Did China experience more Habbenings than any other country in the world throughout history? Who else can come close?
-Uprising of the Five Barbarians
-An Lushan Rebellion: 13,000,000–36,000,000
-Qing Conquest of Ming: 25,000,000
-Second Sino-Japanese War: 25,000,000
-Taiping Rebellion: 20,000,000–100,000,000
-Three Kingdoms War: 36,000,000–40,000,000
-Dungan Revolt: 8,000,000–20,770,000
-Great Leap Forward: 45 million
-4 of the top 5 biggest natural disasters by death toll in history
-Wanggongchang Explosion
>>1141999
The scale of deaths during their habbenings is unimaginable.
>>1141999
>An Lushan Rebellion
It still amazes me how chinks managed to kill each other with a death toll bigger than WW1's
...In the 8th century.
Rice is a helluva staple crop.
>>1141999
>Something happens
>MILLIONS die
How the hell did they manage to keep such a high population considering they are killing eachother in the MILLIONS before we even hit the 10th century,that many causalities is pretty insane at the time.
>>1142271
Small but highly efficient penis
>>1142271
Rice
>>1142188
These numbers have been proven as bullshit long ago.
It was a bloody revolt, sure, but nowhere near as deadly as claimed. It was just that the highly effective imperial administration vanished during that time, so the census could only count the cities under direct government control. Somehow, 'being unaccounted for' translated to 'might as well be dead' and then to 'was actually dead'.
Similar thing with the Three Kingdoms period or the Wuhuan Uprising and other eras were a highly centralized authority ceased to exist over night and a proper census couldnt be done anymore.
>>1141999
>Taiping Rebellion
why does no one ever talk about this? this shit makes the American Civil War look like a popgun fight
>>1141999
If you count China as one country in history then you have to count all of Europe as one country as well. Also India.
>>1142585
Thats bullshit and you know it.
China is a big country
>>1141999
what irks me is why are so many people in both chinese and japanese historical depictions represented as phenotypes that cant be recognised in average chinese or japs today
i know a lot of them are other ethnicities but even so it leaves a bunch of people that look way more rugged and with more developed fatial features, almost like caricatures
is that just it, is just caricatural stile?
>>1142660
An Lushan was white.
Also, Genghis Khan had red hair.
>>1142600
Why is it bullshit? The Ottoman Empire claimed to be a continuation of Rome, but was it?
>>1142786
>China
>Large country ruled over by one emperor during times of peace
>Europe
>Continent with many different countries/ independent people's all throughout history
>>1142456
10/10
>>1142814
>during times of peace
What about during habbenings? Also, is Tibet included in Chinese history?
>>1141999
half of these are poo desu
>>1142833
tl;dr country=\= continent
>>1142849
How so?
>>1141999
I doubt there were that many casualties during the Late-Han civil war and subsequent three kingdoms.
There certainly were a lot, not to mention other deaths from famine and displacement. However, I've noticed a lot of historians taking census records from the Han and census records from the Jin at face value. In reality, a lot of the missing population was probably due to a decrease in government control and its ability to register people. Some had likely fallen under the control of large private landowners or fortress chieftains who were outside of the purview of the central government. I wouldn't be surprised if more people died from the subsequent period when Xiongnu, Jie, Xianbei and other groups took power in the North and sacked Luoyang and Chang'an (granted both cities also suffered immense depredation during the Late-Han civil war). That was an exceptionally violent and unstable period. Actually, is this the "uprising of the five barbarians" in the OP referring to this?
>>1142583
Plenty of people talk about it.
>>1141999
As much as the Yellow River is a boon to the chinese, that river has probably been responsible for millions of deaths.
Everytime that river floods is a cataclysmic event
>>1143914
Western Jin population was anywhere from 23-45 million if revised census estimates are to be trusted.
Jin nobles were embroiled in civil wars that led to Han rechauvinism by an ethnic Xiongnu.
The fall of the Western Jin is the equivalent of "WE WUZ" for some southern Sinitics.
>>1144020
yeah the war of eight princes was pretty bad too
>>1142609
>for you
>>1142579
Rice, along with two big ass rivers and a monsoon season, enabled them to have such a big ass population in the first place, thus leading to higher deathtolls.
>>1142585
>Europe
The meme pan european empire split into two and the western half collapsed, replaced by kings n shiet
>India
Same with Western Europe following the fall of Guptas.
Not really China's case. After then the Qin-Han Period, China proper is pretty much established. Times of division = civil wars in China. There's a reason why Chink Dynasties can't exist side by side: they're after the Mandate of Heaven and there can only be one set of family names that can claim it.
