what do you seriously think about david benatars asymmetry argument for antinatalism ?
>avoiding a painful life is good
>not experiencing joyful life is not bad but neutral because you dont rob the joy from anyone and they dont regret missing out on it while nonexisting
therefore we must always favor antinatalism
>>1216616
You have to accept shitty hedonism to begin with in order to accept that argument.
>muh pain
>muh joy
How very important!
>>1216641
the words are just placeholders you could also speak of fulfilled and unfulfilled lifes
>>1216616
they are both neutral, also morality is a spook so utilitarianism doesn't matter
As far as it's more likely for a person to lead a joyful life is greater than to live an overall bad life then it's illogical and wrong to deny a person a life. (ignoring the whole issues with the impact that that new life creates on other existent life which allows for abortion to be morally justifiable)
>>1216641
Everything besides pain and joy is a fabrication of the mind and has no real value.
>>1216616
Sir, I have no opinion on the philosophical problem you have posted, but this is the first philosophical post on /his/ I have read in over 3 months.
Congratulations.
>>1216650
i sincerely doubt that but that isnt attacking the substance of the argument according to the argument its not bad to deny even a potentially happy human his life because he does not regret missing out on it while not existing
>>1216650
>As far as it's more likely for a person to lead a joyful life is greater than to live an overall bad life then it's illogical and wrong to deny a person a life
What about the serfs you lord over you middle class fuck? Every good life has ten poor men propping it up
>>1216667
off by one.....
>>1216650
>Everything besides pain and joy is a fabrication of the mind and has no real value.
Yes, of course, pain and joy, these two things you only feel in your mind, are totally not fabrications, but the rest of the world is. Hot argument there.
>>1216691
Worth can only come from the interaction of consciousness with the world. What I'm saying is every thought can be deconstructed as a combination of the emotion of happiness or unhappiness and the data you collect from senses.
>>1216667
I think the only definition of a bad action can be the one which, when deciding between a worse or a better situation, makes the worse situation become true. Meaning, the denial of something good is also bad. You should look at the relative deviation not at an absolute scale.
>>1216616
It's a waste of time to argue with an antinatalist for the same reason it's a waste of time to argue with a Shaker.
>>1216721
this abstract concept doesnt answer the question
what is it that makes the rob of joy from someone bad
all answers will be found in the consciousness of the robbed person
they miss it they feel the injustice etc
youd have to deny that the reason for it being agonyinducing for the person (!) not on some metalevel lays in the consciousness of the person
