What went wrong?
>>1201964
islam
>>1201964
Oppression of women. without the smartest subsection of the population with free reign to pursue what they wish, population obviously crumbles.
>>1201964
three part clusterfuck.
1- France and Britain being completely retarded with borders come decolonization following WW2.
2- Soviet-US tug of war in the region, including the whole Israel situation. The defeat of pan-arab nationalism, and the Iran revolutions.
3- Saudi Arabia-US-American alliance because of oil. Wahabbism.
>>1201995
To continue this. What you have in the middle-east eight now is a mini cold war between team. USA-Saudi Arabia-Israel and team Russia-China-Iran.
>>1201964
America.
Also Britain and France.
>>1201964
those chicks are middle class. however, thanks to the lack of economic development but an abundance of medicine the poor quickly outsripped the middle class and, demographically, the more liberal middle class were doomed to a tyranny of poor conservatives.
iran's conservatism stems from its poor, not from its clerisy. even in murrica the poor tend to be right wing and reactionary, what with the death of the left. the iranians pulled the same trick and now you get guys like mahmudenijad who are champions of the poor but actually are hartdl;ine reactionaries.
>>1201964
Islam, basically. Anyone denying this is a leftist cuck.
>>1202013
>more /pol/ memes, again.
Did this website get flooded by butthurt Serbians at one point?
Most of these women moved to Los Angeles and now their daughters are concubines to black cock.
What happened was basically this
>>1202012
Though I have to note that the whole "poor tend to be right wing" is not an universal phenomenom. In Latin America, for example, the same development, of poor people moving to the cities and reproducing more, turned politics to the left because the poor vote for socialists.
>>1202013
Why was Islam a problem in the 21st century but not the 50s.
>Hint: the most powerful influence on Arab countries is now Saudi Arabia/Iran and not the USSR
>>1202067
But what you just said now is different from what you said above.
Come-on anon, keep it together.
>>1202084
It does. Everything bad about the Middle East now can precisely be traced back to that lack of innovation before where the Middle East was weakening in the time of Europe rising. The Middle East was under European rule during the majority of the 20th century, something that would have been prevented if the Middle East had gotten it's shit together and not decay. Persia for example would be much better since oppression of women would exist with Zoroastrianism.
>>1201964
CIA and Islam.
>>1202064
i wish the cold war never ended
>>1202121
Mongols are a hell of a drug.
>>1202064
>Why was Islam a problem in the 21st century but not the 50s.
Because middle easteners discovered secular nationalism at that time and put religion beneath the state even though the latter adorned itself still with the feel of glory from th former when it was convenient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD-pjSOdHIM
>>1202135
The cancer started during the Cold War.
The big thing was all the independent Arab states trying to imitate Soviet style nationalism, and that failing, which led to disillusionment, and fueled the rise of radical Islam.
You can see this start to reach a head in the late 70s when the Mullahs in Iran unseated the Shah, and kebab in Pakistan burnt down the US embassy.
More music from that time to underline my point.
More Nationstate less of allah' for his sake alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bgl0f9iXTc
>>1202165
See, what I'm trying to get at here is that religion, any religion, isn't generally the problem.
The problem is fundamentalist religion, which is universally cancer.
And I mean cancer in the most literal sense, it is a component in a complex system which has ceased to help the system as whole, but instead spends all of its energy mindlessly self propagating.
The United States backing religious fundamentalists and overthrowing governments for the sake of oil.
The ME is a hell of our own making thanks to short sighted foreign policy in the mid 20th century.
>>1201995
Good post
is there any way to fix it?
>>1202187
>expecting 4chan to give you the right answer as to how to untie the political and socioeconomic knot that is the middle east
>>1202171
>and that failing
I think you mean
>and the CIA and/or US backed regional powers fucking everything up.
>>1202171
A lot of them tried the American system and got beheaded.
Wasn't just them copying the Soviets.
>>1201964
The thighs of the lady in green looks delicious
>>1202187
Let them handle their own shit. Stop invading them. Stop giving them weapons. Atop fighting proxy wars in the region. Stop accepting massive amounts of muslims into Western countries.
Treat them like China 1950-onwards.
>>1202199
muh oil*
>>1202187
That's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time but the real short term is to stop backing fundie governments like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.
The west needs to pull out of the ME altogether for a while and never go back in directly.
>>1202171
You do realize the Mullah's were copying the American/British system, right?