>>1142571
>Chinese history has a pattern of highly centralised government authorities disappearing overnight with massive body counts
hmm...
>>1144233
Shit, does that mean the CCP is one day just going to randomly go belly-up? Fucking Christ I don't want to see what a China Habbening with nukes would look like.
>>1144233
Well China never had a government THIS centralized before. You could do only so much with premodern communications/transpo tech.
>>1144264
Personally, I would love to experience a global nuclear holocaust.
Always makes my laugh/cry when i see the peaceful asia meme or that map with battles on it an europe is entirely covered and china only has a relatively few dots on it. China literally wouldnt even record battles the size of most of the ones happening in europe. Literally having napoleonic era numbers in antiquity.
I'm assuming that a lot of these deaths result from disease and famine more than actual combat...
>>1144439
The peaceful asia meme is sort of true because it usually refers to international Asian fighting.
When you literally can count on a single pair of hands all the wars between China, Korea, and Japan.
>>1142226
>>1142494
>>1142579
Except for the fact that rice is not traditionally eaten in the Northern Plains of China where most of this shit went down.
It's CURRENT YEAR and you guys are still falling for the "Chinese people only eat rice" meme. Not all Chinese people are like your local immigrants from Hong Kong.
>>1146057
Except the Southern Expansion was vital to the population explotion of China because of:
1) Rice.
2) It never freezes over like the North.
>>1142833
Its part of China's recent history, probably around Qing era history. I don't know if the chinks actually teach this in their history class or not though. In the chink's view, Tibet has ALWAYS been part of China.
>>1144264
Probably.
>>1141999
An Lushan is really one of those figures where the meme "What was his problem," really applies.
>>1141999
But what about the %?
Where do I start with my China histories? Any books you would recommend?
>>1147733
How close was he to conquering all of China anyway?
Has there ever been a mayor chinese conflict that does not end in a million of deaths?
>>1142571
I don't think its fair to say that the Han empire disappeared overnight when there was a long decay in power & quality of life by the end of them.
That's why shit like Yellow Turban Rebellion happened.
Also i think its crazy to say the Qing empire wasn't having a long and painful meltdown.
>>1144270
that just means it will fall harder than anything else in Chinese history
>>1148656
That is a scary fucking thought... but I'd love to witness it happen. Not because I hate China, but because I'm just a massive whore for happenings, wherever they happen.
>>1144264
>>1148795
>Shit, does that mean the CCP is one day just going to randomly go belly-up?
>That is a scary fucking thought... but I'd love to witness it happen.
It already is. The Chinese market has been attempting to correct its over inflated self for a long time, but the CCP continues to try everything in its power to stop it. They've been able to delay for a long time now, but the market will eventually correct, and its going to bite the CCP hard in the ass. I don't think we'll see wholesale collapse, but the government is going to be changed.
>>1147733
Yeah what a douche. Hou Jing too. Bastards who ruined great things.
>>1148468
He was assassinated in the middle of doing so. By his son.
So far he took much of the Northwest with him when he rebelled, and used his contacts among the "barbarians" in bolstering his army.
>>1147693
Except Tibet was part of the Chinese empires off and on since Han times.
It was always a tributary state.
Han settlers 2000-present have made it majority Han now... Kind of sad, but hey it happened in America as well.
>>1148656
The
>history repeats itself
meme is the one thing /his/ should try to beat out of newfags' heads.
>>1149495
You realize that you're spouting a meme repeatedly said since 1990?
>broken clock
>>1149607
Nah. Tibet was a Chinese bitch come the Song Dynasty.
From Han to T'ang it was China's vicious Western neighbor. Unfortunately Buddhist Monasteries cucked the secular government and led to its demise.
>>1149622
The Han empire conquered it a few times. Never was it colonized though so when unrest came to the capital, Tibet entered a semi-autonomous state again.
It was always a tributary state.
Under Song, part of Ming, and all of Qing, it was part of China.
That's why to this day it is officially recognized as being a Chinese autonomous province.
Meanwhile it is 54% Han now. PRC won't make the mistake of the Empires.
>>1142571
>late Han Bureaucracy
>highly effective
The real answer is that when you have an extremely prosperous commercial system, it allows a larger population than would otherwise be possible.
When you move the capital and its millions of residents thousands of miles westward, away from its traditional supply networks, while simultaneously causing a collapse in demand in the region left, even the emperor starves. And all the regions with populations over carrying capacity must suffer once trade shuts down.
>>1149595
>Centralized government didn't fall apart then.
