>fedoras who unironically believe Postmodernism is a bad thing
>wahhh why must you try to look at concepts with all their complexities wahhhh
You people are the modern equivalent of the stuck-up religious people who refused to believe science over The Bible's every word. Yeah, the Earth's round.
yeah i don't get it. also they think postmodernism is leftism
>>1199520
this, most people who are against postmodernism have no clue what it's about.
>>1199530
>>1199532
Why is there this phenomenon of fedoras in our generation? By this, in this case, I men men in their twenties who follow Carl Sagan on Twitter, refuse to listen to anyone else, thinks philosophy ended with Nihilism, STEM-circlejerking, "everything was perfect in the 50s", kind of fedoras.
Is it a direct offset to Postmodernism?
>>1199560
it's always been that way, the internet just gives them a voice and wikipedia articles to read.
>>1199532
>you just don't get it, shitlord
>>1199575
*tips*
>>1199575
it's true though
>>1199520
my problem with it is that proponents of it often misinterpret post modernism or use it opportunistically/selectively
>psueds who think postfedoraism is a good basis for understanding the world
>>1199582
I don't even know where to begin with this post
>>1199590
Maybe with Derrida. Just sayin'.
art deco, japanese minimal, and anything futurism is the best
>>1199590
he is completely correct though
This is particularly true about architecture
I think postmodernism is fine, like looking at a painting which the artist never entirely felt was finished. Of course, in any work of art one could keep fucking around with it, a dab here, a streak there, but sometime at some point you need to leave it the fuck alone and call it done. Until we move along to the next image in the gallery, this one has plenty to appreciate and is actually quite attractive for its flaws.
Why can't postmodernist define it?
>>1199562
This. It's just teens being teens. Before fedoras, there was emo kids, people would dye their hair black and listen to Linking Park. And before that there was goths. And so on and so on. Youth sub culture is a pretty fascinating subject.
>>1200733
But fedoras are mostly adult men. Men up to their thirties.
>>1200733
This is how you understand things, huh. When I was a high school idiot, in the late 80s, we had goths, emos (we called them corn chips, I have no fucking clue why), and they weren't pseudo-intellectual, ass-hat fedora fucks. We had real nerds with pocket protectors and calculators, and no internet to hide behind like some reject clown shoes, mentally masturbating fuckwad batman.
Also, Linkin Park is fucking amazing. Recognize.
![postmodernism_foot_on_neck[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/kmzR6bF.gif "postmodernism_foot_on_neck[1].gif")
>>1199520
Postmodernism is the bullshit philosophical version of Stephen Colbert's concept of truthiness. Even if something is complete bullshit, it might have a feeling like it's legit - and it must be treated as such.
Postmodernism is what is leading to many today believing that some of the greatest ideas of Western philosophy, literature and governance are nothing more than the ideas of some "dead white men" which should be ignored. Human rights? No such thing. Secularism? Social construct. Democracy? lel whatever.
Postmodernism is just a shitty product of French intellectual culture, who constantly try to one-up each other on who can be edgier in their circlejerks.
>>1199530
That's because it is. Thanks to undergraduate tumblr feminists who don't understand what they've read or claim to have read, postmodernism has become a complete fucking joke.
>>1200724
The guy who invented the world already defined it. It's the rejection of grand meta-narratives. Go look up the word.
You are the one struggling with the meaning of words.
>>1201054
>Also Linkin Park is fucking amazing. Recognize
>>1201150
Does your dick go hard when you put on your fedora in the morning?
>>1201150
>Human rights? No such thing. Secularism? Social construct. Democracy? lel whatever.
>Neoreactionaries and altrighters got cucked by postmodernism
Bravo Land, Bravo Moldbug.
Things feel complex until they start to feel simple. That's how she do.
>>1201219
>Human rights
>Secularism
>Democracy
>Neoreactionary and altright
>>1199520
I dislike postmodern art because it rejects any notion of standards and thus becomes retards writhing about in filth. I haven't given much thought to the philosophy behind postmodernism.
>>1201297
Yes, they think those ideas should be ignored.
>>1201304
>rejects any notion of standards and thus becomes retards writhing about in filth
thats because its all a matter of perspective, anon :^)
le nothing matters xD
am I being edgy enough yet?
As a French, I would argue that there are some valid reasons to dislike postmodernism. The tendancy of the postmoderns to forge their own vocabulary and concept did lead to the glorification of pure gibberish in some cases, the most pathetic one being Lacan.
