Oh shit son 'tis a Russian Civil War thread.
Is anon a white or a red kind of guy?
White Army PROS
>kickassь pre-reformь Russianь language
>anti-communist
>nationalist
CONS
>disorganized as fuck, their only driving ideology is being anti-communist
>retarded nationalism that alienates neighboring republics and causes some of them to join the reds when they could've helped the whites instead
Red Army PROS
>all is equal*
>all is shared*
>join us and let us march into a bright communist future together!**
Red Army CONS
>*not true btw
>**if you don't you're a WA collaborationist and need to be shot by the cheka
white b cause muh white Finns
White if I was a female.
Reds if I was a male.
I'm a communist so I'll go with the red army even if I know the CCCP went to shit.
What's the deal with both sides killing Jews?
>>1286136
If it's hilarious, don't question it anon.
>>1286035
I'd argue not so much nationalism as traditionalim/reactionary.
By which I mean - the Whites were unwilling to collaborate with other nations seeking independence not for reasons of "muh Russians", but rather as they saw those nations as also tearing apart the fabric they were so keen to put back together - that clusterfuck of a tapestry known as the Russian Empire.
Btw - perhaps one of the more amusing chapters of this war is the Western Russian Liberation army, a mix of Germans and Russians, led by the asolute madman Bermondt Avalov.
>>1286191
I think possibly my favourite feature of Bermondt-Avalov is his military career, or lack thereof.
Dude went from conductor (the musical kind) to self-appointed Major General.
>>1286191
Russian nationalism doesn't exist per se, or at least the ethnic part of it doesn't. They don't want to segregate, they want to make everyone be Russian.
>>1286035
Reds all day every day
not even a communist, but the Whites were retarded as fuck
Whites, obviously. Why would anyone, with hindsight, support the Jewish Bolsheviks?
I honestly can't choose between the Reds or the Whites. I just like them both so much.
![1-1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iFHSLtr.jpg "1-1[1].jpg")
>>1286258
They really were. I especially like the propaganda part of that.
OP picture:
>Bunch of text, what the fuck does that mean? Not only you're supposed to show, not tell, but also most Russians were illiterate at the time
>Well-drawn but what's the point? You're to get your message across, not make everyone admire your artistic skills
>The ancient defeat of the serpent motive doesn't get the point across well at all because the allegory is too complex
Here's one of mass-produced Bolshevik cartoons:
>Text is small and the pictures can be understood by an illiterate person as well: Commies should help non-commies
>It's mass-produced in huge numbers
>It's a part of a long series of propaganda cartoons at that
>It's simple and to the point
>>1286270
I definitely don't support communists, of all people, but Russian Whites were a hilarious bunch of disorganized fuckups with no clear vision. They were bound to fail.
![j4zjvt0Nhi0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BaNiDMz.jpg "j4zjvt0Nhi0[1].jpg")
>>1286312
Or look at this one, it's even more direct.
>Your work makes evil capitalists angry
>>1286035
Czech Legion FTW!!!
>>1286350
Yeah, I should've worded that better. Bolshevik propaganda minimized the text as much as possible, knowing that they aimed at people who couldn't read, thus they made everything like a comic book with heavy visual emphasis.
First picture is about "greys" by whom I think they meant indifferent people.
>Greys, we're talking to you from above
>Stop wallowing in bourgeois bog
>Communism is the only salvation
>Here, catch: the only ladder to happiness
Second one is more straightforward.
>Every absence from work
>Makes enemy happy
>But the hero of labor
>Is a strike against bourgeoisie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqVOFSYRWI&spfreload=1
>>1286270
I would because white was retarded.
The second coming of Genghis Khan
Czechoslovak Legion would also apply
>in Russia to fight Austrians and get Allies to support their independence
>revolutions happen - just want to go home
>Germans sweep across empire's western frontier, can't go via land or Baltic/Black Seas
>welp guess we have to CROSS SIBERIA TO VLADIVOSTOK AND SAIL FROM THE PACIFIC TO FRANCE
>essentially fight their way across the continent, engaging with all sides
>refuse Bolshevik orders to lay down their arms, then give them Kolchak
>railway is Russian, one track, and in wartime: absolute hassle to travel on
>eventually get to Vladivostok and make it back to Europe
>war is already over but Czechoslovakia is free
>>1287469
Don't forget about the Czar gold they may or may not have snatched along the way.
>>1286380
This is the only correct answer.
Or Michigan Polar Bears taking Archangel.
