Did Catholics get their iconography from Roman paganism?
Jupiter for comparison
>>1261101
A lot of Catholic art such as the one you posted is from the Renaissance which is when everyone had a raging Greco-Roman boner. Also if you look at earlier medieval art it doesn't bare as much resemblance to classical art.
>>1261121
>tfw you crown yourself
This predates all traditional depictions of angels.
Catholic art during the Renaissance was heavily influenced by paganism. The Sistine Chapel, for instance, has men kissing (not in the loving way of friends, but in a very homo way, pic related), nude lewd poses, and an extremely buff Christ (who is also beardless to make him more qt).
>>1261264
There's angel-like figures on Greek pottery from 500 BC
>>1261292
Angels having wings comes from the Old Testament.
>>1261306
That's true. However when Jews actually go to depict angels they do not do it the way Christians did. They did some really funky stuff while the Christian thing went with the pagan thing.
Angels having human like bodies frankly doesn't work much with old testament theology. God is without gender and not within human form so it makes sense other divine things would follow suit.
>>1261306
Having wings is an understatement
>>1261306
Really? I remember the Bible describing angels as concentric rotating rings and other wierd things
>>1261101
>>1261103
Considering that Jupiter only has an eagle but YHWH gets a human, lion, ox AND an eagle I'm gonna have to say that it was an improvement.
>>1261377
*cherubim
>>1261355
This is a Romanesque (a Medieval style) Western Rite Orthodox icon. It features the sort of depictions you're talking about.
I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if European Christians took an artistic influence from Pagan Europe, but the basic ideas are probably from Judaism and Christianity themselves, just viewed through a European lens.
>>1261306
Yeah, but did they come in that "human with only one set of wings" form? Not trying to be snide, legit question.
>>1261395
>Yeah, but did they come in that "human with only one set of wings" form? Not trying to be snide, legit question.
Yeah, Cherubim were always depicted that way, including those on the top of the Ark of the Covenant.
All of Christianity - Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant - borrows heavily from pagan (specifically, Attic mystery rites) and neo-Platonic ideas, due to the influence of Paul of Tarsus, who most certainly was not an observant Jew nor a Pharisee.
Modern Christianity owes more to Paul than the historical Jesus.
>>1261400
I though Cherubim were those weird heads with wings that had a lion on the other side or some shit?
>>1261400
How do you know? I thought the Ark of the Covenent was never found
>>1261406
>Attic mystery rites
you mean Mithraitic?
>>1261445
No, Attic.
Attis was a deity/mythological figure around which a mystery religion formed, related to the Eleusinian mysteries (another mystery religion focused on Demeter and Persephone which focused heavily on an afterlife). This Attis was a god of vegetation, who in his mutilation, death, and resurrection came to represent the changes of the seasons.
Central to Attic rites was the belief that upon dying, the blood of Attis had 'redeemed the Earth', as well as the eating of foodstuffs symbolic of Attis' flesh and blood (the Earth).
>>1261410
Ezekiel depicts them that way, but he also has them with six wings, four used to cover their body (like Seraphim). The Ark has them just their wings over their heads, touching, and having six wings doing that doesn't seem practical. 1 Kings 6:27 also gives a description indicating but two wings. Also Ezekiel describes his Cherubim with multiple faces, whereas the Ark has the Cherubim with one face each (saying their faces are to look at the mercy seat). So we're talking about different depictions here.
>>1261414
It's certainly a hypothesis, but it's based on the fact that throughout the Torah, angels are very anthropomorphic, even passing as humans. The other depictions don't appear until much later.
It's almost as if they're both indo-European religions which all feature an old man as the elder/king god (yahweh, odin, Jupiter/zeus) with a son revered in his own right to almost the same level of worship, often a patron deity (jesu, thor, Mars). Its almost like they have to battle evil (satan, fenrir/jormugandr, chronos/titans), and they have the same holidays (christmas, yule, saturnalia and way more)
>>1261582
>Jews
>Indo-European
Pick one and only one
>>1261101
They got their theology and church structure from Roman paganism
>Theology
We are silly demons that only want to go to hell to live with Satan and do demonic sexual things, we only care about condemning ourselves and don't listen to reason, science, or saving souls.
