Other than it appearing in the bible (kind of) and being declared a dogma, do Christians have any reason to believe God is a trinity?
>>1230267
It doesn't appear in the Bible.
>>1230267
No.
>>1230277
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
>>1230267
Let me ask you a question.
How much could we know about God if God never approached mankind at all? Never talked to anyone, never intervened in human affairs, never manifested as one of us?
How much could we guess about Him?
>>1230291
>1 + 1 + 1 = 1
>>1230291
The sentence after this say
>And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
In this case it does not literally mean that water and blood are the same thing (they aren't) nor is it saying spirit is the same thing as water (it isn't). It's saying they are one as in they are united in a common cause (bearing wittness). So this would be mean the previous sentence is not literal either. Just as blood, water, and spirit are 3 spirit things so are the father, son, and holy ghost.
In other words you are polytheists in denial.
>>1230315
>In other words you are polytheists in denial.
>anon is so retarded that he doesn't understand the trinity
>>1230323
There is no such concept as trinity in the bible. I already showed that John's gospel is actually supporting polytheism.
>>1230329
And anon, are we Moslem? Do Christians take the bible as is?
There is a trinity, a trinity that doesn't make sense with logic, but must be applied faith.
>>1230267
Pokemon Emerald is the best Pokemon game.
Every one who believes in the holy trinity is a pagan neo-roman who worships three gods in addition to saints, prominent women, mother mary, and probably some trees too
>>1230267
Would there be any reason to postulate God as a trinity other than in the case of divine revelation?
>>1230336
It's directly contradicted by Jesus's own apostles.
John says blood, water, and spirit all have a common unity. He than says this unity is like the unity between the son, father, and holy ghost. This is a metaphor about what divinity is like. Just as earth, blood, water are united in cause while remaining 3 seperate thing so too are the 3 divine being united by remain sepeate.
This isn't faith, it's about you directly ignoring what the most important book in the religion says. Trinity is not only abscent from the bible it's refuted.
>>1230296
1 x 1 x 1 = 1
I can maths too.
>>1230363
>Jesus's own apostles.
You mean leaders of the Churches. The foundations.
>>1230315
kek
I am not a polytheist; there is only one God, and He is my Father.
I like how you judge one verse by judging a different verse. That's unique.
>>1230329
John did no such thing, heathen.
It was all in your mind.
>>1230357
>worships
>saints
>mary
>worship
That's wrong.
>>1230363
The Certainty of God’s Witness
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
Come back when you understand this.
>>1230362
The purpose of the doctrine was to allow Christians to worship 3 separate Gods while saying they are polytheists. The holy spirit in the old testament was not a living thing, it was a sign that marked divine presense, sort of like how an angel's wing mark them as special. The way the new testament treats it is a lot like Gnostic Sophia Goddess.
I'm not sure what the deal with Jesus is, I think the origenal followers understood him to be a prophet or angel but it got out of hand and they called him a God. The man himself said the father is greater than him.
>>1230400
Well that is true, the Father is usually greater than the Son.
>>1230373
It's the verse that literally comes right after. Do you not understand how fucking writing works. When one sentence comes after another it means they are related. John even uses the exact same sentence structure and similar phrases to help relate back the two sentences.
>>1230389
John says spirit, water, and blood are "one"
He also uses the exact same phrase to describe the 3 divine characters.
So is blood the same thing as water? No. Than the holy spirit is not the same as the son.
"They are one" means they all bear witness together.
>>1230400
It's more that you had a split, relatively early, by the Jesus followers who were also Jewish and viewed Jesus as a prophet/reformer/whathaveyou and still maintaining a Jewish identity, and the converts among the various non-Jewish communities, who didn't have that hangup and tended to syncretize the idea of "JESUS IS IMPORTANT GUISE" with their pre-existing religious notions, which included a more permeable barrier between gods and men, and that's where the notion of Jesus being a deity comes from.
>>1230421
I told you to come back when you understood it.
Not yet.
Since you seem dull, I will give you a hint. Read the verse. It says these three, water and the spirit and the blood, agree as one.
While it says that the three witnesses, the Father, Jesus, and Spirit, are One.
>it's not SUPPOSED to be logical
>that's the BEAUTY of it, it """"""transcends"""""" logic
>it's a feature, not a bug!
>what are you stupid, not understanding that?
Christians are such fucking faggots sometimes.
>>1230423
Jesus created the universe.
That's where the notion of Jesus being deity came from.
>>1230431
Heavenbound faggots.
Where are you going after you die?
>>1230431
>getting triggered that it doesn't make sense
Maybe you should have 「Faith」.
>>1230435
Shut up proddy.
>>1230438
The same place as you, nowhere.
>>1230438
>>heavenbound
lol
>>where are you going after you die
Probably to the same place I was before I was ever born.