That was then. This is now.
>>1142771
Persian historian Rashid al-Din recorded in his "Chronicles" that the legendary "glittering" ancestor of Genghis was tall, long-bearded, red-haired, and green-eyed. Rashid al-Din also described the first meeting of Genghis and Kublai Khan, when Genghis was shocked to find that Kublai had not inherited his red hair.[8] Also according to al-Din Genghis's Borjigid clan, had a legend involving their origins: it began as the result of an affair between Alan-ko and a stranger to her land, a glittering man who happened to have red hair and bluish-green eyes. Modern historian Paul Ratchnevsky has suggested in his Genghis biography that the "glittering man" may have been from the Kyrgyz people, who historically displayed these same characteristics.
>>1149595
I mean it wasn't for lack of effort in 1989
also killing or otherwise eliminating everyone that could post a threat to your reign tends to artificially extend it a little
>>1149885
>kyrgyzstan literally wuz genghis
>>1149613
Except in the case of China history literally does repeat itself, and on top of that their religious-mystical conception of reality is predicated on a cyclical view of history.
>>1141999
Chinese history is fucking insane, and trees like poor fantasy literature
The weirdest part is how the massive civil wars, huge death tolls, improbable invasions, and rapid changes didn't end until our parents' lifetime
>>1150041
not even until my parents' lifetime
t. son of a refugee
>>1150052
What are you talking about, they all love the PRC.
One China, right?
>>1150052
Who gives a fuck about Tibetans, I feel sorry for the Huigars.
>>1150052
I'm sure they'll be thrilled to find out that they were actually a part of China for the past 2000 years.
>>1149595
>>1149617
>Nice meme
And yet several Chinese stock indecies have yet to register real growth since 2010 and continue to slowly slide in value. Growth is factually slowing, and the government is continuing to print unthinkable amounts of money in order to continue to prop up their slowing manufacturing and export sectors.
>>1152419
Tibet being under Chinese suzerainity isn't jingoism it's historical fact.
>The Tibetan Empire emerged in the 7th century, but with the fall of the empire the region soon divided into a variety of territories. The bulk of western and central Tibet (Ü-Tsang) was often at least nominally unified under a series of Tibetan governments in Lhasa, Shigatse, or nearby locations; these governments were at various times under Mongol and Chinese overlordship.
It was, however, formally included in the Chinese state by the Qingz in the 18th Century following the defeat of invading Gurkhas from Nepal.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Nepalese_War
>>1152419
You seem to be arguing against a de-jure argument, purely because it offends your sensibilities. Is it megalomania to claim a territory your nation controls de-facto? You're the kinda guy who gives away the Panama canal for peanuts.
>>1142583
>Makes American Civil War look like a popgun fight
>You're on the wrong board.
>>1152419
>Do most Chinese kids these days have megalomania?
I love talking to indoctrinated Chinese students, it makes me think of how Japan was in the 30's. I wonder how Chinese people would feel if they realized that they're basically Japan 2.0 in terms of global ambitions.
>>1152587
Such is life in Vancouver.
>>1152587
>Indoctrinated Chinese students.
How I know you're making shit up 101. Most Chink students are utter normies or rich kids who do not give a shit about history. The "Indoctrinated Communist Red Guard" died with the 60's.
Besides, the reason red chinks would give for Tibet would be "It was a part of China" and "it needed liberation from its theocratic tyrants." Basically they'd give recent history as justification, not Imperial history since they weren't taught that.
If ever, it's the Nationalist Chinese who know their premodern history. And their ambitions are even worse from a non-chink standpoint since they want to follow the old Qing Borders to specification and reclaim Mongolia as well. So no this is not just a "PRC indoctrination" thing.
>>1152623
Chinese nationalism is bigger than ever right now.
>>1144057
Was it a part of your plan to get opium addicted?
>>1149885
snowniggers fuck everything up, again.
>>1152642
And it's highly unofficial. Taiwan- despite the weirdo independence thing going on- is still it's main bastion. While in PRC, the nationalist bent on history is super fucking recent for accusations of HURR INDOCTRINATION to be valid.
I mean, hell just in the early 70's, China was hell bent in depicting it's imperial past as something second rate to grorious communism. Not to mention the shitloads of rebellions in Chinese history make Imperial history a very dangerous subject to teach even in today's mood of nationalism.
>>1152717
The PRC Chinese nationalism is akin to Japanese nationalism in the Showa era, a massive revision of history to fit contemporary politics.