>>1287740
"When the British commanders of the Allied Intervention arrived in Arkhangelsk on August 2, 1918, they discovered that the Allied war material had already been moved up the Dvina River by the retreating Bolshevik forces. Therefore, when the American troops arrived one month later, they were immediately used in offensive operations to aid in the rescue of the Czech Legion. The British commanders sent the First Battalion of the 339th Infantry up the Dvina River and the Third Battalion of the 339th up the Vologda Railroad where they engaged and pushed back the Bolshevik forces for the next six weeks.[citation needed]
However, these two fronts each became hundreds of miles (kilometers) long and were extremely narrow and difficult to supply, maintain, and protect. By the end of October 1918, they were no longer able to maintain the offensive and acknowledging their fragile situation and the rapid onset of winter, the Allies began to adopt a defensive posture.[citation needed]
The Allied commanders soon also came to the realization that they would not be able to raise an effective local force of anti-Bolshevik soldiers. Thus they gave up their goal of linking up with the Czech Legion and settled in to hold their gains over the coming winter. During that winter, the Bolshevik army went on the offensive, especially along the Vaga River portion of the Dvina River Front, where they inflicted numerous casualties and caused the Allies to retreat a considerable distance."
>>1286035
I think both sides were superficially extremely badass but at the same time extremely retarded and cruel. Russian history in a nutshell.
>>1286380
They should have a movie.
>>1287469
Also apparently the commies killed the Tzar because the Czechoslova Legion was near the town where they had the royal family.
>>1286035
This guy is the only side worth fighting for.
>>1286035
BETTER DEAD THAN RED
daily reminder that the parasite tsar was an idiot and was executed by a jew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcsYtHggelg
BOLSHEVISTS AND REACTIONARIES GET OUT
>>1288442
>dude what if we put a machine gun on this horse-drawn wagon
>>1286312
>omnious red figure shouts lighting bolts while holding a gun in his right hand, reminiscent of Zeus
>release the cyanide gas pepe
>Zeus man finds a flag and a wreath
>Zeus sends letters down from mont Olympus to the common men - Zeus is giving them knowledge like the good paternal god he is
Im sorry anon, but that comic doesn't make much sense
>>1286035
Black army kind of guy.
Tell me about how the war started.
From what I understand, it took a while for the conflict to begin, after the Bolsheviks took power.
How did the main armies organize, both equipament and men?
And what were the main armies? I know about Denikin's, Wrangel's and Kolchak's.
>>1290110
It was a huge clusterfuck that's impossible to explain coherently here but I'll at least try to cover some lesser-known facts. Russian Empire was crumbling apart, some people just wanted independence, some wanted Russia to be republican, some wanted gommunism and some were just batshit crazy.
It took a while for the conflict to start because it was a clusterfuck and Bolsheviks did allow for the elections of Constituent Assembly that was a provisional organ which was supposed to decide what to do with Russia. Then they quickly dispersed it. The other factions were gathering their strength in the meantime.
Also Bolsheviks didn't know what to do with German Front until they were finally pressed into signing the Brest-Litovsk Treaty. Russian democratic forces were supporting war until the end since Western Powers were urging them to in exchange for their support. One of the reasons why Bolsheviks had support were their promises to finally end the war.
Then there was the problem of Ukraine that was essentially the wild card there. Ukrainians, unexpectedly for Russians, turned out to be very capable of organizing and seizing power after February revolution. That was the time when people didn't know much about Ukraine so sudden explosion of national sentiment all over the place came out as shocking for the bystanders, especially Russians who considered them nothing more but a weird peculiarity of days long gone. 1917-1921 in Ukraine is even harder to explain in brief, though.
In short, it was a clusterfuck. Reds were actually united, thus they won.
>>1286035
Reds.
Commies might be shits but there is literally nothing more subhuman than russian nationalists.
>>1289889
This t.b.h. The white message in the OP is way more clear. Whites=cool and reds=evil.
>>1286035
Black Army best army
>>1286136
Whites targeted urban Jews because of their association with communism
Reds targeted rural Jews because of their association with anticommunism
>>1286320
The birth of porky
>>1289898
>>1290263
this
Red army all the way.
Fuck the useless tsar.
>>1290270
>be Jewish
>support Communism
>get shot by the white army
>White Russian exiles go abroad and tell everyone about le Judeo-Bolshevik revolution
>be Jewish
>oppose Communism
>get shot by Red Army
>you and your family denounced as 'rootless cosmopolitans'
Just can't win.
>>1286035
>uses cyrillic like a dumb neo-soviet retard with down syndrome
fuck off kid
>>1291201
Occupational hazard of not assimilating. As long as you're an outgrouo, you're a target.
>>1291219
>occupational hazard of not assimilating
That they were not "assimilating" is more a result of how they were marginalized and kept as an out group than the Jews refusing the "welcome" of a "tolerant society" in the spirit of an exclusive ethnic identity. You are acting as if the people doing the pogroms, rounding up Jews and spreading antisemitic propaganda were doing it to help the Jews assimilate, and not out of the endless reasons to hate Jews. Bottom line is for a long period of time in Europe, Jews were intentionally excluded from society and barriers were put up to make participation difficult. Yes, Judaism is an exclusionary, communal religion, but given the opportunity to assimilate, Jews did in droves. See Germany pre-1933 and US - forever.
Jews were once excluded for killing Christ, then for refusing to convert, then in the context of the Russian Civil War, for daring to have political association. It doesn't matter what the reason, or how absurd or convoluted the reasoning, Jews as a ambiguously defined people were found at fault and deserving of isolation, scorn and death. That more than any other reason is why Jews retained their identity - because they were not allowed to take another.