And we enter the family by saying: Save me Satan.
We intend to enjoy hell.
Because Satan is the bad guy and totally not the saviour. This is a notion hard to understand when a devil is in the equation.
>>1261121
>When Jesus asks you where the Roman Empire went
>>1261406
>Saul of Tarsus
>of the tribe of Benjamin
>student of Gamaliel
>not a Hebrew of Hebrews
>>1261101
All Christianity is; is paganism with the face of Jesus Christ.
>>1262436
Christianity is unlike any other religion on the planet.
It's not like Jupiter was commanding people to love their enemies. . .
>>1262463
> Jupiter
How about you look more deeply in the major religions of the world.
>>1262463
Loving your enemies is a stupid idea. You should oppose your enemies in any way that you are able and then destroy them if possible.
>>1262463
>It's not like Jupiter was commanding people to love their enemies. . .
so christianity is special just because it has some maxims that appeal to you
>>1262508
No, it's special because it's God and the way it interacts with his subjects and creation is special.
>>1262484
I have and I can tell you with 100% certainty that Christianity is unique.
No other religion claims that the Almighty Creator of the Universe was incarnate in the human body of a historical person.
No other the religion has a centuries spanning prophetic tradition predicting its advent.
No other religion has influenced global history to such a degree.
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by Him.
>>1262522
Yeah, no. The christian god has no verifiable evidence for it's existence.
>>1262523
>No other religion claims that the Almighty Creator of the Universe was incarnate in the human body of a historical person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_been_considered_deities
>No other the religion has a centuries spanning prophetic tradition predicting its advent.
Except for Islam and Zoroastrianism
>No other religion has influenced global history to such a degree.
Except for the above mentioned, and Hinduism, and Buddhism, and all the polytheisms of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, and Rome
>>1261101
Did you find this out all on yourself anon? Impressive you must be a child genius.
Also implying that's a problem. It's art, not theology. They could have been influenced by Egyptian and Babylonian and there still wouldn't be any problem.
>>1262523
Yeah, only one religion is delusional enough to jump through mental gymnastics trying to convince people that they have one god despite that god referring to 3 other beings.
>>1262523
oh your fullfilled prophecies are nothing but horseshit. prime example is the emmanuel prophecy which isn't even about Jesus and only speaks of the woman being a young girl, not a virgin. a personal favorite of mine is the prophecy of Judas's death in Potter's field which is a bizzare splicing of Jeremiah and Zechariah
>>1262556
Fuck off with your shit. I was raised non-Christian (Singapore Chink) and hearing that Trinity bullshit from Filipino monkeys is the height of hypocrisy and ludicrousness Christians ever sold the world with.
>>1262562
>Emmanuel
>God with us
>Not about Jesus
>>1262566
>what is mental gymnastics
>>1262564
It's not. Read 1st John and the Gospels. There's literally nothing wrong with it. It's a false issue raised by Muslims as a desperate grasp for legitimacy as an Abrahamic religion
>>1262572(You)
>>1262538
Kings claiming to be representatives of deities from polytheistic pantheons is entirely unlike a single Creator God being incarnate in a carpenter.
Furthermore, to claim that these various paganisms have influenced world history to the same extent as Christianity is ludicrous. All those cults were/are confined to a geographical area whereas as Christianity has a strong presence on every continent.
>>1262573
>read in the Bible how the Bible proves that the Bible is accurate
Literally cult tier logic
>>1262579
No, it's
>Read the Bible to understand what the Bible says
You said
>I don't understand the Trinity
I said
>Read where the idea of the Trinity comes from so you can understand it
>>1262578
>Furthermore, to claim that these various paganisms have influenced world history to the same extent as Christianity is ludicrous.
No, it really isn't, since that influence includes the influence it had on Christianity itself.
Or were Socrates, Plato and Aristotle secret time traveling Christians?
>>1262393
He fabricated those credentials, as his writings show a complete lack of even surface-level Jewish theology. There's a reason that the original apostles of Jesus disliked Paul, and considered him to be an usurper.