>>1230438
But anon, only Heaven is reserved for people who follow the Church.
>>1230443
Pray to Mary to shut me up.
kek
>>1230457
Why should Mary do anything for you?
>>1230449
You sure?
(No, of course you're not sure. You're just hoping that you're an animal in a senseless universe, and you don't understand what's going on.)
>>1230267
Honestly, as a believer I have no idea lol
I don't even know what all this trinity talk is about. I just recognize his unconditional love and see Him as wanting the best for us.
>>1230291
Yeah see "and these three are one"...why over complicate things? Love, forgiveness, mercy on our brothers and sisters. Don't carry anger or frustration for too long, remember humility, remember the ones who are suffering, pray, etc etc That's it for me. At least at the moment.
>>1230451
You were conceived to be an eternal person. You did not exist before you were conceived.
You will always exist in one of two eternal destinations, and you get to pick.
It's not a trick question.
>>1230454
Garbage church people say to control the masses. Just garbage. Every cult says they're the only group going to heaven. Every single cult.
>>1230460
I got news for you dude. Mary has never heard you, has no idea who you are, and cannot save anyone.
And all Marian apparitions are demonic.
>>1230463
Right back at you, you fucking cretin. Only I don't hop on to believing that a book assembled by a bunch of insane Greeks at the order of a murderer has the answers.
>>1230475
That's a new one.
Rest assured the books were written before 95 AD ended, and had nothing to do with any Greek murderers.
>>1230479
Sure. All Marian apparitions draw people to Mary, a dead woman.
All real miracles draw people to Jesus.
The devil has powers and can counterfeit signs, wonders and miracles, and does so for the gullible.
>>1230481
I said assembled, moron. They canon of the books was decided by order of Constantine, a murderous usurping piece of shit who converted because the other religions told him there was no coming back from the horrific shit he did.
>>1230488
>Sure. All Marian apparitions draw people to Mary, a dead woman.
>a dead woman
>dead woman
>dead
She's alive in Heaven you fucking mark.
>>1230467
>>Eternal person
No such thing.
>>two eternal destinations
These aren't real either.
>>1230495
More aptly, the council that decided the canon of the books was convened by order of Constantine.
>>1230495
Take the 66 books out of the bible and rearrange them.
What changed?
I bake a dozen donuts, and you put them in your box. Did you then bake the donuts?
>>1230496
And she's dead on earth in a small pile of dust and bone grit.
>>1230501
I at no point said he made the books, I said the current canon was decided by a council convened on his orders. Are you actually retarded?
>>1230504
I'm going to spit on your grave buddy. Don't talk shit about Mary.
>>1230513
Keep trying to pretend that "canon" matters.
kek
What a buffoon.
>>1230517
>canon doesn't matter
Oh, so all those apocryphal books that contradict your beliefs (more so than the Bible already contradicts itself) are now good to go?
>>1230516
All catholics are momma's boys. You'd be picking your teeth off the ground, papist.
>>1230523
No, and they never were.
>Oh noes I have to believe all of the books in the Roman canon because they put them in there! what do!
>>1230539
>You'd be picking your teeth off the ground, papist.
>said the manlet
>>1230546
kek
You amuse me by being 100% wrong all the time. That's some sort of skillset you have.
>>1230553
How tall are you?
>>1230559
How gay are you?
>>1230560
Not at all, why? You offering so I don't beat your ass?
>papist vs proddy shitfling
Girls, you're both ugly
>>1230593
I at least I'd admit I'm ugly :^)
>>1230566
I've never asked a man how tall he was in my life, that's why. I figured maybe you gay people operated differently.
>>1230616
>being a manlet
The entire notion of a the Trinity is the idea that you believe in theosis.
That is the idea behind seeing the Holy Spirit as the third part.
The Father - God
The Son - The firs to be Christened.
The Holy Spirit - That part of God that allows us to be like Him because He died like us, mortal, fleshly.
The Holy Spirit is just the "Christ Way." The ability to become One with God that we were endowed with after the fall. Call it a "bound angel" or whatever you want to help you understand it. The Holy Spirit is essential to theosis which is the entire core of Christ's teachings. This is why the charismatic church of today is a sham and ebb and flows, while other churches which seem to be "charlatan" like Mormonism, doesn't lose faithful often.
Congregationalist Christianity likes to separate God into three idolatrous images: God, Jesus whom if you don't follow you are damned to hell; and finally the "Holy Ghost" which they claim talks to you through speaking in tongues and other bubcus interpretations of Scripture. However in other contexts, the three are all one, as it conveniences the situation ("The Lord is speaking through me!").
