>According to the Russian historian Kluchevsky, the rise of Moscow under Ivan I Kalita was determined by three factors. The first one was that the Moscow principality was situated in the middle of other Russian principalities; thus, it was protected from any invasions from the East and from the West. Compared to its neighbors, Ryazan principality and Tver principality, Moscow was less often devastated.
>Ivan Kalita intentionally pursued the policy of relocation of people to his principality by an invitation of people from other places and by purchase of Russian people captured by Mongols during their raids.
>Ivan made Moscow very wealthy by maintaining his loyalty to the Horde
The eternal slave, literally mongol serfs established in the 14th century by a viking descendent
>>1296595
>Try monarchy
>Get despotism
>Try western absolute monarchy
>Get despotism
>Try constitutional monarchy
>Get despotism
>Try communism
>Get despotism
>Try liberal capitalism
>Get despotism.
can't make this shit up
It wasn't quite like other national leaders would be any more honorable really.
>>1296730
It's really confirmed his brother didn't die of natural reasons?
>>1296677
What's wrong with Gustaf Vasa? He's a national hero in Sweden.
>>1296734
You can never confirm things so long ago, but he did start bleeding out of his nose and mouth consistent with internal organ failure, very rarely natural at such a young age
>>1296752
Yeah, like Stalin and Ivan the terrible are national heroes in russia and Henry VII is a hero in England.
he became a king by breaking his promises to the German princes that sponsored his war against Denmark and then running his own people over, beating Rebellions similar as those who brought him to power in the first place.
The conversion to Protestantism was forced, many wishing to stay Catholic.
>>1296768
Ivan may have been batshit insane but he laid the groundworks for the entire Russian Empire. Give the guy some credit.
>>1296770
I am not taking any credit away from them, just calling them dishonorable cunts.
>>1296785
Fair enough. Though I think if every ruler had been an honourable and nice person we'd never have seen great empires rise.
>>1296806
Can't really see what that would be so bad with that myself.
>>1296624
>Tries fighting Darius I of Persia
>Attacks but retreats back to Russia
>Darius suffers large casualties
>Tries fighting Napoleon Bonaparte
>Attacks but retreats back to Russia
>Napoleon suffers large casualties
>Tries fighting Adolf Hitler
>Attacks but retreats back to Russia
>Hitler suffers large casualties
Can't make this shit up either. Russians and early Russians aka Scythians were cowardly, faggoty fighters.
It seems people who understand Eastern Europe are able to conquer them, like the Mongols and Poland. No Western power like the ones in Western Europe and Southwest Asia have ever been able to successfully invade Russia due to their cowardly hit and run tactics.
>>1296831
>Stalin attacks Hitler
>>1296842
Usually in every case scenario the defending power is almost always the people in Russia. Sorry if I didn't make it seem like that in my post.
But uh, yeah, you basically have no argument now that I knew what I was posting.
>>1296855
Only that, what's the point of approaching an enemy head on when you know they will only kill themselves through attrition and burn down a few unimportant parts of the countryside?
>>1296831
>early Russians aka Scythians
Is this real life?
>>1296864
Well, I do apologize that I didn't add the fact that adversaries attacking Russia were repulsed and went back home after an unsuccessful attempt to invade the land.
But you still have no argument.
>>1296872
They can be called early Russians, they are the ancestors of most modern day Russians, Ukrainians, and Georgians.
>>1296882
>The adversaries were successfully repulsed due to their strategy
No idea what I am even debating any more.
And Stalin didn't try to escape back to the hinder lands of Russia, his strategy was actually to push all units up against the front and beat them off at start.
Which failed because of quite obvious reasons.
>>1296900
Still they were shitty fighters.
>>1296916
So were many other peoples of Europe, and the Russians actually had some wast land to seek cover behind.
Not jsut as good as the Brits though, who had the Brittish channel.
>>1296831
>Tries fighting Darius I of Persia
huh?
>>1296921
>so were many other peoples of Europe
Give me examples on who sucked worse or sucked equally to the Russians.
I don't think there is any European nation that sucks worse than Russia.
>>1296930
>I don't think there is any European nation that sucks worse than Russia.
serbs
>>1296930
Eh, hm, Austria, Denmark, a few German princedoms, the Serbs, a few others I can't come up with right now.
Probably the Finns as well.
As in talking historically, not necessarily now or post 1900.
>>1296928
A people named the Scythians, who inhabited Russia at the time, fought Darius I of Persia.
>>1296933
>Serbs
Not really, they were pretty good during WW1.