Not to mention his odd inconsistencies (claiming to be a devout Pharisee but in the employ of the Sadduccees, inventing stories about persecution of 'Christians' in Damascus, etc.)
>>1262573
>ONE GOD
>ONE
>NUMERO UNO
>一
>I.
>AYY LMAO WE"RE THREE
Maybe Jews are good in math as per the meme. They didn't buy into your bullshit.
>>1262588
>where the idea of the Trinity comes from
The Council of Nycea then?
Reminder that majority of Christendom once subscribed to the non-trinitarian arian "hesesy", but the trinitarian party was more well connected.
>>1262588
>>I don't understand the Trinity
As if that's very hard. Last time I checked, 3 wasn't 1 or vice versa.
Anyway, have fun with your incoherent cult shit, I'm not going to waste any more time on it
>>1262603
Cont.
In imposed it on everyone through bolshevik-style "democratic centralism" aka ecumenical council.
Reminder that Christianity was the Bolshevism of the Roman Empire.
>>1262590
I agree that Christianity preserved the best aspects of Classical philosophy and it is thanks to Christianity that most people even know about those belief systems.
>>1262591
>h-he's lying!!1! oy veyyyyyyyyy!!11!
Also, Peter and Paul reconciled.
>>1262566
the prophecy wasn't about the Messiah. it was a prophecy being used for a sign to King Hezekiah, thus implying that it would not only happen in his lifetime but relatively soon. and soon after we have a child being born who has no reason to be mentioned besides to fullfill that prophecy. he serves no other purpose in Isaiah and if he didn't fullfill the prophecy it would have been nonsensical to even mention him. Most christian scholars acknowledge this but then go on to say this is a "double prophecy" even though there is nothing in the text to support a 2nd fulfillment since as I mentioned earlier this was a sign for Hezekiah that had nothing to do with the Messiah and there is nothing in the text that says it will be fullfilled twice
>>1262626
>Peter and Paul reconciled
No they didn't. That is a later tradition that was invented to reconcile Paul to Peter & James , and more for artistic purposes, since artists liked to portray the 'reconciliation'. The Jewish-Christians (and their later descendants, the Ebionites) - who revered James and Peter - thoroughly considered Paul to be a madman and demonically possessed, indicative of the reality that there never was a reconciliation.
No reconciliation is ever mentioned even by Paul or his epistles.
Also, Paul was a huge liar. Claiming to be a very devout Pharisee, yet for some reason working as a Sadduccee lapdog? Or the impossibility of him being sent to Damascus by the Jews to arrest "Christians" - Damascus, a city in Greater Syria where the Jewish authorities had no jurisdiction whatsoever (they barely had any jurisdiction in Judea itself), to persecute a group which was still so thoroughly Jewish that its one and only differentiating mark was holding Yeshua to be a prophet.
You're an idiot for believing a liar, and not even a good one.
>>1261101
Isn't it obvious?
>>1261317
>Jews having a handle on reality.
>>1261336
I think you're talking about Elijah's supernatural chariot. I don't think that was intended to depict an angelic being.
>>1261388
It's false.
Matthew depicts the Lion
Mark depicts the Ox
Luke depicts the Man
John depicts the Eagle
>>1261410
A griffin?
>>1261414
The blueprints are in the bible; the wings of the angels cover the mercy seat. I believe the ark has been found but not recovered, as the area is in muslim hands.
>>1262573
>Read 1st John and the Gospels.
Original versions or those that were later doctored by church to push the trinity idea?
>>1262683
Pretty sure he means the vision of Ezekiel.
>>1261406
Saul was a member of the Sanhedrin, as he assented to the murder of Stephen.
Only members of the Sanhedrin get to vote on such things.
Saul was a better Jew than any Jew living since Saul, and he counted it all as loss.
>>1262436
Catholicism.
Learn to tell the two apart. It could save your life.