Egypt and Syria copied the Soviets.
>>1202176
>any religion
universalist pls.
A fundamentalist buddhist will fuck my shit up if I critizise the holyness of buddha but he wont seek out to throw faggots from rooftops and propagate a supreme kind of writing system based on his prophets origin.
Fundamentalists have fundamentalist differences and dream of societies with crass differences in law and behaviour concerning their cult.
And yes, some of these are less shittier then others.
>>1202187
Remove Israel so we don't have an excuse to invade and build a huge wall around the region
>>1202187
Crash the gulf states with no survivors.
>>1202219
This desu
>>1202192
This is something of a meme.
The regime the eternal Anglo installed in Iran was largely secular, and was overthrown by the mullahs.
Eisenhower even went so far as to side with Nasser against England and France, and save his ass.
Arab nationalism failed because of the inherent tribalism in Arab culture, the lack of democratic institutions and the fact that the Israelis kept blowing them the fuck out (three out of the four times this happened, it was without any US help.)
>>1202216
Israel is the scapegoat Arab leaders use to explain their failings.
If you took it away, they'd probably just fall back harder on the muh imperialists.
>>1202176
depends on what the funamentals of that religion are famalam. Saying all religion is equally bad is a cop out.
>>1202324
No, the copout was where I put "generally" in that sentence.
For example, all scientology is evil. No exceptions.
>>1202187
Bring in a new crop of mostly secular dictators like Saddam and Qaddafi, and let them do their own thing without outside intervention when they war among themselves or oppress their subjects.
>>1202121
>The Middle East was under European rule during the majority of the 20th century, something that would have been prevented if the Middle East had gotten it's shit together and not decay. Persia for example would be much better since oppression of women would exist with Zoroastrianism.
Iran was never under European control though.
>>1201981
>women
>"smartest subsection of the population"
You are thinking of gays, which is the real reason the ME sucks.
>>1202386
Nah.
You see, all ruling castes need legitimacy.
Since democratic institutions rarely succeed in Arab countries, most Arab regimes use conflict with an external enemy to shore up support.
This inevitably poses real problems to the rest of the world when they pick somebody that doesn't like to be fucked with.
The real solution is states like Lebanon, which have limited democratic institutions, constant internal conflict, and don't have strong enough political centralization to be a military threat.
>Wahabbism
>US wars against middle east
>US toppling democratic governments in middle east
>US funding terrorists groups in proxy war against russia
>>1202213
>A fundamentalist buddhist will fuck my shit up if I critizise the holyness of buddha but he wont seek out to throw faggots from rooftops and propagate a supreme kind of writing system based on his prophets origin.
Confirmed for being a retard. Buddhists can be just as violent and aggressive as any other religion. Tibet was once an warmongering empire. Japan had a major Buddhist uprising in the 15th-16th centuries. Modern Buddhist monks have been known to incite ethnic, political, and religious violence in Sri Lanka, India, and Thailand.
>>1202425
In India it's usually the Hindus doing it, if memory serves.
>>1202426
Sure, but India is also overwhelmingly Hindu with a significant Muslim minority. Buddhists are, ironically, a very small minority. Of course they don't stir up as much shit as the Hindus who are 80% of the population.
The U.S. basically created jihadism to resist communism. Turns out they're not as easy to control as they thought.
>>1202392
>What is BP
>>1202459
BP owning oil in the country does not mean the whole country was under European control. That's like saying China was controlled by Europeans because of Hong Kong, Macau, Shanghai, etc.
>>1202475
When your main export is Oil it's kind of the same things.
>>1202457
>Saudi Arabia and Iran created jihadism, and the US didn't concentrate on stopping it because they were too busy dealing with reds
FTFY
>>1202499
>implying
America actively supported it when the target was the Soviets but quickly lost control of it and are now looking down the same barrel
>>1202457
The U.S. did nothing wrong.
>>1201964
>What went wrong?
The US fucking up the region.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1NO5DwrQz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg9bQDqKJnU
>>1202496
Retarded socialist demagoguery desu.
So (America's) Georgia is owned by Korea because there's a bunch of KIA factories there? Lrn2 international commerce.
>>1202507
That simply isn't true though.
There absolutely were Arab volunteers fighting in Afghanistan, but they composed a few thousand men, when the local Afghan fighters composed hundreds of thousands.