>>1292193
>That more than any other reason is why Jews retained their identity - because they were not allowed to take another.
As far as christendom was concerned, Jews brought it upon themselves by being obstinate and unreasonable in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. However, Jews could pretty much always be baptised, and many individuals took that step (although it could take a generation or two for the stigma to fade). From Luther to Prussian Pietists, Protestants went to great lengths to convert the Jews, who mostly refused. The Catholic Church used to pray that God should make the Jews see the light. Basically, they were always welcome to re-join Christianty (with a giant 'or else...'). It was only modern ideologies of race and nation that made assimiliation impossible.
Not the anon you responded to BTW.
>>1292089
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf
>>1290263
>>1290619
green self defence master race
>>1286079
LOL the whites killed more in Finland than the cheka anywhere
>>1286035
I'm with the Green army
>>1286106
>I'm a communist
>so I'll go with the red army
This is stupid no matter how you look at it
>>1291042
Good thing they already got rid of the tsar before the October revolution then
>>1293468
Not for good.
>>1293471
That's just cruel senpai
>>1293478
The one on the far right looks like a man in a wig
>>1293392
And had no Fifth column problems when the Reds went for round two in 1939.
Coincidence?
>>1293392
[citation urgently needed]
>>1293489
The two on the left just look like men.
>>1293478
Fuck man.
I don't get why they killed the children. They hadn't harmed anyone, and they could have been easily integrated in the soviet society.
>>1293518
They later deported entire families in cattle cars to Siberia. Most infants froze en route, and were thrown off at stops.
You really surprised?
>>1293518
Whites would probably have set up a kingdom in exile somewhere in yurop.
And as harsh as it sounds, killing the children may have been a strategically sound decision - can you imagine what would have happened during WWII if the Nazis had dangled peace, the church and the Tsardom in front of millions of starving peasant conscripts old enough to remember what life was like before the revolution?
>>1293539
>starving peasant conscripts old enough to remember what life was like before the revolution?
Shitty?
>>1293545
>06/16/16(Thu)04:32:59 No.1293545
>>1293545
>>1293556
Vlasov Army best Army.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O3sdE9azMI
>>1293556
>2016
>Communist
That's what capitalism does, it's like the post-apocalypse.
>>1293556
> Let's forget that city become like hundred times igger because one pretty house for 10 people is better than dozens for 10000 peoples. XD
>>1293616
>Unironically defending commie blocs
>>1293626
What exactly so bad about them? They don't look pretty at photographies is just one big meme.
>>1293645
Literally no one who has ever been in one would ask.
The planning is shitty.
The rooms are tiny.
The ceilings are bomb-shelter low.
The sound isolation is poor. As in - hear the neighbours above, below, and on both sides of you.
External heat loss is massive.
All the piping is essentially derelict at this point, installed cheaply and crappily.
The electrical installation is terrible.
>>1293691
> The ceilings are bomb-shelter low.
I always forget about that. Mine commie blocks ceiling is like three meters high so you need to jump to even reach the ceiling with an arm.
>>1293700
Presumably a special project, my folks live in one as well - also about three meters.
But, say, in the very common 602. series of housing the ceilings are a miserable 2,55m.
>>1293556
Reminder that the Russian Civil War was the Syrian War of the 20th century.
Reminder that commies were the ISIS of their time.
>>1286136
Don't be silly anon.
Russians don't kill Jews.
Only those nasty evil Germans do.
>>1293504
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Civil_War
Reds
4,500–5,500 killed in action
10,000 executed
2,000 missing
11,000–13,500 dead in prison camps
>>1294365
The Cheka killed WAY more than that, but still
>27 January – 15 May 1918 (3 months, 2 weeks and 4 days)
Damn, that's pretty impressive.
>>1294365
Those numbers are pretty much the low estimates for the Cheka at best
>>1294374
>>1294378
Not the guy who did the claim, but as a proportion of populace, Finnish whites killed something like 1.1% of the population. In USSR, 1.1% of the population around 1918-1922 would be something from 1.1 to 1.3 million people. Cheka's repression killed perhaps 150 000 to 200 000 people, which would make Finnish whites 5.5 times more deadly.
>>1294407
Their overall activity across Russia and post-Russian states as part of the Red Terror campaign estimates at least a million.
> Red and White, two sides of the same coin.
> Black is the only choice.
>>1286035
I'm a "not a dirty slav shitter" kind of guy
>>1297308
Sneaky germano kind of guy I take it?
>>1297003
Who was white had become red
Blood had stained him crimson.
Who was red had become white
Death had bleached him pale.
Anyone have some decent anti-commie movies about the period worth watching
Preferably with subs
>>1286106
>i'm a communist
>>1286035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEmPaTc589M
>>1300883
No damned commies in my motherland
>>1300797
enjoy starving to death faggioli
>>1300797
My family spilled blood defending Tashkent and the Caucasus from the Red Army.
Never forget.
Never forgive.
>>1301112
At least they didn't shit in their own hats and call it a 'revolution' tovarisch