>>1262695
>I know, I'll post a meme to discredit him and pretend to know more about the history of the new testament than he does. When he doesn't have a response other than "you're wrong" then I'll look more intelligent
>>1262484
Jupiter = Nimrod
Your understanding of these things is false.
>>1262701
None of this shit is supported by Pauline writings. It's all later fanfiction by Luke.
>>1262527
The universe He created, and the life He led here on earth, and His resurrection, suffice.
>>1262538
Any prophecy in the qur'an was stolen from the bible; Mohammad made no prophecies and performed no miracles.
>>1262706
>Jupiter = Nimrod
>>1262562
It's a double prophecy, which you would know if you knew God.
Unto us a child is born: Isaiah and his wife have a baby.
Unto us a son is given: Jesus, the only begotten Son of God, is given to the world for redemption.
The miraculous fulfillment of the first tells the godly that the second will also come true; that Isaiah is a true prophet of God.
>>1262564
God has more dimensions to Him than we have to us.
>>1262572
...and the Word became flesh and dwelt with us.
...and the Word was God.
>>1262704
So instead of losing with dignity you are going to just spew greentext?
>>1262579
The bible tells the story of the earth from beginning to end; only God can see the end from the beginning; the bible literally proves it's from God.
>>1262701
Saul/Paul was a liar.
His writings show no understanding of even basic Jewish theology, and borrow more from Neo-Platonism and Greek mystery religions. Even his understanding of current events is bad: see, for example, his declaration of being a devout Pharisee, but being the lapdog of a Sadduccee, or his error about the Jewish authorities having jurisdiction outside of Judea to arrest individuals in Damascus.
There's a reason Peter & James disliked Paul, and that's saying it lightly.
>>1262671
In 2 Peter 3:16, Peter refers to Paul's letters as γραφὰς ("scriptures") which indicates he viewed them as authoritative. I hope next time you'll make sure to have your facts straight before you start accusing people.
Until then, I'll be praying for you.
>>1262590
They lived 1200 years after the beginning of the bible was written.
It's shocking they didn't have a better grasp of the issues.
>>1262742
It would be a crushing argument if Peter actually had written a piece in question.
>>1262591
Yes, because he demonstrated that he knew Jesus better than they did, having spent three years with Jesus in Arabia, and that he knew more about the New Covenant than they did, again having spent three years with Jesus in Arabia.
He also called them out for being Judaizers and hypocrites.
And yet, at the end of his life, this is what Peter said about Paul:
2 Peter 3
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
>>1262595
Father is God.
Son is God.
Spirit is God.
There is one God.
It's not really that difficult.
>>1262463
Remember that time when Pagan Rome was tolerant of all religions within the empire?
Remember that time when Christian Rome literally massacred so many pagans and destroyed so many of their sacred things and places that they effectively wiped Paganism from the face of the Earth?
>>1262603
Yes, Constantine and Arius were tight, which is why it behooves you to learn to tell the difference between Catholics and Christians.
Constantine brought Arius back into the Roman fold, and favored him and his ideas over actual Christians.
>>1262742
>>1262749
>what is interpolation?
>>1262717
Jupiter......... = ............Nimrod.
>>1262707
Your basis for discrediting the bible is your opinion, which you are welcome to.
It just happens to be absurd, and your jealousy oozes from it like leprosy.
>>1262754
It was necessary to secure unity within the church. Pagans would never accept christians within them as shown by millions of christians who were martyred within first few centuries of its existence.
>>1262762
>refering me to the post I replyed to
>>1262769
>It just happens to be absurd
How exacly? What proof do we have that Luke didn't pull all of this stright out his ass?
>>1262733
>Losing
>>1262707
Acts 22, literally quoting Paul.
“Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.” 2 And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, they kept all the more silent.
Then he said: 3 “I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers’ law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today.
...
And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’
>>1262754
>Remember that time when Pagan Rome was tolerant of all religions within the empire?
No.
>>1262771
>millions of christians who were martyred within first few centuries of its existence.
Right, those "innocent" Christians who eagerly attacked pagan temples and broke the law in order to be martyred...
>million
A few thousand at best
>>1262739
Jealousy oozes like leprosy from every post you make.