The US simply didn't care about the snackbars in Afghanistan one way or the other, because the foreign policy establishment was focused on the Soviet Union.
Meanwhile, the Shia jihadists abducted the CIA station chief in Lebanon and tortured him to death over the course of about 8 months, killed 230 Marines that were there on a peacekeeping mission, and shuffled a series of American hostages from car trunk to basement to closet for most of the 80s.
During the Soviet-Afghan War, transnational Sunni fundamentalism simply wasn't a significant political force compared to the other forces US policymakers were dealing with. Even if they wanted to fund them, it wouldn't be worth the investment.
>>1202394
/thread
>>1201964
Islam mixed with corrupt dictators mixed with Israel mixed with socialism mixed with the Eternal Anglo and Eternal Franc mixed with oil
>>1202499
>implying America does not have a long history of supporting jihadists against Soviet interests and secular governments
>>1202531
>nuh uh America totally didn't support the mujahideen
>trust me guyssss!
>>1201964
Is there anything The Eternal Anglo doesn't transform in a flaming hellish shit with a touch of his eternal dirty anglo hands?
>>1202674
You do realize a lot of mujihadeen branched off into Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, right? How do you think the Taliban got so powerful in the first place? American and Saudi funding.
>>1201974
/thread
>>1201981
this liberals and libertarians cannot stand that other people do not behave like them
>>1203049
>You do realize a lot of mujihadeen branched off into Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, right?
not true btw.
>How do you think the Taliban got so powerful in the first place?
Pakistan
>American and Saudi funding.
no, pakistan
>>1203049
They were actually a bunch of immigrant afghani students living in Pakistan who returned to Afghanistan with Pakistani and Saudi funding.
>>1201995
>France and Britain being completely retarded with borders come decolonization following WW2.
>implying that isn't intentional
>split up and force different ethnic groups together
>keeps them fighting amongst each other and not the real enemy (you)
>>1202512
nice cherry picking
>>1203585
Keeping groups of a region in a bitter fight against anyone for prolonged periods instead of advocating a mutually desirable peace is exactly what leads to the situation we are seeing now.
>>1202067
Nigger you have no idea about pre-Islamic Arabia. Also you have a dumb teenager's understanding of the phenomenon of religion itself.
>>1202238
>Arab nationalism failed because of the inherent tribalism in Arab culture
No - simply because it was caught up in the far greater conflict of the cold war between two superpowers with vastly superior wealth, military might, and political sabotage than they could hope to compete with. Many of these radical and fringe Islamist parties gained momentum simply because they were allied with the Soviets/USA which channeled training and funding to them which otherwise they could not have gotten.
>>1201964
CIA's puppet governments were completely retarded from their conception and just waiting to be overthrown
>>1202203
china REALLY want that dollaridoes. and as of now their economy and ours are one and the same.
Mudslime is too stupid and prideful for that
>>1202238
yeah. The USA propping up it's gulf oil producing states was nothing.
>>1201964
Wahabiism.
I mean back then, Baghdad looks like a chill place. It's semi-western, woman can into not wearing a hijab etc. And then Saddam and the Wahabiism ruins it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AajPxROvcTA
>>1204661
>And then Saddam and the Wahabiism ruins it.
Saddam kept Wahhabism down you retard. He was strongly nationalist first and stomped down on violent Islamist groups.
It's only with his downfall were the militant groups like Al-Qaeda really able to start surging oin Iraq properly.
>>1202187
Invade Saudi Barbaria, burn Mecca and Medina, steal the black stone, build a heated swimming pool around it and pour molten pig fat into it. Bury the remains of every counter-attacking terrorist covered in tons of alcohol and smeared in pig fat as well, force the survivors and captives into working with pigs and make sure that the people that guard them are sadistic homosexuals who will rape them till their sorry death.
Muslims thing they can do everything they want because they are "stronger". Show them that they're wrong, that will convince them. They are absolutely afraid of enemy that can fight back violently, in Afghanistan 2011 there was a situation where British patrol was ambushed by Talibans and the commander said: BAYONETS! Talibans that weren't killed were fleeing, I don't think a single British soldier was killed in that action. For the next 3 months Taliban activity in British-controlled sectors disappeared.
Meanwhile the "surgical dronestrikes" make them think that we're cowards, it's absolutely missed strategy. If you want to physically "annihilate islamic terrorists" then you should kill like billion people, which isn't an option, so you have to intimidate them and push them into thinking that Islam was a mistake.
