Was the Treaty of Versailles too lax?
I've heard a lot about it being one of the main reasons why the Germans rose again against the world because it was too harsh
But if it was too harsh how was German able to create in 20-25 years enough of a Industrial and economic base that they can wage war against the world (and lose) again?
>>1225906
It was harsh, too harsh for them to do and harsh enough to royally piss them off. It wasn't too lax, it just wasn't enforced.
Hitler has occupied the Rhineland, oh well whats the worst that could happen.
>>1225909
Nice try Hans
If the army hadn't been limited and they were allowed to become a stable economy first then it would be fine
>>1225906
Eternal Anglo fucked his own ass for being greedy. It's all good.
>>1225906
State Capitalism can do wonders to economies. Look at how China went from a third world nation in the 1970's to the 2nd biggest economy in the word in 30 years.
>>1225906
I personally think that instead of reparations and limitations, Germany should instead have had a partition. Give Hamburg to Denmark, Frisia to Netherlands, everything inbetween to the UK, Bavaria to Switzerland, and everything else split along the Elbe between France and Russia. All powers would be required to thoroughly colonize these lands. If Hans doesn't like it, they can move to Argentina or something.
a nation of poor, resentful krauts was bound to cause trouble. allies should've done what they would do after WWII
>>1226053
Their national debt due to foreign loans has sky-rocketed, too.
>>1225906
Yes, liberals opposed the occupation of the Ruhr and Rhineland and took a policy of appeasement when Hitler came to power, undoing the work of millions who made the ultimate sacrifice in ww1 and many still suffering from disabilities. There were plenty of opportunities to nip German power in the bud before their re-armament.
A certain breed of people can't think properly, they thought because individual Germans were innocent that restraining them was immoral, but they had to be restrained because of the behavior of their leaders whom they served mindlessly.
Tbqh if people had listened to the Yanks WWII would never have happened
>>1225906
Every war that does not result in complete extermination of the enemy. (Virtually every war in history) plants the seeds of the next war.
To this day Ireland and Scotland fight England for independence, Korea is just as determined against China, etc.
Reparations only work between kings and lords that die and have their enemies forgiven upon their deaths.
Debts so large they cannot be paid off in a generation mean the next generation also despises you but they were not tested against you in battle.
It is infinitely better policy to actively fund the reconstruction of your enemies as you get to rebuild them in your image while building bonds of trust and economic co-dependence. Japan/US, Modern Germany/EU/US etc.
>>1226053
>State Capitalism can do wonders to economies.
Good thing that the best period for German interwar economy was heavily free-market pre-crisis Weimar Republic.
Then Hitler came and in 6 years his finance minister turned the economy into ruin(btw. he was freemason).
I'll just put you simple number - tank production.
Between 1934 and the end of 1938 they've produced 3503 tanks, that's 876 per year.
In 1939 they've produced 370. They were broke as fuck when the war started.
Hitler's economic "miracle".
>>1225906
>Was the Treaty of Versailles too lax?
No. Interwar foreign policies were to harsh too. They just should've gave Hitler everything he wanted and there would be no war.
>Ignore the Treaty for 20 years
>Reparations had been completely cancelled even before the NSDAP took over
>Let's use it as an excuse to wage war anyway lol
>>1226142
Eh. Its still nowhere as bad as the United States.
That said, in the end economics is not powered by reserves or foreign debt.
Its backed by the productivity of a nation and its military power. Hitler knew that and that's why he was able to turn Germany around so fast from 1933 to 1936.
See... If you can get people to work hard regardless of what they are paid either through propaganda or slave labor, you can do amazing things for a country. Also state capital.
>>1226334
Eh. You forget they changed their tanks from shitty PzI and PzII to PzIII and PzIV.
It required retooling and were more labor intensive.
Sure the PzI's were great against Poles, but the only way to take on French and Soviet armor was to have the III/IV and even then they needed more work.
>>1226411
They've started producing PzIV's by 1937 though and Pz III's by late 1938 while still running Pz I and II production. On top of "new" Pz 38(t).
>>1226207
Weren't the French the ones that wanted Germany to be split in "independent" nations?
Hitler didn't even care about Versailles privately, he was buttmad about trianon which was an actual fuck over
>>1225906
The treaty wasnt lax, it was the enforcement that was.
>>1226180
If you did that, Germany would just say fuck it and join the Soviets. I mean if you don't let them rebuild and always look at them and try to keep them weak and poor they will join the group thats against the west aka communists.
Germoney pay war debnts
t. Frankreich
Perhaps the Allies should have made more concessions towards Weimar Germany. If a moderate politician had been granted the same political victories as Hitler (unification with Austria, Memel, Sudeten), the popularity of the moderate government would have surged and Hitler might have never taken power.
>>1225906
they just pussied out, you either forgive germany and give them a sensible punishment or you completelly destroy them so ww2 cant happen, fucking them over way more than you should but not finishing the job so and entire nation can hate you was probly the shittiest decision
>>1225906
It was both too harsh and not harsh enough. It didn't destroy Germany's capacity to wage war, nor did it install a new interstate order to replace the one that compelled it to.