The 70's also aren't a good time to judge the contemporary CCP by because the CCP has transformed immensely since then. Communism doesn't even register in the minds of the modern CCP, for whom Chinese nationalism - or Han chauvinism rather - is the driving ideology.
>>1152744
>The 70's also aren't a good time to judge the contemporary CCP by because the CCP has transformed immensely since then.
It is, wanna know why?
Because for claims of indoctrination/editing to work: the leadership has to know Chink history.
Whose formal archaeology/historiography just fucking began when China opened up.
So the leadership that spent DECADES disregarding Imperial Chinese history suddenly had it neatly edited? Come on.
>>1152744
>Han Chauvinism
PRC wouldn't have minorities if this was state ideology.
>>1152761
Not for lack of trying on the part of China
>>1152466
This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect. Tibet has only officially been part of "we wuz Qingz n shet". After the fall of qingz, they were defacto independent, they've been trying to get out of qings' reach for a while. With no effective Chinese government to enforce the Qing's empire, Tibet was free for ~30-40 years. However the PRC came and took over Qing's mandate and tried to take all the states that broke off back into the fold. It succeeded in most part, with exception of outer Mongolia, which the Soviets helped break off.
>>1152777
>This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect.
Except you're talking to the wrong anon.
I'm not saying its a part of China for a long time. I'm saying it was a suzerain of it ever since the Lamas JUSTed the Tibetan Empire into a weak collection of theocratic states.
>>1152767
How is Han Chauvinism supported by the state?
The PRC anachronistically applies the concept of Zhonghua Minzu to claim random polities were historically Chinese even when they weren't(Goguryeo,Yelang etc.).
Tibetans are China's Injuns. Just like 19th century America, there is no one else geographically situated to take advantage of the region; china is the default suzerain.
>>1152924
Tibet-Mongol had priest-patron relations.
India-Tibet could very well take the same role.
>>1152924
>there is no one else geographically situated to take advantage of the regio
Not really.
For one thing, there *was* a Tibetan State. The Empire.
Also, when it collapsed Tibet was contested by China & whoever was the big boy in Central Asia. Mongols famously.
Gurkhas in Nepal made a bid for overlordship of the Himalayas but were defeated.
Ignore the picture, I have no image for Tibet in my laptop.
>>1152941
These failed attempts at challenge are analogous to Mexico's failures. Thus the analogy holds.
>>1152951
Still wasn't alone. For the longest time, China's suzerainity was among Eastern Tibetans, while Nomadpeeps had the Northwest. This state of affairs was only ended by the Qings when it removed Mongolia from the picture.
>>1152985
Yes and fifty four forty or fight was the cry until the Brits folded.
>>1152717
>And it's highly unofficial.
Implying the CCP isn't promoting it and exploiting it. Even if it was "unofficial" that's irrelevant because it's still widespread and ubiquitous as fuck, including to overseas Chinese.
>>1152777
>This is true, but saying its been part of China since Han times is historically incorrect.
Mostly because Tibet as an entity didn't even exist until Tang.
>>1153200
They may not as an empire, but as a tribe as a people, they most likely existed.
They'd probably be generic nomadic stepe people
>>1152941
>For one thing, there *was* a Tibetan State. The Empire.
And there were dozens of Amerind nations.
>be peasant farmer in the hinterlands near Xuchang
>be part of mass conscription to subjugate the rebels of Dongwu
>sailing down the Yangtze in Chancellor Cao Cao's armada
>这不是我 starts playing
Why did Chinese people stop making chu-ko-nu's? Chinese people should never have stopped making chu-ko-nu's.
>>1149495
>>1151697
>And yet several Chinese stock indecies have yet to register real growth since 2010.
t. liberal memeking
I guess we'll just look the other way on the 10 years priorto that, then?
It's indices, by the way. Not indecies.
Yes, China's growth is factually slowing as of 2010. So Instead of posting completely unrealistic GDP margins like 7% (as they did for some time), they're closer to 5 or 4, which is on-par with the rest of the developed world.
>>1154791
Highly conservative administration/technocrats/military prefer established methods over innovation. Same reason firepowder never got off big like in europe.
>>1149885
>getting kyrgy-cucked
Seriously though pre-modern Siberian/Turkic peoples are 10/10 fascinating.
>>1154748
>>1154748
>这不是我
I just looked that up and it's a song by that skinny homo Aaron Yan. Are you referring to another version? Link it homie.
>>1155781
Ah, there's my aneurysm for the day. Now where are my peasant hordes and repeating crossbows?
>>1154791
meme weapon desu
>>1157033
>He doesn't like chu-ko-nus
Are you gay or something?