>>1262781
Then you don't know history very well, and it's not my problem that you're so ignorant. Best head on over to your containment board on /christian/.
>>1262779
Exacly. Fanfiction by Luke.
>>1262748
kek
>Peter didn't write 2 Peter. I know because I watched Zeitgeist twice.
>>1262788
Idiocy oozes like pus from every post you make.
>>1262753
It's a strong defense, natural man.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If you want to know the things of God, you have to become family.
>>1262793
>Zeitgeist
Holy shit, are we in the '00 again? How is Bush presidency going on?
>>1262765
That's your question? Couldn't you look the word up?
>>1262793
that's the consensus of scholars based on analysis of the writing styles
>>1262776
So, every word of the bible is false until each word of the bible is proven true to you.
And not even then.
>>1262782
Hundreds of thousands, actually. Do some reading.
>>1262791
Literally quoting Paul.
>>1262804
Spotted the Bart Erhman fanbois.
When are you going to realize that dude's a money whoring troll?
>>1262814
Ok, smartass. Here is me quoting you: "I love sucking cocks".
>>1262819
first off that isn't an argument, and 2nd he is far from the only scholar supporting that. like I said it is the consensus
>>1262789
To say pagan Rome was tolerant of all religions when we know they sacked Jerusalem (destroying the Temple) and persecuted Christians is an ignorant statement. Plain and simple.
>>1262828
You can follow Ehrman and Origen into hellfire if you choose; you're a free will moral agent.
Just don't be confused that's what you're doing.
>>1262813
The later Church establishment had a very clear interesting in exaggerating and promoting a massive amounts of casualties, if that somehow skipped you.
However, by what we can gather from non-Christian Roman sources, persecution was quite low and even discouraged, and the only noteworthy persecution was that during Diocletian, which only occurred in the Eastern part of the Empire. On the other hand, there is a great deal of literature pointing to Christians purposefully committing violence against pagans in order to be martyred, and such was the widespread nature of the problem that there had to be convened several councils later on in Carthage and Spain to discourage Christians from doing so.
>>1262833
The Essenes killed a Roman legion.
That was not going to stand.
>>1262833
they didn't sack Jerusalem because of religion. there was an rebellion against Rome twice
>>1262842
and yet more nonarguments
>>1262847
Rebelion was caused by systematic persecution.
>>1262843
>Christian sources are unreliable but Roman sources are perfectly accurate
>>1262843
Of course that pagans were trying to hide their crimes.
>>1262854
not because of religion. Judaism was tolerated and allowed to pay a tax instead of worshipping the emperor, more than christians got
>>1262833
>they sacked Jerusalem (destroying the Temple)
That was hardly a religious matter, and had more to do with the Jews revolting a number of times.
The Romans were actually quite magnanimous to the Jews: for one, they never attempted to move against the Jewish religion, and let the Jews practice freely - so much so that they even allowed the Jewish High Priesthood to continue to exist with a number of its ancient prerogatives. There were at least three major Jewish revolts, and only until the third one were the Jews scattered and Jerusalem destroyed. Quite tolerant.
>"Christians were persecuted" meme
>>1262868
>let the Jews practice freely
>destroy their most holy place
k den
>>1262771
>>1262781
Read a book, please.
>>1262879
No, YOU need to read a book.
>>1262879
No u.
>>1262858
Actually, the Christian records themselves speak about this wave of Christians attacking pagans for the purpose of being martyred. It became quite the controversy.
For example, we have the clergyman Novatian in the 3rd century who clearly writes about how those Christians that recanted their faith under torture or threats were shunned and humiliated by other Christians, since the opinion of the time was that martyrdom was the most desirable state and that any means to attain it should be pursued.
Sounds like a suicidal death cult. Of course, this position had to be reversed once Christianity became large enough, hence the various councils that eventually did away with this position.
Truly, those "innocent" Christians.
>>1262895
You wouldn't spew nonsense if you really did.
>>1262895
>one
>>1262899
>things that never happened, the post
>>1262899
Martyrdom is desirable for Christians because Jesus taught us that greater love has no man than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
However to say that "any means to attain it should be pursued" is false because Christians are called to imitate Christ in all we do.