>Austria
No
>Denmark
Nope
>German princedoms
Nah
>The Finns
Hell no
>>1296885
>they are the ancestors of most modern day Russians, Ukrainians, and Georgians
Except they are not
>>1296956
Except they are.
Give me proofs or you're fucking wrong, bitch.
>>1296951
>Serbs
They got completelly btfo by the Ottomans even in battles where they weren't in infernior numbers.
>Austria
Never really manged to win a war, had to use mercenaries for everything.
>Denmark
Began losing hard after the war against Gustafvous Wasa, lost almost every war on themselves against Sweden and got completely devastated in the Thirty years war where their entrance instantly was followed by the Emperor occupying all of Jylland.
>The finns
Just because you like reading about memes about the winter war that didn't stop them from being the complete bitch of Novgorod and Sweden during the medieval age and a by propaganda vastly overrated group of soldiers during the thirty years war.
>>1296951
serbs are worse due the fact they're massive russiaboos
the only thing worse than russians is russiaboos
Also, we Got Arabs and Italians wjp bptj sicls at war-
>>1296979
who both suck at*
>>1296967
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
>The Scythians, also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sacae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were a large group of Iranian Eurasian nomads
>iranian
>>1296968
Fine, you win.
But I'll come back with a well thought out paragraph that nobody can refute on this board.
You mark my words, Anon.
>>1296624
Russia physically cannot be anything but an autocracy. It's one of the wonders of the universe.
>>1296624
It's actually pretty sad
Now because I am an autist I am gonna go on a little bit more and claim the Turks really suck at war whenever they can't zerg rush their foes.
I would actually claim that different cultures do different well in war during various eras, pretty sure the Russians did pretty well under Novgorod when fighting the Teuronic knights and Swedes-
>>1296983
NO NO NO, YOU'RE WRONG
"The Scythian Gene
Throughout history, the wandering pastoral tribes of the Russian Steppes have descended on the seats of civilization in Europe and the Middle East. They have been called variously Scythians, Thracians, Cimmerians (and Kurgan Culture), Sarmatians, Cumans, Alans, Huns, Tatars, Turks, Slavs, Bulgars and Goths. In Saratov on the Lower Volga River in >>Russia<<, up to 1 in between 3 and 4 people possess this distinctive marker. In Slovenia, at the crossroads of Barbarian incursions into the Roman Empire, as many as 22% of the inhabitants carry it. It is also notable in Ashkenazi Jews, certain Mongols and some Turks. Minimal frequencies occur, on the other hand, in Asians like the Chinese or Indians. One minor branch is found in Malaysia and Australian Aboriginals, pointing to the relatedness of all humans. Another expansion centered on Egypt and became prominent among Berbers. It ran in the pharaohs—perhaps a vestige of the conquest of Egypt by a horse-bound warrior culture around 3000 BCE. This same timeframe corresponds with a general epoch in world history marking a widespread switch from female-centered societies and the Goddess religion to patriarchy and a male pantheon. Between 2 and 5 percent of Europeans on average possess this marker, depending on how far east their main ancestry originates."
FUCK YOU, THEY'RE NOT JUST IRANIAN. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>1296872
It's not too far-off. While the Russian people are linguistically Slavic, the shift wasn't a full population transplant. Under Slavic rule, Scythian nomads adopted Slavic languages and religion.
>>1297006
http://dnaconsultants.com/scythian-gene
>>1296998
Even the turks did well initially against the Byzantines and orient. Russians got gifted a large kingdom without any fighting and even then did pretty bad against the swedes despite large alliances on top of their already large manpower advantage to them
Why do Jews hate Russia so much?
I understand, your grandparents suffered through pogroms in the XIXth century, but then you became the ruling class in the Soviet Union and sent millions of Russians to their deaths. You lost power later, but regained it in the 1990s and looted Russia again sending it's people to poverty.
It's enough, let bygones be bygones, stop agitating for U.S. war against Russia, stop parading Russophobic memes, your grandparents were already avenged by Trotsky, Yagoda and Khodorovsky.
>>1297017
Yeah, then the Ottomans did quite badly against the Russians.
And the Russians didn't get anything for free, they had to fend off both Mongols, Poles and Swedes.
And everyone in that war did pretty bad, tje Danes surrendered after a single day of fighting and later got torn a new asshole when trying to invade the sparsely defended Scania.
Russians literally couldn't beat a bunch of chukchis.