>>1226210
> peace is not possible if full anexation if my ex-enemy is still alive
> but it is if i totally control the defeated country and rebuild it in my shape builiding bonds and co-dependence
> totally not puppetry or vassaling, just codependence
Shoo shoo NWO shill
>>1225906
>start a world war
>destroy entires cities & kill countless lives
>"germany you need to pay for what you've broken"
>"wow we dindu nöffin wrong we gud boy"
>start a war because they were mad they were mad they could get away with destroying half a continent
>get wrecked again
>"let's not make them pay or else they will do it again"
germany and his fuckbuddy austria literally have a carte blanche to fuck up and do as they wish every single time they want to - and it's happening again, since ironically the pathetic femaleman "leading" europe and european nations decided it was a good idea to give all the power to germany... because what could ever go wrong, right?
if someone is a registrated sex offender he's probably ok to babysit your kid because we know he's a sex offender so he knows we know and won't do a thing, right?...
read this
>>1227755
It's not really so much that they pussied out, it's that you had multiple victorious allied major powers, some of whom wanted option A, some of whom wanted option B, and settled on an absolutely retarded compromise.
>>1226061
This might have actually worked. It would certainly prevent a Nationalist uprising
>>1228383
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume your baiting and not this retarded
>>1228489
easy there, franz
go waste the surplus you hoarding scum got from plundering your neighbors on some pills and everything will be alright
>>1225906
Compared to what they did to Austria, it was pretty lax.
It was too lax, ridiculously so compared to the conditions imposed on France by Germany in 1871 and in 1940 for example. It being too harsh is literally just a Nazi meme.
>>1225909
>It was harsh
No, it wasn't. They escaped almost unscathed, unlike their allies.
Opinion on this?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGxoZNyW_Lg
>>1226398
>Eh. Its still nowhere as bad as the United States.
Really? How bad could it be. *Check Wikipedia*. Well fuck.
>>1226981
Yes
>>1226180
>blame the liberals
>they're a weak people, and their bloodlines are weak
You do realize that a lot of the people who were heading the Appeasement Policy, in fact, virtually all of them, were veterans from the First World War. It was because of the brutal nature of warfare, and the massacres and bloodshed that they were all witness to, that they thought it best to be lenient, and allow for Germany to retake the land it had originally lost. Up until the invasion of Poland, the land the Reich was stealing was considered at the time "traditionally" German or Austrian, and so the reason for the theft by the Germans was understandable.
Those same men you are calling weak were the ones prepared to make that ultimate sacrifice, and the same ones who spent their adolescence fighting a war so unimaginably brutal that it caused them to be hesitant about starting a second one just twenty years after the first.
>>1226996
Hitler was mad about the Kingdom of Hungary being divided?
>>1230349
I meant the division of the ostrich reich but yeah he did return many lands to hungary lost to it on its partition
>>1230379
Slovakia was made into a German puppet and Romania kept most of their gains
>>1230391
They gave Hungary all of the Transylvania mountains, the ukrainian Carpathian mountains, and several parts of slovakia, the only lands untouched were the croatia ones. I'm surprised to see that much interest as it was from a non Hungarian national
>>1228471
>It would certainly prevent a Nationalist uprising
This is sarcasm, right?
>>1228501
Creamy Meme my dude. Lets actually look at what happened. WW1 (for which all nations in europe where responsible) happened. France and GB aren't able to win on their own (even with the eastern front) and need american help. Americans try to propose a somewhat fair peace treaty. Le ebin france is in full on revanchism mode and creates circumstances that have massive greenhouse effect on revanchism and fascism. Germany is rising again and france is too weak and politically divided to stop them. Germany declares war and rapes france brutally, GB has too exhaust themselves so much that they loose most of their international significance and colonial empire. Americans treat germans decently and very lenient after the war. Germany smoothly joins the Western power bloc and becomes a fundamental ally. Yet your solution is too Call for even harder sanctions.
>>1226013
>>1226207
Essentially true.
>>1230169
Look at Japan.
They are monetizing their debt.
If you realuze what that means, you'll understand that they are practically in default.
Anyone that praises Abenomics is a fool.
>>1230592
I wonder where this Weimar was economical prosperous and actually a good place meme come from. From 1918 to 1923 you have civil war flaring up every other time. From 1929-1930 you have full on crisis and essentially a presedential dictatorship. Thats 6 good years at best. In these the economy was okay (not great), the society was deeply divided politically (the parties having their own armed militias). So at the peak of Weimar we had a mediocre (if one is generous in his judgement) democracy that wasn't able to solve the issues that undermined its existence and was bound to fail once it encounters a crisis.
With a decent peace treaty after WW1 we would have a whole different story though.
>>1230684
It's historical revisionism. 4chan suffers from it greatly because people can't shun shitposters without sources here nearly as well as we can in real life.
The Weimar had 5-6 decent years that were mainly built upon loans and aid from abroad.
Hitler's Germany did far better on its own.
There's also a new historical revisionist meme that Germany had to invade countries to keep the economy going.
This is a retarded broken window fallacy that has caught on among political scientists because it self-confirms their political views.
Germany 1933-1940 simply got its shit in order and became vastly more productive. People worked their asses off and killed a lot of corruption and inefficiencies from the old system.
It would have been sustainable. Hitler's biggest mistake was declaring war on the Soviets.
>>1230717
I would agree on your views regarding Weimar. About the third reich you are wrong though. Corruption was fucking widespread and the rapid rearmament wasn't sustainable because germany was bleed dry by crisis,loans and reparations.
