which do not apply.
>>1311794
The Wikipedia article on this paradox already has several good answers to it. I like the first one the most.
>>1312026
And he doesn't want to because his omnibenevolent nature prevents him from doing so.
Meaning his is subject to his own omnibenevolence. He can't override it.
>>1312523
Congratulations, your war god tricked you so hard you forgot about the rest of his former pantheon. Just as keikaku.
>>1312581
>omnibenevolent
Spotted the atheist.
>>1312582
One God. In war or in peace, on sunny days and in the rain, on the mountains and in the valleys.
One God.
Fuck your canaanite trash demon gods.
>>1312591
You are very ignorant of your own god's past. Yahweh didn't make this earth. He is no different than any other war god. His big performance was to kill off his own pantheon, even his own wife, for power. He's got a bloodthirst to rival Quetzalcoatl and Ares. Hes even playing you saps against each other. Who do you think runs Islam? You're its little soldier men, your purpose to fight his play wars and sate his appetite. War gods: not even once.
>>1312614
non god believer here but...
Everything = God.
You are part of everything. You feel like you have free will?
>>1311758
Sure. And he loves to fuck with you. Heh heh heh.
>>1312638
Don't waste your bandwidth. Open a book about the history of the Jewish people. Stop posting memes from /pol/. FYI, Lucifer doesn't desire blood. That's Yahweh. Lucifer just hates his guts because Lucy is a god of pride and individualism. Makes perfect sense he would conflict with Yahweh/Allah. You can see it in how much he followers of both fear Lucifer and hate him. They don't want to think for themselves. They want bloody war dad to tell them what to do, how to live, and who to slaughter. And pretty soon your shitty god is going to throw our world into another war.
>>1312530
Well, for a start you have sex with goats. Mohammad.
>>1312614
What part of fuck your canaanite trash demon gods was unclear?
Ba'al ran the canaanites.
Ba'al runs the muslims.
>>1312810
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html
>>1312655
Fuck you. Allah is Ba'al. The Arabs have always worshiped Ba'al.
>>1312849
Are you drunk again, Wayne?
>>1312839
Dever is an idiot. When the Jews stopped worshiping YHWH, and worshiped foreign gods, they worshiped the shit trash tier demon gods of the canaanites.
>>1312856
How can you even tell which god you're praying to?
>>1312856
>Dever is an idiot.
Okey dokey.
Let me know when you are a renowned archaeologist and not an angry young man throwing around random insults on a Thailand pottery image site.
>>1312655
topkek, okay dude. Have fun suffering because you want to suck Satan's cock.
>>1312906
I will. :-)
>>1312913
You won't.
>>1312881
Anyone who says the Jews worshiped Asheroth as their main god is so ignorant of the bible as to be a drooling idiot.
>>1312937
We'll see.
>>1312880
There's only one God, and only one God hears prayers.
And not His mommy, either.
>>1312913
Oh, what you would give on that day to come back to this and repent.
>>1312950
Anyone who thinks the bible accurately reflects history is a bit of a slow witted fellow.
>>1312959
I'll take my chances.
Good luck with that Yahweh.
Protip: he's already mad at you if you ever did any gardening on Saturday.
>>1312956
Well, here is you mistake. There are thousands of Gods and they all can hear your prayers.
>>1312237
>but can't keep you from sucking cock
It's settled then, God is not omnipotent
>>1311961
A substance can't exist in more than one phase at a time. At the triple point what you see is a random and constant transformation between phases.
It's no different to any other state of a substance except the speed at which a phase change occurs.
>>1311976
>it's none of them in the process of almost becoming one of them.
It's not none of them, it's one of them and it instantaneously changes to another.
>>1312056
Not even that guy but fuck off with your misinformation for the sake of winning religious arguments. You don't know what a triple point is.
>>1311974
Is something good because God wills it? Or does God will things because they are good?
If the former, can't any action be arbitrarily justified by God? If so, can God really be invoked for a reliable moral system?
If the latter, doesn't this mean that "good" is a system that God is adhering to? If he can be governed by a system, can he still omnipotent?
>>1312396
>The cosmological constant is so finely tuned that if it changed 1 part in 10^120 parts, life could not exist.
>finely tuned
How do you measure how tuned the universe is? Compared to what? An imaginary universe where the universal constant isn't the same? Why stop there? Why not compare our universe to one where people both have free will and are incapable of evil if we're just making shit up? Why did God make our universe so crummy compared to that?
>>1311794
>all powerful, all knowing deity
>thinks mortal humans can understand it's powers/knowledge
>>1311794
I don't get how this proves anything. If God makes the rock too heavy for even himself, that could be taken as proof of his all-power. It's just nonsensical. If God can't do it, it's for that reason: it's nonsensical.
These sorts of things are just games. People who put it forward clearly want to have it both ways and the people who counter it can do the same thing.
>>1311935
Exactly! I mean god is the father, the son and the holy spirit all at the same time so yeah he could be lifting it and not be lifting it at the same time
>>1311758
There is no way we will come out of asking this question with a meaningful or decisive answer, so you should really ask yourself, why does it matter?
>>1311794
heres the very simple solution to this "dilemma"
if there is no rock god cant lift, thats not a limit
imagine on a list of gods attributes you read "there is nothing god cannot lift"
that sounds pretty all powerful to me