>>1262843
There were 10 waves of persecution. Not 1.
>>1261101
obviously
>>1262930
>We are told that as the saint approached Rome, the faithful came out to meet him, rejoicing in his presence, but grieving that they were to lose him so soon. He prevented them from taking steps to obtain his release. [...] At the prefect's command, the prisoner was hurried off to the Colosseum, where, we are told, two fierce lions were let out and Ignatius was at once killed. Thus his prayer for a martyr's death was answered.
>He prevented them from taking steps to obtain his release.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/IGNATIUS.htm
>>1261582
This has to be some of the worst pseudo-sociology I've ever read
>>1262909
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcellions
>>1262969
And thus rather than living out a few more years, he gave everything he had to show the world that the God in him had conquered fear and death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#Persecution_of_early_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire
>Some early Christians sought out and welcomed martyrdom. Roman authorities tried hard to avoid Christians because they "goaded, chided, belittled and insulted the crowds until they demanded their death."[17] According to Droge and Tabor, "in 185 the proconsul of Asia, Arrius Antoninus, was approached by a group of Christians demanding to be executed. The proconsul obliged some of them and then sent the rest away, saying that if they wanted to kill themselves there was plenty of rope available or cliffs they could jump off."[18] Such seeking after death is found in Tertullian's Scorpiace or in the letters of Saint Ignatius of Antioch but was certainly not the only view of martyrdom in the Christian church
>>1262885
>>1262888
>>1262930
>Roman authorities tried hard to avoid Christians because they "goaded, chided, belittled and insulted the crowds until they demanded their death.
>According to Droge and Tabor, "in 185 the proconsul of Asia, Arrius Antoninus, was approached by a group of Christians demanding to be executed. The proconsul obliged some of them and then sent the rest away, saying that if they wanted to kill themselves there was plenty of rope available or cliffs they could jump off of."
Droge, Arthur J.; Tabor, James D. (November 1992). A Noble Death: Suicide and Martyrdom Among Christians and Jews in Antiquity. San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco.
>>1261582
You just went full retard
>>1261279
i agree, catholicism is evil, lets all dress in wizard robes to hide our evil bodies my orthodox brother
>>1262989
If only other christians would follow his example.
>>1263023
Amen.
>>1263014
....so they insulted them.
>>1263033
>Preaching is insulting
>Preaching to an unrepentant crowd is going out of your way to get martyred
>>1263033
And what does it say about their character if they were insulted by the truth?
>>1261101
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography)
Long story short, yes.
>>1263034
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
- Lk 21:33
>>1263042
>>1263044
>denigrating the ancient religion and old customs of one's forefathers is not insulting, it's preaching
Idiots born of idiots.
>>1263053
They will pass away though if all Christians killed themselves.
>>1263053
You forgot your trip, Aelien
>>1263051
9 What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous,
not even one;
11There is no one who understands;
no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away;
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one
13 Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit;
the venom of vipers is on their lips
14 their mouths are full of cursing and of bitterness
15 their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery lie in their wake;
17 and the way of peace they have not known
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin. 21But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. 22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
- Rm 3:9-24
>>1263059
Look at how murderous people like you get when we tell you that Jesus loves you, died for you, and all you have to do is surrender unconditionally to His love in order to be saved.
>>1263061
Do you really not get that there's an eternal afterlife ahead of you?
>The Circumcellions regarded martyrdom as the true Christian virtue (as the early Church Father Tertullian said, "a martyr's death day was actually his birthday"), and thus disagreed with the Episcopal see of Carthage on the primacy of chastity, sobriety, humility, and charity. Instead, they focused on bringing about their own martyrdom.
>On occasion, members of this group assaulted Roman legionaries or armed travelers with simple wooden clubs to provoke them into attacking and martyring them. Others interrupted courts of law and verbally provoked the judge so that he would order their immediate execution (a normal punishment at the time for contempt of court).[6] The sect survived until the fifth century in Africa.