Postmodernism is where communists found refuge once they couldn't defend the Soviet Union anymore.
>>1201182
*insert unfalsifiable trash here*
At last I truly see
>>1201330
>if you don't swallow commie gobbledegook like a champ you're a fedora-tipping child :) :)
ngl I am actually slightly triggered
>>1201325
To extend on that, a lot of people find the highly abstract work of the postmoderns to be of very little practical value, contrary to other philosphical schools which can assist in the pursuit of truth, morality or in the accomplishment of political objectives.
>>1201219
It's all a matter of context.
During the 60s, the "Establishment" was still mildly conservative, there were still representants of the "old order" in the cultural reproduction apparatuses such as the media and the academia. Enoch Powell for example, was a respected academic, and even a stormweenie like Revilo Oliver could teach at a university.
In this context, the whole "criticism of grandnarratives" of postmodernism was in the interest of a left that didn't held central power but aspired to it, it was about discrediting the "old order", saying that their accomplishments were meaningless etc.
Nowadays this changed. The generation of 68 is in power in all Western countries, so they do not have time to this bullshit. See how the discourse changed from "rejection of grand metanarratives" to "lol you don't want to be on the wrong side of history, do you?"
It was all about power and only about power. That's why, even if the ideas of Foucault or Baudrillard can be useful to neoreactionaries, they do not care much about it and instead they focus on Bertrand de Jouvenel who was more concerned about Power itself instead of bullshit intellectuals used to justify seizing it.
>>1201314
Fortunately that sort of bullshit seems to be on the way out, what with the contemporary revival of Classical Realism and the Kitsch Movement.
>>1201381
sorry to interrupt your session of sitting around going 'lol tippy xdXdX lolo tippytippy!' I'll get out and let the adults discuss this in peace now ok
>>1201381
CULTURAL MARXISM!!!!!!!!
You know, Nihilism, as in the sense that it is right about the nature of reality, has not been rebuked yet
Here we have it again, either you like it or you don't, there's no middle way... Typical autism.
That having said, what is branded postmodern philosophy is usually unreadable. It would suit them to make their ideas at least readable.
>>1201398
Show me a non-left postmodernist. Its their safe space.
>>1201468
Peter Sloterdijk? Slavoj Zizek's secret lover?
>>1201463
Maybe you're just not intellectual enough, have you considered that?
>>1201015
There's 50 years old goths. Edgy teens grow up.
>>1201523
beat me to it
>>1201523
Yeah, Postmodernism is all a scam. You figured it out, anon.
>>1201495
That's possible.
>>1200733
All those things you mentioned are a product of postmodernism though.
>>1201557
>Darrida caused linkin park
Knew it.
>>1201523
Yeah I knew about that. There's also a book called "fashionable nonsense". I want to give postmodernism the benefit of the doubt but they make it really hard by using such a cryptic method of writing
The concept of hyperrealism is interesting but I could hardly understand the book in which it was presented, I can only understand it through plato.edu
>>1201557
You really have no idea what Postmodernism even is. I mean fuck, have you even done a basic googling?
>>1201495
Intellectuals are always wrong. They supported the Bolsheviks, the Maoists, the Khmer Rouge, the Bolivarian Revolution, any regime supported by intellectuals end in disaster.
I know don't how they can manage to be so prestigious even after these major fuck-ups.
>>1201593
Intellectuals are not a monolithic group you turd, of course retards existed, and still do, that supported idiocracies. But that is not to say that all do.
>>1201574
I never understood quite why I hated Derrida so much. At last, I truly see.
>>1201593
>"intellectuals" are one, cohesive group
>people like Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell don't count as intellectuals
Purge yourself
>>1201054
>Also, Linkin Park is fucking amazing. Recognize.
You come out with a turbopleb opinion like this and expect us to tke you seriously. You're like 40 years old, Linkin park is child's music
>>1201617
>people like Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell don't count as intellectuals
Try to cite Thomas Sowell in an academic paper.
You will be laughed off out of college.
>>1201642
I'm sure you've written plenty of academic papers, and had problems trying to cite Harvard educated economists in them, fudge packer.
>>1201642
>>Thomas Sowell a nobel prize winning economist cannot be cited in a college paper without the person doing the citing being laughed at.
What the fuck has happened to the college system?
>>1201650
Communists took over in the 1960s.
>>1201652
Which is why the US went from Keynesian economics to monetarist economics in the 80s, amirite?