And I don't mean that we should kill them all with bayonets but to combat islamic terrorism, any terrorism in fact you need to have boots of the ground killing the other guys as brutally as possible. Bombing, dronestrikes and other "safe" tactics only leads to the terrorist organisations' ranks inflating.
>>1204746
>this much edge
>>1204704
nice try mohammed
>>1201964
Is that Iran? Well, I think just for Iran people were getting tired of the Shah's incompetence and his general restrictions on public displays of faith. Then Khomeini represented the "Anti-Shah" and his persecution and exile only made people support him more
>>1201974
first
post
best
post
>>1204746
is there any earth-dimension that this will actually work?
>>1204952
Terror doctrine have their own charm too. And the fact that such atrocity befall them and yet Allah didn't lift even 1 finger to help them will blow their moral and they will start questioning their faith.
M>>1204976
Terror doctrine is premium fuel for terrorism and insurgency. You confirm everything the insurgency says about you and Fred resentment and recruitment.
>>1204976
> start questioning their faith.
fucking nigga that's not how humans work.
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/
>>1204746
When are you heading off to the front lines?
Religious fundamentalism by an undereducated populace.
The US is headed in the same direction.
>>1204661
>american attempts history
>>1205082
>The US is headed in the same direction.
I don't remember any Christian ramming an airplane on someone building because they don't worship their version of fairy tails.
>inb4 Crusade
That is a fucking self-defense after decade of never ending invasion and occupation of Holy Land.
>>1205102
>I don't remember any Christian ramming an airplane on someone building because they don't worship their version of fairy tails.
Don't remember any Muslims doing that either
>>1205102
>That is a fucking self-defense after decade of never ending invasion and occupation of Holy Land.
>Crusades
>defensive
lel, them baltic tribes were real invasive right
>>1205114
>them baltic tribes were real invasive right
I know you're trying to make a sarcastic joke, but yes the Baltic tribes are well known to have raided Poland's eastern border regularly. Poland asked for the Teutonic Order to come and put the Baltic pagans down.
Extensive cousin marriage as endorsed by Mohammedanism.
>>1205149
It was in force well before Islam
/thread
>>1205102
>after decade of never ending invasion
The 1. Crusade started a whole 200 years after the last raid that can be considered part of the "islamic invasion"
>>1201995
I agree with you on points 2 and 3 but don't forget that the pan Arab nationalist leaders fought to defend those borders. Jordan has had those borders and hasn't seen much turmoil ( aside from a small civil war against the PLO ). One cannot only blame external forces for the middle East problems, tribalism has always been strong (the Pan-Arab nationalism was an attempt to overcome this but it was also an affirmation of it) and the culture there isnt the most peaceful ( but God do I love it). You also have the whole liberal ideas (I.e the westernised youth) in a struggle against the traditional concepts in the region, something which occurred in the West with a lot of bloodshed.
too much “dancing and jubilating” would be my guess
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/27/iran-students-flogged-with-99-lashes-for-dancing-and-jubilating/
>>1202187
Federalism
>>1202187
Rebuild countries
Raise the standards of living
Proper education
THIS is what actually fixes societies
>>1202475
>BP owning oil in the country does not mean the whole country was under European control.
Tell that to the Shahs we kept installing on the throne whenever we felt their interests didn't align with ours.
Western powers supported retarded governments like islamists to fuck with each other. It backfired.
The level of female "progressiveness" in the Middle East at that time actually surpassed modern female "progressiveness" in the West today.
All of those Middle Eastener women had loose legs, but only for the top 10% of men. They would rather share a man with other women then settle for a "lesser" man.
This obviously results in a huge number of angry sexually frustrated men who had no chance at having a mate.
Not able to accept this, they rightfully revolted. They used Islam as a tool for their revolting and restored the status quo; no man will be denied a mate ever again. And to protect this status quo they also destroyed objects and thoughts of Western degeneracy.
Tldr: beta uprising
>>1201964
jews.
clinton the jew puppet started bombing them because the kikes thought they were making nukes, nerve gas.
then the kikes did 9/11 and made us bomb their countries even more.
>>1205529
Don't tell me you actually believe that.
>>1202187
Destroy Israel
>>1205558
What are you, a cuck to deny the power of the beta uprising and its role in hystory?
>>1201964
They failed to sell this kind of lifestyle to the rural uneducated part of the population i.e. the majority.