So to answer the question, the Trinity is integral to true Christianity. The hard truth is that there is no one church that follows the Bible. You have to take a little bit of everything and not cosign yourself to any one belief. Every religion has their own kernel of Truth, and we are constantly in that state of rebuilding Christ's church that He tore down. The church is just a font to know a congregation, and in doing that, get to know God a little better, Who is both within and outside us.
Pic related. Jefferson was one of the first people to see this.
>>1230296
2 + 2 = 5
>>1230665
>third
>part
>>1230665
Oh, I should add, that it's important to make a distinction over "theosis," because many mainstream churches see it as blasphemous to assume that we have the right to be Christened like Jesus, even though the word atonement comes from the term "At-One-Ment."
My friends from Pentecostal church believe that we don't "deserve forgiveness," but that was never up to us to decide.
>>1230688
I'm not following.
Plato
>>1230697
There is no parts, it's must be a whole.
>>1230709
That's the Platonic view of God. It was adopted by some theologians.
Trinity literally has God split into 3 parts, arguing against this is just playing language-games.
>>1230732
>into
>3
>parts
Fucking wrong, that is partialism. That is a heresy.
>>1230665
Jefferson confirmed as a lost deist burning in hell.
>>1230732
The Trinity is literally One God not split into any parts.
Why is this so hard for you to understand?
>>1230732
Are you saying tripartite is platonic? If I say my dick has three parts, does that make my dick platonic?
>>1230817
>parts
Stop that.
>>1230732
Bible
Plato
Follow one.
>>1230765
Because 1+1+1 = 3.
You don't get to make these special claims because your religion says so. Basic mathematics debunks the idea of christianity as a monotheist religion.
>>1230895
>applying mathematics to God
>>1230924
>special pleading again.
Lemme repeat this again. 1+1+1 = 3.
You don't get an exception to this because you think you should.
>>1230936
Let me repeat this.
That this a Whole cannot be a part.
So with that, 3 Wholes, which cannot be parts, combine to become one Whole, but also One whole has the embed powers of the other Two Wholes inside of him.
>>1230950
>literally just repeating 1+1+1=1
>>1230936
Trying to reason with a Christian is like trying to enter a safe by knocking on it. Don't bother.
>>1230950
Sorry no, doesn't work. The trinity doctrine you adhere to is ultimately 3 separate deities, not one single god.
>>3 wholes
Yeah, that means 3 separate deities.
1+1+1 = 3.
>>1230976
You know what? You're right, I have computer games to play anyway.
>>1230988
>Yeah, that means 3 separate deities.
That would imply PARTS you fucking retard.
>>1230431
To be fair, it's pretty much just as logical to accept that there are things beyond human conception than to accept that there are things that aren't. You could argue about the specifics of trinitarian worship all you want, and whether it's even valid given the evidence we have for Christianity, but the idea of believing in a triune unity isn't THAT stilly all things considered.
WHY are all the protestants here Arian heretics?!
>>1231098
Because they hate Catholics that much.
>>1230438
The ground rofl.
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 12:45 "For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me."
John 8:58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 10:33 "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (Other Jews interpreted what he was saying as him claiming to be God.)
I didn't include John 5:7-8 because it's generally thought to have been wrongly inserted into the bible, which makes you wonder about the bible's general authenticity.
>>1230895
But you're assuming the Trinity is not a single being, and on that basis adding three separate things together. That is not the Christian theological claim.
It may help to consider a teacher who administers three different courses. If a student takes all three of those courses, they only have one teacher in each course, and yet in total they still have only one teacher.
Theists should stop being hipocrites, buy a gun, one bullet and then blow your brains out so you can already be in your precious heaven with your precious tri-ghost.
That is, IF you really believe in it.
>>1231098
Theological illiteracy
The fruits of Protestantism
Ironically enough Atheism is basically just Protestantism+ despite their hate boner for fundies
>>1232486
>Atheism is basically just Protestantism
And it's because there was a GET that confirmed God as real and Arianism as the truth.
>>1232466
>ignoring the fact that suicide is a sin
>>1230363
Why are placing so much importance on """John""" other than to spite trinity supporters and """John""" quoteminers.
>>1232466
>fun with strawmen
atheists should stop being "hipocrites", buy a gun, and get into armed robbery because if there are no eternal consequences to your actions then why bother being good?
>>1230267
There's like verse in John that mentions it. That verse is probably mistranslated as well. So no.
>>1232486
>Atheism is basically just Protestantism+
>>1232466
as a theist, that would fuck up my theurgy
>>1230388
It's horribly wrong, but all Catholics do it anyways.
>>1230499
Yes, a sun god worshiper until the day he died.
>>1230895
Threefold God.
Not three gods.
>>1231098
Arius? The counselor of Constantine? The founder of the Roman Catholic Church?
kek
>>1232153
Origen the heretic cut it out of the bible.
Why pay attention to heretics? It's in the bible. It's true.