>>1201657
The objective of monetarism is to deepen the contradictions of capitalism so that revolution becomes possible again.
Milton Friedman was a communist.
>>1201666
>Satan arguing against Reaganomics
I don't know who to side with.
>>1201666
>Milton Friedman was a communist.
4chan.org
>>1199560
>Following Carl Sagan, a dead man, on Twitter
You probably meant Neil DeGrasse Tyson (le black science man) but I still agree with your points. There are some real poser fedoras who think they're a lot smarter than they really are and circlejerk the concepts you mentioned.
>>1199560
Wouldn't this be the birth child of new Atheism?
this thread is awful
in less than a year, and /his/ is already complete shit
good job everyone
>>1201719
I've been here since the beginning, and this is about the quality it started with.
That is, shit.
In Spain we refer to SJW's and transshit ppl as postmodern retards. So strange.
What is the actual definition of postmodernism?
>>1201719
It was shit in the first hour of the first day and I know that for a fact because I was there. Get off your high horse.
>>1201719
So what is your contribution to make this thread better quality? Just ignore the shit and post in the worthwhile topics. If that doesn't work, I don't know what will.
>>1201731
>What is the actual definition of postmodernism?
after modernism
>>1201747
And what does that mean smartass?
>>1201753
I'm not her, but do you know how to Google?
>>1201757
Wikipedia's definition is bullshit. I want to know what you guys think of postmodernism. I mean, some of you have strong opinions about it so I thought it would be easy for you to answer what postmodernism is.
>>1201753
Modernism
>My ideology will lead to utopia
Post-modernism
>ideology is trash
>>1201767
And what is an ideology? A political ideology or just statementes about the world? Like, socialism and capitalism or freedom of speech and equality?
Sorry if I sound too impertinent, I'm not baiting, I'm honestly curious about this, I think in Spain we have a very distorted vision of the concept of postmodernism
>>1201773
Postmodernism (the philosophy) is just an umbrella term for certain philosophers and ideas, ideas that almost all seem to be written in cryptic and verbose language
>>1201764
It depends on the field. Postmodern literature doesn't have the same basic principles as postmodern architecture etc.
>>1201757
>her
how do you know?
>>1201773
>And what is an ideology?
Ideology isn't the best way to put it, "meta-narrative" is what the po-mos themselves say. Basically that there is some grand story behind all events.
>Like, socialism and capitalism or freedom of speech and equality?
All of the above, in a way. The socialist idea that all history is the history of class struggles is a meta-narrative, as is the idea that all people are equal, as is the nazi idea of Aryans rising above the animals and the eternal jew, etc, etc. All of the modernist movements of the 20th century were guilty of this kind of thinking and post-modernism is basically about looking backwards and seeing how they fucked up and learning from it. At least ideally that's what it should be. It's been twisted by people as has every group
>>1201719
Eh the quality varies, but the subject matter of the board is a wasp nest and mods treat this board as any other board rather than recognizing that special measures might be needed, letting it become a warzone
>You people are the modern equivalent of the stuck-up religious people who refused to believe science over The Bible's every word. Yeah, the Earth's round
It's actually exactly the opposite. People are tired of postmodernism, thus it's waining. This happens with every artform, and it will happen with postmodernism as well. You're the church, clinging to the past.
>>1201959
>artform
>>1201983
I'm not english. But you know what i meant.
>>1201992
No, I pointing out how you think this thread is about the postmodernist art movement.
We're talking about postmodernist philosophy here.
>>1202009
but there are other people talking about art itt
![frenchman[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jSDbk3K.jpg "frenchman[1].jpg")
>>1201322
>Postmodernism is lazy nihilism.
>postmodernism vs nihilism
>france vs germany
seems appropriate somehow
>>1201359
>the Kitsch Movement.
That's for hipsters, always was.
>look how tacky I am
>so quirky
>>1201650
>nobel prize means anything
Give me a break.
And Thomas Sowell is shit btw.
>>1201593
>I don't understand the subtle and complex nature of the work that intellectuals do
>>1202009
The OP was clearly referencing architecture
>>1202348
The person you're quoting, me, is the OP.
>concepts with all their complexities
You thought this could be about architecture?
>>1202024
So was indie rock, and look how that turned out.
Also, the Kitsch Movement is separate from kitsch when used independently. They're not making cheap pottery in the shape of gingerbread houses, in this context Kitsch as defined as the opposite of the avant-garde, which was its original meaning.