Conflict was guaranteed when a massive amount of this kind of people moved to the urban regions. Could've ended better outside of a context of Cold War and paranoia by the great powers, but we cannot know.
>>1202187
free market
>>1205163
If it wasn't sustained for additional centuries it would avoid more suppression.
>>1205573
The surplus males need something to do since harems institutions will exclude. And if they're true believers that want sky virgins even better.
>>1205603
I hate to tell you this, but cousin marriage was pretty popular for most of the world for the longest time.
>>1206239
Christian Europe for the most part forbid blood marriage, they were outbred tinstead to prevent clannishness and a family for consolidating too much.
>>1201964
United states of murica decided they needed stronger soft influence in the region, then they decided fuck the region all together
shitty region
shitty people
shitty religion
>>1206313
Russia let its friends down too
>>1204704
Allah can get fucked then
>>1201974
Islam was there during the "good" times, and it is indeed a big part but it would be foolish to break all the problems in the area down to just this one factor, western involvement had a huge part in first promoting the more liberal way of middle eastern politics and then turned it into what we have now.
Iran will become great once again, that I am sure of, they have the smartest people there and are successors to the first and best true civilizations.
Sectarianism
Wahhabism
>>1205225
what is jubilating
>>1208716
what is google
>>1201964
The Middle East was entering modernity nicely.
This was obvious throughout the 19th and (up until the) mid 20th century.
Honestly, this >>1201995, not to mention Ibn Taymiyyah fanboys gaining more traction because of it and the MASSIVE victim playing that is almost universally shared even among secular muslims.
They're back in the same mindset they were during the Mongolian invasion where they're the ones with the "big boo boo" and everyone is a meanie.
>>1201964
White people
>>1201964
the decline of the Ottoman Empire, which made the Ottomans believe they had to reform, but reformed in the wrong direction, become oppressive and murderous, triggering a series of rebellions, which allowed the French and British to carve up Ottoman lands, who then basically exploited the region for a few decades trying to fund their own psychotic meme wars (aka WWI and WWII), leading to the installation of the Saudi traitors to rule over Arabia by the British, leading to the US allying with Saudi Arabia for easy access to oil, and giving the Saudi Royal family way too much money which they used to fund insurgency and terror groups with the aim to purge all non-Sunni religious ideas and people so they can control illiterate Muslims who have seen nothing but war and famine for over a century, who believe Saudi Arabia must be divinely chosen because they hold Mecca and Medina.
>>1201995
Iran's revolution is the best thing to happen to the Middle East. They're more Democratic than most countries that claim to be Democratic, and ahve been progressing extremely quickly. Not only has the Iranian wealth actually gone back to the Iranian people, literacy rate exploded, and higher education is extremely high, especially among women.
>The Middle East was entering modernity nicely.
Please end this European created meme.
The only places that were "modernizing" in the Middle East were touristy places where white people would go visit. Literally, 2-4 cities per country. Everywhere else was having all their food and wealth drained away to the Empires. Literacy and education plummeted, and the only people who could enjoy the "freedom" of those tourish regions were the sell outs and politicians who bowed the the Empires.
The poor and hungry rallied around their religion (because what else could they rally around?), and forced out the decadent Europeans, who then began bombing them and arming terror/rebel groups.
>>1201964
>>1201974
Americans
>>1210429
If all I had in life was the fact that the worst Rambo movie was dedicated to me, I'd suicide bomb some people, too
>>1202121
Most of that is because of shitty ottoman policies to protect established guilds. The legal changes in europe that let them go around these only happened after the Black Death
>>1201964
>Afghanistan
>Middle East
Why does the US exist
>>1201964
Watch Bitter Lake.
>>1201964
too many but lets go to the latest:
>US supporting the mujihadeen
>saddam was already cool but he done fucked up
>from arab nationalism to religious extremism
>arab spring
>>1202171
>Soviet style nationalism
the
what
now?
We fucked the Turks over
Thats what we get
>>1214014
>arab spring
is the arab mirage the biggest mistake that people actually believed to be good in the 21st century?
>>1214309
It is.
I remembered being in college and all the Marxist but also the fairly conservative kids being insanely optimistic about it.
Me being Arab myself, I was mostly afraid of what it would unleash. But everyone I talked to was extremely naive and thought the "good guys" would be able to take this revolt into a utopic direction.
