Why were socialist ideas so strong with german navy? I was under impression army was mostly conservative.
The officers were in fact conservative, but lower-rank soldiers were not.
why were socialist ideas welcomed by the lower classes? i don't know it's a mystery
>>1066077
Socialism is a system where upper middle class intellectuals exploit the lower class into bloody revolution to put then in power, then massacre and oppress said lower class. Happened every time. Wish I could say there was an exception. I really do.
>>1066071
This. When you have total war, the army basically looks like a cross section of male society.
>>1066060
Wild guess here, but maybe a ship resembles a factory, thus making it fertile ground for such ideas.
>>1066071
There was some anticommunist sentiment though, freikorps weren't some officer club and I don't know of anything on the scale of Kiel Rebelion happening anywhere else.
>>1066109
What the fuck
>>1066112
You have a bunch of people working every day in a small, enclosed space (compare that to army or air force), much like a factory, and it was usually factories, and not farms or small shops and workshops that provided the ground for the spread of socialist and syndicalist ideas.
>>1066060
Conditions in the navy were hellish for regular Matrosen.
It's not just the German navy, it's the same reason why Russian revolution was spearheaded by sailors at Kronstadt.
>>1066100
Curious thing being: in democracies you don't need to organize revolutions in order to gain power (and responsabilities). In democracies you just have to show merit.
>>1066077
>why were socialist ideas welcomed by the lower classes?
All around the world the masses have always been against socialism though.
>>1066159
ahahahahahahahahahahahah
>>1066173
>if it isn't perfect, it isn't real
How's being unable to understand subtle concepts, autist?
>>1066173
Nice refutation mate
>>1066166
The masses follow leaders by definition.
>>1066100
>I could say there was an exception. I really do.
Ex-Yugo here. Oh boy I sure am lucky that I was born in this neoliberal paradise of today, and not during the exploitatory days of the commies.
>>1066060
Navy tends to be somewhat to the left politically, generally speaking. That was the case in Russia/USSR (Kronstaft), in Chile (1931 mutiny), in Canada (1949) and even in Israel (1951). It probably has some deep-rooted social and cultural causes. Interesting stuff.
>>1066060
Were there ever left wing officers in a non communist country? Weren't officers always anticommunist where communists didn't seize power and put party members in charge of forming officers?
>>1066197
The Balkans were always shit, Yugoslavia was only tolerable because you were leeching off of loans from western banks.
>>1066229
Reinhard Heydrich :-)
>>1066234
We're leeching loans today as well, and yet we're living significantly worse.
>>1066262
Is your debt going through the roof like back then?
>>1066159
In democracies you have to gain the support of oligarchs as their puppet. Oligarchs are the funders of "revolutions", why would they want to overthrow themselves?
>>1066227
I just looked up about that Chilean mutiny and it was done by enlisted men.
>>1066379
Of course, otherwise it wouldn't have been a mutiny.
>>1066393
A mutiny is rebellion against authority, it can be done by officers or enlisted men.
>>1066437
I thought you meant enlisted man as in soldiers as opposed to citizens. What's your point then?
>>1066441
My point is that it's reductionist to say it was a Navy mutiny, since officers weren't involved in it. Officers are not left wing.
>>1066262
Serb detected.
>>1066366
False. A political system in which oligarchs rule is called an oligarchy, not a democracy.
>>1066543
Aren't most navy mutinies include disproportional representation of enlisted ranks? I would imagine officers have a less lot to complain about (they also tend to come from well off or aristocratic social classes).
Because the navy is full of homosexuals
>>1066274
Most of the times it's faster, it's a common phenomena in ex-communist countries that they're going into worse and worse debt after dropping it.
>>1066229
In many Third World countries nationalist officers turned to communism (or were sympathetic towards it) because they saw it as a quick way to industrialize their countries. See the Derg in Ethiopia and Abd al-Karim Qasim in Iraq as examples.
One of the reasons for the 1964 Brazilian coup d'état was that the high command of the Brazilian army feared that pro-communist nationalist officers and, guess what, revolting sailors could ally with the leftist president and Cuban trained guerrillas to proclaim a socialist dictatorship in Brazil. That may seen far-fetched now, but it made sense at the time.
>>1066166
>All around the world the masses have always been against socialism though.
Yeah, that's what caused the pope to create "christian democracy", right?
The masses were at some point incredibly socialist.
>>1066197
>Ex-Yugo here
Who cares what T*rks think?
>>1068919
The idea of social reforms is as native to (certain) christian ideologies as the crucifix.
>>1068936
Yeah but if it was meant to pursue that social reform thing, they would start arguing for it little bit earlier than in 1880's.
>>1068957
They did, read Lamennais.circa 1810.
>>1066060
Because they're fucking fags.
>>1066197
>Ex-Yugo here.
Read: S*rb.
>>1066060
Going to take a guess but i suspect it is right.
To run a ship you need people who have had experience in metal working, electrics, mechanics ect most of those skills come from factory workers.
>>1066197
Aren't Croatia and Slovenia doing rather good these days?