>>1199560
Carl Sagan was usually opposite of fedoras; he was a modernist who was always in favor of scientific advancement over personal gain. He also grew to prominence through astronomical research and lecturing as a professor at Harvard and Cornell university (besides Cosmos which made him famous).
>>1199520
In postmodern parlance, OP, you should really use the word "contemporary" instead of "modern." Just saying.
>>1199520
>You people are the modern equivalent of the stuck-up religious people who refused to believe science over The Bible's every word. Yeah, the Earth's round.
This is really ironic considering postmodernism rejects the objectivity of scientific knowledge, thus calling into question all scientific discovery.
How come postmodernism is ALWAYS used to tear down whatever ideology you don't like and institute your own.
>>1202397
Or maybe it's just that Postmodernism tears down your ideology of choice, and you're butthurt about it.
Maybe that's it, Anon.
>>1202403
At what point does postmodernsim itself become an ideology?
>>1202381
English isn't my first language, in my mother language the two translate into the same word. What's the difference in English?
>>1202411
At no point.
>>1202412
"Modern" refers to the 1940s-1970s or 80s.
"Contemporary" refers to everything after the end of "modern" up to the point in time which we currently inhabit.
>>1202357
Not that guy, but I thought it was about architecture. I was going to say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking Postmodern architecture, but then I realized this thread had nothing to do architecture
>>1201650
JFC, anon. Why are you accepting this idea as some kind of fact? You can *cite* basically anything in a college paper. A citation is a reference to another text or document. You will not get "laughed out of college" for citing Sowell. You may encounter criticism if you take a stance that reifies him, or claim that his supply-side solution is a viable means of solving a complex problem like economics, but nobody is going to chase you out of the halls. These people are living in imaginary worlds, and are mistaking challenges to their myopic worldview as being "laughed at." Jesus. Fuck. Jesusfuck.
>>1199520
Modernism believes in progress, technicality and the future.
Postmodernism does not.
So I stay modernist.
Be all "Oh, progress is bad" in your fair trade strawhut, postmodern faggot.
While I will enjoy my spaceship once it is there
>>1202421
Interesting, so it's like the modern in "modern art", referring to a certain time era and not just the time of the present.
I see!
>>1202417
You been on a college campus recently?
>>1202432
Yes. Please climb into your spaceship and tool around the uncaring void of a universe until you recognize, like postmodernism has, that the notion of "progress" is a social construct. Sheesh.
>>1202435
What you're seeing is the inevitable confusion happening at the change of a new paradigm, not an ideology.
>>1202447
>>1202440
>that the notion of "progress" is a social construct
>"progress" is a social construct
>"progress" ain't inherently real
>Higher life expectancy, lower childhood death rates, higher literacy, eradicated illnesses, economic growth, technical progress are not objectively superior over their opposites.
Kill yourself please.
After all by your logic the value of life might just be another "social construct".
>>1202357
>The person you're quoting, me, is the OP.
oops lad
>You thought this could be about architecture?
yup. plenty of complexity in architecture
>>1202456
...What
>>1202464
Why do whig history fags get so butthurt when you question their bullshit?
>>1202464
>After all by your logic the value of life might just be another "social construct".
Not him but yes.
>>Higher life expectancy, lower childhood death rates, higher literacy, eradicated illnesses, economic growth, technical progress are not objectively superior over their opposites.
Again, yes. This is very much debatable.
Not even just morally, higher life expectancy for example is very much a debatable question in economics.
>>1202464
Yeah, what happens when your "progress" ends up in North Korea or Eritrea?
>>1201468
Zizek said the Giovanni Gentile (the intellectual founder of Italian fascism) was the first post-modernist
>>1199520
I thought fedoras liked postmodernism
>>1199520
It's a meme
>>1201309
>postmodernism can't be retarded because the alt right took ideas from them
What if they're both retarded?
>>1201764
>postmodernism is typically defined by an attitude of skepticism or distrust toward grand narratives, ideologies, and various tenets of Enlightenment rationality, including the existence of objective reality and absolute truth, as well as notions of rationality, human nature, and progress.
Wikepedia's definition is just fine, if you're too dumb to understand it then you should really get the fuck off /his/.
Postmodernism is just the perfection of secularism.
>>1201624
If your appreciation for the emotional side of art is dictated by what is "oh so grown up" and "self-fart-inhaling serious", maybe you have your wires crossed. Have a little more fun with life, instead of wantonly expressing what you think is somehow expected of you.
>>1203485
Hi there!
You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!
Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!