>The Chukchi were generally ignored for the next 50 years because they were warlike and had few furs. Fighting flared up around 1700 when the Russians began operating in the Kamchatka Peninsula and needed to protect their communications from the Chukchi and Koryak. The first attempt to conquer them was made in 1701. Other expeditions were sent out in 1708, 1709 and 1711 with considerable bloodshed but little success. War was renewed in 1729, when the Chukchi defeated an expedition from Okhotsk and killed its commander. Command passed to Major Dmitry Pavlutsky, who adopted very destructive tactics, burning, killing, driving off reindeer, and capturing women and children.[8] In 1742, the government at Saint Petersburg ordered another war in which the Chukchi and Koryak were to be "totally extirpated". The war (1744–7) was conducted with similar brutality and ended when Pavlutsky was killed in March 1747.[8] It is said that the Chukchi kept his head as a trophy for a number of years. The Russians waged war again in the 1750s.
>>1297021
>russophobic
Lmoa
>>1297021
The real question is why cant slavs actually accept that they are the masters of their own fate and instead every time they fail they start blaming everyone else for their own failures.
>>1297043
It's just a coincidence that almost everyone involved in the Bolshevik Revolution and everyone involved in the privatization scheme of the 1990s were Jews, right?
No one here is blaming Brezhnev stagnation on Jews. But certain events are obvious that wouldn't have happened the way they did without Jewish intervention.
>>1297027
>they had to fend off both Mongols, Poles and Swedes
>mfw literal 2chan memes ivans actually believe
You were allied against swedes with poles during the deluge, then you needed two northern wars to take finland with 20 times the population between allies. Muscovy was gifted all of the ukraine. Russia was created by merchants buying principalities and allies, not whatever neo-fascit blood and iron shit they teach in school
>>1296831
There's no such thing as cowardly tactics, just winning and losing.
are we seeing a new meme where people rather than hating at Germany hates at Russia?
>>1297058
They were only allied with Poland during parts of it though, and also allied with Sweden during a part of it then at war with both.
And i am not a Russian, the fact you think this defense of one culture without attacking another one shows quite well how insecure you are.
>>1297060
Pretty sure this board is like /int/ where based on the season /his/ hates some country.
>>1297059
This.
People here think war is some sort of video game.
>>1297060
It's the same people hating both.
>>1297059
By that logic, you're telling me the peoples of Russia won by scorched earth policy.
In war, everybody loses something, ultimately there is a winner, but at what cost of a loss?
>>1297068
I said it was 2chan meme with that exact phrasing, shit only a russian could be so bad at english. Also personally attacking me instead of my arguments, very russian
>>1297068
Also, they aren't the only country who got gifted things. Swedens conquest of Finland consisted of conquering weak pagan tribes while allied with the strong teutonic knights and got one of Europe's richest cities, Tallin, for free.
>>1297083
You were the one who started by saying i were brainwashed into thinking like this, but sure
>>1297074
War can be a vidya game. Just look at the movie War Games.
>>1297086
Not an argument, I've already empirically proven you are russian
>>1297091
Sure and i have emperically proven you are very insecure.
>>1297084
Russia was also gifted gunpowder age weaponry against horse niggers but still had moscow sacked by them
>>1297091
>>1297093
Boys, boys..
You're both huge faggots.
>>1297097
What sack are you talking about?
The Russians had effective gunpowder weapons in 1382?
>>1297101
I never posted smug animegirls so I am still better than him.
>>1297106
>The Crimean army devastated unprotected towns and villages around Moscow, and then set fire to suburbs of the capital.[2] Due to a strong wind, the fire quickly expanded. The townspeople, chased by a fire and refugees, rushed to northern gate of capital. At the gate and in the narrow streets, there was a crush, people "went in three lines went on heads one of another, and top pressed those who were under them".[citation needed] The army, having mixed up with refugees, lost order, and general prince Belsky died in a fire.
>Within three hours, Moscow burnt out completely. In one more day, the Crimean army, sated with its pillage, left on the Ryazan road to the steppes. Contemporaries counted up to 80,000 victims of the invasion in 1571,[3] with 150,000 Russian taken as captives.[3] Papal ambassador Possevin testified of the devastation: he counted in 1580 no more than 30,000 inhabitants of Moscow, although in 1520 the Moscow population was about 100,000.
They bows bro, swedes and poles would have beat them
>>1297118
How do you know that?
Poland almost got devestated by the earlier Mongol invaders, and i doubt the Crimean Nomads didn't follow the teach race.
>>1297133
>Almost
They destroyed the entire golden horde army in the 2nd invasion and were never a tributary or vassal, without guns or improved plate smiting techniques. Muscovy was sacked by a tiny peninsula