>not a death cult
>>1263081
No because I have not died. And nobody who died told me it was so.
Since they're sort of dead.
And can't do that at all.
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
- Jn 10:10
>>1263095
Jesus died and is telling you so.
>>1263107
Jesus died alright but he didn't tell me.
>>1263095
Jesus died.
Jesus came back.
Jesus told people who told people who told people who told you.
>>1263109
Then I'll pray that one day you'll hear Him.
>>1262878
Yes, it's called forfeiting your rights if you break the law. It's the same principle as going to jail if you kill someone, retard.
>>1263125
This is really cringe-worthy
>"I'll pray so that this fictional character can talk to you and tell you he loves you like he told me."
>>1263138
Until next time, God bless you.
>>1263138
It is if it's false.
It's not if it's true.
Do you have any mechanism to sort the truth from the falsehoods in life?
>>1261377
>ark of the covenant
You mean that box with a convoluted description that isnt still around for us to look at? Sure, lets consider that in the conversation
>>1263065
I never post images of Jesus looking like a feminine model and I always greentext the quotes unless I'm already greentexting something from the post I'm replying to.
>>1263153
Does the person who believes in a Semitic father god who created everything but now only watches, because revealing himself would somehow violate our free will to follow him or not and believes these things specifically because his parents and a book told him, does that person have any mechanism to sort out the falsehoods?
>>1263334
One way God reveals Himself is through His ר֫וּחַ which counsels us to discern truth from falsehoods.
>>1263321
You never do.....what you just did in this post.....
Am I missing something here?
>>1263334
Not a good one. You can go with your gut instinct; that's about the best you can do.
This thread is proof positive that the christians deserved to be persecuted and the only problem with said persecution is that the romans weren't more thorough about it.
>>1263543
Gee, the world hates us. Whatever shall we do.
>>1263081
No, because there is no such evidence that said afterlife exists.
>>1263516
Do you have any mechanisms that dont involve circular reasoning
>>1263548
The law of conservation of energy is evidence that whatever it is that makes up our life-force does not simply disappear when we die. I understand this is not conclusive evidence but evidence does not always need to be conclusive.
>>1263575
Following the Spirit is an act of faith, not reason.
>>1263586
So you admit that you do not adhere to reason, then
>>1262075
topkek
>>1263548
Literally billions of witnesses say you're wrong.
>>1263692
Following God means ending up where God is.
Do you admit that the opposite would also be true?
>>1263692
Reason is a necessary but not sufficient tool for knowing God.
>>1262463
>It's not like Jupiter was commanding people to love their enemies. . .
You're right, which is why Christfaggotry is a religion for cucks and weaklings.
>>1264065
Christianity is for everyone.
>>1263917
Nah, this is bullshit. There are not billions of witnesses for any sort of afterlife, let alone your specific one tied to your specific religion.
>>1263576
>>life-force
Nonsensical term.
>>1264108
Soul then? Or maybe animating principle? Call it what you will.
>>1264115
Do you consider amoebas and other animated things to have souls?
>>1264115
>Soul then? Or maybe animating principle? Call it what you will.
Call WHAT what we will? You said conservation of energy. But death doesn't violate conservation of energy. There is nothing left over.
>>1264135
Whatever it is that separates a person from a corpse.
>>1263090
You'll never convince any of them. Arguing with people who know they're right is a losing battle.
>>1263090
Circumcellions are considered heretics
>>1261101
Definitely.
>>1261101
A lot of it, yes.
>>1262463
You are right its not lime any other religipn because its like every other religion. Christianity stole so many ideas many of them whole cloth.
>>1262493
It's like saying keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. Is how I see it.
>>1267270
Which is apparently why Christfags seem so intent on coming here when any poster with a brain is calling them out on their 5th-century kitchen-sink cult. 4chan doesn't want or need them, and yet they keep coming. You play with the lions, you get eaten. You'd think they would have figured that out by now.
And every follower of jesus carries his spirit and lo, they raped children.
>he was a good boy
>did miracles and shit
>he dindu nuffin
And he claimed Satan was evil
We totally should try saying save me Satan.
